American Politics

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Nobby style said:
This white washing of history is precisely what leads to disastrous and immoral foreign and internal policies and endless warring and exerting insidious American exceptionalism. The first paragraph could be spoken by a true tea bagger. The best possible laws? According to who?

What's needed is a change in the fundamental look at this country and its history and not a white washing "you ain't getting 'em back, them the breaks" mentality. Many non Americans say, you got your twin towers knocked over and 3,000 people murdered . . . "thems the breaks."
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I'm the furthest thing from a tea bagger. According to who? How about representatives elected by the people? How about academics in the subject matter? How about government bureaucratic who have worked in the field for their whole career? Why would we consult Native Americans in North Dakota to decide what to do about border issues in El Paso? You are making a lot of assumptions there.

I don't see the Mexicans having the Mayans on speed dial any time they discuss policy changes. If there were small communities of Bell Beaker people, would they be entitled to have London and Dublin back? Should Cairo go back to the Ottomans or should the Ottomans give it back to the Ancient Egyptians?

What about New York state? Should we gave that back to the Iroquois or should it go to the Osage who they invaded and killed? And what about Arkansas? Does that go the Osage who left New York due to the invading Iroquois or do we give it to the Caddo who themselves were invaded and killed by the fleeing Osage?
 
No one's saying give back anything to anyone. Don't be ridiculous. Good god. And yeah, let's listen to the tea bag elected officials in Arizona to make immigration policy. Go Joe Arpaiao!!!

But let's have some of these tea bag anti immigration Arizonians listen to some native Americans stories and history of the European immigration, instead of the propaganda John Wayne history we've been inundated with all our lives and see if we can rewrite history a bit and then start to work on an immigration policy.

Maybe we can avoid acts of brutal terrorism and reactions that kill a country's soul and treasury if we start changing the way we look at our history.
 
Nobby style said:
No one's saying give back anything to anyone. Don't be ridiculous. Good god. And yeah, let's listen to the tea bag elected officials in Arizona to make immigration policy. Go Joe Arpaiao!!!

But let's have some of these tea bag anti immigration Arizonians listen to some native Americans stories and history of the European immigration, instead of the propaganda John Wayne history we've been inundated with all our lives and see if we can rewrite history a bit and then start to work on an immigration policy.

Maybe we can avoid acts of brutal terrorism and reactions that kill a country's soul and treasury if we start changing the way we look at our history.
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You took issue with my not getting the land back part, so I was responding to that.

Educating people on immigrating would be a great idea, I agree. Maybe we would have less alarmist rhetoric.

And yeah, Arpaio is a complete lunatic but he's still an elected official. Fortunately he wasn't elected to make laws but public officials elected to make laws will rightly have more influence than the Sioux or some other descendant of Native Americans.

Personally I'd love to see more legal immigration and less demonizing of illegal immigration. I have several relatives who came from Central America illegally. I suspect we have similar views on the matter, I just don't think descendants of Native Americans have any special rights when it comes to immigration laws.
 
Red Dreams said:
dangerous to generalise...but by an large the fact is...their populatins have been decimated...in some cases systemtically.

we have a lot to answer for as a nation....but having said that many of us, whatever our race are serious about doing what is right.

I think we will have very good immigration reforms this year....if the GOP decide not to be pricks.
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I do know all this, my wife is quarter Cherokee. The guy in that video just got me fired up and I have great respect for Native Americans and the shit they went through.
 
Edit: response to eboue:

Where did I mention anywhere about giving land back? That's ridiculous. I would never argue that. It seems more like the knee jerk reaction of those who think just because you want American Indians in the equation or to take a strong historical look at their viewpoint or that of Latin immigrants, it means you're looking for some kind of give back or land restitution. Complete bollocks.

Why would listening to a Native Americans testify and give their version of immigration and have it given good press be considered alarmist. For feck's sake, you get Rush Limbaugh's version daily all over the airwaves. How about a little fairness. Maybe in the way that the Native American in the video was yelling would be alarmist, but I don't think anyone wants that kind of thing in the immigration question (although you certainly get plenty of it from the tea baggers). But personally, I think Native Americans are experts in immigration, and I think they should be granted "special rights" in the conversation (not the actual laws) considering the historical situation. I know, it would be quite uncomfortable for the powers that be and the whole country to hear their voice, but I think that's what's needed in the US. Shame that the Joe Arpaiaos will have a much louder voice, but as you say, thems the breaks.
 
On my iPod so I will only have a short response for now.


Why are Native Americans alive today experts on immigration? By alarmist rhetoric, I meant the Limbaughs and Arpaios of the world. Finally, the giving land back part was me saying that this are the breaks. The land isn't going back. Sorry if I'm being confusing, I'm a bit distracted at the moment.
 
I would think they are experts because more than anyone in America, they've felt the negative effects of a shit immigration policy. You don't think an American Indian on a reservation with no opportunity, with family and health problems due to in part misguided liberal policies, with lack of integration into the Amer/Euro culture has a special voice in the immigration issue? In fact, they've suffered genocide for it. Wouldn't that in and of itself, give them a special right in the immigration conversation. Is that too much to ask? Is that unfair, considering the massive Arpaioa/Limbaugh weight it will have? I think it would be great for America.
 
There's this thing (was called the Jones Treaty maybe?) that sates the Canada/US border doesn't technically exist for Native Americans. That idea throws a spanner into any talks about immigration law in the US.
 
Andrew~ said:
This is kinda silly. The Native Americans didn't have nation states and were, for the most part, nomadic. They're in no position to call anyone 'illegal'.

I mean, I think the idea of restricting migration is crazy, but this is just grasping at non-existent straws.
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That's somewhat off, especially in the eastern US. The Iroquois tribes there tended to live in settlements based on agriculture. They had also divided themseleves into six distinct nations.
 
The problem with a lot of the "right" is that although they are often highly educated they are usually even more opinionated and on top of that dislike change. It's not a very good combination.
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
The problem with a lot of the "right" is that although they are often highly educated they are usually even more opinionated and on top of that dislike change. It's not a very good combination.
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The analysis is the issue for them.

they tend to inflate the importance of minor expenses...looking at a mice going by...while missing the elephant...no pun intended.

:)
 
The Brennan hearings confirms a cold reality, the country has been hijacked and public apathy can do little about the intransigence
 
Maher absolutely crushed Donald Trump in his monologue last night. :lol:

 
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I'd agree with that dude on those 4 pics there anyway. Close some overseas bases and cut the military spending that way.
 
It's Mark Ruffalo. I hope they weren't making him mad; you wouldn't like him when he's mad.
 
You might think one republican would have the decency to stand up and react against his over-the-top nonsense. Yeah, right. Their silence speaks volumes.


Musician and gun advocate Ted Nugent will be Congressman Steve Stockman's guest at Tuesday evening's State of the Union Address by President Barack Obama. Nugent will be available to speak to the media before and after the Address.

"I am excited to have a patriot like Ted Nugent joining me in the House Chamber to hear from President Obama," said Stockman. "After the Address I'm sure Ted will have plenty to say."

Here's some of patriot Ted's greatest hits:

NUGENT: Because I'll tell you this right now: If Barack Obama becomes the president in November, again, I will either be dead or in jail by this time next year. Why are you laughing? Do you think that's funny? That's not funny at all. I'm serious as a heart attack.

NUGENT: I was in Chicago last week. I was in Chicago and said, "Hey, Obama you might want to suck on one of these you punk." Obama, he's a piece of shit, and I told him to suck on my machine gun. Let's hear it for him. And then I was in New York. I said, "Hey, Hillary, you might want to ride one of these into the sunset, you worthless bitch. Since I'm in California, how about [Senator] Barbara Boxer [D-CA], she might want to suck on my machine gun. And [Senator] Dianne Feinstein [D-CA], ride one of these you worthless whore. Any questions?

Nugent: "I'm Beginning To Wonder If It Would Have Been Best Had The South Won The Civil War."

Nugent: Civil Rights Leaders Jackson And Sharpton Speak In "Ebonic Mumbo-Jumbo."

Nugent: African-American Rappers Appearing On MTV Are "Big Uneducated Greasy Black Mongrels."


NUGENT: You know how many times I've watched MTV? Once in my fecking life.

MACK: You got to be on top of these things.

NUGENT: I don't have to. You know what I'm on top of? I'm on top of a real America with working hard, playing hard, white motherfecking shit kickers, who are independent and get up in the morning.

MACK: Aren't there any blacks?

NUGENT: Show me one. Show me one.

MACK: There's plenty of them.

NUGENT: Show me one.

[...]

MACK: I got a problem with this attitude, I mean, obviously because --

NUGENT: What attitude? What attitude?

MACK: Well most people would call it racism.

NUGENT: Racism, what's that? I'm not a racist by any stretch of the imagination.

MACK: Why is it that, you know--

NUGENT: I'm let down--

[CROSSTALK]

MACK: --real America is equivocated with white people?

NUGENT: Because the black guys with this rap--

MACK: Rap?

NUGENT: --electronic make believe talentless music makes me want to throw up.


Nugent: "What's A Feminist? Some Fat Pig Who Doesn't Get It Often Enough?"

Nugent: "You probably can't use the term `toxic cnut' in your magazine, but that's what she is. Her very existence insults the spirit of individualism in this country. This bitch is nothing but a two-bit whore for Fidel Castro."


ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: You want to kill on sight anybody who illegally comes into the country. Just shoot them, right?

NUGENT: If they're armed, and they're attacking our country, yes.

COLMES: Well, they wouldn't be attacking. You don't know if someone coming over the border -- would you just shoot anybody coming over the border who you suspect of being illegal?

NUGENT: In an unauthorized entry, armed, like they are right now, invading our country, I'd like to shoot them dead.

COLMES: Just shoot them dead. All right.
 
Eboue said:
You left out the part where he has sex with underaged girls.
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I guess I forgot his patriotic scheme to get out of the Vietnam war as well

But enough about his sometimes awesome, sometimes middling musical career. As patriotic as Uncle Ted claims to be, he pulled a nasty stunt to evade Uncle Sam during the Vietnam War. In a July 15, 1990, Detroit Free Press interview, Nugent crowed about how he managed to dodge the draft. He claims that 30 days before his draft board physical, he disavowed personal hygiene. The last ten days he ingested nothing but junk food and Pepsi, and with a week to go until the physical, he stopped using the bathroom altogether. When the big day came, he had been living in excrement-caked and urine-stained pants. Always the hero, however, Nugent reassured the Free Press, “But if I would have gone over there, I’d have been killed, or I’d have killed all the Hippies in the foxholes. I would have killed everybody.”
 
Her name is Kaitlyn Roig. She's one of the teachers from Sandy Hook. There's an interview of her talking about how she barricaded her room and hid her kids in the bathroom, etc. Quick-thinking, heroic, and quite pretty.
 
Hid it about as well as his faulty personal history that makes claims about his and his family's time in Cuba that aren't true.
 
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