Only if you believe we bid for players without 1st ascertaining whether they'd want to come. You didnt think his month long silence when everyone from the board to alves to alves's sister saying he should stay meant anything?
Ander Herrera is a Manchester United Player!
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
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Only if you believe we bid for players without 1st ascertaining whether they'd want to come. You didnt think his month long silence when everyone from the board to alves to alves's sister saying he should stay meant anything?
You think he has it in him to be a really top player?
This is a discussion for a different thread I suppose. But its utterly bizarre how low we valued Fabregas, bidding more on Herrera is laughable. This whole window has been mental.
We're over paying for Herrera by about 15m.
Nah mate. Considering how much the other similar players cost, we are not underpaying for him. Madrid payed more for Illarramendi who isn't as good as Herrera (although he had a better season in the last one, but the entire Athletic team under-performed). Fellaini apparently is going to cost around 30m EUR. 30m for Herrera is spot on, but I wouldn't bother if we overpay another 6m considering how desperate we are in midfield.
This is a discussion for a different thread I suppose. But its utterly bizarre how low we valued Fabregas, bidding more on Herrera is laughable. This whole window has been mental.
We're over paying for Herrera by about 15m.
Wrong.
And just because we bid 30/35M for Fabregas, but no higher, doesn't mean that we value him at that. It was to gauge interest and see what they say. They said no a million times, so we stepped back. If we were told to fork out 40/45M, we would've(I'd imagine).
This bid is a fecking joke. They'll ask for IVA on top of that.
If this were 2007 I'd agree with you.
Comedic genius!
Leon Osman jokes, I love it! What ever will you think of next? You crazy kook, you!
The offer we've placed makes sense. You don't go in all guns blazing and pay the biggest price possible straight away. £25m for a player who had an inconsistent season last year in a team which had significant problems...pretty fair. On the £25m bid, Bilbao would be making a £18m profit after signing him from Zaragoza for £7m two years ago.
But it's up to Woody to do his cost-benefit analysis now. The cnut
But it's up to Woody to do his cost-benefit analysis now. The cnut
Before people get to into the release clause thing.
If we have to make a formal release payment, we will do it on the player's behalf - there's now case law to back up this direct payment method, so there's no income tax.
A 36m Euro clause written in 2011, may contain an inflation factor (like Illarramendi's) however given they are talking about it going up to 40m next year, I'd guess we're being quoted the current total.
If you pay a release clause, you may have to pay the IVA (VAT) as you would on a normal transfer so that adds about 7m. However a VAT registered entity gets its VAT back so that's no big deal. Indeed as a foreign EU company we probably won't actually need to lodge the IVA as international payments are normally done without it.
If we have to make a formal release payment, we will do it on the player's behalf - there's now case law to back up this direct payment method, so there's no income tax.
A 36m Euro clause written in 2011, may contain an inflation factor (like Illarramendi's) however given they are talking about it going up to 40m next year, I'd guess we're being quoted the current total.
If you pay a release clause, you may have to pay the IVA (VAT) as you would on a normal transfer so that adds about 7m. However a VAT registered entity gets its VAT back so that's no big deal. Indeed as a foreign EU company we probably won't actually need to lodge the IVA as international payments are normally done without it.
I understand that, but it's not the main reason they play hardball over selling their players. They are in a unique situation.
So yesterday we made official bids for Fellaini, Baines and Herrera. All rejected. FFS!
Italian press apparently saying we made a 12M bid for De Rossi too. You guessed it, also rejected apparently.
Italian press apparently saying we made a 12M bid for De Rossi too. You guessed it, also rejected apparently.
So you'd say he's worth £15m? There's no way he's worth that, even coming off the back of a poor season.
People need to understand that we're not buying from any old club here. This is a club with a proud heritage, who benched their best player and talisman for a whole year because he wanted to leave. If you want one of their players, you either wait until they are out of contract or you have to pay above the odds. At a club like United, where a few million Euros really isn't a great deal, I'd much rather us pay over the odds because we've identified him as a player who'd really suit us as opposed to moving on to different targets for the sake of getting their true value's worth.
Maybe he was just asking for guarantees from Barca. We wouldn't talk with the player before the bid was accepted anyway, people say that we are a classy club that wouldn't ever do that
Fabregas was a big No from the beginning, waste of time.
I thought they were saying Chelsea could have him for £11m?
He's worth £30m to a club that wants to sell when the player wants to move.
£40m to a club that will reluctantly give permission for talks.
£50m+ to a club that wants to keep the player.
Priceless if the player isn't ever going to agree to move. Barca obviously gave Fabregas the assurances he wanted and he had no intention of going.
It would be too much for us. We don't pay that much regardless what Woody want us to believe.
Also I said 50-60m and even that wouldn't guarantee that Barca would sell. They have the second highest revenue on the world and had just lost a midfielder. There was no chance they were going to lose Cesc.
Maybe he was just asking for guarantees from Barca. We wouldn't talk with the player before the bid was accepted anyway, people say that we are a classy club that wouldn't ever do that
Fabregas was a big No from the beginning, waste of time.
He could be and the new manager might have given that. But there was a big window when Tito was in charge when we could have sealed it. And every club talks with the player's camp first i reckon, the whole think is a load of bollocks.
Times change, things change. Just because we've never paid it before doesnt mean we never will. The way the market is going, we'l have to at some stage.
Ohh and I do agree it was always very unlikely that Barca would sell. That is why the 35mil bids were taking the piss. We needed to make them think, a 35mil bid email would be deleted without even reading the body of the mail.
So we've gone from making one bid every two weeks to making four in one day? I call that progress.
Athletic are the first club this Summer who have indicated they'd be willing to sell for an amount they have in mind. Woodward doesn't need to do any guesswork for once. It's on.
Exactly, at least the panic in the upper echelons of utd is starting to mirror the panic felt by the fans.
Yeah clearly the transfer fee is linked to whether the club wants to sell or not, but that doesn't alter the fact that we didn't 'test their resolve' with a £25million bid.
Even if they would have reluctantly sold Fabregas they never would for that amount, it was a pointless offer. If we had bid £40million then there is no way to know what Barcelona would have said, maybe they would have asked for £50million or maybe they would have accepted it, you never know.
Every player has his price though and Barcelona could have used the money to finance a move for some defenders, especially after spending £50million on Neymar.
We have been rejected all the way this summer. 
Can't say I'm too keen on breaking our transfer record on a player so far outside the top bracket of midfielders, but needs must if we want to improve the weakest area of the team.
You're missing the point I'm trying to make.
The key to a transfer of a top player is generally whether he wants the move. Nine times out of ten, if he does then he usually gets it. With Fabregas that was the major issue.
If he had wanted the move no doubt United would have upped the bid. The reason they didnt get the player was because he didnt want the move, not because they wouldnt pay the money.
Essentially whether United had bid £100 million or £10 million for the player doesn't change the fact that he ultimately decided he didnt want to go. Agreeing a fee with Barca makes little to no difference to the players position and in this case, had they done so earlier on he almost certainly would have rejected the move. So agreeing a fee would have essentially made no difference at all.
You also ignore the basic fact as to how negotiations work. You make your lowest offer - the otherside says they want a lot more and you generally meet in the middle. Starting high only shows the selling club you're desperate.
I have no doubt that if Fabregas wanted the move, United would have increased their bid. Perhaps not to what Barca wanted but the reality is it never got that far.
Thiago - fail
Cesc x2- fail
Baines x3 - fail
Fellaini x2 - fail
Herrera - fail
De Rossi - fail
feck sake, Woody. You're useless.
Cesc x2- fail
Baines x3 - fail
Fellaini x2 - fail
Herrera - fail
De Rossi - fail
feck sake, Woody. You're useless.
Is there time for one more epic muppet thread? I feel we'll need to pull out all the stop. Deadline day shall be nuts.
Since when are we bidding for De Rossi?
He'd be an amazing short term solution mind you... but I imagine any rumour that we're in for him is utter nonsense.
He'd be an amazing short term solution mind you... but I imagine any rumour that we're in for him is utter nonsense.
We can only say that in hindsight. Like you say, Barca paid £50m Neymar, and perhaps they would have accepted a £30m offer out of desperate need for money (more than they paid Arsenal for him, lest we forget). They didn't and we can all look bemused after the event. If they'd accepted it would have looked like an amazing bit of business.
Absolutely. We're in desperate need of a CM, and the world knows it. Woodie however , hasn't quite got the concept of paying the right price for a CM is needed.
If Barcelona accepted a bid then Fabregas might have left. It's obviously conjecture but then so is saying that he would never entertain leaving the club, both can't be proved.
It could be bullshit, but the media were saying that Fabregas wanted assurances that he would be a first choice player for Barca and if they decided to sell him and wouldn't give those assurances then he could have left.
Agreeing a fee would have made a huge difference. Cesc himself said back in May he would never leave Barca unless they want to. If they accepted a bid then that would clearly indicate they're ok with him leaving.
No, I got your point. You're saying he didnt want to move at all. Am saying he was ready to move if we could convince barca to sell but wasnt ready to throw his toys out of the pram and force a move which was to be expected given the history of him and the club. Us making 35mil bids meant we never got to a stage where barca would agree and it'd be upto the player to decide.
We bid more for Lucas, to be fair. I think Ander has a better chance of making it into the top bracket than Berbatov did.
Yeah definitely. I'm not even criticising the club because I'm not too arsed about not getting him as it was always a long shot, just think the whole thing was strange. If you have a budget which we do then its fair enough that you aren't going to bid £50million plus for a player, but going in that low and then offering the same for Herrera seems wierd
I'm actually now hoping we sign this kid, fee regardless. Come on Ed, go back to your laptop, open that offer letter, change the offer amount to 36m Euros and let's be done with it.
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