Ander Herrera is a Manchester United Player!

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Interval Level said:
Killer passes :lol: How do you measure those?
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kps88 said:
Doesn't the list of players Brwned provided tell you the stat is mostly useless? I wouldn't want any of those players in our midfield.
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Yeah, it's key passes.. my bad.

Yes, the top 5 players for pass percentage in the league aren't incredible, but Herrera would have been about the 150th player in our league last year if he carried his stats over perfectly. As much as it's not the most important thing, he has some other good stats (tackles, long balls etc.) it's still not worth ignoring.
For a player with such quality on the ball, what is the deal with his passing, does he have 'Charlie Adam - Hollywood Ball' syndrome? Is he too ambitious?
In our team, the players around his % are strikers who play their passes in the final third - for somebody as deep as this kid plays, 80% seems strangely low.

jojojo gives one possible reason below.. however so far this season he's got an even lower % and playing deeper. So last season was due to being played further up the field, this season due to poor form?

jojojo said:
He was playing effectively as a #10 last year because he was the best midfielder they had, and they needed him going forwards. He wasn't the one being asked to retain the ball, he was being asked to get it into his (out of form or inexperienced) front men.

It's not his natural position in my opinion, he's higher up the global midfielder pecking order when he plays in a midfield two or a true midfield three. They played him in that forward role because of his drive and aggression, which is why a while back I compared a couple of his performances, though not his shooting ability, to Gerrard.
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jojojo said:
He was playing effectively as a #10 last year because he was the best midfielder they had, and they needed him going forwards. He wasn't the one being asked to retain the ball, he was being asked to get it into his (out of form or inexperienced) front men.

It's not his natural position in my opinion, he's higher up the global midfielder pecking order when he plays in a midfield two or a true midfield three. They played him in that forward role because of his drive and aggression, which is why a while back I compared a couple of his performances, though not his shooting ability, to Gerrard.

When his team's under pressure, he's the one who comes for the pass or chases down. He's not an Ozil, a Rooney or an Oscar 10. He was used as a 10 because Athletic needed someone who could back up a misfiring forward line, by taking some risks from midfield.

I'm not really sure what's happening to him right now. New manager, new instructions and he's not quite found his new role? Who knows maybe he'll be down to our valuation by the end of the season - though, of course we won't want him either if he has a poor season. Dilemmas eh?
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Remind you of somebody? ;)
 
Granted, i've only seen him a handful of times - one of which when he tore us a new arsehole in the Europa Cup - but I don't think he is this 'world class' player that Moyes is saying we need to improve the first team. Yes, he'd be a good purchased but only to replace a squad player (Anderson). If he wants WC players, then he needs to be looking at bigger fish than this dude.
 
JazzG said:
Surely two You Tube videos aren't the best way to judge a player? Just ask the Liverpool bosses who used it to judge Downing....
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It was just a general comment on the vids, he does look talented i.e. very very agile, sort of player we're crying for in midfield in terms of his turning ability and nimbleness of feet, not to mention his eye for the killer ball but is he always so wayward? would have to watch more of him to make a judgement, but I still think he's worth £20m range and he would've added something to our midfield for sure, but is he the only answer? not too sure, better to weigh up our options and wait until next summer than rushing a January move imo.
 
Actually he played as a deep central midfielder last season. Before that and once again this season, he's back playing behind the striker as he did for Spain under 21s before his move to Bilbao. This is considered his "natural position" which is a rubbish term anyway. Lots of players dont have one, but most of Ander's managers have used him in the hole
 
Ekeke said:
Actually he played as a deep central midfielder last season. Before that and once again this season, he's back playing behind the striker as he did for Spain under 21s before his move to Bilbao. This is considered his "natural position" which is a rubbish term anyway. Lots of players dont have one, but most of Ander's managers have used him in the hole
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I actually think you're right about the natural position thing. I admit it's a misnomer really where you can end up pigeonholing a player into a narrow role instead of looking at how a team can use him. The point I'd make is he's a "proper" midfielder, not a #10.

I think that's the problem in saying what he might/might not be worth to us. He's criticised in Spain when he plays deep, but I like him there. In that position, he's more like an English midfielder than a Spanish archetype like Xavi or Busquets. Athletic needed him to be more aggressive going forwards, particularly in big games - and he really did do the box to box thng in some of those games. So I didn't see it as lack of discipline, I saw it as tactical.

However playing further up the field, he gets compared with players who score more goals and who get more assists.

As I've said before, I don't have a problem with us not rating him at 36m Euros. You can't go into a bid with a blank cheque. The problem I had with what happened in the summer was with us bidding late to a team that always needs recruitment time more than money.
 
If we want Herrera then we have to pay the price UNLESS we wait till his contract ends. Id say its time for our scouts to move their arses and find cheaper alternatives. That's why they are paid for in the first place.
 
jojojo said:
I actually think you're right about the natural position thing. I admit it's a misnomer really where you can end up pigeonholing a player into a narrow role instead of looking at how a team can use him. The point I'd make is he's a "proper" midfielder, not a #10.

I think that's the problem in saying what he might/might not be worth to us. He's criticised in Spain when he plays deep, but I like him there. In that position, he's more like an English midfielder than a Spanish archetype like Xavi or Busquets. Athletic needed him to be more aggressive going forwards, particularly in big games - and he really did do the box to box thng in some of those games. So I didn't see it as lack of discipline, I saw it as tactical.

However playing further up the field, he gets compared with players who score more goals and who get more assists.

As I've said before, I don't have a problem with us not rating him at 36m Euros. You can't go into a bid with a blank cheque. The problem I had with what happened in the summer was with us bidding late to a team that always needs recruitment time more than money.
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Well he should do more in the final third, and he can. But the consistancy isnt there yet

He certainly can play in CM but I dont see him as the outstanding controlling Spanish midfielder that gets assumed when you mention those words together. I think in that position he's just a better Cleverley - Someone who can pass well and link up a bit around the box. Also when he plays in the midfield for Bilbao they tend to play 3, so he can get forwards more like you say.

Its a funny one because I've always rated him as a player since I saw him for the under 21s and he was arguably the pick of the side in the tournament I saw. But fast forward some years and now we're talking £25 million and more? Thats a huge jump. Personally I'd never have paid more than £20 million for him even if prices are going up. I just don't think he gives enough for those kinds of prices.

I mean Banega is better and has played the same positions and I wouldn't want us paying more than about £20 million for him either.
 
Ekeke said:
Well he should do more in the final third, and he can. But the consistancy isnt there yet

He certainly can play in CM but I dont see him as the outstanding controlling Spanish midfielder that gets assumed when you mention those words together. I think in that position he's just a better Cleverley - Someone who can pass well and link up a bit around the box. Also when he plays in the midfield for Bilbao they tend to play 3, so he can get forwards more like you say.
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That might be the thing then. I like Cleverley and I do see Herrerra as a better Cleverley, with more energy, aggression and a bigger range of passes.
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Mind you I still hope/believe Tom himself will become a better Cleverley. :devil:
 
Seen a few folk mention Koke. He's turned into an absolute quality all rounder of a midfielder. Would love if United try to go for him next summer.
 
jojojo said:
That might be the thing then. I like Cleverley and I do see Herrerra as a better Cleverley, with more energy, aggression and a bigger range of passes.
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Mind you I still hope/believe Tom himself will become a better Cleverley. :devil:
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I agree. From what I've seen Herrera is more willing to play the risky pass/through ball than Cleverley is atm, and he's also more likely to get stuck in and try to win the ball back, but I like Cleverley a lot too.
 
Orton said:
Seen a few folk mention Koke. He's turned into an absolute quality all rounder of a midfielder. Would love if United try to go for him next summer.
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Cool middle name too (Resurrección). Maybe he is the one who will resurrect our midfield.....
 
Orton said:
Seen a few folk mention Koke. He's turned into an absolute quality all rounder of a midfielder. Would love if United try to go for him next summer.
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I think we'll be joining a queue, but like they say: you've got to be in it to win it.

Incidentally maybe he should be in his own thread now. At least then people won't complain about him coming out of nowhere if we do bid.
 
Koke plays left and right midfield for Atletico. Would be very different coming to the premier league and playing CM in a 2 for a top team
 
Starting for Bilbao live on Sky Sports 1 now against Balencia.
 
Subbed off in almost every game this season.
Frustrating.
 
Are people actually keeping an eye out for Herrera? I would have thought that signing Fellaini would have ended our interest in him, despite rumours suggesting we were after the two.
 
We dodged a bullet then :lol:

I didn't see the match, only the halftime highlights and he looked OK on that. But subbed off at HT again is a bit grim.

The commentator said he'd been quiet - which isn't how people usually describe him. I think he's having trouble with how Valverde wants him to play. Certainly Valverde doesn't seem to be an Ander fan
 
Even though he didn't score against Sunderland, I thought our best created chance was RVP's one-on-one which came about after Valencia beat a couple of men through the middle of the pitch. That dribbling ability is what we lack in midfield imo and it's probably why we were so keen on Thiago, Fabregas and Herrera over the Summer. Given how well Barkley has trained on, not to mention Moyes' links to the lad, I tend to think we'll be building on our English core rather than looking to Spain for a midfield solution this Summer. Ander's chance has come and gone I reckon.
 
jojojo said:
We dodged a bullet then :lol:

I didn't see the match, only the halftime highlights and he looked OK on that. But subbed off at HT again is a bit grim.

The commentator said he'd been quiet - which isn't how people usually describe him. I think he's having trouble with how Valverde wants him to play. Certainly Valverde doesn't seem to be an Ander fan
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I have a feeling a large part of that has to do with our deadline day affairs. Can't see a player that has been one of their best and key players since he's been there simply becoming a bit part player just because of a change of manager, unless the manager simply doesn't like him for personal reasons.
 
bosnian_red said:
I have a feeling a large part of that has to do with our deadline day affairs. Can't see a player that has been one of their best and key players since he's been there simply becoming a bit part player just because of a change of manager, unless the manager simply doesn't like him for personal reasons.
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That's a convenient excuse. He was top class before United fans started looking at him seriously.
 
charleysurf said:
That's a convenient excuse. He was top class before United fans started looking at him seriously.
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He still is a class player. This wouldn't be the first time where Bilbao freezes out a player for wanting to leave, despite being their best player the year before (Llorente). He's definitely not worth 30 million, but there aren't many midfielders in the world who are. I know I would sure as hell rather spend that money on him instead of Fellaini, who isn't worth half of that price.
 
bosnian_red said:
He still is a class player. This wouldn't be the first time where Bilbao freezes out a player for wanting to leave, despite being their best player the year before (Llorente). He's definitely not worth 30 million, but there aren't many midfielders in the world who are. I know I would sure as hell rather spend that money on him instead of Fellaini, who isn't worth half of that price.
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The guy is starting games but keeps on getting subbed after making little impact. I doubt he is getting subbed because of spite on Bilbaos part. I am sure there is potentially a really top player there. But maybe not the new Iniesta who will solve all our problems and must be bought at any price. You at least seem to have some perspective on that. Plenty on here seemed to have lost all perspective when all the shit went down.
 
Does this decrease our interest?

Or mean Bilbao are more willing to negotiate?

Or.. feck all?
 
Alock1 said:
Does this decrease our interest?

Or mean Bilbao are more willing to negotiate?

Or.. feck all?
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I suppose United have already valued him at a certain price, lower than Bilboas price. If we did still want to buy him then we would need him to stink up the pitch every game to lower the price.
 
charleysurf said:
The guy is starting games but keeps on getting subbed after making little impact. I doubt he is getting subbed because of spite on Bilbaos part. I am sure there is potentially a really top player there. But maybe not the new Iniesta who will solve all our problems and must be bought at any price. You at least seem to have some perspective on that. Plenty on here seemed to have lost all perspective when all the shit went down.
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Yeah, I was one who really wanted him but he obviously isn't the fix for everything. Would improve us a lot I feel though, and could potentially grow into a world class midfielder for us. He's probably the best midfielder we could realistically buy, and is excellent technically which is why so many of us wanted him. Also because he's a Spanish midfielder.
 
Again, Banega is better and 1 year older. Neither are worth the money it would have taken to sign Ander this summer
 
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