I see many people here are unaware of the club's financial situation. The "extravagance" under ten Hag affects the budget really badly, Amorim's task will be to get the most out of the current squad.
Amorim's Rebuild
- Thread starter RDCR07
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) review both the Everton and Bodø/Glimt victories at Old Trafford. Listen to the guys discuss 2 wins and 7 goals in the last week, analyse of the Amorim formation, focus on Amad and how he is playing, and also take a look at Hojlund, Rashford & Zirkzee – who starts v Arsenal?
It doesn’t work that way. Teams set their own prices. So just cause one LW cost a certain amount doesn’t mean other LW will cost the same. Secondly I doubt Leao is earning £350k a week. When you sell a high earner you need to lower your transfer fees cause teams can afford his stupid wages. Third, Leao is far more consistent than Rashford. He has been averaging 15 goals and 15 assists for 3-4 seasons now. Fourth, Leao is younger than Rashford. Finally Milan aren’t playing a system that doesn’t suit Leao. We are and I’m all for it. I would rather this formation and Amorim work rather than Rashford make it here. Shoehorning players has gotten us no where. He can’t play wing back and he can’t play striker and he doesn’t have the skill set to play as a #10. Hence you move him on.
And the point, Sherlock, is that 50-65 m is a ridiculous return for selling nearly half the squad.
you’re the only person in the world who thinks Maguire can command a fee of £20m. Firstly his contract expires in the summer. We have an option to extend for another year but still haven’t taken it. Secondly he’s been injured a lot. He is on almost £200k per week too. Move him on. Get someone younger and quicker.
Actually, it's been widely reported that United is putting him up for sale in January, and certainly would be expecting a fee. 20m might be a tad optimistic, but if reports are to be believed they are at the very least looking for double figures. If we can't get that, I don't see the upside in moving him on at this point - it'd be better to keep him until summer at least, as cover.
You do realise that players can actually choose if they want a transfer or not? Why would Rashford move to a smaller team (and a much smaller contract)? Realistically, if no big club is interested in him (or he in them), he simply won't move. Maybe that would change (and the fee come down) if he's spent six months on the sidelines, but that's not where we are at this point.
I don't think we'll go for a top striker next summer due to budgett, we'd probably need to shift Rashford probably which seems unlikely
have a feeling Amorim will want to work with Hoijland and save the budget for midfield, defence and a number 10
have a feeling Amorim will want to work with Hoijland and save the budget for midfield, defence and a number 10
I don't get this athletes/athletic arguments not trying to be contrarian here, and I am not saying the likes of Evans, Cas or Eriksen can be depended on, but the rest of the squad is athletic enough, no team is full of Kyle Walkers, the likes of Odegaard or B.Silva or Foden or Macalister aren't athletes, not even Maddison, yet they have the requisite quality to play in the PL and they work very hard for their teams but they ain't athletes, we have players like Ugarte and Mainoo who can keep up if they work hard, Garna runs all game, Amad is a hard worker, even Antony, who lacks quality, is a hardworker, Dalot is very athletic, Yoro is too, Maz is no slouch, MdL is big and strong, Hojlund is an athlete too, Bruno is very energetic even if he isnt an athlete, even Rashford who most of us think he lost yards in pace and doesn't work hard is also still an athlete.
Now, yes we will have departures and new players will be needed, but I hope we don't sign athletic players without prioritizing their quality as footballers, with the right mentality and attitude, to come in and give it 100%.
Now, yes we will have departures and new players will be needed, but I hope we don't sign athletic players without prioritizing their quality as footballers, with the right mentality and attitude, to come in and give it 100%.
Not exactly a hugely important point, but are you by any chance under the impression that "oi" is a reasonable way to transcribe "ø"? If so, you are gravely mistaken.
"Ø" is pronounced like the e in "her".
Not exactly a hugely important point, but are you by any chance under the impression that "oi" is a reasonable way to transcribe "ø"? If so, you are gravely mistaken.
nah just lazy
This might be his most unique nickname so far.
Euros or pounds?For 10 million I wouldnt mind Zirkzee at Feyenoord
Actually, I don’t care. Come collect.
Right, that's fine then.
fair point I'll endeavour get it right in future!
I feel we need to add to this squad. I hope this is the starting 11 next season.
Onana
Yoro Branthwaite Shaw
Mazraoui Ugarte Mainoo Ait Nouri
Amad Bruno
Hojlund
With a very strong bench of: Mount, Zirkzee, Garnacho, Casemiro, Martinez, Dalot, Maguire, new CMYoro Branthwaite Shaw
Mazraoui Ugarte Mainoo Ait Nouri
Amad Bruno
Hojlund
That's probably for the best, but I wasn't being snarky, it is fine.
Team's don't set their 'own prices', that's nonsense. Chelsea paid £100m for Mudryk because there are very few players of his profile (inc age, the way he plays, skillset, etc) on the market. Same with Rice, Caicedo, Enzo. The market absolutely plays a role in the fee of a player. All of those players were gambles too.
Now what you say is true, I agree. I even do think we should be moving Rashford on. But people look at United like a dead end for football careers now. Somebody like PSG is going to look at his skillset and his seasons of good output and believe they can return him to that level. It was only one season ago, by the way. If you want a closer example : Dembele. His good seasons were even further away than Rashford's and his wages even higher yet he still went for £40m.
You honestly believe if we are offered £25m for Rashford, we're taking it?
Don't care either. We can't afford his wages though.
I know Dembele dropped off too but he still held a somewhat decent standard compared to what Rashford is serving up
personally I think we're stuck with him unless Saudi come to the rescue
Is he? What makes you say that?
watching football
How many PSG games do you watch?
none if I can help it
Interested to hear the CAF's opinion on Liam Delap. Looked pretty handy against us and think could provide good cover/competition for Hojlund. I wonder what the fee would be if they were to be relegated. Home-grown too.
Or do we think it's best to go out and buy an already proven CF?
Gyokeres, Osimhen, Cunha?
I think also think Amad should be pushed up into one of the "10" roles and perhaps us take another look at Frimpong in the summer (does he still have that £40m release clause?)
GK: Onana/Bayindir (or another back up if he leaves)
RCB: Mazraoui/Yoro
CCB: de Ligt/Maguire
LCB: Martinez/Shaw
(arguable could do with some back-up at CB - wouldn't be against Evans sticking around for 1 more year if he's physically up for it, or promoting a youngster for this role)
RWB: Frimpong (~£50m?)/Dalot
CM: Ugarte/Ederson (~£50m?) / Collyer
CM: Mainoo/A.Gomes (Free)
LWB: A. Davies* (Free) /Malacia or Amass (*If chooses Madrid then to look at Theo (~£60m?), Aït-Nouri (~£40m?) or Kerkez (~£40m?) )
CAM: Amad/Garnacho
CAM Bruno/Mount
CF: Hojlund/Delap (If Ipswich relegated and <£40m, if not then Gyokeres (~£75m?) /Osimhen (??? 2026 contract though) /Cunha (~£50m) etc.)
Out:
Lindelof (Free)
Eriksen (Free)
Casemiro (~£10m)
Antony (~£15m? is that too high??)
Sancho (£25m - Chelsea clause, hopefully)
Rashford (>£50m - not sure any club would be willing to take him with his current form but I'd take any offer over £50m)
Zirkzee (~£25m)
And then when that team doesn't work and the manager is sacked we do it all over again.
Or do we think it's best to go out and buy an already proven CF?
Gyokeres, Osimhen, Cunha?
I think also think Amad should be pushed up into one of the "10" roles and perhaps us take another look at Frimpong in the summer (does he still have that £40m release clause?)
GK: Onana/Bayindir (or another back up if he leaves)
RCB: Mazraoui/Yoro
CCB: de Ligt/Maguire
LCB: Martinez/Shaw
(arguable could do with some back-up at CB - wouldn't be against Evans sticking around for 1 more year if he's physically up for it, or promoting a youngster for this role)
RWB: Frimpong (~£50m?)/Dalot
CM: Ugarte/Ederson (~£50m?) / Collyer
CM: Mainoo/A.Gomes (Free)
LWB: A. Davies* (Free) /Malacia or Amass (*If chooses Madrid then to look at Theo (~£60m?), Aït-Nouri (~£40m?) or Kerkez (~£40m?) )
CAM: Amad/Garnacho
CAM Bruno/Mount
CF: Hojlund/Delap (If Ipswich relegated and <£40m, if not then Gyokeres (~£75m?) /Osimhen (??? 2026 contract though) /Cunha (~£50m) etc.)
Out:
Lindelof (Free)
Eriksen (Free)
Casemiro (~£10m)
Antony (~£15m? is that too high??)
Sancho (£25m - Chelsea clause, hopefully)
Rashford (>£50m - not sure any club would be willing to take him with his current form but I'd take any offer over £50m)
Zirkzee (~£25m)
And then when that team doesn't work and the manager is sacked we do it all over again.
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Dont City have a buy back clause with Delap?
Are we getting Marmoush
The first task is to get rid of people clogging up the wage bill.
Then we need widemen that can consistently score and assist. A proven goalscorer and a CM
Eze !
Personally not fussed about us making any signings in January, unless we incur any significant injuries or if any unique opportunities arise for top young talents. This will also give Amorim the opportunity to real test the squad to see who can be part of medium to long term plans.
Defence:
With Mazraoui looking incredibly confident at RCB and Shaw looking like he’ll be deployed as an LCB rather than a LWB we are looking quite solid. However, with Lindelof, Maguire and Evans all OOC, I think we should be ruthless and say farewell. Take the saved wages and pump it into either Diomande or Scalvini who are perfect for the CCB role in this system. Yes we have De Ligt, but we need to squad build like City have over the years and constantly add to the squad with quality options.
Wingbacks:
Hopefully Malacia builds up some consistent fitness and avoids any real injuries this season, then hopefully we could get 5-10m on him from someone. I would also put the feelers out on Dalot, I just don’t see where he fits in with this system and could command a decent fee. For the RWB slot I’d be looking at Quenda, who looks like a special talent, but also players like Vanderson or Tiago Santos are more traditional wing backs. For the left hopefully Amass will be physical more ready to be in the squad, then for additions there’s loads of options, from Theo Hernandez to Leif Davis to Dorgu, pick your flavour.
Midfield:
Physicality seems to be Amorims buzzword and I think we need more of this all over the pitch, but no less than in CM. Replace Eriksen, Casemiro and Collyer with Angel Gomes and Baleba.
Front 3:
I think this is going to be the most interesting and unknown area for me. Personally, I think Hojlund will come good and will improve as a consequence of the whole squad developing to the new system. Zirkzee I really don’t know, he has a mountain to climb and I almost wouldnt mind the club making an example of him by setting a new standard and shipping him out in the summer, hopefully to Motta and Juve. For the 10s, he clearly likes Mount, he’ll want Bruno around as someone who can do both the 10 and 8 role, Amad can do both the 10 and WB role. I can see Rashford being found out and looked to be moved on, I’d take 35m-40m for him given his contract. Garnacho is a tough one but I think he still has time to improve and hopefully Amorim can coach him on his decision-making and finishing.
I’d look to bring in Marmoush as someone who can play as a 10 or 9 in this system, Strand Larsen who is on loan at Wolves as a rotational ST with Hojlund, and Sverre Nypan as a prospect for the 10 role.
Out:
Maguire - 0m
Lindelof - 0m
Evans - 0m
Malacia - 5m
Dalot - 40m
Eriksen - 0m
Casemiro - 15m
Collyer - 10m
Antony - 20m
Rashford - 35m
Zirkzee - Loan to buy 25m
Sancho - 25m
In:
Diomande/Scalvini - 50m
Quenda - 60m
A. Davies - 0m
Baleba - 75m
A. Gomes - 0m
Marmoush - 65m
Strand Larsen - 30m
Nypan - 10m
Defence:
With Mazraoui looking incredibly confident at RCB and Shaw looking like he’ll be deployed as an LCB rather than a LWB we are looking quite solid. However, with Lindelof, Maguire and Evans all OOC, I think we should be ruthless and say farewell. Take the saved wages and pump it into either Diomande or Scalvini who are perfect for the CCB role in this system. Yes we have De Ligt, but we need to squad build like City have over the years and constantly add to the squad with quality options.
Wingbacks:
Hopefully Malacia builds up some consistent fitness and avoids any real injuries this season, then hopefully we could get 5-10m on him from someone. I would also put the feelers out on Dalot, I just don’t see where he fits in with this system and could command a decent fee. For the RWB slot I’d be looking at Quenda, who looks like a special talent, but also players like Vanderson or Tiago Santos are more traditional wing backs. For the left hopefully Amass will be physical more ready to be in the squad, then for additions there’s loads of options, from Theo Hernandez to Leif Davis to Dorgu, pick your flavour.
Midfield:
Physicality seems to be Amorims buzzword and I think we need more of this all over the pitch, but no less than in CM. Replace Eriksen, Casemiro and Collyer with Angel Gomes and Baleba.
Front 3:
I think this is going to be the most interesting and unknown area for me. Personally, I think Hojlund will come good and will improve as a consequence of the whole squad developing to the new system. Zirkzee I really don’t know, he has a mountain to climb and I almost wouldnt mind the club making an example of him by setting a new standard and shipping him out in the summer, hopefully to Motta and Juve. For the 10s, he clearly likes Mount, he’ll want Bruno around as someone who can do both the 10 and 8 role, Amad can do both the 10 and WB role. I can see Rashford being found out and looked to be moved on, I’d take 35m-40m for him given his contract. Garnacho is a tough one but I think he still has time to improve and hopefully Amorim can coach him on his decision-making and finishing.
I’d look to bring in Marmoush as someone who can play as a 10 or 9 in this system, Strand Larsen who is on loan at Wolves as a rotational ST with Hojlund, and Sverre Nypan as a prospect for the 10 role.
Out:
Maguire - 0m
Lindelof - 0m
Evans - 0m
Malacia - 5m
Dalot - 40m
Eriksen - 0m
Casemiro - 15m
Collyer - 10m
Antony - 20m
Rashford - 35m
Zirkzee - Loan to buy 25m
Sancho - 25m
In:
Diomande/Scalvini - 50m
Quenda - 60m
A. Davies - 0m
Baleba - 75m
A. Gomes - 0m
Marmoush - 65m
Strand Larsen - 30m
Nypan - 10m
I am desperate for Yoro to come good on the promise he came with & make that central CB role his own. Like you said, de Ligt (or Maguire) is unsuited for the role & will get caught out a lot.
I like Maz as the RCB option due to his ability on the ball & general football intelligence.
Shaw would be my first choice LCB option before Martinez and an upgrade for that position can wait for now.
I don't think Bruno is suited for the CM role and I would like Mainoo to be tried as a #10. I believe that he would excel in that position as he is one of our most press resistant players who is excellent in tight spaces and is very good at carrying that ball. We definitely do need a new CM in the summer transfer window.
An attacker and a striker are needed too.
However, like you said, LWB looks like the weakest position right now. I know Malacia has a grace period because he had a long lay-off but I don't think he was ever good enough to play for United. Dalot is not very good on the left either. Shaw doesn't have the body to play the position in such a demanding system. If we have to make a winter signing, then that would be the position I would spend my money on.
Shaw can barely stay fit and should be kicked out of the club after seasons of mediocrity. He will not be getting ahead of Martinez.
Nice! When an oppo fan makes one of the more sensible posts on our team! Also, I’d hope we get someone like Davies for that LWB position but also sign Quendia (sp?) for that RWB spot so Amad could possibly be pushed up as one of the 10 options. I think Amad and Quendia could form a very good understanding on the right hand side. But yeah, it’s a nice to have, with Dalot/Maz and Amad himself all capable of playing RWB.
Yeah, Mounts been disliked by many on here from day 1 (price, logic behind the signing, contract situation etc - which all have nothing to do with him) and his injuries haven’t helped but here’s hoping he can steer clear of injuries and become an important player for Amorim.
The reason for that task is that this squad is better than what they've shown for the last 15 months. We will still spend a lot every summer until we have assembled a team that can serious challenge for the PL + CL. I'd say we'll probably spend more next summer than in the last one.
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Interesting watch, especially the bit about the squad breakdown in 2 years time (youth-prime-experience). It does highlight the need for more players coming into their prime years, but that will be expensive.
The lack of money, means they will have to be smart with signings next summer.
The full backs are the most important position in this system. Cant afford to have 7 defensive players, otherwise it looks like southgates England.
The full backs will need to be competent defenders, but they need to dribble, beat a man, cross and shoot. Assists and goal threat is vital.
Otherwise there is now width in the 343.
Im not sure we have a single player that can do those things. Its a specialist position. Is mazroui and dalot good enough in the final 3rd, is garnacho, amad good enough in the defensive 3rd?
The full backs will need to be competent defenders, but they need to dribble, beat a man, cross and shoot. Assists and goal threat is vital.
Otherwise there is now width in the 343.
Im not sure we have a single player that can do those things. Its a specialist position. Is mazroui and dalot good enough in the final 3rd, is garnacho, amad good enough in the defensive 3rd?
No way. You obviously haven't got a faintest clue how bad the situation is despite several reports. Just one example. According to PSR (Premier League profit and susutainibility regulations) no club in the PL can have more than 105 million quid loss in THREE years. Ours was bigger last year (in one year not three...) and all together reached more than 300 million quid in the last 3 years mainly because of the lack of Champions League football. And honestly, regardless of Amorim, we don't have the slightest chance to reach the top 4 this year so the loss will grow anyway. Remember, Everton lost 10 points because of breaching PSR last season, well 6 eventually as they got 4 points back. And anyway, according to the reports we received record income last season which sounds good but record loss also, so our debts keep growing and growing. Bu let's forget the reports for a minute, just think. Manchester United spent 1.94 billion euros on players in the last 10 years (second biggest in PL) with minus 1.35 billion euro (biggest loss in PL) balance. During this 10 year period we did not have too much success to say the least, at least not ones that brought serious money. So this reckless spending affects our financial situation really badly. And of course next to PSR we should talk about FFP too, but that could be fixed if we get rid of Rashford, and the other high wage scraps. But yeah, if we cannot pay big money than we cannot sign top players. This is why i said, forget about Gyökeres, Kvarachelia and all these high profile, expensive guys. Promising, cheap youngsters (like Tyler Dibling) and free agents.
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Given Amorims comments about him Bruno isn't going anywhere.
That's about the size of it. Plus, is Shaw, who's probably a yes on both points, physically up to it?
Yeah, funnily, like the other three managers before him, he seems to think it's obvious that he's a key player and a big asset. It's almost like they all see something a lot of people around here don't.
Still a number of questions need to be answered. What is Bruno’s best position in this system? If Amorim sees Bruno in the double pivot, where does that leave Mainoo? is Amad seen as a wingback primarily or is it just a stopgap? Can Mazraoui also play as a wingback? Can Hojlund be good enough to stop us from spending big again for a striker? Does Rashford and Zirkzee have a place in this system?
I wonder if that leaves Mainoo as one of the #10s. He should be pretty well suited to that actually, with his technical ability.