If the version of events being touted in the Spanish press isn't true, I'd expect us to clarify things at some point. If it is true, then we probably won't hear a peep.
Ander Herrera is a Manchester United Player!
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A player that all the world knew that we were going to sign, have no competition for him and in the end we payed 4m more than his release clause.
We'll have to wait and see what happens from here. If it was Bilbao being obstinate, there's no real reason for us not to pursue it whilst the window's closed and get him on January 1st. I think it's very unlikely, but there you go.
Why do people say we can still do a deal in Jan? we could do the deal now, just wouldn't go through until January..
Dave Whelan.Martinez a bit overrated. It was a great move to get Lukaku on loan though - he'll be even better there than he was at WBA.
You seem very confident of the facts of the case. How much money was it we had to pay exactly? What were the tax implications? What about this training fee that seemed to be due to his previous club?
It took Bayern weeks to work through this issue, hiring the same law firm.
I don't think so.
I do think we would be asked to pay the full amount though - the amount which is not at all clear, and which is clearly more than we want to pay. And rightly so I think.
If that part is true, it sounds to me that we don't want to ruin a chance of going back for him in the future. Subsequently, I don't think we'll hear much from our end and we'll gladly take the blame for this fiasco, as long as there is a chance of a deal happening in the future.
Not sure what to make of that, Skywarden. Why would we do that if it was Bilbao that fecked us about?
Not really in this situation; most of this window people have been pretty outspoken against the club's actions (probably justifiable) and accepting every pessimistic tweet as fact.
I am confident based upon our people saying that they never agreed with the 36m release clause, and were trying to negotiate it as opposed to meet it, as was reported we would. I'm just imagining that if we agreed to pay the release, we would have saved ourselves the time we spent trying to negotiate it. Whether we could or couldn't afford that is another thing, but Bilbao are not obligated to negotiate their clause - so we should just go and shop at Aldi in future if we are going to baulk at everything.
If indeed the same process took Bayern weeks, then they should be praised for having the foresight to begin the process more than a few fecking hours before the deadline. And if they indeed used the same lawyers as us, we shouldn't be painting them as imposters in the damn press either.
Woodward wouldn't know that. Hell, he may have gone on vacation after the Fellaini deal. "Job done!"
Strange that we decided to go for him so late. What were we doing all the whole before?
I suppose this also applies to people who seem keen to rest all blame on woody, Moyes, the club etc?
You simply do not appoint a top firm, on deadline day, to attend LFP's HQ to haggle over a price. Everything must be set in stone once you are there. The amount was clear to us, to Athletic, to Herrera and to the law firm appointed to conclude the deal.
Don't know but I wanted to throw it out there in any case.
One possibility could be that we were certain that Athletic would stick to their words and release the player upon receiving the player's B/O clause stipulated in his contract. Athletic who had been in this situation before played hardball during the last day to stall the deal and keep the player - for whatever reason.
A lot of speculation but there you go.
Edit: It's formatting day! \o/
36m + the development fee, the only question would have been if the 36 included the development fee (usually 5%) or not. Given that someone had hired a firm of lawyers, I think someone would have been able to answer that after about two minutes reading.
The Spanish press have been reporting that as Athletic's price since Friday.
There's a suggestion that we were still "negotiating" last night, though as Athletic weren't willing to negotiate I'm not sure what that means. We either showed up at La Liga ready to pay 36-38m Euros or we didn't.
AS say that in the end it was Athletic following a conversation with Herrera who pulled the plug, maybe by saying they wouldn't accept a payment made by United - but that was a couple of hours after the lawyers arrived at Liga HQ.
Martinez a bit overrated. It was a great move to get Lukaku on loan though - he'll be even better there than he was at WBA.
Roberta - the media darling. Everytime I see that gimp on tv, I get that feelin of what it must be like to find blood in your shite!
He'll do well there alright & he did well getting those deals in. If Lukaku Bukake has a good run he'll score goals & maybe get a permanent deal there. Great club for any footballer.
That lad on-loan from Barca is highly thought off (Gerard Deulofeu), so he's gonna be exciting to watch for the Toffee's. He's supposed to be the next great thing at Barca - in the Ronnie wing-wizardry mould by all accounts!
Have you read this about the Imposters / Sporting Lawmen from yesterdays bogey-deal for Herrera?
http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/...der-herrera-and-the-impostors-picking-through
It says on the text, that United were only willing to show they were doing deal if it actually went through. So, we "asked" a journo to say that we were never in with the lawyers, so it does not seem that we failed.
Kinda stupid if true.
dont have time to read the thead since last night, has any concrete info come out about this?
I am certain that most of the rumours doing the rounds are bullshit - fact is that these release clause deals seem very complicated and when Bilbao wouldnt agree to our terms, we didnt have enough time to sort all the technicalities to force the move through
I am certain that most of the rumours doing the rounds are bullshit - fact is that these release clause deals seem very complicated and when Bilbao wouldnt agree to our terms, we didnt have enough time to sort all the technicalities to force the move through
Sid Lowe's coming on Talksport soon enough, to give the low-down on what went wrong with yesterdays deal that never was...
Should be interesting, surely he wont bang that Imposters drum like everyone else continues to do?!
Should be interesting, surely he wont bang that Imposters drum like everyone else continues to do?!
Some stuff for you:
- $36m is a lot of money.
- The way the clauses work appears to be that the player has to pay the clause. That adds a complexity straight away as we can't pay the selling club a fee, we have to loan a lot of money to the player via lawyers and then get them to pay it.
- The tax implications are not clear but it appears to be the case that unless the selling club 'accepts' the release amount, the player has to buy out his contract as well, which would add a huge amount on top of the base amount. Looks like we may have had something in place to mitigate this, perhaps on the basis that Atletico were prepared to do Herrera a favour and not make him pay it, or only pay a slice of it.
- The development fee did not emerge until late in the day, adding a further reported $1.8m
You cannot possibly argue that the deal was a simple one to execute in 1-2 days!
Sid Lowe's coming on Talksport soon enough, to give the low-down on what went wrong with yesterdays deal that never was...
Should be interesting, surely he wont bang that Imposters drum like everyone else continues to do?!
He gave some info last night saying it was all a big misunderstanding due to a communication breakdown - suggested that the lawyers were representing Herrera rather than United, will be interesting to see what he says today.
Read this man (from Skywarden):
http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/...der-herrera-and-the-impostors-picking-through
And this (from Skywarden):
Depending on how much you want to believe this blogger, we were played by Bilbao.
http://enentredicho.wordpress.com/2013/09/03/que-ha-pasado-con-ander-herrera/
He wanted us, we wanted him and we were there to pay his clause.
1. We sent the law firm to pay his clause.
2. Athletic said "nope, we will not receive your money."
3. United had instructed the reps to pull the plug if issues occurred.
4. During the Martinez deal, Athletic said the same to Bayern, who then turn to governmental entities to put pressure on Athletic.
5. With so little time left of the window, United couldn't force the issue and pulled the plug to focus on Fellaini.
I hadn't heard Everton got him on loan. Why wouldn't Barca loan him to a La Liga club?
I can't access that site
. What does it say?The Barca kid is very highly rated, though I haven't seen him play for them yet? (unless he played at the weekend. Didn't watch their match).
Yeah, they did decent business, capturing McCarthy and Barry as well.
Should be another top 8 finish for them.
Yeah they got him months ago already.
The development fee was always there, it was just whether it was inside out outside the 36m.
I don't think it was an easy deal to do in a day. I'm sure everyone including Herrera, United and that law firm knew that. If we didn't want to pay the money, then that's fine - it's a big fee. But we could have told the club, the player and the lawyers that on Sunday (or earlier) - rather than let it get to the stage where Athletic and the player thought we were serious.
You know a lot of Everton supporters, do you?
I suppose, at best we can just hope that this is a deal that ran out of time, and can be revisited later.....
Reality can't be that handy though, probably somewhere in between that and worst case scenarios.
Well I can't be sure but it looks to me that we were at the very limit of what we were willing to pay when more liabilities were exposed, and we pulled out. Wisely, by the look of it.
I totally accept the argument that we should never have been trying to pull this off so late in the window. Poor planning.
I totally accept the argument that we should never have been trying to pull this off so late in the window. Poor planning.
You can see why it took those Laffajaffabaffa blokes a month or so to sort out the Martinez deal to Bayern - that deals red-taped like a red-tape festival!
Don't know how we thought we could have got this sorted in such a short period of time, because i'm sure those Lawmen have done deals like that many times & all had different time-frames!
Sid Lowe on talksport now. Lets hear this...
Lowe says Herrera will get the worst of it and compares his case to Llorente's. Blames United. Says we underestimated how complex the deal would be and rocked up thinking we could do it at the last minute. Says the feeling from Spain is that Man Utd made a real mess of this.
Perhaps after experiencing the Martinez deal, they thought they knew exactly what would happen, and could breeze through quickly this time.
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