Amadou Onana | Ornstein: Villa agree ~50m deal

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Insanity said:
I don't think he'd take our midfield to the top level. It never works out if there is a weakling (passing in his case) in the set-up by surrounding him with superior players. He is not very good on the ball, Mainoo is still developing and we have Bruno, who already uses the ball as a hot potato. We'd find it mighty tough to keep hold of the ball with those three as our midfielders. We need to pair Mainoo with a Rodri/Carrick like midfielder if we want to better our midfield.
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Those players don’t come around too often.

I look at the market right now and the only one I see that might tick the box of that complete DPL mould is Mats Wieffer, and even there you’d have to wonder wether he’d be able to handle the step up from the eredivisie.

I think Onana is good enough, at least in the mean time, and we really have to get someone for that position this summer.
 
JohnnyLaw said:
Those players don’t come around too often.

I look at the market right now and the only one I see that might tick the box of that complete DPL mould is Mats Wieffer, and even there you’d have to wonder wether he’d be able to handle the step up from the eredivisie.

I think Onana is good enough, at least in the mean time, and we really have to get someone for that position this summer.
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He'll cost 50m-60m, for that amount you want more than someone who is good enough. I rather take a punt on Wharton than sign this guy.
 
Is this guy one of our targets? Is he even a DM? I see him more as an #8
 
Insanity said:
He'll cost 50m-60m, for that amount you want more than someone who is good enough. I rather take a punt on Wharton than sign this guy.
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I’d be happy to have Wharton, I don’t think Onana is much worse though and I think Everton would be more open to a sale.
 
JohnnyLaw said:
I’d be happy to have Wharton, I don’t think Onana is much worse though and I think Everton would be more open to a sale.
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They are completely different players. Wharton has a much higher potential and is also more risky.

But maybe we want Onana as we want to continue to be a counter-attacking team that plays underdog football...who knows. I could see Onana's use ahead of Wharton in the stupid style of play we adopted last season as Onana can cover a lot of ground, whereas Wharton is a more cultured midfielder.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
What’s his ethnic background got to do with anything here?
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Absolutely nothing. Sorry if it offended you in any way. I just wanted to point out that there must be other "Onanas" available for a cheaper price. They don't necessarily have to be of African descent. However, players with Onana's type and talent often come from there.

There are plenty of examples of really good players with that background.
 
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Think Arsenal will get him and Arteta will proceed with a comfortable 2nd place again with his merry team of units.
 
DJ_21 said:
Is this guy one of our targets? Is he even a DM? I see him more as an #8
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Yeah I think he is more an 8 than a 6. We have four of those already. Thought he was good the other night, nice range of passing and covered the ground well.
 
Nogho said:
Absolutely nothing. Sorry if it offended you in any way. I just wanted to point out that there must be other "Onanas" available for a cheaper price. They don't necessarily have to be of African descent. However, players with Onana's type and talent often come from there.

There are plenty of examples of really good players with that background.
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Sorry too. Replied to your ‘nothing’. Then deleted when I saw you expanded.

Just felt a little silly. Paulinha, Xhaka, Rodri, Wharton, Rice, all have the same skill set.

It felt like you were suggesting there was some generic African CDM production line that could be tapped into.

Probably too sensitive.
 
andersj said:
Simply not true. He very rarely gives the ball away. Even in a team like Everton. That is more important than creating for someone like him.
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Sorry mate but that’s rubbish. Have you seen his passing? Wayward at best.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Sorry too. Replied to your ‘nothing’. Then deleted when I saw you expanded.

Just felt a little silly. Paulinha, Xhaka, Rodri, Wharton, Rice, all have the same skill set.

It felt like you were suggesting there was some generic African CDM production line that could be tapped into.

Probably too sensitive.
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The players you mention would, in many cases, have been even better, so I completely agree with you.

If such a pipeline for players existed, it would have long been overused, depleted, and empty in today's skewed football world.
 
croadyman said:
OK let's have some suggestions
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Without getting into a list of other targets, I’ll piggy back off the post you responded to and say that I have my reservations about Onana. I’ve said it many times in this and other threads, that I have real concerns about how he fits into our team. And I think it all depends on how we intend to play. Which is a bit of an unknown for all of us. Heck, I think it’s unknown to our coach, who played some sort of chaotic clusterfeck last season, until he was forced to field something more conventional by our acting DoF.

If we intend to play with a double pivot, then I don’t see Onana as a bad option. He’s got a lot of merit to his game. He’s nowhere near in the same class as someone like Neves, but he’s also presumably not in the same price bracket either. I don’t think he’s a player that particularly helps us progress or retain the ball, but will provide more energy and physicality off it.

Of we intend to play with a sole pivot, then he’s not our guy. I don’t think he has the quality going forwards to play as the 8 linking up with Bruno - a role Mainoo is tailor made for - and he’s not good enough with his back to goal to play as the lone pivot. When he receives the ball under pressure, he almost always just goes backwards. He’s not good at receiving it, making a little space with his first touch, and playing a progressive pass. Something which is essential - to the point of being a deal breaker - to our build up play in an inverted midfield triangle.

If we buy him, I have to assume that we’ll play with two pivots, both as 6/8 hybrids, and he’ll be alongside Mainoo. Personally I would prefer a proper, much more technical DM, who can play behind Mainoo and Bruno. But recognise that there are many ways to achieve the same outcome and we’ll have to adjust according to what’s available in the market and what we can afford,
 
Onana would be perfect for the way we played last year, his ability to cover ground and win the ball back would fit into that style of play. But the majority of fans want a team that is much more composed and technical and for that reason, I don't think Onana is right for Man United team moving forward.
 
I just read lot of comments in Everton forum about Onana. Most Everton fans won’t be gutted if he leaves. Some people think he’s not that good. Some also think he’s not that good but will be good if he plays for a bigger team that want to play more possession football. While some people think he’s actually talented but has been mis-used because they think of him as power and pace player due to his size and recovery pace but in reality his fundamental is more about silky and technical, which he will be much better playing in a team that wants to play more possession.

Apparently, Onana has been criticised due to him not being as hard work as Gana (Gueye). Gueye is more suitable to play under Sean Dyche. While Onana seems to be more a deeplying playmaker rather than ball winner like Gueye or Kante.
 
JE-365 said:
I just read lot of comments in Everton forum about Onana. Most Everton fans won’t be gutted if he leaves. Some people think he’s not that good. Some also think he’s not that good but will be good if he plays for a bigger team that want to play more possession football. While some people think he’s actually talented but has been mis-used because they think of him as power and pace player due to his size and recovery pace but in reality his fundamental is more about silky and technical, which he will be much better playing in a team that wants to play more possession.

Apparently, Onana has been criticised due to him not being as hard work as Gana (Gueye). Gueye is more suitable to play under Sean Dyche. While Onana seems to be more a deeplying playmaker rather than ball winner like Gueye or Kante.
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Dyche doesn't look to exert control through midfield hence Onana's on the ball attributes aren't going to be highlighted in such a setup. He's obviously a player with a high level of pace and power but his technical game is good and his ability to receive passes under pressure for such a big guy is quite impressive.

So whether you want to go more direct in a vertical manner or want to implement a positional game (possession football) on the ball in the build up phase, Onana fits into both setups due to his ability to strengthen the resting defense in a higher line which is a requirement in both a direct and positional approach. And he's also someone that has shown a good level when it comes to receiving passes under pressure and driving the ball forward.

Instead of signing Branthwaite, I think Onana would be the better signing for us because not only would he add everything I've mentioned above but also his aerial game would help against teams who go direct both in open play and on setpieces. And when you have someone like Onana who gives you a different dimension from midfield, it should open up the possibility of signing a Marc Guehi or Odilon Kossounou for the RCB position who are both physically and athletically gifted and can play in possession.
 
In many ways, this type of player is exactly what EtH wants for his style of football. Extremely hard-working, covering large areas of the pitch. Good in duels and with decent passing ability.

Also physically strong and tall, which is advantageous during set pieces. Being European, he wouldn't miss matches due to international tournaments.

Frankly, this type of player is exactly what United has been missing since Keane left and a player that all other top teams have had over the past ten years, but we've lacked.

Players like Rodri, Partey, Bissouma, Rice, Luiz, etc.

So, having a player of this type and a big, strong forward seems perfectly suited to how football is played in today's Premier League.
 
Still not sure about him. He is excellent in many respects, but his passing is not great and he makes mistakes.
 
Adnan said:
Dyche doesn't look to exert control through midfield hence Onana's on the ball attributes aren't going to be highlighted in such a setup. He's obviously a player with a high level of pace and power but his technical game is good and his ability to receive passes under pressure for such a big guy is quite impressive.

So whether you want to go more direct in a vertical manner or want to implement a positional game (possession football) on the ball in the build up phase, Onana fits into both setups due to his ability to strengthen the resting defense in a higher line which is a requirement in both a direct and positional approach. And he's also someone that has shown a good level when it comes to receiving passes under pressure and driving the ball forward.

Instead of signing Branthwaite, I think Onana would be the better signing for us because not only would he add everything I've mentioned above but also his aerial game would help against teams who go direct both in open play and on setpieces. And when you have someone like Onana who gives you a different dimension from midfield, it should open up the possibility of signing a Marc Guehi or Odilon Kossounou for the RCB position who are both physically and athletically gifted and can play in possession.
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Personally I'd like a player with a more expansive passive range next to Mainoo. I feel like this pairing - where both players primarily like to dribble and lay it off in possession - could force Bruno to drop into deeper positions when we do want to go more direct. And Bruno is a player I think does his best work playing closer to his centre forward.

It is asking an awful lot for a player to be a visionary passer and a sublime athlete however, so we'll have to compromise somewhere. I suppose if the CB we bring in is excellent at forward passes a la Licha, there's less of a need to have that in your double pivot.
 
Nogho said:
In many ways, this type of player is exactly what EtH wants for his style of football. Extremely hard-working, covering large areas of the pitch. Good in duels and with decent passing ability.

Also physically strong and tall, which is advantageous during set pieces. Being European, he wouldn't miss matches due to international tournaments.

Frankly, this type of player is exactly what United has been missing since Keane left and a player that all other top teams have had over the past ten years, but we've lacked.

Players like Rodri, Partey, Bissouma, Rice, Luiz, etc.

So, having a player of this type and a big, strong forward seems perfectly suited to how football is played in today's Premier League.
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Agree with the first bit, definitely not the last! If ETH is going to continue with a similar setup next year then we need players like Onana that are built to cover long distances. He’d be a good addition.

I don’t think he’s anything like Rodri or Keane though! We’d still be missing a midfielder who can control the game. But it didn’t seem like controlling the game was particularly important to ETH last year.
 
Before buying anyone for the midfield area, you have to ask will he complement Mainoo! then coming a distant second to that requirement is will he complement Bruno.

If its a YES for both then go for him.
 
Brwned said:
Agree with the first bit, definitely not the last! If ETH is going to continue with a similar setup next year then we need players like Onana that are built to cover long distances. He’d be a good addition.

I don’t think he’s anything like Rodri or Keane though! We’d still be missing a midfielder who can control the game. But it didn’t seem like controlling the game was particularly important to ETH last year.
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Yes and no. Rodri is a better footballer overall and Keane was more aggressive.

He's in the top 85% for all defensive aspects during last season. His passing game is so-so, but his long passes stand out, being in the top 90%.

A really good footballer who is perfect for his position. At 22 years old, he's already a regular international player.

The only concern is that a player like him is in high demand by almost every team, so he will undoubtedly come at a high price.

(Statistics from FotMob)
 
I like him and I think he'd be a useful addition to United's squad. Whoever we have at #6 needs to be a fantastic athlete to stand any chance of covering the amount of space that EtH's system leaves in midfield - Onana reads the game well and can cover a lot of ground. His passing ability (or lack thereof) has been somewhat exaggerated from what I have seen. Everton had the 2nd lowest average possession (40.1%) in the Premier League last season and also played the most long balls per game (64) of any team. In Dyche's system, which shuns ball retention almost entirely, you would not expect Onana (or indeed any other midfield player) to complete many passes. Meanwhile, at the Euros, he's averaging 60 passes per game, which is more than Kante, Rabiot, Bellingham, Gundogan etc (not claiming he is a better passer than the aforementioned players, just that he is capable of playing successfully in a more possession-based system than he is currently deployed in at Everton).
 
Kweku Amonoo said:
Regardless of whatever other skill a player possesses, the first thing we should be looking for is technique and guile. That’s how you build a competent midfield like City, Madrid and co. Any thing other than that and you’re risking staying average and having issues like Mctominay. Onana isn’t the type of player we should sign, he’s an average player who’s able to have great games every now and then due to his physicality.
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We need a coherent consistent football style and only sign players that fit that profile. I don't think we have such a plan in place
 
I would love it if we signed him as it would immediately raise our starting 11s athleticism. He has fight and determination and can be useful in both boxes on set-pieces.

Its sad but there are loads of CMs even only in the premier league that could drastically improve us, and he is just one of them. We should probably look to address this, instead of resigning Amrabat. Having the slowest two CMs in the league in Amrabat and Mainoo, is not a recipe for success. Especially when you consider our keeper is so average that players are encouraged to take shots from outside of our box. People know that they will have time to line up shots because our two slowies in the middle won't be able to get out and challenge the shots because they are a few steps too slow.
 
ArtetaInInIn said:
Arteta will bid for this guy. Arteta loves his ball winners and dual winners. Another giant to add to the collection and set piece targets.
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It depends on whether Partey stays next season. Zubimendi and Douglas Luiz are not available anymore. So Onana is linked. Nothing will happen till the Euro is over though.
 
didz said:
Personally I'd like a player with a more expansive passive range next to Mainoo. I feel like this pairing - where both players primarily like to dribble and lay it off in possession - could force Bruno to drop into deeper positions when we do want to go more direct. And Bruno is a player I think does his best work playing closer to his centre forward.

It is asking an awful lot for a player to be a visionary passer and a sublime athlete however, so we'll have to compromise somewhere. I suppose if the CB we bring in is excellent at forward passes a la Licha, there's less of a need to have that in your double pivot.
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If the aim is to be a more dominant team in possession, then what is required out of possession is extremely important in the current EPL. I don't believe we can be a dominant team in possession without also having the ability to be dominant out of possession. Both concepts (in & out of possession) are linked and ignoring one or the other will result in our system of play not functioning to a high enough level.

And as far as Onana is concerned, he absolutely isn't bad technically but rather he's very good technically for such a big guy. He's not a playmaker or someone that will play a high volume of passes but within a team dynamic he will provide qualities that are clearly lacking in this Man Utd team. We do not require any one player to shoulder the creative burden in the build up phase and the key to having a strong build up capability in possession is to look at the first phase players as a collective unit and see how they will collectively progress the ball and also repel opposition transitions. So the new CB signing along with Martinez, Shaw and Dalot should also be required to contribute at a good level on the ball as far as exerting control in possession is concerned. Then we have Mainoo and potentially Onana in midfield who both possess ability to receive the pass on the turn with Mainoo having the added freedom and responsibility to be the deep roaming playmaker.

So being a positionally strong team (possession dominant) absolutely requires the team to have a good balance of players with a more expansive passing game and also having the capability to control the large spaces which will open up when applying a high press backed up by a high defensive line. Failing to control or contain that space out of possession will render our possession capabilities ineffective imo.

I want my team to play dominant football but I'm not that naive to believe that all we need is technically secure players on the ball whilst ignoring the out of possession concepts that are a must in a physically and athletically demanding EPL if the aim is to sacrifice defensive stability for goals in a higher defensive line.

And as far as Bruno Fernandes is concerned, he's a player who is best played further up the pitch and his playstyle is one where he does play a high volume of vertical passes with a higher element of risk hence giving the ball away is absolutely a possibility. But if we're keeping him and we want to get the best out of him, then we have to become a team that is good at winning the ball back quickly and pro-actively. Man Utd cannot do this currently and having something like the team below will potentially see us win the ball back quickly and effectively for the likes of Bruno to be more effective in the final third.

I've only added two players to our midfield and first line below. But I think both Kossounou and Onana would raise our technical and athletic level where would become more proactive as a team. I think we would require more players to be brought in but I think that would be a good start to the window imo. Man Utd will always be a attractive proposition for players but we can be even more attractive once we get the ball rolling as far as getting a system of play working for the modern day.

-----------------------Onana------------
Dalot---Kossounou---Martinez---Shaw
-----------Mainoo-------Onana-----
 
If we sign Branthwaite and Onana god help us.

We need a CB who can cover for Martinez, not just a left footer, but more importantly a CB who can step into Licha’s shoes and dictate the play and make something happen. Branthwaite is okay on the ball from what I’ve seen but is probably no better than Maguire who as we’ve seen cannot lace Licha’s boots when it comes to build up play.

Onana is a physical monster, I’ll give you that, but with the ball we need better. We either need someone who is very progressive and expansive, or someone who is meticulously tidy and is great at retaining the ball. Onana is neither of these.
 
daba said:
If we sign Branthwaite and Onana god help us.

We need a CB who can cover for Martinez, not just a left footer, but more importantly a CB who can step into Licha’s shoes and dictate the play and make something happen. Branthwaite is okay on the ball from what I’ve seen but is probably no better than Maguire who as we’ve seen cannot lace Licha’s boots when it comes to build up play.

Onana is a physical monster, I’ll give you that, but with the ball we need better. We either need someone who is very progressive and expansive, or someone who is meticulously tidy and is great at retaining the ball. Onana is neither of these.
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So who should be looking to sign then?
 
daba said:
Excluding unrealistic targets like Tchouameni etc:

CB - Medina, Diomande, Tapsoba, Todibo, Geertruida

DM - Neves, Baleba, Ugarte
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Medina is left footed and not that much taller than Martinez. He'd basically be a not as good back up, so isn't really going to improve the first XI.

Diomande would be expensive, probably similar to what Everton want for Branthwaite.

Tapsoba - see above.

Todibo - have you not read the news recently?...

Geertruida - isn't he predominantly a RB? Might be a decent option if AWB leaves, but not as first choice RCB.

Neves - we're not paying €100m, not this window.

Baleba - from Brighton?! Did you not see what happened with Chelsea and Caicedo last summer?

Ugarte - pretty much the only realistic option in your list that would be an upgrade on (last season's) Casemiro and Amrabat.
 
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