Rijkaard/Iniesta/Effenberg is no better than Xavi/Davids/Platini. Completely ludicrous to think so, even with your inflated opinion of Iniesta it doesn't add up.
All-Time Fantasy Draft
- Thread starter antohan
- Start date
Wednesday is fine with me also.
Come on NM!
Where the hell are you?
Where the hell are you?
It's like 4.30 in the morning for him I think.
Btw just read that according to some guy in this thread, Messi and Ronaldo are not yet in all time greats!
What type of lunacy is that?
What type of lunacy is that?
Well fantasy drafts are serious business.
Team DanNistelrooy Semi Final Team
Formation: 4-2-3-1
Tactics:
To put it simply, though both are great teams, Cutch's defence just won't be able to cope with my attack. My defence is far better equipped to nullify his attack.
The general mentality of the team will be to attack and it would be silly not with a quartet of Cristiano Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Platini and Puskas. With Puskas I have one of the best forwards in the draft and who better to finish the chances that Ronaldinho, Cristiano Ronaldo and Platini will provide. He will be fed by the ridiculously creative trio of Platini, Ronaldinho and Cristiano Ronaldo. All of that front 4 is capable of creating and scoring goals against any defence. In Ronaldinho and Platini I have 2 of the best creative players to have played the game and they will perfectly compliment the goal scoring machines of Ronaldo and Puskas.
Although the team has strengths in attacking, they are able to focus on this thanks to a top defence including the best defender of his generation in Nesta and another World Cup winner and ex Germany captain in Vogts.
In midfield I have gone for an all action, strong, mobile pairing of Edgar Davids and Scholes. Both proven at the highest level having league titles and Champions League medals.They provide the perfect balance of ball retention and defensive steel.
I also have a very interesting PLAN B which involves Lothar Matthaus from the bench, what better player to bring on to spur the team to victory.
Petr Cech
During Chelsea’s dominance from 2004-2006 he was the best in the world and a key reason for Chelsea’s tight defence in those years. There is no doubt that Chelsea were lucky to win the European cup in 2012 but Cech pulled off some of the best performances I have seen from a keeper in that run – notable performances against Barcelona and Bayern, in particularly the decisive spot kick save from Schweinsteiger.
Berti Vogts
Winner of the World Cup and European Championships with Germany. Also took over the captaincy from Beckenbauer in 1977 so at right back I have a solid player of proper quality.
Alessandro Nesta
Another World Cup winner and also the best centre half of his generation and the finest reader of the game I have seen. The timing of his tackling in his prime was a joy to watch.
Paul McGrath
Imperious centre back and another fine reader of the game. On his day there were few better. Notable performances include the opening game of the 1994 World Cup against Italy. McGrath’s performance in this match went down as one of the best defensive displays ever against Baggio and Signori. Franco Baresi, a frequent contender for the title of best ever central defender, could merely clap watching McGrath’s performance that day.
Jose Antonio Camacho
414 appearances for Real Madrid and a fixture at left back during their dominance of the Spanish League in the 70/80s with NINE league titles to his name.
Paul Scholes
Scholes is arguably the best midfielder of his generation. One of the best passers to play the game and will provide the front 4 with plenty of the ball.
Edgar Davids
All action midfielder, who will be asked to play a disciplined role in midfield alongside Toure. Champions League winner and iconic figure whilst I was growing up. He is full of energy, drive and class on the ball they provide a superb platform for Ronaldinho/Ronaldo/Platini/Puskas to attack.
Michel Platini
One of the best players in the draft. Arguably the greatest passer of the ball of all time and the perfect man to create and score from the advanced midfield position. Winner of the Ballon d'Or for THREE consecutive players, genius of a midfielder and big game player.
Ronaldinho
During his prime years is quite simply the best player I have ever seen. He was one of those players who could create something out of nothing and he did this against some of the tightest defences in recent history. Notably THAT goal against Chelsea but a personal favourite is this pass at 1:41 in a tight semi final vs a Milan side with one of the best defences out there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52oP6RDpOhU . Just one more clip for Ronaldinho and this one I still regard as the best individual performance since my time of watching football, the 2005 El Classico http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjabWksidPs I hope you watch those 2 clips as they are well worth a watch.
Cristiano Ronaldo
Not much needs to be said about him, the best United player in recent times and has turned into a goal scoring freak since his move to Madrid. If it wasn’t for Lionel Messi I think we would be talking about Ronaldo being one of the best ever.
Ferenc Puskás
A machine of a striker up top, capable of scoring against any defence and with a goal record 508 goals in 521 appearances there are few better strikers in the draft, if any. Perfect man to lead the line and finish off chances that Ronaldo/Ronaldinho and Platini will provide
Subs:
Formation: 4-2-3-1
Tactics:
To put it simply, though both are great teams, Cutch's defence just won't be able to cope with my attack. My defence is far better equipped to nullify his attack.
The general mentality of the team will be to attack and it would be silly not with a quartet of Cristiano Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Platini and Puskas. With Puskas I have one of the best forwards in the draft and who better to finish the chances that Ronaldinho, Cristiano Ronaldo and Platini will provide. He will be fed by the ridiculously creative trio of Platini, Ronaldinho and Cristiano Ronaldo. All of that front 4 is capable of creating and scoring goals against any defence. In Ronaldinho and Platini I have 2 of the best creative players to have played the game and they will perfectly compliment the goal scoring machines of Ronaldo and Puskas.
Although the team has strengths in attacking, they are able to focus on this thanks to a top defence including the best defender of his generation in Nesta and another World Cup winner and ex Germany captain in Vogts.
In midfield I have gone for an all action, strong, mobile pairing of Edgar Davids and Scholes. Both proven at the highest level having league titles and Champions League medals.They provide the perfect balance of ball retention and defensive steel.
I also have a very interesting PLAN B which involves Lothar Matthaus from the bench, what better player to bring on to spur the team to victory.
Petr Cech
During Chelsea’s dominance from 2004-2006 he was the best in the world and a key reason for Chelsea’s tight defence in those years. There is no doubt that Chelsea were lucky to win the European cup in 2012 but Cech pulled off some of the best performances I have seen from a keeper in that run – notable performances against Barcelona and Bayern, in particularly the decisive spot kick save from Schweinsteiger.
Berti Vogts
Winner of the World Cup and European Championships with Germany. Also took over the captaincy from Beckenbauer in 1977 so at right back I have a solid player of proper quality.
Alessandro Nesta
Another World Cup winner and also the best centre half of his generation and the finest reader of the game I have seen. The timing of his tackling in his prime was a joy to watch.
Paul McGrath
Imperious centre back and another fine reader of the game. On his day there were few better. Notable performances include the opening game of the 1994 World Cup against Italy. McGrath’s performance in this match went down as one of the best defensive displays ever against Baggio and Signori. Franco Baresi, a frequent contender for the title of best ever central defender, could merely clap watching McGrath’s performance that day.
Jose Antonio Camacho
414 appearances for Real Madrid and a fixture at left back during their dominance of the Spanish League in the 70/80s with NINE league titles to his name.
Paul Scholes
Scholes is arguably the best midfielder of his generation. One of the best passers to play the game and will provide the front 4 with plenty of the ball.
Edgar Davids
All action midfielder, who will be asked to play a disciplined role in midfield alongside Toure. Champions League winner and iconic figure whilst I was growing up. He is full of energy, drive and class on the ball they provide a superb platform for Ronaldinho/Ronaldo/Platini/Puskas to attack.
Michel Platini
One of the best players in the draft. Arguably the greatest passer of the ball of all time and the perfect man to create and score from the advanced midfield position. Winner of the Ballon d'Or for THREE consecutive players, genius of a midfielder and big game player.
Ronaldinho
During his prime years is quite simply the best player I have ever seen. He was one of those players who could create something out of nothing and he did this against some of the tightest defences in recent history. Notably THAT goal against Chelsea but a personal favourite is this pass at 1:41 in a tight semi final vs a Milan side with one of the best defences out there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52oP6RDpOhU . Just one more clip for Ronaldinho and this one I still regard as the best individual performance since my time of watching football, the 2005 El Classico http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjabWksidPs I hope you watch those 2 clips as they are well worth a watch.
Cristiano Ronaldo
Not much needs to be said about him, the best United player in recent times and has turned into a goal scoring freak since his move to Madrid. If it wasn’t for Lionel Messi I think we would be talking about Ronaldo being one of the best ever.
Ferenc Puskás
A machine of a striker up top, capable of scoring against any defence and with a goal record 508 goals in 521 appearances there are few better strikers in the draft, if any. Perfect man to lead the line and finish off chances that Ronaldo/Ronaldinho and Platini will provide
Subs:
Robin Van Persie
Great option to bring off the bench, in fact it feels ridiculous having him on the bench in the first place but the nationality rule has forced my hand. If we are talking about primes, there has been no striker better than him since 2011.
Didier Drogba
What a player to lead the line. Dragged Chelsea to the European Cup in 2012 with some immense performances in the knockout stages and final. In his prime I don’ think there is another striker who is more difficult to handle. In terms of "Big Game Players" he was also up there with the best and that surely helps when coming up against the quality of defenders in this draft?
Paul Gascoigne
People often talk about what could have been with Gascoigne but there is no doubt about his quality and ability on his day. The most talented and exciting English player I have ever seen. His flair, dribbling and unpredictability will pose a threat for any defender. Sir Alex Ferguson’s biggest regret was not signing Gascoigne.
Claude Makelele
He has the defensive midfield position name after him. He was a key figure for the “Galacticos” of Real Madrid and although didn’t get as much recognition as Figo/Zidane/Ronaldo, he was just as important to their dominance. This continued to his time with Chelsea. Champions League winner, along with league titles in France, England and Spain.
Yaya Toure
Key player for both Barca and City, winning League Titles with both and a European Cup too. Equally effective in the holding midfield role and box-to-box or attacking role. Was an integral part of Barca's Champions League winning side at the start of the Guardiola era playing in the holding midfield role. Beast of a midfielder, arguably the best in the league and one City are extremely lucky to have.
Lothar Matthäus
Arguably the best midfielder of his generation. Box to box, with a winning mentality. Winner of the lot on both the international and club stage
Clarence Seedorf
A true great of his generation and with his engine and ball control will prove the perfect partner for Makelele. Winner of the Champions League with 3 different teams and also a league Champion in Holland, Spain and Italy. One of the best “box to box” midfielders in his prime and also scorer of one of my favourite goals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGQ6speL4Ww
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Great option to bring off the bench, in fact it feels ridiculous having him on the bench in the first place but the nationality rule has forced my hand. If we are talking about primes, there has been no striker better than him since 2011.
Didier Drogba
What a player to lead the line. Dragged Chelsea to the European Cup in 2012 with some immense performances in the knockout stages and final. In his prime I don’ think there is another striker who is more difficult to handle. In terms of "Big Game Players" he was also up there with the best and that surely helps when coming up against the quality of defenders in this draft?
Paul Gascoigne
People often talk about what could have been with Gascoigne but there is no doubt about his quality and ability on his day. The most talented and exciting English player I have ever seen. His flair, dribbling and unpredictability will pose a threat for any defender. Sir Alex Ferguson’s biggest regret was not signing Gascoigne.
Claude Makelele
He has the defensive midfield position name after him. He was a key figure for the “Galacticos” of Real Madrid and although didn’t get as much recognition as Figo/Zidane/Ronaldo, he was just as important to their dominance. This continued to his time with Chelsea. Champions League winner, along with league titles in France, England and Spain.
Yaya Toure
Key player for both Barca and City, winning League Titles with both and a European Cup too. Equally effective in the holding midfield role and box-to-box or attacking role. Was an integral part of Barca's Champions League winning side at the start of the Guardiola era playing in the holding midfield role. Beast of a midfielder, arguably the best in the league and one City are extremely lucky to have.
Lothar Matthäus
Arguably the best midfielder of his generation. Box to box, with a winning mentality. Winner of the lot on both the international and club stage
Clarence Seedorf
A true great of his generation and with his engine and ball control will prove the perfect partner for Makelele. Winner of the Champions League with 3 different teams and also a league Champion in Holland, Spain and Italy. One of the best “box to box” midfielders in his prime and also scorer of one of my favourite goals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGQ6speL4Ww
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I can't believe you've even got the audacity to come out with that after the swathes of one-sided bias you fed the Caf during our match. Which is fine. But don't go pretending you're somehow seperate from this "warped reality" that others seem to encourage.
Well, the problem is, if you only look at the big games, you get a different impression. For this draft it probably shouldn't be taken into account, but it was one of the reasons why he moved to that libero position.
Bayern in the seventies was frustrating very often. It's mind blowing that Gladbach won more league titles than Bayern with Beckenbauer in 13 years. In 74/75 and 75/76 Bayern finished 10th and 3rd in the league while winning the champions league (I don't know how it was called in english back then). Beckenbauer himself stated often, he didn't care about league games in those years, he was only able to motivate himself for big games. Of course it's explainable by winning everything between 72 and 74, but still it shows how wasteful he could be if he wasn't interested. Similar problems showed after 66. Bayern really struggled in 67 in the league while winning the cup winner's cup in europe, for example. So they found a way for him to have fun and play to his strenth at the same time while others did the dirty work. Bayern started to perform consistently the moment Beckenbauer moved into his new position in 68/69, winning the first league title in the Bundesliga and finishing top2 every season until 74/75.
Your example for his arrogance points into a similar direction, it was even worse in normal games. In no way would he do a similar job to that man-marking of Charlton during his prime, let's say between 70 and 76.
Well yeah okay, good point. But still, Beckenbauer isn't the typical german footballer, is he? That would be Matthäus, imo.Remember these are Germans we are talking about. Different par for the course.
I always think it's sad when that german team of the seventies is best known for winning the world cup as an hard working, effective unit when we played unbelievable beautiful football in 72. All that fighting between the players and Helmut Schön during the world cup lead to basically Beckenbauer coaching the team, making it all about winning first.
/edit: which of course is great. Sounds very negative when I read it again. I love the guy, probably because he was so much more than the usual german footballer.
Beckenbauer's career path is set on tangents, though. After '66, he could've easily gone on to play a career doing the same thing in midfield. I was going to come in and post some of the stuff you did in your second post below, actually.
I don't think there's any doubt whatsoever that he would have a similar legacy even if he never played 'libero' or in defence at all, as in big games and against the great opponents he was imperious and relished the occasion.
I'm getting at the notion Beckenbauer is out of place in midfield when, in fact, he's superior there to all but a minute percent in the whole draft and also the idea a manager would be penalised for utilising him there. which is absurd to me.
I'm not really here to change anyone's stance. I know for many Beckenbauer = 'libero' in the most ambiguous sense of the word and that's that as far as they're concerned.
You have to remember this draft is about prime.. form.. in the case of someone like Beckenbauer whose actual peak is pretty difficult to define. In big games, like this whole draft would be, he would be 100% switched on and relishing the challenges ahead of him.
He's one of the biggest big game players in the draft, so he's likely to show his best form in games like these.
I have a realistic appreciation of all players, old or new. I lean only towards players who I think are better.
Fact is with Varela - and in my defence I know who he is now it was mentioned - is nobody has seen much of him play. Footage from that era dictates this. So it's all well and good picking players from the 1930s to 1950s World Cups, but nobody on here can pretend they've watched lots of them and your age doesn't come into that. Simply, the coverage wasn't as good. Even worse I'd say that any YouTube highlights available of a current player.
Apart from anything else, the standard 60 years ago is not what it is today. That makes a big difference. Stanley Matthews may have been a wing wizard then, but I question how easily he's beating Ashley Cole, Paolo Maldini or Bixente Lizarazu. He played into his 50s because he was ahead of the game. Comparatively, everyone is ahead of the game now.
So when is the cut-off point for when the standards rose to an acceptable level? Is Di Stéfano seen as a worse player than Ronaldinho because he was at his peak 60 years before the Brazilian? Is Pelé worse than Zidane?
Giggs is going to play into his 40s and there's three reasons for that - he has terrific technique, a wonderful footballing brain and he's an outstanding professional. Matthews played on for that long not because the standards were so poor but because he looked after himself well and his core qualities were timeless. You know Di Stéfano, Pelé, Beckenbauer and Maradona would still be tearing teams apart today because they were complete masters of the ball first and foremost, and because they turned up on the big occasions.
Why do you think Matthews is still regarded above Bryan Robson for example?
Giggs is going to play into his 40s and there's three reasons for that - he has terrific technique, a wonderful footballing brain and he's an outstanding professional. Matthews played on for that long not because the standards were so poor but because he looked after himself well and his core qualities were timeless. You know Di Stéfano, Pelé, Beckenbauer and Maradona would still be tearing teams apart today because they were complete masters of the ball first and foremost, and because they turned up on the big occasions.
Why do you think Matthews is still regarded above Bryan Robson for example?
It's hardly as black and white as that. Do you seriously disagree about standards across the board, professionalism and fitness amongst other things being better now?!
Both the old timers you name are better, so that's the answer btw.
You've added to your post so I will reply further; Di Stefano, Pele, Maradona and Beckenbauer would obviously be modern greats. I never questioned that whatsoever.
I should be able to do any day if Brwned is strugglin to make Thursday.
I agree with everything in your post. I wrote all that stuff because Brwned talked about the reasons for him revolutionising the libero role and I thought it would put his move into that role into context. I wrote in one of the threads, that I'm sure Beckenbauer would play in midfield in the modern game and would be the standout player in that role without a doubt. I usally don't reduce his influence to defending, when he played as a libero. He was well known for his 1-2s with Müller in the penalty box while playing as a defender, which should speak for itself. The position gave him the possibility to influence the game wherever he thought it was needed. His great reading of the game, his tactical awareness and his abilities on the ball made him one of the most influential players to his team ever. Your absolutely right, he's one of the biggest big game players of all time. He could influence tactics, motivation, score when a goal is needed, organise the defense. And he did it several times in the most important games in the world.
Depends on what the rest of the side looks like, what the tactics are, what everyone is doing, etc. Names alone mean jack. e.g. in Barca's current side you would go with Rijkaard-Xavi-Iniesta ahead of any other combination, doesn't mean I have two of the best three, nor make that the best combiantion if the rest of the side is not like Barca's.
It's pretty basic stuff really.
No I don't disagree, I was asking a genuine question. Would something like pre-TV era be the point where doubt creeps in?
What about the comments on Matthews from those on this forum who saw him? If they've seen it all from Matthews right through to Messi and they still think Matthews compares then does that count for anything?
If he's up there with Giggs, Best and Ronaldo then he must be a pretty formidable opponent for Cole, no?
Greatest players you've seen live
Greatest English players you've seen live
That I've seen:
Ron Harris (but of course
Bobby Moore
Kevin Keegan (surprised no scousers have mentioned him)
Stanley Matthews
Gordon Banks
See above. I'm not saying Effenberg-Iniesta are better than Davids-Xavi. I'm saying midfields don't work like that, as I did on the thread. It's fine to make relative comparison to gage quality, but it doesn't land you at unquestionable superiorities without the rest of the side being taken into account.
Oh OK.
I'm assuming you are a collector of Kicker magazine?
That '72 side is the best footballing side you guys ever produced. It's a shame for Netzer he never got the nod in '74. His ability deserves a much higher standing in the game than it has. He's got to be top 10 passer of all-time.
Leaving that aside, I think you had major rework to do across the side before looking at pairing those two up. Sure vote winner though and it may well be that if you win you can get enough elsewhere on the pitch to be competitive (haven't looked into your sides in detail), but you may be getting yourself into a trap there.
Oh OK.
I'm assuming you are a collector of Kicker magazine?
That '72 side is the best footballing side you guys ever produced. It's a shame for Netzer he never got the nod in '74. His ability deserves a much higher standing in the game than it has. He's got to be top 10 passer of all-time.
I inherited about 2000 Kicker magazines from the fifties to seventies from my grandfather, read a few of them. I stopped buying and collecting them in 2004 when the drop in quality started to annoy me more than I enjoyed reading it.
Yes, that '72 side is magnificent. My father would instantly bang his head into a wall if I asked him why Germany didn't play with Netzer and Overath
. After all, no one really cares what could have been in 74. We won the world cup at home, great stuff.For a German side to rework it's entire foundation to accommodate a player, you can only conclude he was a once-in-a-generation talent. Nothing new, but I wonder how many players they would have ever done that for. And the great part is it worked, and they were immensely successful at the highest levels.
You also have to qualify that by pointing out something some may not know: Bayern was not the powerhouse it is today. It was only with that generation that they came to prominence, so I can see how the road from promotion to conquering the football world was more appealing than the week-in week-out discipline needed to dominate the league consistently.
Well I thought the midfield was blatantly my weakest part in the previous round, with the introduction of Breitner, I've hopefully rectified that.
The presence of Sammer(East German, hehe!) gives me a chance to play either a 5-3-2 or a 4-3-3 as he was world class in both the libero in Euro 96 and as a midfielder for Dortmund in early 90's.
Plus it's Ronaldo and Messi together, sometimes the sensibilities have to be thrown out!
The presence of Sammer(East German, hehe!) gives me a chance to play either a 5-3-2 or a 4-3-3 as he was world class in both the libero in Euro 96 and as a midfielder for Dortmund in early 90's.
Plus it's Ronaldo and Messi together, sometimes the sensibilities have to be thrown out!
I inherited about 2000 Kicker magazines from the fifties to seventies from my grandfather, read a few of them. I stopped buying and collecting them in 2004 when the drop in quality started to annoy me more than I enjoyed reading it.
Yes, that '72 side is magnificent. My father would instantly bang his head into a wall if I asked him why Germany didn't play with Netzer and Overath
That's quite a fortune you're sitting on!
Lucky for you! Excellent magazine that it used to be!
How is Netzer regarded in Germany? He's very rarely spoken of over here or in general, which is a shame.
Mate, I wasn't having a go. Just pointing out your leaning towards players who you think are better is primarily focused on modern players you have seen in abundance or a few token oldies there's sufficient/loads of evidence for. You also do place a lot of emphasis on how competitive old school players would be today.
Which is exactly what you went on to admit and describe. I'm not saying you are biased or unfair, but you are fair within a certain framework which does not make it a level playing field if, for example, you had to decide the game between Dan and MBR. You were only ever going to go with Dan there, because it is the side you can fully appreciate in all its glory.
There's nothing wrong with that. It's reasonable that people go with what they know to make a judgement call and everyone is absolutely entitled to vote on that basis. But a vote caster is some sort of ombudsman who should know and see all to be able to keep the playing field level. I doubt there are many (or any) people on here who fit that description.
Nothing to do with you per se.
But lots of people saw them live and have passed on what they saw. Then there are books, magazines, newspaper cuts... I explained how my grandfather was a founder of the Uruguayan FA and went to several pre-TV World Cups. I wouldn't expect to have any chance of winning a final with a bunch of players being bigged up (and perceived as manager's bullshit) on account of his views, but if you can't play these fellas and pass on the stories, like Balu has done for Janes, for instance, then what is the point? These sort of players should be cut some slack early on, will most likely be gone by the final, but certainly should participate and be appreciated.
True for most cases, but otherwise we would wind up with no all-time draft. There are certain positions where that is way more relevant than others and I would expect that to be a major factor indeed.
I think Netzer is in that bracket behind Walter, Beckenbauer and Matthäus. I really don't read as much german all time lists or german football boards to know about his rank. I think Germans are proud of him because of his time at Real, he was the first german player to leave for such a huge club. He was talked a lot about when Özil and Khedira left and lots of comparisons to Netzer/Breitner were in the media. You know, two germans at Real, one working hard the other one the magician. He worked as a tv pundit for years, so he's well known to the public as well. Not sure if his ability is fully appreaciated, though.
That's quite a fortune you're sitting on!
Lucky for you! Excellent magazine that it used to be!
How is Netzer regarded in Germany? He's very rarely spoken of over here or in general, which is a shame.
The expertise you get from people or sources that have lived through the era is always so much more insightful. I had a similar inheritance recently through my uncle's World Soccer magazines dating back to the 1980s.
Ah yeah, okay. I thought, that was well known. Bayern weren't allowed to play in the Bundesliga in its first season in 63/64 because two clubs from one city didn't make sense to the FA and local rival TSV 1860 München were the more successful team back then. Bayern first played in the Bundesliga 2 years later in 65/66, finishing 3rd (with the local rival winning the league). Bayern won the german FA Cup that season and the european cup winner's cup the next season. Those years were the start of the club's success over the next decades.
More importantly, there are 2 funny stories about Beckenbauer and Gerd Müller and why they played for Bayern and not for 1860.
In 1958, 13 year old Franz Beckenbauer already had the plan to play for 1860 next season, but in a youth game with his childhood club against 1860 he got into a fight with one of their players who gave him a slap in the face. So he decided to sign for Bayern instead.
Gerd Müller played for Nördlingen in 1963 and 1860 wanted to sign him. One day Bayern's director found out that Müller was expected to sign the contract later that day and decided to drive to his home. He arrived an hour earlier than his rival and convinced Müller to sign for Bayern.
Both were maybe the most important players for Bayern ever and after 1965 1860 München never won anything again while Bayern are dominating the league until today. Probably two of the more important reasons why Munich is red and not blue (1860's colour) and we have very bitter neighbours.
Yes, it helps to put all the highlights and big games you actually can watch to put into context. So, reading 2000 magazines takes so much time, I picked out a few with interesting topics.
That's amazing about Beckenbauer, Muller and 1860.
Thanks for sharing Balu.
Thanks for sharing Balu.
Great stuff as usual mate.
I'm not sure how many knew. I only have memories of a world where Bayern were one of the top clubs and it was only a few years ago, intrigued by that Beckenbauer quote ("Everything that FC Bayern has become is due to Gerd Muller and his goals"), that I looked closer and realised what an amazing success story it is.
Wonder who that 1860 youth player was. They should crucify him
Wonder who that 1860 youth player was. They should crucify him
The whole club is a joke. The fans would tell you that they didn't want that arrogant prick to play for the club anyway or something like that.
The youth player was Gerhard König. They met a few years ago:
One quote from that meeting:
"Auch König hat die Szene noch genau vor Augen. "Ich war Verteidiger, der Franz war Mittelstürmer. Da hat er mich ausgespielt. Ich hab geguckt, wo der Schiedsrichter war und hab ihm eine Watsch'n gegeben. Ich wusste damals schon, mit wem ich es zu tun habe, denn Franz war ein Riesentalent.""
Loosely translated:
König remembers that scene well. "I've played as a defender, Franz as a forward. He outplayed me, so I looked around, to know where the referee is looking at and gave him a slap. I already knew back then, who he was, and that Franz was a huge talent."
Like I said, bunch of idiots, the whole club.
There seems to be a cut-off period around about the mid-1950s. The lack of video footage doesn't help, nor does the absence of a European Cup or Ballon D'Or to contextualise quality. I'd be surprised if there's a single player starting in the quarter-finals who didn't kick a ball competitively after 1960 which is a shame when we're losing talent of the calibre of Moreno and Nasazzi. But it's clear that those players simply are not going to accrue votes as MBR's fate amply demonstrated.
Yep, one reason we went for Zanetti now.
The Manchester parallel becomes increasingly uncanny
Yeah it's all so similar. Starting with the colours down to consistently underachieving and having a rich arab owner. 1860 are the first german club who was bought by some guy from Jordan with no one really knowing where the money is coming from. Oh and he wanted Sven-Göran Eriksson as the manager. Funny thing is, it seems like he didn't knew about the german regulations regarding the influence of the owner, so he spent millions without being allowed to influence any decisions and well, the club's director is again an idiot so the club stays in the 2. Bundesliga for next season.
But enough about german football, really looking forward to the teams after the draft round.
How am i lookin folks?