Amorim's Rebuild

I can’t help but draw parallels between the Amorim regime and the Rangnick one. Both were hailed as visionaries with a clear identity and approach to modern football. Yet, in both cases, the results on the pitch fell short of the lofty expectations.

Like Rangnick, Amorim came with promises of discipline, a defined playing style, and long-term cultural changes, but the execution has felt disjointed, and the team looks more lost than ever. The lack of cohesion, inconsistent performances, and inability to inspire confidence in the players feel eerily similar to the frustrations we experienced during Rangnick’s tenure.

It’s hard not to wonder if we’re repeating the same cycle—bold rhetoric and ambitious plans undone by poor execution and deeper systemic issues that no manager seems capable of fixing.
 
ole@thewheel said:
I can’t help but draw parallels between the Amorim regime and the Rangnick one. Both were hailed as visionaries with a clear identity and approach to modern football. Yet, in both cases, the results on the pitch fell short of the lofty expectations.

Like Rangnick, Amorim came with promises of discipline, a defined playing style, and long-term cultural changes, but the execution has felt disjointed, and the team looks more lost than ever. The lack of cohesion, inconsistent performances, and inability to inspire confidence in the players feel eerily similar to the frustrations we experienced during Rangnick’s tenure.

It’s hard not to wonder if we’re repeating the same cycle—bold rhetoric and ambitious plans undone by poor execution and deeper systemic issues that no manager seems capable of fixing.
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Difference is, we need to stick it out with Amorim and accept that this season is a write off in order to eventually progress and not be in this situation again (hopefully).
 
ole@thewheel said:
I can’t help but draw parallels between the Amorim regime and the Rangnick one. Both were hailed as visionaries with a clear identity and approach to modern football. Yet, in both cases, the results on the pitch fell short of the lofty expectations.

Like Rangnick, Amorim came with promises of discipline, a defined playing style, and long-term cultural changes, but the execution has felt disjointed, and the team looks more lost than ever. The lack of cohesion, inconsistent performances, and inability to inspire confidence in the players feel eerily similar to the frustrations we experienced during Rangnick’s tenure.

It’s hard not to wonder if we’re repeating the same cycle—bold rhetoric and ambitious plans undone by poor execution and deeper systemic issues that no manager seems capable of fixing.
Click to expand...

The fans were divided on Rangnick from the start and he was criticized for speaking so negatively about the players. Now years later Amorim is doing the same and fans are getting a reality check. The key difference though is Ralf was interim coach and never promised a role after his short tenure so the players felt they could sandbag and throw him under the bus whereas Amorim will outlast more than half this team and the ones that want to stay need to play like they deserve to be kept.

Looking at the squad we need a new keeper, wing backs, midfielder, ten and striker. Casemiro, Rashford, Eriksen and probably 5-6 other players will be shipped out over the next twelve months. The absolute key to all this will be our recruitment, we need a really high hit rate on transfers to get back to a decent level. Out of our next ten signings we need to hit on 6 or 7. Looking at the one window we had under INEOS we got Yoro, Zirkzee, Maz and De Ligt. That's pretty decent I think, we need more of the same over the next four windows including this one.
 
Desert Eagle said:
The fans were divided on Rangnick from the start and he was criticized for speaking so negatively about the players. Now years later Amorim is doing the same and fans are getting a reality check. The key difference though is Ralf was interim coach and never promised a role after his short tenure so the players felt they could sandbag and throw him under the bus whereas Amorim will outlast more than half this team and the ones that want to stay need to play like they deserve to be kept.

Looking at the squad we need a new keeper, wing backs, midfielder, ten and striker. Casemiro, Rashford, Eriksen and probably 5-6 other players will be shipped out over the next twelve months. The absolute key to all this will be our recruitment, we need a really high hit rate on transfers to get back to a decent level. Out of our next ten signings we need to hit on 6 or 7. Looking at the one window we had under INEOS we got Yoro, Zirkzee, Maz and De Ligt. That's pretty decent I think, we need more of the same over the next four windows including this one.
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I only disliked Ragnick because I thought he was overrated as a manager and didn't know what he was doing. His criticism of players didn't bother me. ETH did take the same group of players + Eriksen, Licha and Antony and finish 3rd.
 
This season will carry on like this, we will win a game, lose a game, draw away a decent team think we've turned a corner then get beat at home again.

The players are the problem and this is the result coming to a head, the tactics work, we've beat City away playing these tactics (Sporting beat them playing it too). It is the players, they have some sort of mental block in games and they struggle to pass the ball to a team mate, to do the basic things. This has been going on for years and years.
From that it's going to take years to fix, and doing it during the middle of a season is idiotic but that's not Amorins fault. I'd rather right off this season if it means we have a chance to finish in the top 4 next season which looking at us currently seems a million miles away.
 
ole@thewheel said:
I can’t help but draw parallels between the Amorim regime and the Rangnick one. Both were hailed as visionaries with a clear identity and approach to modern football. Yet, in both cases, the results on the pitch fell short of the lofty expectations.

Like Rangnick, Amorim came with promises of discipline, a defined playing style, and long-term cultural changes, but the execution has felt disjointed, and the team looks more lost than ever. The lack of cohesion, inconsistent performances, and inability to inspire confidence in the players feel eerily similar to the frustrations we experienced during Rangnick’s tenure.

It’s hard not to wonder if we’re repeating the same cycle—bold rhetoric and ambitious plans undone by poor execution and deeper systemic issues that no manager seems capable of fixing.
Click to expand...
Our players want to play a certain way (counter attack/moments/vibes system). The manager can either bend or he will break.

We need owners who can financially tank a massive clear out
 
devilish said:
We need owners who can financially tank a massive clear out
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The more I think about it, we shoul've "used" RVN for this part of the operation, stripping the team to bare bones while playing a sustainable type of football, working with Amorim behind the scenes toward him starting in the summer. Now before Amorim can even start implementing his idea he will lost the credibility.
 
red_de_pologne said:
The more I think about it, we shoul've "used" RVN for this part of the operation, stripping the team to bare bones while playing a sustainable type of football, working with Amorim behind the scenes toward him starting in the summer. Now before Amorim can even start implementing his idea he will lost the credibility.
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Ruud would've actually seen us get relegated
 
ole@thewheel said:
I can’t help but draw parallels between the Amorim regime and the Rangnick one. Both were hailed as visionaries with a clear identity and approach to modern football. Yet, in both cases, the results on the pitch fell short of the lofty expectations.

Like Rangnick, Amorim came with promises of discipline, a defined playing style, and long-term cultural changes, but the execution has felt disjointed, and the team looks more lost than ever. The lack of cohesion, inconsistent performances, and inability to inspire confidence in the players feel eerily similar to the frustrations we experienced during Rangnick’s tenure.

It’s hard not to wonder if we’re repeating the same cycle—bold rhetoric and ambitious plans undone by poor execution and deeper systemic issues that no manager seems capable of fixing.
Click to expand...
Won away at City, Arsenal, could/should have beat Liverpool away. There is a huge difference between Rangnick and Amorim. If you look at our squad, it is absolutely shit, both in terms of quality and attitude. Only new players can help here but we are broke. Hence the very difficult situation and most players know that they can't be sold.
 
red_de_pologne said:
The more I think about it, we shoul've "used" RVN for this part of the operation, stripping the team to bare bones while playing a sustainable type of football, working with Amorim behind the scenes toward him starting in the summer. Now before Amorim can even start implementing his idea he will lost the credibility.
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I am not against Amorim being hired in a the middle os a written off season. It gives him time to analyse the squad and to pin point the rotten apples and get rid of them before things get serious. However this must be done in a mature mindset were the manager is propely backed.
 
Whatever rebuild is going to happen in terms of transfers we won't be eating at the top table for talent so we need to find some under the radar signings with no CL or even Europa and the death of so many players here, some will likely be put off of coming here
 
devilish said:
I am not against Amorim being hired in a the middle os a written off season. It gives him time to analyse the squad and to pin point the rotten apples and get rid of them before things get serious. However this must be done in a mature mindset were the manager is propely backed.
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But our board/owners as usual go into hiding, not a single word of backing let alone transfers, all on Amorim to face the world. The very definition of being hung out to dry.

Why not have Berrada do an interview explaining what is the plan and current process. Maybe because nothing is going to their plan if there was any.
 
red_de_pologne said:
But our board/owners as usual go into hiding, not a single word of backing let alone transfers, all on Amorim to face the world. The very definition of being hung out to dry.

Why not have Berrada do an interview explaining what is the plan and current process. Maybe because nothing is going to their plan if there was any.
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When has the owner or CEO of any club ever done this?
 
Tallis said:
I only disliked Ragnick because I thought he was overrated as a manager and didn't know what he was doing. His criticism of players didn't bother me. ETH did take the same group of players + Eriksen, Licha and Antony and finish 3rd.
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Ragnick would have at least have done what Amorim is doing which is stick to his style of football. ETH got third and a couple cups but he completely abandoned his style of play. Long term option A is the solution to our problems because option B has a clear and obvious ceiling.
 
Ineos need to give us a big summer window. The team is technically, physically and mentally fragile, and a few adjustments will do feck all to move the needle.

Wingbacks - we need two new wingbacks who being genuine pace and athleticism to the table but aren’t as brain dead as Dalot.

Midfield - we need two additions, one who adds passing / playmaking and another who provides ball carrying and physicality

Keeper - Replace Onana who is a liability

CF - our options are crap. Need a starting CF.

That’s 6 additions I think we need to make this summer. Somehow. New AMs would have to wait. I would expect the second CM to also be a step top far.

But while I like our focus on young players, I feel we need a real injection of qualify to move the needle.
 
I genuinely think we have at least another 6/7 losses coming in the league but I'd prefer him to stick to his laurels rather than try pick up points. We are too far behind to challenge for anything notable in the league. If there's no improvement by the end of next season we can reassess. If we are not challenging the year after that, we can reassess.
 
ole@thewheel said:
I can’t help but draw parallels between the Amorim regime and the Rangnick one. Both were hailed as visionaries with a clear identity and approach to modern football. Yet, in both cases, the results on the pitch fell short of the lofty expectations.

Like Rangnick, Amorim came with promises of discipline, a defined playing style, and long-term cultural changes, but the execution has felt disjointed, and the team looks more lost than ever. The lack of cohesion, inconsistent performances, and inability to inspire confidence in the players feel eerily similar to the frustrations we experienced during Rangnick’s tenure.

It’s hard not to wonder if we’re repeating the same cycle—bold rhetoric and ambitious plans undone by poor execution and deeper systemic issues that no manager seems capable of fixing.
Click to expand...
It’s easy to inspire this lot. Just give them good vibes and play solid counter attacking football. They’ll be happy forever and well be 6th to 8th forever. It will achieve nothing.

I don’t know it anyone is capable of fixing us but it will only happen through a brilliant few transfer windows. My big worry is whether ineos are up to the task.
 
I can't shake the feeling that Ineos is hiding behind Amorim and letting him take the blame for years of poor player recruitment and general poor investment in the club. Right now I think it's appropriate for someone from the management to speak out about what's happening and what's planned for the way forward.

Amorim didn't like the idea of coming in the middle of the season, which is understandable. But it was a criterion from the sporting management. When they choose to go for a manager change, a completely new way of playing, with such an unbalanced squad, you would expect them to have a plan for how to support Amorim. They haven't shown us anything so far.

So it could be that they have a very good plan internally, but with the pressure from the fans and the media, it's a shame if they don't address both the fans and the media as well. I'm one hundred percent behind Amorim, he's standing firm and seems to understand the situation the club is in. But I feel sorry for him.
 
red_de_pologne said:
But our board/owners as usual go into hiding, not a single word of backing let alone transfers, all on Amorim to face the world. The very definition of being hung out to dry.

Why not have Berrada do an interview explaining what is the plan and current process. Maybe because nothing is going to their plan if there was any.
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If we're not financially supporting the manager then we're better off making RVN the permanent manager and we should also issue a statement that Manchester United has no ambition to be a top club anymore. We'll then become the English version of Nice FC and Lausanne FC. Balancing the books would become our next treble.
 
Acquire Me said:
I can't shake the feeling that Ineos is hiding behind Amorim and letting him take the blame for years of poor player recruitment and general poor investment in the club. Right now I think it's appropriate for someone from the management to speak out about what's happening and what's planned for the way forward.

Amorim didn't like the idea of coming in the middle of the season, which is understandable. But it was a criterion from the sporting management. When they choose to go for a manager change, a completely new way of playing, with such an unbalanced squad, you would expect them to have a plan for how to support Amorim. They haven't shown us anything so far.

So it could be that they have a very good plan internally, but with the pressure from the fans and the media, it's a shame if they don't address both the fans and the media as well. I'm one hundred percent behind Amorim, he's standing firm and seems to understand the situation the club is in. But I feel sorry for him.
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I agree with you, Ineos are making up things as they go and this has hurt us badly this season. My biggest question is - we all know Amorim was looking to take a step up to the PL, he even spoke to West Ham, so if we wanted him why the hell did we not appoint him in the summer?

I agree that Ratcliffe or Berrada have to speak out not just to back him with a 'we are confident he is the right man' but to show that they have a solid plan in place and they understand that it will take time and they will do it with Amorim. Some coach killers in the squad will be smelling blood at this moment.
 
AneRu said:
I agree with you, Ineos are making up things as they go and this has hurt us badly this season. My biggest question is - we all know Amorim was looking to take a step up to the PL, he even spoke to West Ham, so if we wanted him why the hell did we not appoint him in the summer?

I agree that Ratcliffe or Berrada have to speak out not just to back him with a 'we are confident he is the right man' but to show that they have a solid plan in place and they understand that it will take time and they will do it with Amorim. Some coach killers in the squad will be smelling blood at this moment.
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Agree. They must show support and let us in on some details about the future. At this point, it feels like Amorim is the only one taking responsibility. It is not right.

It is getting stranger and stranger every day why we didn't part ways with ten Hag in the summer.
 
Acquire Me said:
Agree. They must show support and let us in on some details about the future. At this point, it feels like Amorim is the only one taking responsibility. It is not right.

It is getting stranger and stranger every day why we didn't part ways with ten Hag in the summer.
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It's very worrying but they need to negotiate this tough period without losing their heads. Bring in a couple of players, even some on loan, to just stabilize things and lift the feeling of doom around the club.
 
AneRu said:
It's very worrying but they need to negotiate this tough period without losing their heads. Bring in a couple of players, even some on loan, to just stabilize things and lift the feeling of doom around the club.
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Completely agree again. This season can still be saved. By saved I mean we can bring in some new signings, and get some deals done for Rashford and maybe Casemiro too.

With some new signings in and out we will experience optimism, and probably we will eventually play better too. This season will never be a good one, but there must be some progression.

If we are lucky enough to bring in some new ones and the game picks up, then we have everything to play for in the Europa League. It is our only way to the Champions League and it looks incredibly difficult the way the situation is right now.
 
Acquire Me said:
Completely agree again. This season can still be saved. By saved I mean we can bring in some new signings, and get some deals done for Rashford and maybe Casemiro too.

With some new signings in and out we will experience optimism, and probably we will eventually play better too. This season will never be a good one, but there must be some progression.

If we are lucky enough to bring in some new ones and the game picks up, then we have everything to play for in the Europa League. It is our only way to the Champions League and it looks incredibly difficult the way the situation is right now.
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I just hope we do well in the Europa and the remaining competitions for pride and setting the platform for next season. Whilst a CL qualification will do wonders for our finances I am not interested in being there to make up the numbers like we did last time out.

We should be there to compete with a realistic aim to win the thing within one or two years. I'd rather we be out of Europe next season, build a base of young players that have energy, talent and hunger then, if we do well qualify the following season as a proper top 4 team who are one or two signings away from being a truly top team that can win the league.
 
devilish said:
Our players want to play a certain way (counter attack/moments/vibes system). The manager can either bend or he will break.

We need owners who can financially tank a massive clear out
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You say that like it’s the only way they’ve played. Most of this team didn’t play under Ole. ETH replaced 75% of the squad, so I think that’s a tired narrative
 
golden_blunder said:
You say that like it’s the only way they’ve played. Most of this team didn’t play under Ole. ETH replaced 75% of the squad, so I think that’s a tired narrative
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True but the change came too slowly while key players were never really changed (shaw, Rashy). Laziness is an attractive proposition if it isn't tackled and is something that is easily taught
 
Id be happy with Dorgu, Nypan & Suzuki this January.

I think we should be able to get all of them for about 60 million if we negotiate right.
 
devilish said:
True but the change came too slowly while key players were never really changed (shaw, Rashy). Laziness is an attractive proposition if it isn't tackled and is something that is easily taught
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I've likened the failed rebuilds to trying to weed a garden. A new manager comes in, plucks out some deadwood or players who havent cut it, and decides what plants are worth keeping. Plants some new things to freshen everything up, but by the time they're well bedded, the original ones judged worth keeping prove themselves to have been damaged by the weeds. So he gets to work trying to replace them, only while he's doing that, the newest plants are damaged by the weeds. In football terms, the weeds are the bad players, but also the mental damage and failure that takes over everything. Sometimes I think Chelsea's madness had some sort of method, Forest too - just absolutely overhaul things as fast as possible. I cant help but worry that by the time Amorim has signed 3 or 4 players, the guys who look ok now, such as mazraoui, mainoo, ugarte and even diallo, will be battered mentally, sapped by a failing team's morale, and the whole horrible cycle continues season after season.
 
What'd do is sell Garnacho now and then use the money this transfer window to bring two wing backs, one for each side. In the summer, send Antony, Casemiro and Rashford on their way by any means necessary. Then sell Mainoo for no less than 90 million pounds to whoever wants him. That should free up a lot of money. Use it to revamp the squad in that window - striker, attacking midfielder, central midfielder, whatever is needed. Plenty of good suggestions already in this thread, but maybe some that haven't been mentioned as well.

Get it done.
 
Telsim said:
What'd do is sell Garnacho now and then use the money this transfer window to bring two wing backs, one for each side. In the summer, send Antony, Casemiro and Rashford on their way by any means necessary. Then sell Mainoo for no less than 90 million pounds to whoever wants him. That should free up a lot of money. Use it to revamp the squad in that window - striker, attacking midfielder, central midfielder, whatever is needed. Plenty of good suggestions already in this already, but maybe some that haven't been mentioned as well.

Get it done.
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Not a fan of letting Garnacho go but I can at least see the rationale. Kobbie Mainoo shouldn't be going anywhere though.
 
Carl said:
Not a fan of letting Garnacho go but I can at least see the rationale. Kobbie Mainoo shouldn't be going anywhere though.
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Don't really see the issue with it, to be honest. There will be others from the academy in due time. If it brings in 3-4 other players that fit the system better and make the team stronger, it is a small price to pay.
 
My opinion is very strongly that we need to stick with him and this is my reasoning:

Yes - he could change the system to suit the players and results would improve in certain games. If we reverted back to a 4-2-1-3 that the players are used to we'd go back to winning some games, likely more than we are doing but that's very short term thinking. (we would likely not have drawn with pool/beat city and arsenal with the old system* either - i believe we would have lost these games) I totally get why people want to try a different system, because watching your team lose when you know it's preventable is never nice.

However, we hired this guy for a reason. We hired him because we know - because he's shown that the way he wants us to play will result in success. He's shown it at sporting and he's shown it in europe. The issue, as we all know is that we don't yet have the players to play this system.

So why is he persisting with it? Well he needs to know which players are capable of learning what's required and which can be discarded, hence we're going through teething pains and if we don't make signings in January things will continue in this vein until the end of the season. If we want long term success this is something i believe we have to endure. The exact same thing happened at sporting as is happening here, he came in and sporting finished very poorly, the next season after promoting players and signings and most importantly a full summer of pre season to coach his tactics into the players they won the league.

This is a guy who's capable of tactically outclassing pep and I believe you can draw parallels with Pep's start at city and amorims in terms of we know we've got a coach who like Pep, has one vision/style of playing and when supported fully with the right players signed could potentially have us back on top again. I'm quite happy to write off this season and endure short term pain for long term success.
 
It's not even just the players being capable. Rashford and Sancho are capable of pressing and tracking back, they're just not interested. Varane and Lindelof were capable of pushing up and playing a high line, they just weren't interested. You can sack all the managers you want, if your tactics are going to be dictated by 5-6 prima donnas who'll down tools the second the manager instructs them to do something slightly outside their comfort zone, you're never going to get anywhere. We've seen squads try to implement tactics they weren't well suited for under new managers before, it doesn't look like United has the last 3-4 seasons.
 
iHicksy said:
My opinion is very strongly that we need to stick with him and this is my reasoning:

Yes - he could change the system to suit the players and results would improve in certain games. If we reverted back to a 4-2-1-3 that the players are used to we'd go back to winning some games, likely more than we are doing but that's very short term thinking. (we would likely not have drawn with pool/beat city and arsenal with the old system* either - i believe we would have lost these games) I totally get why people want to try a different system, because watching your team lose when you know it's preventable is never nice.

However, we hired this guy for a reason. We hired him because we know - because he's shown that the way he wants us to play will result in success. He's shown it at sporting and he's shown it in europe. The issue, as we all know is that we don't yet have the players to play this system.

So why is he persisting with it? Well he needs to know which players are capable of learning what's required and which can be discarded, hence we're going through teething pains and if we don't make signings in January things will continue in this vein until the end of the season. If we want long term success this is something i believe we have to endure. The exact same thing happened at sporting as is happening here, he came in and sporting finished very poorly, the next season after promoting players and signings and most importantly a full summer of pre season to coach his tactics into the players they won the league.

This is a guy who's capable of tactically outclassing pep and I believe you can draw parallels with Pep's start at city and amorims in terms of we know we've got a coach who like Pep, has one vision/style of playing and when supported fully with the right players signed could potentially have us back on top again. I'm quite happy to write off this season and endure short term pain for long term success.
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Outclass Pep? Based on what? A lucky victory where Amorim admitted City might be 3-0 up after 30 minutes. Amorim is now facing better teams than Benfica and Porto on a weekly basis and he seems clueless to me. Where is the progress? But maybe he needs 9 new players...
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
Outclass Pep? Based on what? A lucky victory where Amorim admitted City might be 3-0 up after 30 minutes. Amorim is now facing better teams than Benfica and Porto on a weekly basis and he seems clueless to me. Where is the progress? But maybe he needs 9 new players...
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I like that you left out the part where I said he's "capable" of outclassing pep to suit your agenda. But since you asked - based on the fact he literally destroyed pep's city 4-1 in Europe a week before joining us with a team that's suited to his system shows that he can outclass him tactically with the right players (although not sure why you've honed in on pep specifically)
 
Acquire Me said:
Agree. They must show support and let us in on some details about the future. At this point, it feels like Amorim is the only one taking responsibility. It is not right.

It is getting stranger and stranger every day why we didn't part ways with ten Hag in the summer.
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Was it not because Berrada started late? Is that not why Ashworth got the boot too, he wasn't appointed by Berrada?
 
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