I've got no issue with a player trying a dummy in the opposition's box. Admit it - if any other player had tried it, you wouldn't have spent the time commenting on how unforgivable it is.
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I’ll be honest and say that if the opposition hadn’t picked the ball up from the dummy, then I wouldn’t have had a problem with it. But there were only Forrest players in that area to pick it up….So he either didn’t know what was around him or ?
I’m not sure who else is doing that ? but it wasn’t clever and was picked up by many people on match day. As I said I didn’t see anybody blame Amad, yet the poster I responded to has used that to blame him.
It was objectively a bad decision of a dummy from Bruno. We were chasing to win the game and as per usual it was box to box stuff with no midfield. If you're running into the box and have the chance to take a shot/take a pass into stride or challenge so it doesn't get to their defender first, you should always do this first because otherwise you better be 100% sure 1) you can actually get to the ball first to dummy it and 2) your team mate is behind you. It was a pretty typical Bruno thing to do i.e high risk/high reward but because he didn't get to it and there wasn't anyone behind, then yes it was bad, really bad.
Doesn't matter if it was Bruno or someone else, you just don't do that. You already have a chance to shot/take a touch in the penalty box/keep it alive, so you always play to the percentages, don't overcomplicate it.
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It isn't a fine pass at all, it's too far away from Bruno and too close to the defender. It isn't a hopeless punt, but it's a poor ball too close to the defender who got a touch, Bruno dummying or not isn't getting there first (although he should have challenged, rather than dummied, it was a poor decision).
As for you justifying him standing around, it was also more than a couple of seconds of disappointment, he disappeared from camera view and wasn't seen again until the restart. If you think it was unacceptable that Bruno reacted that way, then by definition you also have to think Amad's reaction was unacceptable too. At least Bruno can point to the fatigue of a full match as reasoning, but this doesn't need to be either/or, neither covered themselves in glory.
I'd agree it wasn't perfectly into feet where Bruno was able to take a shot into stride but it was absolutely at least a 50/50 ball at worst as to who was getting a touch first. In fact, it's the type of pass that a player like Bruno would typically get a touch (because he was running onto it with momentum), which would then lead to some sort of contact, hence why the defender stood tall and went down in stages rather than getting a strong foot on it.
I'd rate Amad's first time pass on his weaker foot in a crowded box as 'okay' and Bruno's decision not to challenge/dummy it as 'horrendous'. If he pulls it off, it's genius but as with my post above, the percentages were not there to be played and knowing his tendencies, it was rather typical.
I'm don't really agree with you about the pass, it was definitely too close to the defender and had Bruno run onto it he wouldn't have had much space with a defender right on top of him. The dummy wasn't a great idea, but I don't think he would have made that decision with a better pass.
Having said all that, the quality is irrelevant to the discussion, which is about how Amad's really poor reaction was a factor in him being dropped, and how that seems to have worked because he's been much more hard working since getting back into the team.
You had made up your mind regardless. Not many who following Amad’s loan spells in ranger and Sunderland would agree with you. During those loan spells, he has already learned the importance to contribute in defensive part of game, in every third of pitch.
He was not short of effort in those aspects. There is nothing to justify “dropped” when he was not given minutes except very rare occasions he got minutes in the last 5, 10 mins.
Made up my mind about what? The video? It isn't an opinion, it's as clear as day on video that he lost the ball and sulked rather than helping the team, and that led to them scoring. His spells at Rangers and Sunderland don't absolve him from his responsibilities at Manchester United.
As I've said repeatedly though, his more recent cameos have been much better, and he deserves more playing time.
Just calm down please. Your opinion is non sense for me and many. It’s ok, no? People have different opinions. I don’t want to persuade or convince you but just let you know there are different opinions than yours.
I think Amad should become a ’big’ squad player for United:
1) He is very versatile. He can play on the right side, as a false nine (scored a goal v AC Milan after replacing martial) or as a number ten. We lack attacking players whose end product is not compromised by where they play.
2) During his time at Sunderland he showed that he can retain possession very well. Turnovers in attack/midfield are one of our team’s achilles heel and helps to explain why we have conceded so many shots/goals this season versus last. Obvious analogy with England cricket team in India; they only batted for over 100 overs in 2/10 innings in the test series therefore the English bowlers were knackered as they rarely benefited from decent rest time. In the same way our GK/defenders and DM never get much downtime in game.
3) His tracking back v Liverpool (admittedly only as a substitute) was impressive and effective whereas Bruno/Garnacho and Rashford are less effective, motivated and often concede dangerous free kicks.
4) He has great composure as a finisher.
5) For a player showing such potential he would cost a fortune to replace when there are so many other obvious priorities.
1) He is very versatile. He can play on the right side, as a false nine (scored a goal v AC Milan after replacing martial) or as a number ten. We lack attacking players whose end product is not compromised by where they play.
2) During his time at Sunderland he showed that he can retain possession very well. Turnovers in attack/midfield are one of our team’s achilles heel and helps to explain why we have conceded so many shots/goals this season versus last. Obvious analogy with England cricket team in India; they only batted for over 100 overs in 2/10 innings in the test series therefore the English bowlers were knackered as they rarely benefited from decent rest time. In the same way our GK/defenders and DM never get much downtime in game.
3) His tracking back v Liverpool (admittedly only as a substitute) was impressive and effective whereas Bruno/Garnacho and Rashford are less effective, motivated and often concede dangerous free kicks.
4) He has great composure as a finisher.
5) For a player showing such potential he would cost a fortune to replace when there are so many other obvious priorities.
I’d say that of your posts. What a bizarre take. You clearly have an agenda.
Your posts are so bizarre I'm genuinely wondering if they're parody!
He’s going to be 22 when next season starts. It’s surreal how little football he’s played in his career to date
IMO I’d loan him out next season to whichever top league team is going to make him a natural starter whenever he is fit.
He needs to start playing every week. See no benefit in him being a squad player in the short term
IMO I’d loan him out next season to whichever top league team is going to make him a natural starter whenever he is fit.
He needs to start playing every week. See no benefit in him being a squad player in the short term
What's my agenda? I've said multiple times that I think Amad has done well recently and earned more playing time.
Besides, you throwing around accusations of agendas, given you only seemed to comment in here as an excuse to froth at the mouth about Bruno, as pointed out by @Gabriel Djemba-Bebe.
There were five or six players who failed to get back behind the ball in that sequence of play. In other sequences in that same cameo appearance, he showed the appetite to track back. That one moment is not indicative of a particular problem with Amad's defensive application, relative to the rest of the team. Every one of our attacking players have moments in every single game where they show poor reactions to us losing possession. Rashford is utterly disinterested in defending all the time.
Amad's defending wasnt particularly poor in that game - has it really improved since? And generally, his cameos certainly haven't been better. Very impactful against Liverpool, obviously, but hasn't he had basically two nothing appearances between that one and the game in question? He was probably the best player on the pitch in the time he was on, in a game you highlight as a performance that justified him being dropped?
There were, but they'd all been on the pitch for a lot longer, and would be much more fatigued. Besides, the whataboutism is muddying the waters, no matter what other players did it was poor from him at a critical moment, and we conceded the winning goal as an immediate consequence. I also think that him being the best player on the pitch against Forest is quite the exaggeration. He was probably one of our better players, but generally everyone was pretty poor. He certainly didn't add enough to the team to displace any of our forwards.
I personally do think he's been better recently in his cameos, even in the ones you refer to as the nothing appearances he's demonstrated a better awareness of where he is on the pitch, in my opinion.
I get your point however if we sell Sancho, Antony and Pellistri this summer then Amad has to say. He'll be first to be rotated in for Rashford/Garnacho. Hopefully he puts in a few more good performances before the end of the season which will have Rashford looking over his shoulder.
Your agenda is some weird take that Amad was massively to blame in Forrest’s goal and his subsequent lack of minutes was a result.
Sorry where have I said anything here about Bruno that wasn’t said at the time by the vast majority? The ball made its way all the way across the box due to Bruno dummying the cross. If he dummied it, he could have played it. Bruno’s decision led to the counter. The pass was played into him. You can’t dummy a pass that doesn’t arrive into your path.
@Gabriel Djemba-Bebe is one of a strange few posters who can’t abide criticism of Bruno and end up having a hissy fit.
There's fair criticism and then there's weird obsessive hate, and most of your Bruno comments fall into the latter category. At times, I have criticised his performances myself - see my comments after the Luton game.
Can you give me some examples?
Examples of you obsessively hating on Bruno or examples of me posting fair criticism after I think he's had a bad game? FYI, this is probably not the right thread for it.
Why are you guys arguing about Bruno in the Amad thread? I clicked here expecting news of our hero!
Unfortunately certain posters allow their rage towards a player to spill out into other threads, and it inevitably gets called out for the agenda-driven bullshit that patently is. I'm happy to move this conversation into the relevant player thread as I don't want to derail it any further. I too came on here yesterday hoping to see a new clip of Amad's goal that I hadn't already watched 20 times, but alas, @Jeppers7 couldn't help himself.
Do you agree that Amad was at fault for the Forrest goal? My post simply responded to a posters weird observation that the fault was in Amads pass. This is Amads thread. If I want to stick up for him in it I will do.
You saw Bruno being cited as at fault and couldn’t help yourself. You got involved because of your own agenda, turning the Amad thread into a point scoring exercise. You’re still at it.
So put them in the Bruno thread? Examples where my criticisms aren’t fair.
Kids.
Anyone know why Amad isn’t with Cote d’Ivoire this NT break? It would be a good time to include him now, to change things up a bit after their AFCON win.
Anyone know why Amad isn’t with Cote d’Ivoire this NT break? It would be a good time to include him now, to change things up a bit after their AFCON win.
You already know that I don't think Amad was at fault for that goal as I clearly stated this in response to you earlier.
Below is your post that you claim was a simple response in defence of Amad. Barely a mention of him. Just sentence after sentence berating Bruno.
Doubt if Antony is leaving. Pelli yes.
I remember around a month ago reading that we were open to offers for Antony this summer, so you never know - we might get lucky and receive an acceptable bid for him. If not, I'm still confident that Amad will be above him in the pecking order next season regardless of who the manager is.
That doesn't make sense at all, hence your flawed logic and reading of the play. If Bruno knew he wasn't getting to the ball then he should have challenged, taken a touch, blocked or run onto it i.e do anything to actually affect the ball/play because it was in the most advantageous and dangerous area of the pitch for us. As I said above, he may not have gotten a 'clean' touch to take into stride/set himself for a shot but it was definitely available where he could have taken a push touch and initiate contact for a penalty type situation. Not that I'm suggesting he should dive but it's a very typical 'loose but reachable ball in a crowded penalty box with an incoming player' situation we see several times a game.
In no logical world would a player dummy/leave a ball if he knows he's not getting it in that situation. I would understand if it was in the middle of the pitch and he saw a defender come thundering with a two footed challenge but this was in the penalty box where he absolutely had a chance to do something. Well he did do something, which was the worst possible option.
As for for your last line, that one incident can't be used as some definitive evidence to suggest your highly subjective opinion of him being dropped as a result of it.
Has he not be loaned out enough at this stage? Keep him, give him a chance and if he's not up to it sell. I think his talent alone added to that goal shows he deserves a shot.
What is enough? He had a spell at rangers which was a complete waste of time and then spell at Sunderland which was successful and kicked him on until another injury and lack of opportunities at United killed it
He is going to be 22 and having played only a handful of professional football. It’s crazy. He 100% needs to be at a top level club next season playing every week. Otherwise his potential will stagnate imo. He needs minutes desperately
This is my last post on this, so the thread can return to what it was before you joined the discussion.
It never ceases to amaze me how posters in here ignore context just because they want to try to point score and get butt hurt about a player they love.
Here is the post I responded to….
Every single point I made is in response to a post claiming Amad was at fault for the goal for numerous reasons. Had those reasons not been put forward then I wouldn’t have countered them, would I? The post starts with my opinion that Amad plays a good pass across the goal into the path of a teammate, first time while running away from goal and into an area that had the best chance of being successful.
It doesn’t matter who the, in my opinion, offending player actually was….my opinion is that Amad played a good pass. Reacted in the same way as others, others didn’t manage to get back into the shot and the goal was scored from a position on the pitch that you wouldn’t have expected him to cover.
Two to three days after the initial post that I replied to, after my response to the initial poster, it has sparked debate around the actual post and the claims that Amad was dropped as a result. Both claims of which I think are inaccurate and false. So it’s being debated.
All you’ve done is turn this thread into a playground.
He has something like 75 or 80 professional games to his name, albeit a lot of substitutions in there, but for a 21 year old at a big club it’s certainly not unheard of.
If he is on a path of getting increasing minutes at United, I wouldn’t worry for him.
If not, I agree.
Agree with this post. He played a good cross. Bruno I think was running onto it and could have hit it first time but chose to dummy, noone behind him so Forest break. There are 5 United players in shot when Forest score. So sure Amad didn't make it back, which probably he should have, but nor did 4 other United players. The narrative to blame players or make excuses for them not getting game time. Antony came on against Wolves and was awful, gave the ball away multiple times and lost it on edge of the Wolves box by running into trouble, they broke and scored third goal. Someone posted he also lost it for their second goal but not sure. Yet Antony went on to get regular sub minutes post that and also started ahead of Amad.
We'll likely be in the Europa League next year, there should be opportunities with us first half of the year, and if he takes them then he'll get more in the 2nd half, if he doesn't then perhaps he'll go on loan or be sold.
If we ignore the unearned arrogance and belittling of other posters in an attempt to further your point, what's left is a blatant misrepresentation of what my "agenda" is. So let's get back to the original point, that way you can debate that rather than the myriad of strawmen you've been throwing up. I'll even, for the sake of this argument, accept your warped description of the actual events, as it doesn't impact my actual point:
Do you think that, after losing the ball, a player waving their arms and not making any effort to get it back or get back into position is acceptable? Very late, in a very tight game, with the opposition breaking, and with said player much fresher than their peers, having played less than a half of football? If you don't think that attitude should earn more minutes for a young player trying to break into the team, then we agree. If you do then clearly we have different expectations.
It's quite arrogant for you to claim to be the arbiter as to what's "logical". Given that Bruno has multiple famous moments with us dummying the ball for other players in the opposition box. It wasn't the right decision this time, but it has been in the past, so your absolutest argument is objectively false.
As for this particular incident, Bruno wasn't getting to that ball first, it wasn't played into his path and was closer to the defender, so at best he'd have been second favourite, challenging off balance having had to break his run, and it's unlikely we'd have seen a different result. In hindsight, that is still the better option than letting the ball run past him, he took a gamble that a United player was behind him, and it didn't pay off.
My final sentence isn't highly subjective, it's factual that he was dropped, or at least didn't do enough to earn more minutes. My point in it's entirety is that, contrary to some posters suggesting there's no justification for that, his reaction at such a crucial juncture, which was complaining and then doing nothing to recover, when he was our freshest player on the pitch, likely influenced that decision.
You would need a view of the entire pitch to know that because just as the camera pulls away from Amad you can clearly see him start to run. Nobody from the penalty area ends up back in the frame before the shot is taken from Gibbs White.
You are merely speculating as if it is fact that Amad made ‘no effort’ to get back, as there is evidence that he did. Can you find an alternative view of the goal that includes Amad in the frame? Otherwise I’ve no grounds to base an opinion on his attitude.
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