You just named two #8s, and a #6, and none of them are that similar to Onana, especially the two Portuguese guys.
Amadou Onana | Ornstein: Villa agree ~50m deal
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You just named two #8s, and a #6, and none of them are that similar to Onana, especially the two Portuguese guys.
Sold, let’s just settle for Branthwaite, Onana and battling for 6th for the coming seasons then!
Medina - aren’t the vast vast majority of back ups not as good as the 1st choice, hence them not being 1st choice? I’d say him being very similar to Martinez is a positive, would give us consistency even when he is out which is usually incredibly hard to find. I like Medina too because he could provide cover at LB too and he wouldn’t cost much. Inter reportedly being quoted €20m.
Diomande/Tapsoba - agree they would cost probably £60m but at least we would be investing that money in exactly what we need, a proper RCB, who is great on the ball, progressive, tall, quick.
Todibo - yes I’m not an ostrich. But I threw his name in just in case we fancy fudging the rules or finding a work around somehow.
Geertruida - He can play RCB, RB, CM, which would be incredibly useful for our squad. But I would sign him alongside another CB for sure.
Neves - depends how we are able to sell in my opinion. But as things stand it looks unlikely, but never say never.
Baleba - the prices being bandied a few weeks back were about £55m. Which if true wouldn’t be out of reach.
Yeah Neves is the dream midfield signing this summer but looks difficult with our inability to sell
I'm not totally disagreeing with your options my friend, I'm just not sure they improve us much more than Branthwaite and Onana would.
For instance, yes, Medina would probably be a better 3rd choice CB than Lindelof and can cover LB. I'm not sure he comes close to Martinez in terms of ball progression though.
Geertruida would we a very useful squad player, especially if AWB leaves. Again though, I would pick Dalot at RB ahead of him and I don't think he's a better CB than Maguire. So I think at least one of those players has to leave, and they're probably not going to cover what Geertruida would cost.
If you can't get Diomande or Tapsoba for less than £60m then I honestly think you might as well get Branthwaite.
Todibo would have been a great budget friendly-ish option, but I'm not sure he has the same ceiling as the 3 defenders in the paragraph above. Maybe he doesn't have to be though, at least for now. You're right in terms of we probably haven't heard the last of this one though, if the reports today are anything to go by.
Neves... we'd have to really sell well. I don't think we're going to get what we're hoping for Greenwood or Sancho. I wouldn't be surprised of at least one of them leaves on just a loan again.
And reports might say £55m for Baleba, but is that really good value? He hasn't shown much at Brighton so far, let's be honest. At all now there's at least another £10m on top of that, unless we're talking a release clause?
Is Baleba even available? Been impressed by him this season, he's slowly settled into the league as the season progressed and finished off strongly. He looks like he'll be better than Onana and the like in time, more energetic, more physical and aggressive.
I won’t go through all them again as you make fair arguments, even if I don’t agree with them all!
Yeah I do think Geertruida would be a very s art signing and a great replacement for AWB and Lindelof, killing two birds with one stone and improving on both. Shame we’ve not had stronger links to him.
On Baleba, he had a bit of a slow start but really started to kick on despite Brighton’s overall struggles. He’s also only 19 I think so he has a lot more growth in the tank I think. We were also supposedly looking at him before Brighton pounced so he’s definitely on our radar. Better to buy now at 55m than 100m next year after he’s no doubt improved further this year. Same would go for someone like Wharton.
Wharton and Baleba are the types of signings I hope we'll start to make before they've already come and established themselves in the EPL and quadrupled in price.
I think that's INEOS's plan, in terms of long term recruitment. Wharton was right in our backyard at Blackburn and is the closest thing I've seen to a Carrick-type CM in England since Carrick retired.
The impetus just hasn't been there under the Glazers, who were too fixated on star signings like Pogba, Sancho, Casemiro, etc.
Brighton and Crystal Palace will a Rice type of money for Baleba and Wharton. As the poster above me said, we have to buy them before they make that step up in the Premier League, as it's too late after they do that.
Technically not good enough.
If Baleba is gettable at 55m, I would put in the bid now. As one poster said, another year at Brighton and he's going to cost 100m. If not Baleba, go for Lucas Gourna-Douth who has a similar profile to a Tchouameni. Able to play as a 6 or box to box. He's another a smart club will pick up for 20m and then we will be wondering what our scouts are doing when he's valued at double the price when we become interested.
Baleba' talent looked quite obvious, not as if Brighton unearthed a gem.
This guy isn’t it
Belgium's Conor Gallagher?
Did you two even watch him today?
"Conor isn't even my name mate"
Jesus Christ.
Wow, he's not our answer but he's nowhere near that bad.
Don’t see it with this guy. Never have.
If the rumours from a few months ago are true that SEG are interfering with recruitment and they don't want Onana at United, and they're blocking a move for him, that's unforgivable and ETH and everyone associated with SEG can feck themselves...as well as the club for letting that happen
You don't seriously believe that, do you? The rumours emanated from a Belgian journalist who from my observation has always been unreliable as far as the stories he's put forward regarding player transfers.
SEG itself is a agency that employs over a 150 agents and of course they're getting bigger and influential around Europe with both Erik ten Hag and Guardiola being on their books. But the only player at Man Utd, who they represent is Rasmus Hojlund. And according to The Athletic, it was Højlund's parents who selected SEG as the agency to represent their son after interviewing numerous candidates.
Both Onana and Todibo were targets in the previous summer's transfer window. But both McTominay and Maguire refused to leave, hence deals for Onana and Todibo couldn't proceed. Hence we had to settle for Amrabat on a loan who we left on the back burner until the dying minutes of the transfer window.
Onana joining PSG would make them stronger imo because they've already got the likes of Vitinha and Ruiz as players who are good on the ball and Onana will compliment that even more and will fill in the gaps that are missing with players like Ruiz and Vitinha who really don't provide a high level of ground coverage or duel winning capability.
I think from a United perspective if we really want to sign a player who is going to provide ground coverage and high duel winning capability, then I've already discussed Lucas Gourna-Douath who could be that player and likely wouldn't cost a lot from Salzburg. And then there's also Nicholas Seiwald whose currently playing for Austria and plays his club football at Leipzig, and he's a player who wins a high number of duels without giving fouls away. At 23 years of age, he's a player who again would represent good value and likely wouldn't cost too much as far as wages and transfer fee are concerned. And he's a player who isn't going to move the needle as far what he can do on the ball but he's one of the best tacklers in Europe and when you combine that with his intelligence, then it's no surprise that he's just recently equalled a record where he's gone through the group stages with Austria and made the most tackles without giving a single foul away since 1980. He's a duel winning ground eating monster.
I was leaning towards not believing it, and now you've refreshed my memory as I also read those Athletic articles when they were published. The SEG rumor probably isn't true, I agree.
I've not seen the two players you mentioned but they do sound promising alternatives. However, I'd still go for Onana if it's a possibility as I think he's a perfect fit for the team, especially Mainoo in midfield, and my gut feeling also tells me he would turn out to be a great signing. He's also the perfect age and already has 2 PL seasons under his belt.
This guy is such a donkey
Evertons Ndidi
You're one of the more sensible posters on this forum mate, so I'm not going to allow you to go towards the dark side if I can help it.
I think Onana would be a great signing for us and would be one of the best midfield signings we could make this window to get the best out of our technically gifted players. And Onana himself is fine technically but his ability to clean up out of possession both on the ground and in the air would really help us push forward and play higher up the pitch.
I was watching the Portugal game yesterday and Joao Neves started and I was particularly keeping a eye on his duel winning capability and he lost most of his duels and didn't even look to contest some aerial duels which is understandable due to him being 5'6. I know a lot of fans live in fantasy land and envision a game style where they see United just being so much better than the opponent with players who pass the opponent to death. But in reality that isn't realistic right now due to the league having a high volume of very good teams which wasn't the case say 10 years ago. So it's important to have a good balance of physical, athletic and technical qualities. We have failed badly in that regard imo and signing Onana would be a step in the right direction in that regard. But if the money is a issue then I can understand and hence signing alternatives would make sense with players like Lucas Gourna-Douath or Nicolas Seiwald being options who have the potential to reach a high level as ball winning midfielders with the ability to eat up ground quickly.
I think the details matter more now in the EPL than they ever did before due to the higher level of coaching and recruitment throughout the league.
Thank you, I appreciate that.I wouldn't be surprised to see Arsenal snap up Onana if he becomes available and we don't go for him, as I feel like he would suit their midfield as well, and they did the same thing under Arteta that've you just described now: heavily focused on not just raising the technical level of the team, but they've mostly signed players with incredible physical and athletic qualities on top of technical excellence, which led them to having the best defense in the world (IMO) that also gets significant support from midfielders with similar strengths like Rice or Partey...I hope we are going to sort out our defense and central midfield in similar fashion as that could cause a sudden, but huge improvement.
That's why I was never ETH out despite being indifferent to his future towards the end of last season, as I felt like 2 new CBs and at least 1 defensive midfield signing could mean a huge difference to making his approach work in the PL.
It's not even just Arsenal, Man City themselves have bought several players due to their physicality and athleticism. A player like Aymeric Laporte was a technically very good player on the ball but became a liability due to how much was expected from him out of possession in a higher line where he couldn't deal with the pace of attackers in larger spaces. I created a thread about us potentially signing Manuel Akanji and said he's someone that we can pick up on the cheap and he would provide the ability to go 1v1 in the channel and help us defend higher up the pitch. The response was that he wasn't better than anything we already had and low and behold, Man City sign him on the cheap and utilise him exactly like I'm describing in the thread below.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Arsenal snap up Onana if he becomes available and we don't go for him, as I feel like he would suit their midfield as well, and they did the same thing under Arteta that've you just described now: heavily focused on not just raising the technical level of the team, but they've mostly signed players with incredible physical and athletic qualities on top of technical excellence, which led them to having the best defense in the world (IMO) that also gets significant support from midfielders with similar strengths like Rice or Partey...I hope we are going to sort out our defense and central midfield in similar fashion as that could cause a sudden, but huge improvement.
That's why I was never ETH out despite being indifferent to his future towards the end of last season, as I felt like 2 new CBs and at least 1 defensive midfield signing could mean a huge difference to making his approach work in the PL.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/manuel-akanji.469058/
Liverpool is another example of a team which combined pace, power and athleticism with a high level of technical ability to create a winning team. Players like Wijnaldum and Henderson in midfield with Van Dijk and Matip dominating the channels in wide spaces and the fullbacks providing progression in wide areas with Firminho dropping deeper to connect and combine with team mates, which then facilitated both Mane and Salah to score a lot of goals. Simple but hugely effective where a coach creates a team to dominate all phases of play with the aim of sacrificing defensive stability for goals. I can only speak for myself, but that Liverpool team at it's peak played the brand of football that I love watching, which was a combination of positional play (possession) combined with high intensity pressing.
Picking up players like Akanji for cheap is a type of deal that we need to start doing whenever there's a good opportunity on the market. I have full confidence in our scouting department that they can find the players that are somewhat under the radar and could be bought for under ~40-50m but still massively contribute to the team.
Regards to physicality, Rangnick also mentioned several times during his time at United that the squad lacks physicality. I'm also pretty sure ETH and the scouting department are aware of this based on the players we're currently targeting or by now have had a long standing interest in. Amadou Onana is a perfect example of that. Having party freed ourselves from the Glazer shackles with the Ineos takeover, I feel like there's absolutely zero excuse not to sort this issue out within the next couple of transfer windows.
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We don't even have to go for Onana if the budget is tight. There's players out there who can be bought for reasonable sums imo who would contribute towards creating a system of play where we can play in a more dominant way. I just don't understand why we need to go for someone like Ugarte from PSG when a player of a similar profile can be bought for a cheaper price over-all as far wages and transfer fee are concerned. I think if Onana isn't a realistic option then I'd hope we target a player like Nicolas Seiwald from Leipzig, and not only is he a good duel winner on the ground, he's also quick and tenacious with the ability to evade and resist pressure whilst also having good ball carrying ability. I know this is the Amadou Onana thread, but for anyone that wants a look at the player's highlights, I'll post them below.
I've been saying for years that we have a issue with a lack of physicality and athleticism. We've especially lacked players who are strong duel winners with the ability to eat up ground quickly. But the key here is to sign those players with the aforementioned attributes without compromising on technical ability. Those players are there to sign imo and I've been saying for years about raising the level as far controlling space is concerned. And if you want to commit a high volume of players into the opponent's half with a view to dominating the game then you have to implement a higher defensive line. And the purpose behind a higher defensive line is to squeeze the pitch half court style (tennis) so you can win the ball back quickly via a well coordinated high press. We can't do that because we have too many players in deeper midfield and CB who struggle in 1v1 situations.
If the money is tight, then can we not do something like the below?. I think the team below has potential develop into a a very good team . The more we develop our football, the more we appeal as a potential destination for players in the future. I'd even look to see if we can sign a player like Tygo Land from PSV and send him on loan to OGC Nice rather then pay huge money for Joao Neves.
I've only added Seiwald and Kossounou to the team. And with only two new signings along with us having a bit more luck with injuries, I think there's potential to make big strides as far developing a more dominant team with and without the ball. But let's be honest, I think we can do more than two new signings.
-------------------------Onana---------
Dalot------Kossounou-----Martinez------Shaw
--------------Seiwald-------Mainoo----
--------Amad------Bruno------Garnacho
-----------------------Hojlund-------
I have no doubt that Ugarte would improve the current team, but I'm of the same opinion as you that we could do so much better than him. Seiwald seems to be a cheaper alternative, although I wouldn't be surprised if Leipzig asked for at least 30 million for him, as they probably don't need to sell anyone that they feel they could get a bigger fee for in a few years' time, instead of selling on the cheap now. If PSG are open to selling Ugarte this summer, it will probably be for a lower fee than the 51m they paid for him last summer, at least I would assume. I wouldn't be surprised if the difference between the two players' transfer fee was around 10m or less in the end. But Ugarte is on almost 3x the wages Leipzig are paying Seiwald.
However, whether it's Ugarte at 1,82m or Seiwald at 1,79, are you not concerned about the lack of height in central defense and central midfield? Mainoo is probably around 1,85m, if we pair him with someone shorter than him, and then one of our CBs in Martínez is also just 1,75m, don't you feel we would need a bit more height in there? Only 1 of the 4 central players occupying their own box and zone 14 would be above 1,85m in your proposed lineup. Onana would definitely provide a lot more aerial dominance than most other options.
Also, how would you feel about Palhinha, whether as a lone #6 or in a double pivot with Mainoo? Bayern seem to be getting a free run at him, but I feel like despite being 29, for the reported amount Bayern have bid for him (€45m, although Fulham apparently want more), I think it could be a good signing for United as well.
Ugarte or Onana? I’d personally choose Ugarte. Feel like we can get him slightly cheaper and I like his aggressiveness. What we need in midfield.
Onana will cost more than what Sir Jim was willing to bid for Branthwaite. If you wont pay 50m for Branthwaite, are you going to pay 50m for Onana - because Arsenal, Bayern and PSG will offer that sum
We are appalling at identifying the lesser known candidates like Seiwald. Not a chance in hell we'd ever look at him.
And there’s folk out there that still hang on to every word that comes out of this clowns mouth.
He is not even a starter for Leipzig. Why is he good enough to be a starter for us? I'm all for it if it's a loan because he is pretty good defensively, but he is nowhere near good enough overall to help us to titles.
You mentioned him several times and even suggested that 30m would be fair value, but I don't really know why. He failed at Salzburg and will probably go back to France. RB will be happy to get their money back.
Put it this way, he's all puff no sauce.
I'm not sure it would be a good idea to sell a 20 year old over the club's failure to appoint a adequate head coach who was mostly the cause for their poor season where they lost their league winning steak to Sturm graz.
Gerhard Struber who was sacked in April was the main cause of their issues. I didn't think Struber pulled up any trees at Barnsley and it was no surprise his below par coaching lowered the standards at RB Salzburg where they were on a winning league run.
I think I get where you're coming from. Trying to find value overseas is definitely something we should be considering and I'd say LGD was rated as an A-Tier talent when he played for St. Etienne. But shouldn't he be doing better even when the club struggled a bit? I mean, it's Austria.
I wouldn't have anything against buying him for 10m and sending him on loan for 2-3 seasons to see how he develops. Generally, identifying the right profiles, getting them for cheap and loaning them out would be legit transfer business but expecting him to contribute right away would be a long shot, IMO.
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