Amorim's Rebuild

bosnian_red said:
Not a chance in hell it's more important than CF... LWB isn't the reason we aren't scoring goals and it isn't the reason we don't have anybody worth playing at #10. It's a problem, but for me it's the 4th priority.
Click to expand...
You guys are wasting your breath arguing about positional priorities. The reality is this team is miles off competing for serious trophies and needs upgrades all over the place. Priority #1, #2, and #3 should be finding high quality, young players at a reasonable price.

It'd be far better for this team over the long term to get say a Diomande or Branwaithe for a reasonable fee + wages on a long term deal than to splurge a bunch of money on the aging Ivan Toney, even though we need a striker more than a CB.

The focus on short term upgrades is exactly why the team is in this mess. Forget the quick fixes and start building a sustainable approach. We're not a player away from being a top team, and this season there's basically nothing to play for anyways.
 
bb8 said:
You guys are wasting your breath arguing about positional priorities. The reality is this team is miles off competing for serious trophies and needs upgrades all over the place. Priority #1, #2, and #3 should be finding high quality, young players at a reasonable price.

It'd be far better for this team over the long term to get say a Diomande or Branwaithe for a reasonable fee + wages on a long term deal than to splurge a bunch of money on the aging Ivan Toney, even though we need a striker more than a CB.

The focus on short term upgrades is exactly why the team is in this mess. Forget the quick fixes and start building a sustainable approach. We're not a player away from being a top team, and this season there's basically nothing to play for anyways.
Click to expand...
Who said anything about short term upgrades or Toney? We need a top CF, Toney isn't a top CF. If we can get Osimhen, we need to do that. For Amorim to get enough time, for the group to get belief in him, results eventually have to come that match the performance levels we're capable of in order to make them more consistent. That's not happening without a CF.
 
daba said:
I’d swap him for Hojlund in a heartbeat on current form but I’m not convinced he’s going to be a top top level ST long-term. Physically he has all of the tools though.

I also like the look of Omari Hutchinson, think he could be a nice option for us as one of the 10s in this system. With the expected outgoings happening over the next year we do need more English (homegrown) talent in the squad.
Click to expand...
The worst thing is that both of these would look 2 of our best players.

You add Dibbling that’s 3 players from the bottom 3 who level us up.

Not even including Cunha & Ait Nouri, 5 players from bottom 4 teams who would walk into this team.

It surely isn’t going to be a short fix, we just need to be careful in who we select.

Hunting for hungry young players on the verge of bursting onto the scene, is where we should be looking.
 
Buy:
Gyokeres 70m
Cunha - 65m
Mendes - 45m
Dibling - 30m
Carreras - 16m
Nypan - 10m
Douglas Luiz - Swap for Zirkzee

Sell:
Rashford - 40m
Dalot - 20m
Casemiro - 15m
Garnacho - 40m
Malacia - 5m
Antony - 15m
Maguire (free)
Eriksen (free)
Lindelof (free)


Gyokeres
Cunha Dibling
Mendes Ugarte Fernandes Amad
Carreras De Ligt Mazraoui
Onana
​
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Buy:
Gyokeres 70m
Cunha - 65m
Mendes - 45m
Dibling - 30m
Carreras - 16m
Nypan - 10m
Douglas Luiz - Swap for Zirkzee

Sell:
Rashford - 40m
Dalot - 20m
Casemiro - 15m
Garnacho - 40m
Malacia - 5m
Antony - 15m
Maguire (free)
Eriksen (free)
Lindelof (free)


Gyokeres
Cunha Dibling
Mendes Ugarte Fernandes Amad
Carreras De Ligt Mazraoui
Onana
​
Click to expand...

Is this over 3 transfer windows?
 
So there’s very slim chance we sign anyone this month unless we sell first. Annoying that we always have to sell first before buying. Meanwhile Arsenal can jump into the market and sign players to replace there injured ones.
 
Moston Red said:
I’m hearing there’s no money for signings unless we sell?
Click to expand...
Yup - but I'm battling back on forth on that statement.

I fear it's true - but I hope it's spin and that we've left the days of "wE CaN dO thInGs iN thE trANSfer maRKet tHaT otHEr CluBs cAn oNlY DreAm oF" and actually become smarter with what we communicate in terms of transfer windows.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Buy:
Gyokeres 70m
Cunha - 65m
Mendes - 45m
Dibling - 30m
Carreras - 16m
Nypan - 10m
Douglas Luiz - Swap for Zirkzee

Sell:
Rashford - 40m
Dalot - 20m
Casemiro - 15m
Garnacho - 40m
Malacia - 5m
Antony - 15m
Maguire (free)
Eriksen (free)
Lindelof (free)


Gyokeres
Cunha Dibling
Mendes Ugarte Fernandes Amad
Carreras De Ligt Mazraoui
Onana
​
Click to expand...
Is Maguire contract running out? We’re even more of a laughing stock if we let go of yet another player that cost over 80m for free. Can join the Pogba list. Money wasted constantly at this club and staff members and fans are paying the Price for it.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Buy:
Gyokeres 70m
Cunha - 65m
Mendes - 45m
Dibling - 30m
Carreras - 16m
Nypan - 10m
Douglas Luiz - Swap for Zirkzee

Sell:
Rashford - 40m
Dalot - 20m
Casemiro - 15m
Garnacho - 40m
Malacia - 5m
Antony - 15m
Maguire (free)
Eriksen (free)
Lindelof (free)


Gyokeres
Cunha Dibling
Mendes Ugarte Fernandes Amad
Carreras De Ligt Mazraoui
Onana
​
Click to expand...
Do Utd have £100m?

If Dibbling available for £30m, I think there competition will be problem
 
We need a CM and or CAM ideally with a bit of height and power which we’re lacking:
  • Tchouameni
  • Guimarães
  • Koopmeiners
  • Sancet
  • Hjulmand
  • Ederson
  • Cunha
  • Rogers
  • Brazhko
  • Bellingham (Jobe)
All offer something we need.
 
daveskimufc said:
Yeah apparently, but surely you'd think we have our own "levers" to pull to get ourselves some cash
Click to expand...

Finding the money isn't the problem. Not running foul of PSR and only being allowed to spend a certain % of revneue is the main issue. Running wages is a second worry - but technically has to do with PSR too.

We currently have between 50 and 100M in losses at a revenue of around 650M - much of that is covered by allowances. Analysts estimate that a succesful Man Utd would have revenues that would approach 1bn a year as early as 2027. Simply put, if we could invest more to get to the top, we would. Either INEOS would invest, or we would find someone who would be willing to fund it in exchange for future revenue percentage. Some analysts believe that if the Super League became a thing, 1bn is a conservative number.

We need to sell to avoid being in violation of rules - and we all know that if we were to stick our heads out and ignore those rules, the league would come down hard on us.

If we are genuinely at risk of relegation there probably needs to be a board room discussion on whether it might be worth risking a PSR violation - essentially writing off next season with points deduction - or finding a loan with obligation to buy and wage repayment solution that effectively eats up our transfer budget next season. Doing that in January would probably require an inflated fee as compensation for anyone good enough to make a difference to to be let go, or a creative loan swap deal. I guess this too would be an attempt to circumvent PSR, so we don't know how the league would react to that either.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Buy:
Gyokeres 70m
Cunha - 65m
Mendes - 45m
Dibling - 30m
Carreras - 16m
Nypan - 10m
Douglas Luiz - Swap for Zirkzee

Sell:
Rashford - 40m
Dalot - 20m
Casemiro - 15m
Garnacho - 40m
Malacia - 5m
Antony - 15m
Maguire (free)
Eriksen (free)
Lindelof (free)


Gyokeres
Cunha Dibling
Mendes Ugarte Fernandes Amad
Carreras De Ligt Mazraoui
Onana
​
Click to expand...
It’s feasible to expect the following to depart:
Eriksen
Lindelof
Malacia
Casemiro
Rashford

I’ll be surprised if Maguire doesn’t re-sign, and at this point, I’m still expecting Garnacho to stay.

I would like to see us add one or two players from the PL. For me, I’d add:
Ait-Nouri
Dibling

Other players id like to sign:
Inacio
Romano Schmid/Orkun Kokcu
Cunha
 
Signings for Staring XI:
LWB: Mendes or Davies. Mendes is probably the realistic one.
RWB: Quenda
Striker: Gyokeres

Signings for Backup/Rotation (I’m going for cheap options because the money should be invested on starting XI players):
2nd GK
Midfield: Jobe Bellingham (he has played as AM, CM, and DM, young talented midfielder, he would be a great addition for squad depth).
Wingback: Alfie Doughty (he has played on the left & right, he has PL experienced as wingback and has good delivery).
 
It would help a lot if someone like Wilcox did an interview and said the plan is long term rebuild targeting players who suit the manager's chosen system and that this will unfold over several transfer windows.

It would go a long way to calm things down I think.
 
JE-365 said:
Signings for Staring XI:
LWB: Mendes or Davies. Mendes is probably the realistic one.
RWB: Quenda
Striker: Gyokeres

Signings for Backup/Rotation (I’m going for cheap options because the money should be invested on starting XI players):
2nd GK
Midfield: Jobe Bellingham (he has played as AM, CM, and DM, young talented midfielder, he would be a great addition for squad depth).
Wingback: Alfie Doughty (he has played on the left & right, he has PL experienced as wingback and has good delivery).
Click to expand...
Is there really much of a difference between Amad and Quenda?
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Buy:
Gyokeres 70m
Cunha - 65m
Mendes - 45m
Dibling - 30m
Carreras - 16m
Nypan - 10m
Douglas Luiz - Swap for Zirkzee

Sell:
Rashford - 40m
Dalot - 20m
Casemiro - 15m
Garnacho - 40m
Malacia - 5m
Antony - 15m
Maguire (free)
Eriksen (free)
Lindelof (free)


Gyokeres
Cunha Dibling
Mendes Ugarte Fernandes Amad
Carreras De Ligt Mazraoui
Onana
​
Click to expand...
Carreras starting LCB? I feel like you'd have to sell Lisandro at that point - he shouldn't be a back up at his age, he's a world cup winner.
 
bosnian_red said:
I think in January we'll get rid of Zirkzee, Rashford and Casemiro. Hopefully manage to get something like 50m combined for them from Saudi and something like 25m for Zirkzee from Serie A (or loan with buy clause). Then go and try to pay out Osimhens loan and then sign him
Click to expand...
Are you living in Football Manager fantasy land? No club (even in Saudi) is paying you 50m to take on Casemiro and Rashford's absurd contracts. The likely outcome for both players is a free transfer
 
Redivy said:
We desperately need a youth player to break out over the next year, just to ease the financial burden it will cost to fill all our gaps.

We also badly need Yoro and Mainoo to come good and become regulars.
Click to expand...

If that doesn't happen, the club will likely be at fault, as it was the case for most of the young talents we've mismanaged in the last 12 years. Who has even reached their full potentials?

-We've got at least 2 great seasons out of Shaw, where I'd say he was the best left-back in the league, and possibly the world as well.
-We got 3 great seasons out of Rashford and 2 out of Martial

Not sure who else there is. Even the likes of Bruno, Maguire, and Pogba, who joined in their mid-20s, sort of became victims of United's talent graveyard and were misused and mismanaged by several managers.

Both Mainoo and Yoro have very high ceilings, and seemingly great mental profiles too. I'd like to add Hojlund here as well. If their developments deteriorate and they don't become genuinely world class players by their mid-20s, it's likely that United fails them, not the other way around...because they wouldn't be the first ones that it happens to.

By the way, Collyer seems to be ready to be a first teamer for us. I think he's physically more ready than most of our 17 and 18 year olds in the academy besides probably Kukonki.

I hope his absence from the pitch lately is just the case of him being eased back in after his injury, because at worst he would be our 3rd best midfield option already.
 
Last edited:
Rojofiam said:
If that doesn't happen, the club will likely be at fault, as it was the case for most of the young talents we've mismanaged in the last 12 years. Who has even reached their full potentials?

-We've got at least 2 great seasons out of Shaw, where I'd say he was the best left-back in the league, and possibly the world as well.
-We got 3 great seasons out of Rashford and 2 out of Martial

Not sure who else there is. Even the likes of Bruno, Maguire, and Pogba, who joined in their mid-20s, sort of became victims of United's talent graveyard and were misused and mismanaged by several managers.

Both Mainoo and Yoro have very high ceilings, and seemingly great mental profiles too. I'd like to add Hojlund here as well. If their developments deteriorate and they don't become genuinely world class players by their mid-20s, it's likely that United fails them, not the other way around...because they wouldn't be the first ones that it happens to.

By the way, Collyer seems to be ready to be a first teamer for us. I think he's physically more ready than most of our 17 and 18 year olds in the academy besides probably Kukonki.
Click to expand...
I completely agree. Unfortunately players come here on the up, and their careers take a downward trajectory. I do believe it’s mostly the clubs fault, but also partially the character of player we’ve signed.

I genuinely believe Yoro and Mainoo have superstar potential, players that could be in the top 4-5 in their positions, but we need to build an environment for them to develop. Fortunately we have a coach who seems very competent, but I still have my doubts on those above him.
 
Not sure a striker is going to be as transformative as some on here suggest. Were playing so badly the strikers barely get a sniff, it's not like ours are missing sitters.


Look at haaland for an example. In a functional team he's a phenomenon, but now City are stalling he looks completely unremarkable and barely influences the game.

Sorting out the WBs and midfield should be priority
 
Redivy said:
I completely agree. Unfortunately players come here on the up, and their careers take a downward trajectory. I do believe it’s mostly the clubs fault, but also partially the character of player we’ve signed.

I genuinely believe Yoro and Mainoo have superstar potential, players that could be in the top 4-5 in their positions, but we need to build an environment for them to develop. Fortunately we have a coach who seems very competent, but I still have my doubts on those above him.
Click to expand...

Agreed on Yoro. I think him and Saliba are the two potential heirs to van Dijk's throne in world football currently. 1 or 2 new talents of the same level are always bound to appear in the next few years, but Yoro is definitely one of them IMO and it's incredibly hard to acquire even just one such talent.

With Mainoo, the only reason I can't put him in the top 4-5 ceilings, is because of the quantity of freakish talent out there in central midfield currently. The likes of Pedri, Gavi, Bellingham, and Camavinga probably edge him in terms of potential ceiling, but Mainoo's probably in the next category below with the likes of Wharton, Zaire-Emery, Neves, etc. But that's mostly because of his slightly inferior physical profile and lack of passing range. He still has most of the tools to become an elite level midfielder, and I think he could already play for any side in the world and contribute massively. He reminds me of Moussa Dembele from Spurs, or Thiago, just without the passing range.
 
If we can’t sort out the supply doesn’t matter who is upfront we won’t score.

2 Quality WBs
1 Quality CAM

LWB should be the ultimate priority as we don’t have anyone.
 
Very few positives

We have promising young players who should be kept - hopefully
Mainoo..Yoro..Rasmus..Garncho..Amad
The current team can be squad players once we have new starting 11
Players like nazrawi..De ligt..dalot..mcguire..martinez..onana..can be backups
It will give us strenght in depth in the long run
Recruitment is the key here..if we can buy 5 or 6 good players per season ..it might only takes 2 -3 years.
 
WhyYouGottaBeSoRuud? said:
Is there really much of a difference between Amad and Quenda?
Click to expand...
I’m afraid if we play Amad as RWB, he would bench him or move him as no 10, instead he might use Dalot or Mazraoui as RWB to provide more defensive cover against the top teams like what happened to the derby.

I would like us to have winger who can play as RWB and being trusted to play the RWB role rather than playing another inverted full back as RWB. Amorim trusted Quenda more as RWB. Amorim wasn’t hesitate to start him as RWB vs the top teams Man city. There must be something about Quenda that he trusted him defensively to start against man city.
 
JE-365 said:
I’m afraid if we play Amad as RWB, he would bench him or move him as no 10, instead he might use Dalot or Mazraoui as RWB to provide more defensive cover against the top teams like what happened to the derby.

I would like us to have winger who can play as RWB and being trusted to play the RWB role rather than playing another inverted full back as RWB. Amorim trusted Quenda more as RWB. Amorim wasn’t hesitate to start him as RWB vs the top teams Man city. There must be something about Quenda that he trusted him defensively to start against man city.
Click to expand...
If we did sign Quenda, who is similar to Amad then with Amad in the 10 & Quenda at RWB they could be interchangeable throughout the game with positional rotation, giving defenders something to thing about.

If we can afford Quenda that is.
 
MCDC said:
If we did sign Quenda, who is similar to Amad then with Amad in the 10 & Quenda at RWB they could be interchangeable throughout the game with positional rotation, giving defenders something to thing about.

If we can afford Quenda that is.
Click to expand...

Quenda is 17/18. I don’t think it’s good planning to fill positions to help us climb the table with kids.

How’s Leny Yoro getting on?
 
Uncle Mainoo said:
Quenda is 17/18. I don’t think it’s good planning to fill positions to help us climb the table with kids.

How’s Leny Yoro getting on?
Click to expand...
I think you always look for the best young talent.

SAF always did this.

We are nowhere near competing but quality youth and quality experience is how teams compete for long periods.

We probably won't be able to afford him for 18 months anyway.

Yoro the 18 year old who injured his metatarsal in pre season? Any young kid needs time to bed in especially to a new league, the 18 year old Ronaldo was nowhere near the player he is now, it takes time, the right leaders and coaches around them.
 
Uncle Mainoo said:
Quenda is 17/18. I don’t think it’s good planning to fill positions to help us climb the table with kids.

How’s Leny Yoro getting on?
Click to expand...
I think Quenda and Amad would be perfect rotation to have as RWB. Assume if we sign Cunha or another no 10, Cunha and Bruno would be the no 10, while Amad plays as RWB. When Amad plays as no 10, Quenda can also play as RWB.

The wingbacks role is very specialist. You want to make sure it’s a role for a player who can provide threat for opposition defenders but also can be trusted for defensive contribution.
 
MCDC said:
I think you always look for the best young talent.

SAF always did this.

We are nowhere near competing but quality youth and quality experience is how teams compete for long periods.

We probably won't be able to afford him for 18 months anyway.

Yoro the 18 year old who injured his metatarsal in pre season? Any young kid needs time to bed in especially to a new league, the 18 year old Ronaldo was nowhere near the player he is now, it takes time, the right leaders and coaches around them.
Click to expand...
Without even realising you are answering the issue to my point.

Build the first team with players that are ready to make us better instantly.

SAF had the luxury of being the best team in England. We are 14th. Let’s build step by step. We don’t need Quenda right now. Unfortunately we aren’t ready for him.
 
JE-365 said:
I think Quenda and Amad would be perfect rotation to have as RWB. Assume if we sign Cunha or another no 10, Cunha and Bruno would be the no 10, while Amad plays as RWB. When Amad plays as no 10, Quenda can also play as RWB.

The wingbacks role is very specialist. You want to make sure it’s a role for a player who can provide threat for opposition defenders but also can be trusted for defensive contribution.
Click to expand...

I don’t think it’s specialised you just need the right attributes. Most attacking wingback are converted attackers like Cuadrado, Victor Moses. We just need someone who has lungs and can dribble.
 
The more I think about this rebuild the more I think the best way forward is a large scale revamp of the squad.

We have players running out of contract that we should not be renewing Eriksen, Lindelof, Maguire, Heaton and Evans. The only players I would consider renewing are Heaton and Evans due to their low salary, homegrown status and acceptance at being an emergency options.

We have players that are noticeably below the required standard such as Malacia and Antony and Bayindir, who regardless of what system we play do not have the required ability to be a Manchester United player.

We have players that do not suit Amorim’s system and have been exposed by this over the past 6 weeks. This includes players such as Dalot, Martinez, Garnacho, Rashford, Zirkzee and arguably Bruno.

We also have players on substantial wages, hampering our ability to upgrade the squad such as Rashford, Casemiro, Mount and you could add Bruno to this pile too.

And finally we have the likes of Shaw and Mount who can’t stay fit for more than 5 games in a row without getting injured for the next 10+ games, who are both on high wages and are not earning their keep in the slightest.

Eriksen
Lindelof
Maguire
Evans
Heaton
Lindelof
Malacia
Antony
Bayindir
Dalot
Martinez
Garnacho
Rashford
Zirkzee
Bruno
Casemiro
Mount
Shaw

That’s a hell of a lot of players (including at least 7 homegrown players) who we need to be looking at replacing over the next 2 windows. We won’t be able to sell, let alone replace, 16-17 players in two windows but I think we need to be ruthless and do as much as we can to cleanse and refresh the squad as we aren’t going anywhere with this group.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.