Ander Herrera is a Manchester United Player!

[Bilbo]

Had we signed Herrera and Fellaini it would've been job done. A physical presence and a top quality ball player to bolster our midfield. The most frustrating and annoying thing is that it was so, so close and we failed because the club decided to embark on some penny pinching while disgracing themselves with amateurish antics.

You don't know that this is what happened though, which is precisely the point. I would hazard a guess that the club were trying to find some way around having to pay the release clause and thus avoiding paying for a transfer fee up-front in full (which never happens these day).

I don't feel in any way that the club have 'disgraced' themselves here. My only gripe about this window is that the club have made anything at all public, which I doubt they will be repeating anytime soon. I would much prefer to have some awareness of what the club are doing, but too many fans get too emotional and judgemental about the whole thing that it's best kept under wraps.

 

[Bilbo]

The place would be hugely positive if we landed Herrara and Fellaini, rightly so because the two of them would have pretty much solved our midfield issues.

Regardless, it should have been done earlier. We've played three games and dropped 5 points which could have been avoided with Fellaini/Herrara. Given the length of the window I can't see any reason not to get business done early.. Why wouldn't you? Its just better in all respects.

The idea that you could pay less of a fee doesn't add up to me either really, Everton fleeced us in the end because they knew we were desperate. I said last night if I was Martinez I would have added £5million onto the price watching us scramble around on the last day like that.

And if we had backed off they would have been left with a want-away player whose club had cost him his dream move. It works both ways.

 

[Theon]

And if we had backed off they would have been left with a want-away player whose club had cost him his dream move. It works both ways.

It didn't work both ways, we paid £27.5million

Players don't get their moves all the time and life goes on. Rooney didn't get his move, is that some sort of disaster for us? Will he not perform because he wants away?

Seems to have played alright so far.

Business should have been done early, its not even debateable in my opinion.

 

[Bilbo]

His transfers were mostly late in the window with Everton if you look back. You cannot be that indecisive at a big club you have to identify your targets early and go after them. This deadline day bullshit is not for us.

With all due respect, you are aware that he only joined the club this summer aren't you? Are we judging him for not securing signings for a club that he hadn't joined yet?

 

[Ramshock]

I really hope we rectify the mess we did on this transfer and sign him up in January. Really wanted this to go through and am still pissed off at Woodward and the entire transfer team.

If whats been said is true then theres no hope. We can forget about Muniain too probably if we were interested.

 

[Ramshock]

With all due respect, you are aware that he only joined the club this summer aren't you? Are we judging him for not securing signings for a club that he hadn't joined yet?

How long does it take to identify targets? Other managers have gotten targets in before in less time. Not to mention the club would have had its own targets from the Ferguson era.

 

[Danillaco]

Skywarden had a great point in a PM. If that's accurate, our only mistake was going for him way too late, and Urrutia is the spanish Levy. Hard and cold motherfecker.

 

[Bilbo]

It didn't work both ways, we paid £27.5million

Players don't get their moves all the time and life goes on. Rooney didn't get his move, is that some sort of disaster for us? Will he not perform because he wants away?

Seems to have played alright so far.

I would prefer to know the ins and outs of the figure before passing judgement. If we are paying 20m with the rest in add-ons, for example, it looks like an entirely different kind of value.

 

[MDFC Manager]

If whats been said is true then theres no hope. We can forget about Muniain too probably if we were interested.

Has anything been said by Athletic or Herrera yet?

 

[Theon]

I would prefer to know the ins and outs of the figure before passing judgement. If we are paying 20m with the rest in add-ons, for example, it looks like an entirely different kind of value.

Clutching at straws here.

Trying to defend scrambling around on the last day of a two month window is a pointless exercise. Any reasonable person can tell it shouldn't come to that, its incompetent.

The comment you made about getting better prices on the last day doesn't hold true, and neither does the idea that players wont perform if they get kept on as we will see with Rooney.

Fellaini was a great signing and I've been for him all summer, but it should have been sorted months ago. Dicking around with Herrara on the last day was just mental.

 

[RedPhil1957]

I would prefer to know the ins and outs of the figure before passing judgement. If we are paying 20m with the rest in add-ons, for example, it looks like an entirely different kind of value.

You mean write with actual knowledge of the facts - good god man just re-print any old crap from newspapers like the rest of them.

 

[pocco]

How long does it take to identify targets? Other managers have gotten targets in before in less time. Not to mention the club would have had its own targets from the Ferguson era.

So if we already had targets then why are you insisting on holding Moyes accountable?

 

[Skywarden]

Depending on how much you want to believe this blogger, we were played by Bilbao.

http://enentredicho.wordpress.com/2013/09/03/que-ha-pasado-con-ander-herrera/

He wanted us, we wanted him and we were there to pay his clause.

1. We sent the law firm to pay his clause.
2. Athletic said "nope, we will not receive your money."
3. United had instructed the reps to pull the plug if issues occurred.
4. During the Martinez deal, Athletic said the same to Bayern, who then turn to governmental entities to put pressure on Athletic.
5. With so little time left of the window, United couldn't force the issue and pulled the plug to focus on Fellaini.

Edit: Forgot Danillaco's quick translation:

I read it quickly, because i'm at work, and apparently we didn't have to pay the IVA tax because it's an international deal. We, or the player could deposit the money and be done, but the club has to accept and there's nothing that forces them to. So it really don't matter if the player and United wanted it to happen, if Bilbao didn't.
With the Martinez deal, the german went weeks to the Hacienda Foral de Bizkaia, and other governamental and commercial entities much like a economy ministry, to unlock the deal. They put pressure in the club, and in the end Atlethic ended up accepting it and getting the deal done, but not without much hustle.

In the end, the player could not believe what just happened. And he wasn't a United player. I feel sorry for him. Hopefully we go back for him.

 

[Bilbo]

How long does it take to identify targets? Other managers have gotten targets in before in less time. Not to mention the club would have had its own targets from the Ferguson era.

We did identify targets. Two that we know of (Thiago and Fabregas) that would both have been fantastic signings. Unfortunately they didn't work out for us. I'll bet there were other players that we enquired about also.

Its unfair to judge Moyes on this transfer window, and we shouldn't underestimate the size of the transition that the club is going through right now. I'm happy that we signed a midfielder in the end, and I fully expect further arrivals in January.

 

[Ramshock]

Has anything been said by Athletic or Herrera yet?

Not sure. United in Press is on today on MUTV be interesting to hear what the journos say.

 

[Ish]

Thanks Summit/Skywarden for the copy/paste! Appreciate it.

 

[Bilbo]

You mean write with actual knowledge of the facts - good god man just re-print any old crap from newspapers like the rest of them.

It would make for a longer conversation, wouldn't it?

 

[Ish]

Ah yeah I feckin forgot about that. Woke up this morning thinkin about the hypocrisy of that prick Martinez, slagging us off in public about our confidential offer to them & those pricks cryin foul & being victimised by big bad Manchester United over their "derisory offer", which they didn't want to talk about it at pressers - because it was too distressing for that poor feck Martinez. Word of advice Martinez - don't go feckin public about it you media whore ya!

Yeah - Dave Whelan said something along those lines alright, focussing more "Absolute Madness" though.

Here man - check the old cnut out yourself:

http://talksport.com/football/exclu...ons-mccarthy-bid-absolute-madness-13090258359

Whelan

Thanks for the link RHD. Martinez has a big gob.

 

[#07]

Spanish media pointing the finger firmly at United for the Herrera fiasco. ESPN have run the story under the self-explanatory title: United blamed for Herrera farce.

 

[Red Shorts]

So they weren't imposters, but in fact a law firm we had sent to negotiate the deals themselves in case something wrong happened? Well isn't that typical Ballbags journalism saying they were imposters. I despsie that man

 

[Danillaco]

Depending on how much you want to believe this blogger, we were played by Bilbao.

http://enentredicho.wordpress.com/2013/09/03/que-ha-pasado-con-ander-herrera/

He wanted us, we wanted him and we were there to pay his clause.

1. We sent the law firm to pay his clause.
2. Athletic said "nope, we will not receive your money."
3. United had instructed the reps to pull the plug if issues occurred.
4. During the Martinez deal, Athletic said the same to Bayern, to then turn to governmental entities to put pressure on Athletic.
5. With so little time left of the window, United couldn't force the issue and pulled the plug to focus on Fellaini.

Edit: Forgot Danillaco's quick translation:

If that's true, we were really in for him and willing to pay, but got screwed by Urritia. That would make me happy, and noticed that we weren't that inept after all. Just slow. Thanks for the link, man!

 

[#07]

 

[Skywarden]

So they weren't imposters, but in fact a law firm we had sent to negotiate the deals themselves in case something wrong happened? Well isn't that typical Ballbags journalism saying they were imposters. I despsie that man

We were not there to negotiate but to simply conclude the deal. We were there to pay the clause and be done with.

Edit: formatting.

 

[Ish]

The idea that you could pay less of a fee doesn't add up to me either really, Everton fleeced us in the end because they knew we were desperate. I said last night if I was Martinez I would have added £5million onto the price watching us scramble around on the last day like that.

The poor bastard did, I'd say!

 

[pocco]

Depending on how much you want to believe this blogger, we were played by Bilbao.

http://enentredicho.wordpress.com/2013/09/03/que-ha-pasado-con-ander-herrera/

He wanted us, we wanted him and we were there to pay his clause.

1. We sent the law firm to pay his clause.
2. Athletic said "nope, we will not receive your money."
3. United had instructed the reps to pull the plug if issues occurred.
4. During the Martinez deal, Athletic said the same to Bayern, who then turn to governmental entities to put pressure on Athletic.
5. With so little time left of the window, United couldn't force the issue and pulled the plug to focus on Fellaini.

Edit: Forgot Danillaco's quick translation:

That reads a bit better for us. Hopefully we can still do a deal in January if that is the case.

 

[Bilbo]

Not sure. United in Press is on today on MUTV be interesting to hear what the journos say.

They will know as much as we do, but they'll get paid to waffle about it unlike us lot.

 

[Ramshock]

So if we already had targets then why are you insisting on holding Moyes accountable?

He is partly accountable I didn't say the blame was all his. I said he had a habit of leaving deals late at Everton.

 

[Ramshock]

They will know as much as we do, but they'll get paid to waffle about it unlike us lot.

Well that is hard to argue with but I imagine they would have a little more insight than us.

 

[Skywarden]

That reads a bit better for us. Hopefully we can still do a deal in January if that is the case.

Aye, but I reiterate. It's a rather unknown blogger so tread carefully.

 

[Ish]

Depending on how much you want to believe this blogger, we were played by Bilbao.

http://enentredicho.wordpress.com/2013/09/03/que-ha-pasado-con-ander-herrera/

He wanted us, we wanted him and we were there to pay his clause.

1. We sent the law firm to pay his clause.
2. Athletic said "nope, we will not receive your money."
3. United had instructed the reps to pull the plug if issues occurred.
4. During the Martinez deal, Athletic said the same to Bayern, who then turn to governmental entities to put pressure on Athletic.
5. With so little time left of the window, United couldn't force the issue and pulled the plug to focus on Fellaini.

Edit: Forgot Danillaco's quick translation:

I prefer to believe this version of events! The other version makes less sense with "impostors" etc and it just makes United look like fools.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Depending on how much you want to believe this blogger, we were played by Bilbao.

http://enentredicho.wordpress.com/2013/09/03/que-ha-pasado-con-ander-herrera/

He wanted us, we wanted him and we were there to pay his clause.

1. We sent the law firm to pay his clause.
2. Athletic said "nope, we will not receive your money."
3. United had instructed the reps to pull the plug if issues occurred.
4. During the Martinez deal, Athletic said the same to Bayern, who then turn to governmental entities to put pressure on Athletic.
5. With so little time left of the window, United couldn't force the issue and pulled the plug to focus on Fellaini.

Edit: Forgot Danillaco's quick translation:

Thanks mate. Given that Athletic are known to behave this way previously, I think the above events are quite likely.

 

[jojojo]

Depending on how much you want to believe this blogger, we were played by Bilbao.

I like that version of events better, it just makes us sound amateurish rather than like incompetent sharks.

However, it doesn't explain United's attempt to disown the lawyers. Why would we have to?
Why not just say the deal couldn't be completed due to obstacles from Athletic side?

 

[Seveneric]

We probably were although it might also be the case of us winning the first game of season convincingly and Moyes thinking he could get by without new signings. Then again it could also be Woodward thinking he can get Fellaini for much less than his release clause as proven by a £16m bid placed two weeks ago.

See this is one thing that bothers me now, the extent to which people think the officials at Man Utd are stupid. Do you really believe that Moyes knowing what United needed suddenly saw a convincing win in ONE game(yes it was against Swansea) and thought that he suddenly didn't need any reinforcements anymore? That's bizarre.

 

[Bilbo]

Well that is hard to argue with but I imagine they would have a little more insight than us.

I would happily believe you if we ever received any regular evidence that this was the case.

Martin Samuel is an example of a good football journalist. He observes the game and makes thoughtful and interesting points. He doesn't claim to know what is going on behind the scenes. Most football clubs avoid journalists like the plague.

 

[Fergie's Man]

I like that version of events better, it just makes us sound amateurish rather than like incompetent sharks.

However, it doesn't explain United's attempt to disown the lawyers. Why would we have to?
Why not just say the deal couldn't be completed due to obstacles from Athletic side?

This.

We are quick to believe what we want to hear.

 

[RedPhil1957]

We did identify targets. Two that we know of (Thiago and Fabregas) that would both have been fantastic signings. Unfortunately they didn't work out for us. I'll bet there were other players that we enquired about also.

Its unfair to judge Moyes on this transfer window, and we shouldn't underestimate the size of the transition that the club is going through right now. I'm happy that we signed a midfielder in the end, and I fully expect further arrivals in January.

there was even more that the media were identifying which we had no interest in what so ever; an example being De Rossi.

From what i have been told we had 3 main targets Fabregas, Fellaini and Baines - Barca's change of manager thwarted Fabregas and Everton played hard ball, partly because of the way we took moyes and partly promises made to Martinez about replacements, no selling club was making it easy this summer for example Wigan.

Only Fellaini forcing the issue enabled his transfer to go through in time.

 

[Skywarden]

I like that version of events better, it just makes us sound amateurish rather than like incompetent sharks.

However, it doesn't explain United's attempt to disown the lawyers. Why would we have to?
Why not just say the deal couldn't be completed due to obstacles from Athletic side?

Perhaps we want to give it another go and not alienate ourselves from AB. I agree, it's rather odd though.

 

[#07]

I like that version of events better, it just makes us sound amateurish rather than like incompetent sharks.

However, it doesn't explain United's attempt to disown the lawyers. Why would we have to?
Why not just say the deal couldn't be completed due to obstacles from Athletic side?

This.

 

[pocco]

I missed that bit. In what way did we try to distance ourselves from the lawyers?

 

[Red Hand Devil]

Whelan

Thanks for the link RHD. Martinez has a big gob.

Could you imagine sittin havin a pint with Whelan & him shitin on like Uncle Albert's war story's - only he'd be crapin on about the FA Cup injury etc. Fair enough Dave - that was shit what happened, but you've done even better than every footballer put together back in those days, so cheer the feck up!

Cant stand Martinez since he said all refs favour us because we're a bigger club, the fecker started a debate on BBC & Sky etc. Dickhead!