[sport2793]

I've really liked Herrera's contribution to the team this year. He's allowed other players (namely Pogba) to play their brand of football without having to worry about defending the counterattack as much. My issue with Herrera in the past few matches is that the passes he misplaces tend to lead to chances for the opposing team. He also seems to misplace the simplest of passes at times (especially the back passes). It didn't cost us today but it's something to keep an eye on moving forward.

 

[Fracture90]

Bar that poor pass that Vardy intercepted, he was very good.

 

[Adisa]

Grew into the game. Needs to get back in form.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

Don't think he had the best game on the ball, played a bit too safe but he is certainly good enough for us.

 

[pseudo_canadian]

Much better in the second half.

 

[m1y2]

I've said it before but to me no one's game suffers more without Carrick than Ander's, he was all over the place at times today leaving Pogba with the #6 responsibilities.

maybe its because its a midfield two? players share responsibilities there. yeah sure both players do better offensively when someone like Carrick is behind them but without him we can add another attacking player like Mata or Mhki through the middle so you sacrifice a little bit of creativity from Pogba and Ander but put creativity elsewhere. I think Mou will like to lineup like this more and more because this will eventually allow us put someone like Griezmann in midfield.

 

[m1y2]

He is our most consistent player bar Valencia this season, today he played like few matches before, not his personal best but still good enough for Manchester United. His defensive contribution and hardwork is really important no matter how good he is on the ball, if everyone played at least like him every game 7/10 we would have at least 10 points more, and its the big games when he stands out more, so I have no worries about him shifting to his best in the derbies..

 

[Devil may care]

maybe its because its a midfield two? players share responsibilities there. yeah sure both players do better offensively when someone like Carrick is behind them but without him we can add another attacking player like Mata or Mhki through the middle so you sacrifice a little bit of creativity from Pogba and Ander but put creativity elsewhere. I think Mou will like to lineup like this more and more because this will eventually allow us put someone like Griezmann in midfield.

I think the problem is he's positionally mediocre and not good enough on the ball to be the one pushing ahead, always meaning Pogba has to come deep. A midfield 2 is a bad idea for Pogba in general, but if Jose tries to do it I think he'll need to find a proper holding player so that Pogba is the more advanced of the 2, the combination with Herrera isn't compatible enough as a long term thing.

 

[m1y2]

I think the problem is he's positionally mediocre and not good enough on the ball to be the one pushing ahead, always meaning Pogba has to come deep. A midfield 2 is a bad idea for Pogba in general, but if Jose tries to do it I think he'll need to find a proper holding player so that Pogba is the more advanced of the 2, the combination with Herrera isn't compatible enough as a long term thing.

hes not positionally mediocre, he wouldnt have the most interceptions in the league if he was mediocre.. Pogba coming deep at times is not a bad thing, he can also help to create from there by switching the play and dribbling past their pressing attacking player and bursting forward, he doesnt have that time and space to do that further forward, not that he s not good in advanced positions, just see some potential in him playing deep too...

and Herrera keeps it simple, sometimes too much but his first touch is great and overall technical ability, so I dont agree, just he doesnt dribble much because hes quite clearly asked to release the ball quickly and his first time passing is very good too and can often sqitch the play quicker than long pass which flies forever and takes player some time to take it down, and releaseing and finding that pass is also pretty lengthy, players need to be on the same wavelength though and if theres one player who controls the ball and takes a few touches than its slowing the game down. But herrera does what mourinho asks from him well

 

[Devil may care]

hes not positionally mediocre, he wouldnt have the most interceptions in the league if he was mediocre.. Pogba coming deep at times is not a bad thing, he can also help to create from there by switching the play and dribbling past their pressing attacking player and bursting forward, he doesnt have that time and space to do that further forward, not that he s not good in advanced positions, just see some potential in him playing deep too...

and Herrera keeps it simple, sometimes too much but his first touch is great and overall technical ability, so I dont agree, just he doesnt dribble much because hes quite clearly asked to release the ball quickly and his first time passing is very good too and can often sqitch the play quicker than long pass which flies forever and takes player some time to take it down, and releaseing and finding that pass is also pretty lengthy, players need to be on the same wavelength though and if theres one player who controls the ball and takes a few touches than its slowing the game down. But herrera does what mourinho asks from him well

He is positionally mediocre, interceptions have nothing to do with it as he gets his interceptions from pressing the ball, he hunts it and forces the mistake, it's different to playing as a proper DM and reading the play and making sure you are in the right position to track a midfield runner or cover your fullback, he's not good at that and if Pogba is in a 2 he's going to need someone next to him who is a proper holding player to give him license to at least play some of his natural game, which we'd already be constraining by forcing him into a 2 man midfield.

Herrera works hard and in a 3 he's very good as the workhorse that compliments the playmaker and the attacking CM, if we stick with a 3 man midfield next season then he'll continue on in that role. However if we move to this 2 man midfild idea (A mistake IMO) then Pogba will be paired with a proper holding midfielder and Herrera will become more of a sqaud player.

 

[Amar__]

it's different to playing as a proper DM and reading the play and making sure you are in the right position to track a midfield runner or cover your fullback,

And please name two top class DM in the world who play like that, let alone those who we can sign? Even during last couple of years it was literally Carrick and Busquets whose reading of the game was good enough to compensate for their lack of agression.

 

[Donut]

He is good at tackling and his defensive side of the game is fine. His passing is inconsistent and his constant backpassing is getting on my nerves. It is fine to do it when you get pressed, but he does it most of the time automatically, even if he has space and time. A lot of times there is a forward or sideway pass the better option, but he just drills it back. Van Gaal would be proud, but i dont like it at all. There is room for him to improve.

I agree with you completely. To Valencia or back to defence constitutes 90% of his passing. We can do better than Herrera, but the fans are oblivious to his faults because he has a cute face and tries hard.

 

[Philadelphian]

I agree with you completely. To Valencia or back to defence constitutes 90% of his passing. We can do better than Herrera, but the fans are oblivious to his faults because he has a cute face and tries hard.

Cleverley's passing with just a little more grit, and half the caf think he's nailed on to be in a team that returns us to glory

 

[Grunge]

I wish I knew exactly how Mourinho wants us to look as he builds this team up over the next few years and whether a player like Herrera has a place in it?

Jose has clearly stated on more than one occasion he want's us to play football that is creative, the way United are "expected" to play (by supporters like us); He is also desperate for this team to win trophy's. It's not all about looking pretty on the pitch, it's about getting to finals and winning championships long-term.

I get the impression he likes Herrera's tenacity; also a trait that as United supporters we have always appreciated.

The argument about his positional play is interesting because his style is all about disruption and wining the ball back for the style players in the team & according to the stats he's done that pretty fecking well. For that reason I don't think sitting "protecting" our back four (like Carrick does) is what will be asked of him.

In the long-term, we might (I hope) not need that role so much as our CB's get stronger as a unit & our FB situation improves. If that's the case, I think Ander will have a role to play in this squad for quite some time.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Thought he was poor today. Excellent earlier in the season, though. So we obviously shouldn't be discussing his long-term career based on this poor showing. He's a better player than what we saw against Leicester.

 

[Devil may care]

And please name two top class DM in the world who play like that, let alone those who we can sign? Even during last couple of years it was literally Carrick and Busquets whose reading of the game was good enough to compensate for their lack of agression.

Alonso, Motta, Javi Martinez, Weigl, Matic, Wanyama, Fabinho, Fernandinho, Xhaka, Barry, Gonalons, Bender, Casemiro and many others. I'm not talking about a deep lying playmaker here, I am talking about a DM holder who's sole job is to be disciplined and always be behind the other CM, It's not about each player being world class either, it's about making sure your midifeld pairing compliments each other, if you are putting Pogba in a 2 then he needs a disciplined holder with him who will give him a safety net, like right now everyone is orgasming over Kante, but watch how it works, he chases everything and Matic sits behind him and sweeps, Herrera is Kante-lite and thus needs the holder with him to be effective, Pogba is not a holder and it's not a pairing that is suited to play together in a 2.

 

[Devil may care]

I wish I knew exactly how Mourinho wants us to look as he builds this team up over the next few years and whether a player like Herrera has a place in it?

Jose has clearly stated on more than one occasion he want's us to play football that is creative, the way United are "expected" to play (by supporters like us); He is also desperate for this team to win trophy's. It's not all about looking pretty on the pitch, it's about getting to finals and winning championships long-term.

I get the impression he likes Herrera's tenacity; also a trait that as United supporters we have always appreciated.

The argument about his positional play is interesting because his style is all about disruption and wining the ball back for the style players in the team & according to the stats he's done that pretty fecking well. For that reason I don't think sitting "protecting" our back four (like Carrick does) is what will be asked of him.

In the long-term, we might (I hope) not need that role so much as our CB's get stronger as a unit & our FB situation improves. If that's the case, I think Ander will have a role to play in this squad for quite some time.

I am guessing part of this is aimed at me, I know exactly what Herrera's role is, it's the same one Kante has at Chelsea, but look how that works in tandem with Matic, you can't do that with Pogba. So it's like this, if Jose keeps with the 4-3-3 then yes, Herrera will be his workhorse CM in the trio, but if he moves to a 2 Pogba will need a partner that can do the job of protecting the back 4, no team plays without one of those, not even Barcelona.

 

[pocco]

Much better in the second half.

The way Leicester played out was hard for any of our players not to look good in that second half.

 

[Isotope]

I am guessing part of this is aimed at me, I know exactly what Herrera's role is, it's the same one Kante has at Chelsea, but look how that works in tandem with Matic, you can't do that with Pogba. So it's like this, if Jose keeps with the 4-3-3 then yes, Herrera will be his workhorse CM in the trio, but if he moves to a 2 Pogba will need a partner that can do the job of protecting the back 4, no team plays without one of those, not even Barcelona.

Agreed. If Mou goes with 4-2-... and one of the CM is Pogba, the other has to be a DM. Although his Euro performance and with United prove that he isn't suited as one of the CM in -2- though.

Even with 4-3-3, I think a dedicated DM would be more beneficial. Makelele at Madrid allowed them to field more attacking minded players in midfield.

 

[Devil may care]

Agreed. If Mou goes with 4-2-... and one of the CM is Pogba, the other has to be a DM. Although his Euro performance and with United prove that he isn't suited as one of the CM in -2- though.

Even with 4-3-3, I think a dedicated DM would be more beneficial. Makelele at Madrid allowed them to field more attacking minded players in midfield.

I wouldn't go to a 2 man midfield either, some are desperate for it, they want their #10/SS but I am not convinced it will benefit Pogba or the team balance overall. In fairness to Pogba though, when he plays for France in a 2 man midfield he's paired with Matuidi, who like Herrera runs around all over the place chasing the ball and pressing, meaning he had to play as the #6 and be the disciplined one, and like today he's been decent in some games, but it's like driving a Ferrari at 50mph.

 

[Dante]

I really like Herrera, but the future has to be a midfield trio of Pogba, Mkhitaryan + a DM. I think that's the only way to get the best out of the wingers playing off a CF like Zlatan. Pace, dribling and direct passing need to be priorities for the AM positions.

Herrera and one out of Pereira/Rooney/Fellaini should really be backups.

 

[Footyislife]

I think the issue is Pogba. He only excells with freedom to roam and create in a midfield 3. But as we saw today Mkhi is a lot better at that role. Which leaves Jose in a pickle. I think an asymmetrical formation with Mkhi and Pogba being able to fluidly switch positions would work best.

Pogba Zlatan Martial
Mkhi Carrick Herrera
Rojo Smalling Bailly Valencia

Long term: Carrick needs to be upgraded with a more mobile DM, and Martial with Griezmann. Martial eventually replaces Zlatan with Rashford as cover for the front 3 or used as the second striker when needed.

 

[Amar__]

Alonso, Motta, Javi Martinez, Weigl, Matic, Wanyama, Fabinho, Fernandinho, Xhaka, Barry, Gonalons, Bender, Casemiro and many others. I'm not talking about a deep lying playmaker here, I am talking about a DM holder who's sole job is to be disciplined and always be behind the other CM, It's not about each player being world class either, it's about making sure your midifeld pairing compliments each other, if you are putting Pogba in a 2 then he needs a disciplined holder with him who will give him a safety net, like right now everyone is orgasming over Kante, but watch how it works, he chases everything and Matic sits behind him and sweeps, Herrera is Kante-lite and thus needs the holder with him to be effective, Pogba is not a holder and it's not a pairing that is suited to play together in a 2.

I don't need a lesson what a real DM is, I asked for a top class DM and you named any DM you could remember. We are better with playing Herrera who is not a real DM than many from that list.

 

[roonster09]

He is our most consistent player bar Valencia this season, today he played like few matches before, not his personal best but still good enough for Manchester United. His defensive contribution and hardwork is really important no matter how good he is on the ball, if everyone played at least like him every game 7/10 we would have at least 10 points more, and its the big games when he stands out more, so I have no worries about him shifting to his best in the derbies..

Yeah, he is having very good season and can't understand why there is a divide on his position in the first team. His defensive contribution is immense, for example he makes more tackles, interceptions than Kante, also win more aerial duels. That should give better picture considering we all know how good Kante is at winning tackles.
Stats wise he wins almost all stats against Kante including chances created.

 

[itso 7]

I think the issue is Pogba. He only excells with freedom to roam and create in a midfield 3. But as we saw today Mkhi is a lot better at that role. Which leaves Jose in a pickle. I think an asymmetrical formation with Mkhi and Pogba being able to fluidly switch positions would work best.

Pogba Zlatan Martial
Mkhi Carrick Herrera
Rojo Smalling Bailly Valencia

Long term: Carrick needs to be upgraded with a more mobile DM, and Martial with Griezmann. Martial eventually replaces Zlatan with Rashford as cover for the front 3 or used as the second striker when needed.

That midfield four can be turned into a diamond which can morph into a 3-4-3 off the ball especially with the pace that Martial and Rashford can give playing alongside Ibra whilst Pogba would enjoy some freedom at LCM.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

As long as he is doing what Jose wants is all that matters, not what some on here think he should be doing. He is in the team because the manager trusts him to do the job asked of him. Doubt Ander cares what we think, good thing to.

 

[ti vu]

Still on habit of not being as good playing away games. His desperate foul is funnily blatant too.

Alonso, Motta, Javi Martinez, Weigl, Matic, Wanyama, Fabinho, Fernandinho, Xhaka, Barry, Gonalons, Bender, Casemiro and many others. I'm not talking about a deep lying playmaker here, I am talking about a DM holder who's sole job is to be disciplined and always be behind the other CM, It's not about each player being world class either, it's about making sure your midifeld pairing compliments each other, if you are putting Pogba in a 2 then he needs a disciplined holder with him who will give him a safety net, like right now everyone is orgasming over Kante, but watch how it works, he chases everything and Matic sits behind him and sweeps, Herrera is Kante-lite and thus needs the holder with him to be effective, Pogba is not a holder and it's not a pairing that is suited to play together in a 2.

I believe Mourinho is trying box to box midfield, and a defensive full back who often stay back making it 3 at the back, to reduce the need for a holder specialist.

 

[Devil may care]

I don't need a lesson what a real DM is, I asked for a top class DM and you named any DM you could remember. We are better with playing Herrera who is not a real DM than many from that list.

No, I named top class DM's that all play in top leagues for top 6 teams, all of whom would be a better fit with Pogba in a 2 man midfield.

 

[roonster09]

No, I named top class DM's that all play in top leagues for top 6 teams, all of whom would be a better fit with Pogb in a 2 man midfield.

Alonso, Motta, Javi Martinez can't cover enough distance to play in 2 man midfield, especially with Pogba who hardly tracks the runners from midfield.

Barry is laughable choice, looks like you slipped his name just for lols.

 

[Devil may care]

Alonso, Motta, Javi Martinez can't cover enough distance to play in 2 man midfield, especially with Pogba who hardly tracks the runners from midfield.

Barry is laughable choice, looks like you slipped his name just for lols.

They don't need to cover distance, it's not a road race, the job with Pogba is to provide a positional safety net behind him to allow him to play his game, the fact is Pogba in a 2 is a shite idea no matter who you put wih him, but if it's done you at least need someone with the positional nous and disicpline to sit behind him, not a CM who will always be ahead of him chasing after the ball, and no Barry wasn't a joke, he's a player that has executed that role well for a number of years in the PL.

 

[roonster09]

They don't need to cover distance, it's not a road race, the job with Pogba is to provide a positional safety net behind him to allow him to play his game, the fact is Pogba in a 2 is a shite idea no matter who you put wih him, but if it's done you at least need someone with the positional nous and disicpline to sit behind him, not a CM who will always be ahead of him chasing after the ball, and no Barry wasn't a joke, he's a player that has executed that role well for a number of years in the PL.

Midfielders have to cover distance. It's not a road race but that doesn't mean it's a walking game either. Barry is poor no matter how you put it, especially the current one who is slower than loaded truck.

Also player positions are not static, they don't stick in their position all the time. Herrera was deeper player most of the times and when he goes forward Pogba should be covering his position. That's how every midfield combination works.

 

[Amar__]

No, I named top class DM's that all play in top leagues for top 6 teams, all of whom would be a better fit with Pogba in a 2 man midfield.

You are ridiculous if you think half of those would be better fit than Herrera in two man midfield just because they are natural defensive midfielders.

 

[m1y2]

He is positionally mediocre, interceptions have nothing to do with it as he gets his interceptions from pressing the ball, he hunts it and forces the mistake, it's different to playing as a proper DM and reading the play and making sure you are in the right position to track a midfield runner or cover your fullback, he's not good at that and if Pogba is in a 2 he's going to need someone next to him who is a proper holding player to give him license to at least play some of his natural game, which we'd already be constraining by forcing him into a 2 man midfield.

Herrera works hard and in a 3 he's very good as the workhorse that compliments the playmaker and the attacking CM, if we stick with a 3 man midfield next season then he'll continue on in that role. However if we move to this 2 man midfild idea (A mistake IMO) then Pogba will be paired with a proper holding midfielder and Herrera will become more of a sqaud player.

midfield two often works as aunit of two midfielders doing the same thing, Herrera may not be the best holder but his positioning at winning balls is exellent so not sure what are you trying to say here, it's Pogba who needs to get better to be able to play in midfield two certainly not Herrera, let alone that Mourinho is certainly counting with some of the deficiances this midfield can bring and playing the third midfielder in front of them who also works hard, that's why Mhkytaryan will be used there more than Mata or Rooney as their movement is simply not good enough for Mourinho no10/third attacking midfielder. Herrera is also a new to the role and over last year he couldn't adjust more, Pogba is still trying to find his feet.

I am sure Ander can only get better there over time as he's very intelligent, he will need good partners there though, Pogba is given as he has immense potential but it will take time to settle but it's him who struggles to fulfill the instructions or be as effective as Herrera..

 

[Jib]

Very poor again. The worst player on the pitch by far.

 

[Rozay]

I'm a big fan of his, and really appreciate the dirty work he does for the team. His attitude is generally excellent too.

That said, I've recently been coming round to the idea at we can certainly do better. It's not an urgent matter, but we could do with someone with a bit more quality on the ball, in terms of passing (beyond the easy five yard ones) and shooting.

That person may well be Andreas Pereira in my opinion. He's a tough little bastard and if Jose can make him into one of those who will run through brick walls for him, he certainly has more quality than Ander.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Very poor again. The worst player on the pitch by far.

Get lost. I think you would find a few Leicester players, in fact all of them were worse and Rashford was awful again. Don't make statements to just wind people up. His pass rate was 89%, he made more passes than anyone on the pitch and his tackling and interceptions were the best as well. Another one for my ignore list. I don't mind people disagreeing with me, but you always come out with this one line retort.

 

[Virgil]

I really like Herrera, but the future has to be a midfield trio of Pogba, Mkhitaryan + a DM. I think that's the only way to get the best out of the wingers playing off a CF like Zlatan. Pace, dribling and direct passing need to be priorities for the AM positions.

Herrera and one out of Pereira/Rooney/Fellaini should really be backups.

Agree entirely with these sentiments except for Rooney/Fellaini being backups. I do hope that both of these move to pastures new in the summer. I also like Herrera but in truth if we are going to play with a 3 in midfield with one being a DM then personally I think the other two have to chip in with goals. We already suffer when Carrick and Herrera play in the same team as neither of them seem able to find the net. Given that Carrick is our DM thats probably forgivable in his case. But to have two non scoring midfielders is IMHO a luxury we cannot afford.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Agree entirely with these sentiments except for Rooney/Fellaini being backups. I do hope that both of these move to pastures new in the summer. I also like Herrera but in truth if we are going to play with a 3 in midfield with one being a DM then personally I think the other two have to chip in with goals. We already suffer when Carrick and Herrera play in the same team as neither of them seem able to find the net. Given that Carrick is our DM thats probably forgivable in his case. But to have two non scoring midfielders is IMHO folly.

Herrera can score goals, but for some reason he is not being encouraged to burst into the box like before. If we get a good Carrick replacement or make sure the CB pairing is top notch, we might not need someone who has to sit in front of them and can go more all out attack.

 

[11101]

As long as he is doing what Jose wants is all that matters, not what some on here think he should be doing. He is in the team because the manager trusts him to do the job asked of him. Doubt Ander cares what we think, good thing to.

Exactly. He is on the pitch to cover the ground the others either can't or won't. So long as he is in the way of the opposition, intercepting their passes and making a nuisance of himself, all the while being rock solid on the ball, he will be a valuable spot in the starting lineup.

 

[AgentP]

I'm a big fan of his, and really appreciate the dirty work he does for the team. His attitude is generally excellent too.

That said, I've recently been coming round to the idea at we can certainly do better. It's not an urgent matter, but we could do with someone with a bit more quality on the ball, in terms of passing (beyond the easy five yard ones) and shooting.

That person may well be Andreas Pereira in my opinion. He's a tough little bastard and if Jose can make him into one of those who will run through brick walls for him, he certainly has more quality than Ander.

Yes, his passing and shooting both leave a lot to be desired. He seemed to have a good shot on him during his first season here but I can't see any signs of that now. But passing is where he really needs to improve. He can make the rare assist now and then but overall he is too sloppy and the weight of his passes are also way off the mark. The good thing about him is he still keeps trying to play vertical passes instead of taking the easy way out by passing sideways like Fellaini. His energy and defensive work rate is what makes him a good player for us.

I don't think Andreas can match Herrera's work rate. I can't see him as that kind of player. He is a way better passer and dribbler but more suited higher up the pitch. A player like Vidal and Bakayoko is better suited to Herrera's role.