If Amorim think Brunos best position is in the centre mid he should get glasses. Bruno should spend as little time as possible in our own half. His "ability" to loose the ball is dangerous. He needs to play behind the striker. Mainoo on the other hand seems a great fit in the centre mid.
Amorim's Rebuild
- Thread starter RDCR07
- Start date
Good post, and maybe only Maz is good enough as wing back. The rest are not good enough.
Some harsh truths in here. Overspending on mediocre players set us back 3-4 years. Can we even reach the CL next 3 years?
Amorin prefers actual wingers in the wide fullback positions in his system than defenders. A wingback like frimpong maybe the right type of player as he is so attack minded.
He also likes one of the fullbacks to be inverted.
I don't agree that Bruno isn't good in our own half - on the contrary, he often does well there, even when playing as a #10. And this system seems to require technical ability in confined spaces that Mainoo has more than Bruno.
Several reports? There are several reports every year about how we'll spend only 20m, 50m, 100m etc. and then we somehow always go on to spend big every summer. The only two exceptions in the post-Ferguson era were 2018 and 2020, and the latter probably doesn't happen without Covid. The same things were being said before last summer as well, and yet we signed 5 players for £182 million combined.
The lack of CL football isn't as much of a financial tragedy as it is made out, every time we miss out on it, especially if we get into the Europa League.
Also, this summer, we sold a lot of players for "pure profit" and recouped good money for them:
-Greenwood £26.6m - homegrown player so pure profit
-McTominay £25.7m - homegrown player so pure profit
-Wan-Bissaka £15m - I think his transfer fee didn't count in the PSR cycle anymore as 5 years passed, so his sale also helped our PSR situation
-Hannibal, Kambwala, Carreras, Pellistri and VdB were also small helps for our PSR
-Varane (£340k/w) and Martial (£250k/w) off the wage bill after their contracts expired
Next season, it's likely that several players from this group also leave either on a free or we sell them if we can, if their contracts aren't expiring yet: Casemiro (£350k/w), Antony (£200k/w), Maguire (£190k/w), Sancho (£195k/w), Eriksen (£150k/w), Lindelöf (£120k/w), Evans (£65k/w), Heaton (£45k/w)
Our wage bill in the last 24 months has been cut by more than 50% at this point and last summer our net spend wasn't very high, coupled with the homegrown sales that help PSR. I'd actually argue this was done with next summer already in mind as I suspect we will want to spend more then, compared to last summer.
Any continued external investment made by Ratcliffe will also help our situation, like the ones he already made.
Also, for the record, I don't want neither Gyökeres or Kvaratskhelia at United, at all, and by spending a lot of money, I didn't mean signing several players for 80-100m or even more. But we will spend at least 150 million again on new players, and it will probably be above 200m really.
I hope you don't think any player will be cheap tbf, unless it's a unusual situation like the De Ligt and Mazraoui deals were, or they have a release clause like Zirkzee did, etc.
Any promising player with a high floor and ceiling will be expensive, if the selling club doesn't want to or have to sell them.
Dibling would cost at least 40m. I reckon we will buy Branthwaite for £55-60m as well. That's already over 100 million on two players, and at least £200k/w wages combined on them as well.
If we somehow get Davies, he'll be on £250k/week or possible more.
We can only get Carreras back cheaply because we inserted a buy-back clause into his contract.
Bournemouth will probably want at least 40m for Kerkez.
Even the "cheapest" PL talents that are good enough for a top 6 side like Kerkez and Dibling will cost over 80m combined, if we'd like to sign both of them, and that might be an optimistic take as well.
Free agents will demand a sign-on bonus, on top of their increased wages compared to what they earned at their previous club.
I'm curious, what kind of financial outlay are you expecting from United next summer on new players, if you think we barely have any money to spend, but will still sign "free agents and promising young talents"?
As a 10 you need to play with your back to goal and in tight spaces, not Bruno's strongest qualities and what Amorim already mentioned. In CM, he'll get more time and space on the ball and have more capability to play long balls, can dictate the play with his passing in a way the others can't.
Given we are playing a 343, there's an extra CB in the team behind the midfield compared to normal so it's not as open defensively too.
Also ability to lose the ball... Well against Ipswich he had 92% passing and 88% vs Bodo. Seems like you just have to tell him not to force it so much and he can adjust. Crazy what some possession based coaching does.
And yet people are surprised every time a new managers first action isnt to dump our most creative player
There’s a lot of talk about wing backs and a striker, but it’s going to be a couple of midfielders at the very top of Amorim’s Christmas list.
Casemiro is probably more exposed in this set up than he was under Ten Hag.
Ugarte and Mainoo are fine. Bruno is an option. Other than that we’re short.
Casemiro is probably more exposed in this set up than he was under Ten Hag.
Ugarte and Mainoo are fine. Bruno is an option. Other than that we’re short.
The Phoenix rises
As much as Zirkzee has been really poor - maybe he deserves a bit more than 3.5 months before we decide to sell him ? In a proper system - he looked a decent player
I think it all depends on whether or not he's got it in him to stay and fight. There's a lot of rumours already that he fancies moving back to Italy.
Which one? There are two from the list who performed today.
Is the Davies people keep quoting for LWB the one at Ipswich? Doesn’t look that great at defending if so, would be wary of buying.
Davis is at Ipswich. Davies is at Bayern.
I can’t see how we have a lot of money so are going to have to box clever and maybe look at selling some assets to aid the rebuild.
It’s pointless naming Rashford and Anthony etc. as there is no market for them.
I might be in a minirity but I’d look to potentially move Dalot on as I don’t see him capable of playing the CB role like Mazraoui. If we could get some decent money for him it would allow us to fill a more pressing position.
It’s pointless naming Rashford and Anthony etc. as there is no market for them.
I might be in a minirity but I’d look to potentially move Dalot on as I don’t see him capable of playing the CB role like Mazraoui. If we could get some decent money for him it would allow us to fill a more pressing position.
I agree on Dalot. I like him a lot but I don't think he fits any of the new positions.
Dalot’s price has been quoted at €50m. I’d bite someone’s handoff for that amount.
Madrid appears to be interested if they can't get TAA.
He can be a RWB/LWB backup. We need a quality LWB starter and we are sorted in these positions. I would rathe ship Malacia and keep Dalot. It will be an unpopular opinion but I would sell Luke Shaw too (and it hurts me to say it). He could gave been an absolute United legend but... his injury record is....what it is. He missed 1511 days here that is like 4 years, 137 days per season. You have to include that a player loses fitness and sometimes form after a lon injury so the numbers of matches he is available and fully fit to give 100% of his potential are even lower. I could do better in a less intensive league like Spain or Italy. He just occupies a spot for someone who could be available more. And I like him a lot.
Sky Germany is linkind our Antoni Milambo with you.
Would be kind of funny if he buys more Eredivisie players...
Would be kind of funny if he buys more Eredivisie players...
We got to go for Dibling. He's insane.
Duane Dibling.
With Luke Shaw injured again we absolutely need a LWB in January
Do we need to add Garnacho to this list? Cash in while he is young and has potential?
What I find encouraging is that it is becoming obvious which players we need to really focus on building the squad around.
Based off the first few games you can clearly see the following players will have a good time under Amorim:
Onana
Yoro
De Ligt
Mazroaui
Ugarte
Mainoo
Amad
Bruno
I also think the likes of Mount and Dalot have shown their versatility makes them good squad players.
Our biggest glaring weaknesses include our transitional play down the left wing, and scoring goals.
If we can make three signings for the following positions during the summer transfer window, we could see rapid improvements in our league positioning:
1. LWB
2. ST
3. CM
I really wish Holjund can improve this season, if we can dictate some funds towards signing a good deputy to Martinez at LCB, instead of another high profile striker, then we could really become a dangerous team.
Based off the first few games you can clearly see the following players will have a good time under Amorim:
Onana
Yoro
De Ligt
Mazroaui
Ugarte
Mainoo
Amad
Bruno
I also think the likes of Mount and Dalot have shown their versatility makes them good squad players.
Our biggest glaring weaknesses include our transitional play down the left wing, and scoring goals.
If we can make three signings for the following positions during the summer transfer window, we could see rapid improvements in our league positioning:
1. LWB
2. ST
3. CM
I really wish Holjund can improve this season, if we can dictate some funds towards signing a good deputy to Martinez at LCB, instead of another high profile striker, then we could really become a dangerous team.
It’s difficult at present to know who to get in the summer as we don’t know who will improve under Amorim just yet. But a starting LWB is evident for starters. A CB would be needed as Evans, Shaw and Lindelof should go, which leaves us with 5 CBs - Martinez, De Ligt, Yoro, Mazraoui & Slab. Think 6 is enough. Then replacements for Casemiro & Eriksen need to come in, which makes 4 new players. Also not sure if youth lads might step up as Amorim likes to do that, but it’ll take time to see any integrated. It’s a bit like trying to pick the starting 11 each game, complicated.
You mean Tyler Dibling?
It's actually sad how many new players we need...
We need one or two CM/DMs. One for rotating with Mainoo and one for rotating with Ugarte. Casemiro is done and Bruno should just play as a CAM.
We need one or two RWBs(unless Mazraoui can play well there, in an attacking sense or if Dalot suddenly starts being a good player) because Amad needs to be pushed upfield as one of the CAMs.
We need a new LCB, to rotate with Licha and replace Shaw who's constantly injured.
We also need a LWB(Dalot has been awful and atm there's no real sign of that turning). Malacia might turn good, if he can stay injury free. But still need a new and better one.
And we need a new CAM to replace Mount, Rashford and probably Garnacho who doesn't seem to suit this system. Finally we also need a new CF.
We need one or two CM/DMs. One for rotating with Mainoo and one for rotating with Ugarte. Casemiro is done and Bruno should just play as a CAM.
We need one or two RWBs(unless Mazraoui can play well there, in an attacking sense or if Dalot suddenly starts being a good player) because Amad needs to be pushed upfield as one of the CAMs.
We need a new LCB, to rotate with Licha and replace Shaw who's constantly injured.
We also need a LWB(Dalot has been awful and atm there's no real sign of that turning). Malacia might turn good, if he can stay injury free. But still need a new and better one.
And we need a new CAM to replace Mount, Rashford and probably Garnacho who doesn't seem to suit this system. Finally we also need a new CF.
I think fans should chill a bit, talking about players not suiting Ruben’s system. It’s been 4 games with hardly any training, give him a chance, he’s not a miracle worker. It took Pep 12 months to get City going and he had everything he needed already in place.
Let’s wait atleast until the end of the season, there are going to be ups and downs but let’s wait and evaluate properly at the end of the year. By then we will have a good idea of which players are suitable for Ruben’s squad.
Let’s wait atleast until the end of the season, there are going to be ups and downs but let’s wait and evaluate properly at the end of the year. By then we will have a good idea of which players are suitable for Ruben’s squad.
It’s a lot of work, and anyone suggesting otherwise is kidding themselves. We need to be clinical over these next two windows and be really smart with our transfers, in terms of both in and out goings. For example, if opportunities like moving Dalot on for €50m come along then we need to do it.
For incomings, in January I’d go and snap up Patrick Dorgu at Lecce. A young powerful LWB by trade who this season has also been flourishing more as a RW, which makes me feel like he would be able to play as either a LWB or RWB in this system. Under Amorim he could become a monster.
That is probably the only signing to make in Jan, but come summer, I’d also be looking at:
- Leif Davis as a LWB on a free
- Geo Quenda as a top young prospect at RW/RWB
- Diomande or Scalvini at CB/RCB
- Mika Faye at Rennes at LCB
- Angel Gomes as a squad option to replace Eriksen and help with homegrown quota
- a young DM like Baleba, Wharton or Andre at Wolves
- either a new ST or AM, depending on how the frontline develops under Amorim the rest of the season
This is all heavily dependent on outgoings, (which I won’t bother listing), for example if we can’t ship out Casemiro, we may need to hold off another year for the young DM. If we can’t move on one of our forward players, there may not be room for another AM/ST. But if we can get the outgoings done right then I see no reason why we can’t make 6 or 7 additions to compliment Amorims system better.
I think the poster is making an old Red Dwarf reference
LWB, in form striker, a baller CM who can control the ball under duress, CB.
For me the order of priority is:
1. LWB, purely because we don't have anyone who can actually play that role at present. I like the options we've Bern linked with so far, hopefully we can do this without breaking the bank, because...
2. CM, is only marginally below LWB on the list. Both Erikson and Casemiro will go at the end of the season, which leaves us with Ugarte, Mainoo, and Bruno at a stretch who can play in the midfield 2, and of those three, only Ugarte is really suited to the role. We need a world class controlling midfielder who can provide penetrative passing from deep, which is going to cost us 60-70mil minimum, and potentially up to 100mil. We could honestly use two in this position, but I'd prioritise one world-class OT potentially world-class option.
3. ST. A little lower down the list because we do currently have options, but the fact is that a world class striker would transform us. Gyokeres is the obvious option here, but I think an option that's gone massively under the radar is Victor Oshimen. Napoli need to sell and have kicked the can down the road with the loan to Galatasaray, which also conveniently reduces his market value by running down his contract a year. If we can't get the former, I'd go all-out for the latter.
Any other incomings for me are entirely dependent on who we sell, and are not urgent.
1. LWB, purely because we don't have anyone who can actually play that role at present. I like the options we've Bern linked with so far, hopefully we can do this without breaking the bank, because...
2. CM, is only marginally below LWB on the list. Both Erikson and Casemiro will go at the end of the season, which leaves us with Ugarte, Mainoo, and Bruno at a stretch who can play in the midfield 2, and of those three, only Ugarte is really suited to the role. We need a world class controlling midfielder who can provide penetrative passing from deep, which is going to cost us 60-70mil minimum, and potentially up to 100mil. We could honestly use two in this position, but I'd prioritise one world-class OT potentially world-class option.
3. ST. A little lower down the list because we do currently have options, but the fact is that a world class striker would transform us. Gyokeres is the obvious option here, but I think an option that's gone massively under the radar is Victor Oshimen. Napoli need to sell and have kicked the can down the road with the loan to Galatasaray, which also conveniently reduces his market value by running down his contract a year. If we can't get the former, I'd go all-out for the latter.
Any other incomings for me are entirely dependent on who we sell, and are not urgent.
Amorin may be an incredible coach but it’s very typical of United’s decision makers to go with a coach that plays a completely different system to last. That only means a major transition period and loads of money needs spending on new players.
Why couldn’t they go for a manager that played a similar system to Ten Hag? Half our best players don’t fit Amorim’s system. Look at the way Slot came into Liverpool. No major system changes and they have continued on again.
Why couldn’t they go for a manager that played a similar system to Ten Hag? Half our best players don’t fit Amorim’s system. Look at the way Slot came into Liverpool. No major system changes and they have continued on again.
No manager, not even Pep can get some change out of these lot. Previous managers are a testament to that. This time the drastic change is justified and we need to stick with it. The incompatible players can be shown the door!
Ideally we should go for the following, but I'm expecting cheaper alternatives for most...
LB: Branthwaite
LWB: Davies
DCM: Wharton
ACM: Gomes
ST: Gyokeres
Sell / Let go: Casemiro Eriksen Shaw Maguire Sancho Lindelof Evans Rashford Antony, maybe Zirkzee?
Anyone know if there's a realistic possibility Regarding promoting Obi-Martin or Kone for the ST / DCM roles in the near future?
LB: Branthwaite
LWB: Davies
DCM: Wharton
ACM: Gomes
ST: Gyokeres
Sell / Let go: Casemiro Eriksen Shaw Maguire Sancho Lindelof Evans Rashford Antony, maybe Zirkzee?
Anyone know if there's a realistic possibility Regarding promoting Obi-Martin or Kone for the ST / DCM roles in the near future?
Bruno should not be played at CM at ell, ever. He really struggles to play on the turn. When he plays there, his first touch is always facing his own goal which makes him awfully easy to play against.