I think the biggest change will be what we do with the ball. As G Nev put it, United always had 'nice' possession with the ball, but the problem was we used to just knock it about waiting for somebody to grab it and do something. I think it's why Januzaj shined so much because he was able to pick up the ball and beat men when the rest of the team were perfectly happy with playing it around but not actually doing anything.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
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I think the biggest change will be what we do with the ball. As G Nev put it, United always had 'nice' possession with the ball, but the problem was we used to just knock it about waiting for somebody to grab it and do something. I think it's why Januzaj shined so much because he was able to pick up the ball and beat men when the rest of the team were perfectly happy with playing it around but not actually doing anything.
I'm worried because I haven't seen him and he seems to be rated as quite average. Honestly hadn't heard of him before last year. Hope he really is as good as United think he is.
He'll take to the league like a duck to water. I think some are underrating this lad, he's an extremely talented and well rounded player. His passing and ability in tight spaces are his best attributes. Not so long ago I read someone thinking he could be our keane, well, he's about twice as good as keane was on the ball. Can't wait for him to get started, will IMO finish the league season as one of the best CM's in the league.
Don't worry mate, he'll be great for us. He's flown a bit under the rader because the spanish league is based almost entirely on two teams(well till recently). Quality players of other teams don't get their dues in terms of hype. Look at cazorla who flew under the radar for so long and yet when he went to arsenal was instantly one of their best players.
He'll be your typical United player I think. You won't see him competing for Ballon D'ors but what you will see is an incredibly hard working and talented player giving his all for United. I see him as Fletch v2. An incredibly important member of the X11 who wont ever have the limelight.
My favourite type of player in other words.
He's got a much higher potential ceiling than Fletcher ever had.
He will look so shit when he is playing next to fellaini, not because Fellaini would outclass him but because Fellaini makes it so difficult for his fellow midfield, he doesnt have any positional intelligence, he often walks in the wrong places and doesnt make himself available at the right times, hope we sign Vidal to prevent this.
So you think he can become one of the best midfielders in the world, Fletcher almost reached a world class level, he was not flair and certainly not spectaculair but for a while he was just very amazing. If you say he has a much higher ceiling that means he will become more than only world class, but like the best midfielder there is.
Vidal wouldn't solve that issue though.
His natural game and Herrera's natural game are similar. If we played them both we would need a further player behind them to make it work. Whether that's Carrick, Fellaini or someone else is obviously of no matter if we don't sign Vidal. Either way they won't compliment each other despite being extremely talented, think Lampard and Gerrard.
In any case, can't wait to see Herrera play, less enthusiastic for all the commentators that are gonna call him Herrara.
Just realised a Fellaini and Herrera midfield could be called Ferrari. Only it'll likely be one like this:
Ando could drive it!
Vidal wouldn't solve that issue though.
His natural game and Herrera's natural game are similar. If we played them both we would need a further player behind them to make it work. Whether that's Carrick, Fellaini or someone else is obviously of no matter if we don't sign Vidal. Either way they won't compliment each other despite being extremely talented, think Lampard and Gerrard.
In any case, can't wait to see Herrera play, less enthusiastic for all the commentators that are gonna call him Herrara.
Just realised a Fellaini and Herrera midfield could be called Ferrari. Only it'll likely be one like this:
Bang on mate. The only partnership I saw working for definate was Herrera and Carrick, with Carrick occupying the Scholes role and dictating the tempo and play. For some reason, many believe Herrera will be the one who will control all our play and that Vidal will be the perfect partner for him?? Are there any top teams who are successful with a midfield consisting of two box to box players and no holding midfielder? I can't think of any.
I don't see the Gerrard/Lampard comparison at all. Gerrard and Lampard were 2 natural attacking midfielders shoehorned into midfield together. Herrera and Vidal are 2 center midfielders who would be playing in their natural positions. There is no comparison.
The premier league champions. Arsenal are looking to do the same with Ramsey and Khedira.
Exactly. People underestimate how good defensively both of these players (Ander and Vidal) are.
At his peak Gerrard was Box to Box and pretty good defensively. Lampard was more a attacking mid best in a 3. Scholes with either didn't work that well either and he was Box to Box on the attacking side at United with Keane behind as well.
Vidal - Herrera would be like 2 Gerrard type players together though so it could work or Herrera can play from deeper as he did for Bielsa but not sure that would get best out either individually personally plus it would require immediate understanding between the 2 which remains to be seen. Ofcourse anyway, well worth the risk as at worst they will only have problems in the bigger games more and we can put a DM in behind.
But Yaya is not your typical box to box player. More often he will instigate attacks and let the other take over. His trademark runs are far and few between. Even Fernandinho is not a typical box to box player.
Arsenal on the otherhand employ Arteta in the play maker role usually partnered by a Wilshere or Flammini. What they will do next season I do not know.
Another good point. One would see the ball more than the other when going forward basically relegating the other to act as a DM. Would it not be better to employ someone like Carrick and give the other player freedom to get forward whenever he wants to? Like Fernandinho does at City with Yaya.
Why are you allowed to create ambiguities about typical and atypical box-to-box players? A pairing of Yaya and Fernandinho is far more akin to Ander and Vidal than the lazy Lampard and Gerrard comparisons made.
In Yaya - Fernandinho Yaya goes attacking box to box while Fernandinho sits more. Khedira - Ramsey would be interesting if it happens but even in that Khedira is more a defensive box to box player, while Ramsey is attacking.
They can differentiate roles within the game. You're not restricted to simply play one box to box and one holding midfielder, they're both more than capable of doing both.
What is a 'defensive box-to-box player'? Again with the ambiguities. It's almost as if you people don't want us to sign Vidal to play alongside Herrera.
Before the rise of both Rakitic and Koke, he was the best midfielder outside of the traditional top 2 La Liga teams.
I'd imagine both Herrera and Vidal are disciplined enough to sit in a defensive role when the other bombs forward. Vidal especially.
I already said above it's well worth the risk to Sign Vidal and explained above. Anyway Defensive Box to Box player - Keane. Attacking Box to Box player - Scholes in his earlier days. Right now both Herrera and VIdal are at their best in the Scholes type of role.
Keane and Scholes were box to box when they played as a pairing. But there was a clear distinction that Keane was the defensive of the 2, even though both did pretty much everything almost.
Gerrard Lampard was even more imbalanced because Lampard was at his best almost as a Support Striker and limited when playing deeper. So pairing him with Gerrard was bit like pairing Rooney and Vidal as a 2.
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But then what is the point in using both? Vidal is the better player, no? What is the point of restricting him to allow Herrera to get forward and vice versa? Surely it would make more sense to partner Vidal/Herrera with someone who would allow them to play their game without hindering their own?
Vidal plays mainly with Pirlo and Pogba. They always have that holding anchor behind them which allows them to play a free game, getting forward and defending. The only way I can see it being solid enough is in a 3 man midfield but then that would require us to play with quick forwards who are willing to make off the ball runs.
This is where i disagree a bit with you, unless we can get a top holding mid to give best balance, Herrera playing bit deeper and Vidal more forward or Vice Versa would be better than most anyway. One would have to sacrifice a bit though in a attacking sense probably Herrera and our defense will have to up it's game but they'd still be worth it and against top opposition we can always adapt tactically if needed with a Proper 6 in Carrick coming in.
You're limiting both players though if you tell one to sit whilst the other goes.
Yaya Toure is not a box to box player, it's either one or the other with him.
I agree, the partnership would be 10x better than what we have at the moment because both players are very good all rounders but if I'm being 100% honest, I'd prefer... *pause for dramatic effect* for us to spend the £40 or so million on a holding mid to partner Herrera. If we get Vidal I'll be incredibly happy as he is easily top 3. I guess it all comes down to what LVG wants and the players that are available.
Don't worry, he's class. Not an average player at all. Barca were in for him plenty of times but never bid the release clause, which is why he stayed at Bilbao for so long. Definitely was one of the best midfielder outside of barca and Madrid last season, and barca being interested should be enough proof that he's more then good enough for us.
I feel like a lot of people are underrating how big of an impact he will make next season.
I think people are under the guise that they aren't good defensively because they both played with a holding midfielder but that's assuming that neither of them have any defensive nous of their own.
Didn't Gerrard play wide in his prime? His best season was when he played off the front, behind Torres. I don't pay close attention to Liverpool so I could be very wrong but from what I've seen of Gerrard through the years, he's all blood and thunder but little defensive intelligence, meaning if he played in midfield, it needed to be with a holder rather than a Lampard-type. I don't believe that to be true for Herrera and Vidal.
And Lampard was always best peeling off the target man in Drogba, making use of his brilliant shooting technique and his prowess in the final third. He had an engine on him, as did Gerrard, but neither of these players were pure mobile enforcers who would do as much in their tackles and timely interceptions as they would in their final pass or attempt to score.
Don't think you'd find consensus on that at all, though I mostly only watch the 6 or 7 teams you'd expect.
Lots of similar level candidates the last 2-3 seasons in Javi Martinez, Illarramendi (at Sociedad), Iturraspe, Verdu, Bruno Soriano, Benat (at Betis), Trashorras (stats are incredible, have personally not seen much, and his Club president claimed he was better than Xabi Alonso, which is probably nonsense, but still) and whichever Valencia CM was in form at the time (Banega, then Costa then Parejo). The italicized dudes even got called up to the Spanish team on more than one occasion.
It's Spain. They have a lot of good CM's. Herrera has all the tools to distinguish himself and become a full international, and Van Gaal and the paucity of competition here means he has a great opportunity to do it.
You are confusing defensive workrate and intelligence required when you play box to box with a holding mid behind you in a 3 as a 8 or as a 10 with defensive positioning as a 6 i think. Gerrard at his peak and Vidal right now are pretty similar players actually barring some differences ofcourse. Both Did/do more than enough defensively for the attacking output they produce/produced in their roles but both are best with a defensive/deeper player in behind giving them freedom. Either 1 or 2.
Keane and Gerrard would have worked very well probably just like Keane and Scholes did. Herrera and Vidal would be somewhat like pairing the older versions of Scholes and Gerrard though which would be pretty good against most teams as well given their quality but somewhat imbalanced. Still as i said above Herrera would have to play slightly deeper which he can anwyay, as i don't even remember when was the last time if ever Vidal played a deeper role.
Martinez ofcourse was really good, but I think over a 3-4 year period since he broke through Herrera has probably been the most consistent of those players except him. Rest have had 1/2 good seasons or moved on or just had their breakthrough sort of season. He's in that 2nd tier with the most potential to go into the first pretty much given his age as well.
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Apart from Martinez, I think Herrera was rated higher then pretty much all of them. There's a reason Barca were after him for so long but didn't want to do the release clause method because of how messy the whole situation is. Here's what a spanish journo said about him when he left:
New bromance?
New bromance?
Feck sake, that Ashley Young. Panicking for his future now he's strategically trying to worm his way into LvG's plans by becoming besties with our new signings!
Hands off Ashley. Mata's got this 1!
New bromance?
Has anyone else noticed that Ashley isn't even sitting down properly?
I'm not sure why it bothers me so much, but it does.
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