Ander Herrera is a Manchester United Player!

[gooDevil]

I'm not sure if Shaw is good enough in attacking sense to play the wingback role in 5-2-1-2 formation.

Van Gaal is playing 3 at the back because of limitations with his Netherlands squad. His preferred system is 4-2-3-1.

With Van Person on top I don't know what will happen with Rooney.

I'm not sure 4231 will bring the best out of us, though, van Gaal may have to worry about our limitations as well.

Who plays in the line of 3? You're forced to push Mata or Rooney out wide where they are less effective. Our wingers have not contributed many goals, I'd rather see Lingard than Young, Valencia or Nani.

I like Januzaj but I'm not sure it's worth playing 4231 to play him on the wing.

 

[Raoul]

So he has zero international caps and has never been called up. I know it's Spain but still what is the reason for it if he actually as good as some people are describing him as?

Well you said it - he plays for Spain. I suspect he will be called up if he moves to a bigger club and a different big league like the Prem.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

It's not such a bad thing TBF. Fernandinho didn't have a cap for Brazil before signing for City and was lights out last season.

A lot of Ander's zero caps has to do with him playing at a relatively smaller club (compared to Barcelona or Madrid), the usual seniority politics (De Bosque's reluctance to move Xavi, Alonso on) and the fact that he's a much more direct player rather than a possession pedant they've based their ethos around. His situation is much like De Gea up until recently who only got his chance as a circumstance of Valdes' injury. With the summer clearout in the Spain NT, Ander has a good chance to be one of the fresher faces with the likes of Koke, Thiago, De Gea. He was part of the generation that won the U-21 Euro with Mata, Thiago, Martinez etc.

In fairness some reporters (Ballague, Hunter) have already alluded to that.

Kinda true, but not completely. Playing at Athletic Club doesn't limit him, it wasn't a problem for the superior Iturraspe and players like Iñigo Martínez and Alberto Moreno have got caps while at smaller clubs too.

The reality is that you can't write him off for not getting into the Spain squad, but you have to accept that it's because of ability, not any other barriers. He has no chance of becoming an important player for Spain - Busquets, Javi Martínez, Thiago, Cesc, Koke, Iniesta is going to be far too difficult for him to get past, and youth players like Óliver Torres and maybe (if he gets past his awful season) Illarramendi will probably overtake him.

Like I said, another Arteta. Good, but not good enough at the very highest level.

 

[Shark]

The truth is somewhere in the middle. We aren't buying a world-class player and thinking that will just be negative for every party involved, but of course he has seen harsh competition for the role. Plenty of midfielders has had the chance to play at least one appearance though, it is customary to bring in most talents to see how they will fit in the team and give them a chance to show themselves in worthless friendlies etc.

So it shows that Herrera is a good player, but he is considered to be at a lower level by Del Bosque than Iturraspe, Isco, Suarez and Garcia. One can argue whether these call-ups are fair and reflects quality or not - but it doesn't matter as it is quite clear that Herrera is a step(Some may argue two.) below world-class.

He is 25 very soon as well so it isn't like he has the future ahead of him either, we shouldn't expect too much from him. He will strengthen our first eleven and that is enough for now, hopefully he can build on the abilities he has and settle well with the other teammates which may get that extra Kagawa-at-Dortmund level out of him.

I fecking hate the term 'world-class'. It's a phrase with no substance at all.

 

[The Neviller]

The truth is somewhere in the middle. We aren't buying a world-class player and thinking that will just be negative for every party involved, but of course he has seen harsh competition for the role. Plenty of midfielders has had the chance to play at least one appearance though, it is customary to bring in most talents to see how they will fit in the team and give them a chance to show themselves in worthless friendlies etc.

So it shows that Herrera is a good player, but he is considered to be at a lower level by Del Bosque than Iturraspe, Isco, Suarez and Garcia. One can argue whether these call-ups are fair and reflects quality or not - but it doesn't matter as it is quite clear that Herrera is a step(Some may argue two.) below world-class.

He is 25 very soon as well so it isn't like he has the future ahead of him either, we shouldn't expect too much from him. He will strengthen our first eleven and that is enough for now, hopefully he can build on the abilities he has and settle well with the other teammates which may get that extra Kagawa-at-Dortmund level out of him.

Yeah. And the midfield in front of him was the best in the world.

 

[The United Irishman]

If we got Schweinsteiger as well this place would explode.

I will explode in my pants..

 

[100]

As people have mentioned, one the other positives from this if it goes through is that the newspapers aren't being told everything. People guessed that they knew nothing recently and they must be right.

It's funny to see Ogden come out and say that he's not sure as if he should know everything.

 

[simonhch]

I'm not sure if Shaw is good enough in attacking sense to play the wingback role in 5-2-1-2 formation.

Van Gaal is playing 3 at the back because of limitations with his Netherlands squad. His preferred system is 4-2-3-1.

With Van Person on top I don't know what will happen with Rooney.

His preferred system is 4-3-3. He's been quoted numerous times saying so.

 

[Becknaldolencia]

It's not a midfield 3 if it includes Mata.

I am afraid Mata doesn't fit Van Gaal system. I see no place for him in the starting eleven if he uses the current Dutch system here.

One positive is that Mata can be key to his direct football philosophy.

I have noticed his teams press other teams only if necessary. Otherwise the players just block the gaps on the field. I did notice it with his Bayern too.

 

[simonhch]

Has people have mentioned, one the other positives from this if it goes through is that the newspapers aren't being told everything. People guessed that they knew nothing recently and they must be right.

It's funny to see Ogden come out and say that he's not sure as if he should know everything.

I like Ogden, he doesn't seem to make anything up. If he doesn't know, he just flat out says "I don't know".

 

[Annahnomoss]

His preferred system is 4-3-3. He's been quoted numerous times saying so.

Yes, but what he refers to as the 4-3-3 is the 4-2-3-1 but he calls it "The 4-3-3 with a forward pointing triangle". So it isn't the flat 4-3-3(he dislikes all flat formations) nor the one with the DM-CM-CM triangle.

 

[100]

I like Ogden, he doesn't seem to make anything up. If he doesn't know, he just flat out says "I don't know".

Yeah he's probably the most reliable/reputable for me, makes it interesting that he knew nothing this time - possibly due to him being in Brazil.

 

[simonhch]

I am afraid Mata doesn't fit Van Gaal system. I see no place for him in the starting eleven if he uses the current Dutch system here.

One positive is that Mata can be key to his direct football philosophy.

I have noticed his teams press other teams only if necessary. Otherwise the players just block the gaps on the field. I did notice it with his Bayern too.

Van Gaal's preferred midfield system is a number 6 (defensive midfielder) a number 8 (box to box midfielder) and a number 10 (creative attacking midfielder). The current dutch system is not his ideal. But even if it was, Mata could easily play the Sneijder role. He's better than him in every way.

I am basing all of this off the numerous interviews he had given on the subject.

@Annahnomoss

 

[Annahnomoss]

I am afraid Mata doesn't fit Van Gaal system. I see no place for him in the starting eleven if he uses the current Dutch system here.

One positive is that Mata can be key to his direct football philosophy.

I have noticed his teams press other teams only if necessary. Otherwise the players just block the gaps on the field. I did notice it with his Bayern too.

The chances of seeing LVG use the same tactics for us as the Dutch NT is nearly zero. Even for the Dutch he wanted them to play 4-2-3-1 until Strootman got injured.

 

[ravi2]

Dare I say the forbidden words and suggest that he might possibly be a decent match to play with Fellaini?

 

[jojojo]

Just on the Spanish NT. The first XI has basically been Busquets, Alonso, Xavi, Iniesta for the past 4 years. Fabregas gets a run out or a sub appearance when they want to "go direct" - or they'll come up with a job for him like false 9. When a new midfielder comes in, he's supposed to be a direct replacement for one of the four starters. Herrera isn't.

The squad is about to go through an overhaul. The question for most Spanish fans isn't whether Xavi and Alonso are going, it's whether players like Fabregas and Cazorla are ditched as well. Certainly they are not seen in Spain as the core of the new team, they're the squad players of the old one and people say they are too old to be squad players.

Herrera may never be the type of midfielder that Del Bosque (or the next manager, if he leaves) wants for Spain - that doesn't actually tell you whether he'll be good for us.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Van Gaal's preferred midfield system is a number 6 (defensive midfielder) a number 8 (box to box midfielder) and a number 10 (creative attacking midfielder). The current dutch system is not his ideal. But even if it was, Mata could easily play the Sneijder role. He's better than him in every way.

I am basing all of this off the numerous interviews he had given on the subject.

@Annahnomoss

I agree, the 4-2-3-1 is the formation most similar to what he describes and wants to use. He preferred the "double pivot" over the DM-CM-CM idea because he doesn't want to rely on players moving out of their positions to create space for others - he prefers if the step forward is available always for them.

 

[Invictus]

Kinda true, but not completely. Playing at Athletic Club doesn't limit him, it wasn't a problem for the superior Iturraspe and players like Iñigo Martínez and Alberto Moreno have got caps while at smaller clubs too.

The reality is that you can't write him off for not getting into the Spain squad, but you have to accept that it's because of ability, not any other barriers. He has no chance of becoming an important player for Spain - Busquets, Javi Martínez, Thiago, Cesc, Koke, Iniesta is going to be far too difficult for him to get past, and youth players like Óliver Torres and maybe (if he gets past his awful season) Illarramendi will probably overtake him.

Like I said, another Arteta. Good, but not good enough at the very highest level.

TBF mate this just substantiates the broader point I was making.

1. Iturraspe : For one I don't think he's superior to Hererra but that's just opinion based and I might be wrong. But in another sense he only had Busquents to contend (and is fairly similar in playing style) with (Martinez although a DM is mostly deployed as a CD by Spain). While Ander had to supercede Xavi, Alonso, Iniesta and Fabregas (to a certain degree because the can play further forward too), Koke, Thiago (until his untimely injury). They play for Real, Barcelona, Bayern and Atletico (best team last season). We can also make the case that Gabi should've been Spain's first choice CM this world cup but he wasn't because he's not a like-for-like replacement for any of the first XI players. That clearly shows there's more to things than meets the eye wrt Spain's midfield choices.

2 Inigo - Spain have 2 standout first choice (relatively) central defenders - Pique and Ramos. After that there's wilderness (with Puyol's sabbatical) and they have Javi to plug the gap. So it wasn't hard for Inigo to meander in. (BTW he was putrid at times last season - just shocking). So it's not always a case of best man for the job but rather a combination of seniority in the ranks to preserve harmony, player suitability for replacing a first teamer and lack of (in defensive terms) choices available at the specific position.

3 Alberto Moreno - Again Spain have no one of top quality besides Alba so Moreno was the sensible choice apart from Juan Bernat who's a bit behind in his progression.

It's all speculation TBF but some knowledgable (atleast in terms of the Spanish NT) reporters have stated that Ander has a good chance to be part of Spain's future plans. Of course as you said the competition will still be tough. But I do think at this stage Ander has more polish than Oliver (a player I absolutely love), Illaramendi or Saul. It might also depend on Spain's tactics going forward. If Barcelona's shake-up is any indication there'll be a shift to a slightly more adventurous style of play which would really suit Ander (signing for United will also give him a bigger profile).

 

[ravi2]

So to the important stuff..
Is he any good in FIFA14???

He is ok on FIFA14...nothing special tho.
I suspect that will change for next season's roster.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Just on the Spanish NT. The first XI has basically been Busquets, Alonso, Xavi, Iniesta for the past 4 years. Fabregas gets a run out or a sub appearance when they want to "go direct" - or they'll come up with a job for him like false 9. When a new midfielder comes in, he's supposed to be a direct replacement for one of the four starters. Herrera isn't.

The squad is about to go through an overhaul. The question for most Spanish fans isn't whether Xavi and Alonso are going, it's whether players like Fabregas and Cazorla are ditched as well. Certainly they are not seen in Spain as the core of the new team, they're the squad players of the old one and people say they are too old for that job.

Herrera may never be the type of midfielder that Del Bosque (or the next manager, if he leaves) wants for Spain - that doesn't actually tell you whether he'll be good for us.

Garcia, Suarez and Iturraspe are the midfielders he is competing with for getting random friendly appearances.

Second statement is true, I believe he will be a good player for us and he will improve our first eleven a lot especially if he isn't the only midfielder we sign this year. I do believe we need to get a top tier DM to allow Herrera(and the rest of the team) to be well balanced and good at regaining the ball as well.

Without another midfielder next to him who has the legs it will be another year of Fellaini/Carrick where neither has the ability to do their job well enough.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

I think a midfield diamond would make the most sense if we opt to play Rooney in midfield, we need some cover for the defense with Rooney being a lot more casual in his marking. It'd also make sense why we are not going for a winger or two either.

DDG
Rafael Jones Evans Evra
Carrick
Herrera Rooney
Mata
Januzaz RvP​

 

[simonhch]

I agree, the 4-2-3-1 is the formation most similar to what he describes and wants to use. He preferred the "double pivot" over the DM-CM-CM idea because he doesn't want to rely on players moving out of their positions to create space for others - he prefers if the step forward is available always for them.

Ok. . My objection to the 4-2-3-1 classification is because I usually see the double pivot as being inherently negative as they both tend to stay deep. I think one of the two in Van Gaal's system is much more positive going forwards and joining the attacking phase. The role I would expect Ander to fill. But you are right, the closest description to the formation he likes to play is 4-2-3-1. I was being pedantic. We can definitely agree that it is hard to define. Somewhere between 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3.

For me the most interesting thing will be who his number 10 is in that system? If it is Rooney, I can't see any space for Mata in the team. LVG likes his wide forwards to stay wide I believe. I'd prefer Mata in the 10 and Rooney shunted to the left. But it's all speculation at this point.

When his teams attack in this formation, you usually see one of the CB's push into midfield so it becomes more of a 3-2-4-1. Which is why I imagine he wants Hummels.

All I really know is that OT will be a really exciting place next year. I have so much faith in LVG it's ridiculous. I think he'll make a huge difference in the short term but more importantly, I think he will lay down a vital long term modernization of the club from youth level on up. It's good for him that he is coming to the club off the back of the worst campaign of results and performances that any fan under 32 or 33 can remember.

 

[Woodzy]

I think Ogden has also mentioned in he past that he has a source(s) connected to the club that he can't reveal. There's every chance that the source isn't connected the club right now.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Is he in the Spanish World Cup squad?

 

[NotoriousISSY]

I think a midfield diamond would make the most sense if we opt to play Rooney in midfield, we need some cover for the defense with Rooney being a lot more casual in his marking. It'd also make sense why we are not going for a winger or two either.

DDG
Rafael Jones Evans Evra
Carrick
Herrera Rooney
Mata
Januzaz RvP​

That isn't far off his 5-3-2 to be fair because if Rafael and Evra are there for width, Carrick will almost certainly drop in.

Rooney in midfield doesn't sit well with me, but the rest looks very nice.

 

[jojojo]

Garcia, Suarez and Iturraspe are the midfielders he is competing with for getting random friendly appearances.

Second statement is true, I believe he will be a good player for us and he will improve our first eleven a lot especially if he isn't the only midfielder we sign this year. I do believe we need to get a top tier DM to allow Herrera(and the rest of the team) to be well balanced and good at regaining the ball as well.

Without another midfielder next to him who has the legs it will be another year of Fellaini/Carrick where neither has the ability to do their job well enough.

Garcia made his Spain debut at 25, and has played about an hour. Iturraspe the same. Suarez was even older on his first appearance and has played about the same amount. Those random appearances don't add up to much.

Herrera is 24, he's still waiting in line by those standards.

 

[mufcwarm92]

He is ok on FIFA14...nothing special tho.
I suspect that will change for next season's roster.

They update it on a weekly basis nowadays so I wouldn't bet on it given they haven't budged his stats for the entire year.

 

[dev1l]

I think Ogden has also mentioned in he past that he has a source(s) connected to the club that he can't reveal. There's every chance that the source isn't connected the club right now.

it s either Río, buttner or moysey then lol

 

[charlenefan]

I won't pretend to know anything about him other than Bilbao quite easily trounced us a few seasons back and he was part of that and that Balague named him in his La Liga team of the season last season so to me it points to him being a positive signing....but... Going back to last summers targets? Signs of us getting desperate?

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

That isn't far off his 5-3-2 to be fair because if Rafael and Evra are there for width, Carrick will almost certainly drop in.

Rooney in midfield doesn't sit well with me, but the rest looks very nice.

There's a lot of possibilities with that line up and Rooney/Mata can drift wide and Januzaz can drop to the right wing if we needed more protection on the flanks or width against stubborn teams. Fellaini I imagine would do well in the Carrick role as well against teams that play aerial between the defense and midfield.

 

[El-Manos]

From Carrick - fellaini to perhaps Herrera--Schweinsteiger---Mata... No complaints here

 

[Annahnomoss]

Ok. . My objection to the 4-2-3-1 classification is because I usually see the double pivot as being inherently negative as they both tend to stay deep. I think one of the two in Van Gaal's system is much more positive going forwards and joining the attacking phase. The role I would expect Ander to fill. But you are right, the closest description to the formation he likes to play is 4-2-3-1. I was being pedantic. We can definitely agree that it is hard to define. Somewhere between 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3.

For me the most interesting thing will be who his number 10 is in that system. If it is Rooney, I can't see any space for Mata in the team. LVG likes his wide forwards to stay wide I believe. I'd prefer Mata in the 10 and Rooney shunted to the left. But it's all speculation at this point.

When his teams attack in this formation, you usually see one of the CB's push into midfield so it becomes more of a 3-2-4-1. Which is why I imagine he wants Hummels.

All I really know is that OT will be a really exciting place next year. I have so much faith in LVG is ridiculous. I think he'll make a huge difference in the short term but more importantly, I think he will lay down a vital long term modernization of the club from youth level on up.

Yeah, formations are never perfect just the least imperfect way to describe as much as possible in a .jpg.

The Rooney VS Mata question is indeed very interesting. There is no way he can play the way he likes while Mata and Rooney are both in their preferred positions and only rather creative solutions can solve this.

I think that he will be desperately looking to turn Rooney/Mata/Kagawa in to better defensive players who he may use in the central midfield. I think it is the way which would solve most problems while being a typical LVG thing to convert an AM/winger in to a unique central midfielder. I can't see Mata or Kagawa get game-time out wide as like you say LVG wants his wingers to provide width as their first and second most important role, everything else after that is a bonus. Rooney hardly fits that description either as he has even worse dribbling than Mata and Kagawa, who's dribbling isn't enough either in such a dribbling demanding role.

If any conversion works it suddenly makes the team look pretty brilliant, I also expect him to compensate then by pulling down the number 10 as the midfield will already be stocked in creativity so we won't need a designated number 10 who acts as a playmaker.


Assuming the conversion works which is impossible to predict:

------Rooney----Herrera
-------------Mata
Winger----------------Winger
-------------RVP

Or:

-----Kagawa---Herrera-
------------Mata
Winger-------------Winger
------------RVP

 

[Santos J]

I won't pretend to know anything about him other than Bilbao quite easily trounced us a few seasons back and he was part of that and that Balague named him in his La Liga team of the season last season so to me it points to him being a positive signing....but... Going back to last summers targets? Signs of us getting desperate?

How does signing a player we wanted to sign before equate to desperation?

 

[Red Hand Devil]

Which is what I told you should happen all along. He should have a look at what deals we have in the pipeline and decide if he wants us to continue pursuing them, and put an end to those he didn't.

It always made sense to do it that way.

I still stand by main point in that discussion Nev - that United know more about what we need than Van Gaal would & the key areas where we are extremely lacking in quality. With that in mind, Van Gaal has to trust our scouting & the homework we've done on certain players over the last couple of seasons etc.

Its not beyond the realms of possibility that United have told Van Gaal that Shaw & Herrera will be pursued regardless & there's been quite some bargaining gone on - like it does at every club. Look what happened last summer when Moyes vetoed the alleged "nailed-on" signings of Thiago, Strootman & Garay because he either didnt rate them, or think they could play in the Prem?! Total feck up altogether!!

My own opinion is that United wont allow top-class talent to be passed-up again this summer - unless Van Gaal has better gems up his sleave than we do of course. Both parties have to meet in the middle. Next season is a very important season for the reputation of the club & we need top-class players in this summer. No chance United are just gonna let Van Gaal have full reign to sign whoever he wants without a debate on it..

 

[Erebus]

I won't pretend to know anything about him other than Bilbao quite easily trounced us a few seasons back and he was part of that and that Balague named him in his La Liga team of the season last season so to me it points to him being a positive signing....but... Going back to last summers targets? Signs of us getting desperate?

or dealing with business that should have been completed a year ago. Are we really just making up for the lost year? Good signing anyway.

 

[BD]

Yeah, formations are never perfect just the least imperfect way to describe as much as possible in a .jpg.

The Rooney VS Mata question is indeed very interesting. There is no way he can play the way he likes while Mata and Rooney are both in their preferred positions and only rather creative solutions can solve this.

I think that he will be desperately looking to turn Rooney/Mata/Kagawa in to better defensive players who he may use in the central midfield. I think it is the way which would solve most problems while being a typical LVG thing to convert an AM/winger in to a unique central midfielder. I can't see Mata or Kagawa get game-time out wide as like you say LVG wants his wingers to provide width as their first and second most important role, everything else after that is a bonus. Rooney hardly fits that description either as he has even worse dribbling than Mata and Kagawa, who's dribbling isn't enough either in such a dribbling demanding role.

If any conversion works it suddenly makes the team look pretty brilliant, I also expect him to compensate then by pulling down the number 10 as the midfield will already be stocked in creativity so we won't need a designated number 10 who acts as a playmaker.


Assuming the conversion works which is impossible to predict:

------Rooney----Herrera
-------------Mata
Winger----------------Winger
-------------RVP

Or:

-----Kagawa---Herrera-
------------Mata
Winger-------------Winger
------------RVP

I can tell you with near 100% certainty that neither of them will work, especially the one with Kagawa in the center.

 

[Gopher Brown]

Apparently he returns to light training in August. Would that be enough to pass a medical? haha

The medical is carried out under United's instructions. It's not like a 3rd party comes along and tells us whether he's passed or not. We can sign injured players as long as their recovery is going well.

Heck, we can sign injured players even if they recovery is going badly.

 

[shivab]

I don't think that's necessarily true. Anyone who remembers United pre-Fergie's fledgelings will recognise Herrera's style instantly: He's a number 8 who will pick up the ball in midfield and drive forward with it, trying to commit players and make room for others. It was the hallmark of players like Keane, Ince and Robson. Herrera obviously doesn't have their physical presence or power. But in terms of approach, if you're trying to imagine what having Ander Herrera in your centre midfield is like, think of that (but not quite as good and maybe not ever going to be. Still half as good as great is still pretty damned good...) Herrera does have good passing, particularly when the through ball is on, but he isn't the type of player who cuts the opposition apart with a 30 or 40 yard pass. The way he opens teams up is by taking the game to them and making them leave their defensive lines to stop him. That way gaps open up for his team mates, and he can play quick short sharp passes into their feet for them to take advantage of it. It's not like having a Xavi or a Pirlo or a Scholes but its not ineffective either. Bayern Munich won the treble with two, all energy, box-to-box midfielders a year ago after all...

But thats exactly my point. Having someone like Carrick next to Herrera would be a waste. even though he thrives in a 3-man midfield, if we were to play him in a double pivot or just as a box to box player next to a playmaker, his partner in the middle has to be a player who has similar energy levels and enjoys getting stuck in as much as herrera does (in fact the whole team must play that way) or else one of the best parts of his game, which is his pressing and winning the ball will be lost. theres no use in only few players pressing and others not doing it. carricks style is not to press but to block angles of passing from further away. I dont think that would compliment herrera. Im just trying to emphasize that we need another central midfield singning.

 

[hobbers]

DDG
Rafael - Evans - Hummels - Shaw
------------ Strootman
Herrera ----------
Mata
Robben -------------- Kagawa/Rooney
RVP
​

Yes please King Louis. Maybe De Jong can take Strootman's role until January.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I can tell you with near 100% certainty that neither of them will work, especially the one with Kagawa in the center.

I agree. The thing with LVG is that it isn't a 100% sure he has pulled similar rabbits out of his hats before for most teams he managed. Davids, Seedorf and Schweinsteiger are good examples. As easy as it is now to say "but those had great abilities for a CM" there was a time where nobody saw those abilities and everybody said they were wingers.