All-Time Fantasy Draft

:lol: Knew you thought we were doing that!

It has been discussed as an option but not settled yet, Maldini wasn't picked up for specifically that purpose.

Passarella doesn't deserve to get kicked out either
 
As I told NM, I think you have four options now, arguments for and against on all of them.

You have already ruled out the one I was worried about.
 
Cutch said:
Zanetti was the final piece in my jigsaw. You bastard Antohan. Knew you were the only one would want him but didn't think you'd ditch Andrade
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I was surprised you didn't take him. That was partly the whole discussion with Aldo, he couldn't see why we needed Zanetti and in real life we probably wouldn't, but I can't risk going all the way to the semi and possibly the final entirely reliant on a guy that voters could turn on overnight, even if with no good reason at all.

Thuram meant Henry out :nono:, not as much on offer attack-wise, and no proven ability as a midfielder, which I would rather have on that flank for cover purposes.

And I also love the guy to bits. I spent the entire draft wondering whether to plump for Zanetti or ride Andrade as a late pick! Never even considered another RB.
 
Stobzilla - Matthaus
Antohan - Beckenbauer, Zanetti
Brwned - Baresi, Eusébio
Cutch - Edwards, Figo
NM - Figueroa, Maldini
Thisistheone - Cruyff, Garrincha
KM - Breitner, Ronaldo
DanNistlerooy -Platini, Ferenc Puskás
 
Crustanoid said:
Messi and Ronaldo are modern day heroes, but are they in the all time greats yet? Only time will tell.
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Ronaldo is basically retired for some time already. How this 'time will tell' will work then? :D
 
Isotope said:
Ronaldo is basically retired for some time already. How this 'time will tell' will work then? :D
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Just realised Picture Manager doesn't do conversions to sepia, but this will do for him to enter the pantheon.

2ighfyx.jpg
 
NM said:
I just PM'd you to tell you that I don't plan on taking who you think I'm going to take once I beat you.
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It gets better, now you post to tell us what you just PMd about the hypothetical pick after a hypothetical win.

You guys are really overanalysing this.
 
Don't forget, NM can picture how the game will go for 90 minutes :lol:
 
Stobzilla said:
A HA !!!! Up yours good sir....
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Well done mate. I thought you would have gone to sleep. Was actually PMing Aldo telling him not to jump straight in as I thought it would be a bit unfair to run past you when landed with 1:13-7:13!
 
So now, either.

Cafu
Puyol
Vidic/Happel
Montero/Happel

Matthaus
Souness
Scholes

Zidane
Kubala/Savicevic

Van Nistlerooy.

Or.

Cafu
Vidic
Happel
Montero

Matthaus
Xavi
Scholes

Zidane
Kubala/Savicevic

Van Nistlerooy/Kubala
 
Sorry again chaps, was our last chance to scupper NMs cunning plan, in this case the fourth option which I expect to be an unmitigated disaster.

Again, going for what suits us.

Iniesta and Henry will be happy chaps but, more than anyone, both our new recruit and Laudrup will revel in it.

ob_a482e1_01-el-bulgaro-muestra-el-balon-de-54357055341-541.jpg
 
BTW, Brwned sent me a beautifully crafted PM on his next player with photos and all that but I deleted it by accident when emptying my inbox.

Mate, I'll happily copy paste it on this post if you resend it.

Brwned's pick is one of the original Dutch masters Ruud Krol

ruud_krol.jpg
 
Stobzilla - Matthaus, Xavi, Vidic
Antohan - Beckenbauer, Zanetti, Stoichkov
Brwned - Baresi, Eusébio, Krol
Cutch - Edwards, Figo
NM - Figueroa, Maldini,
Thisistheone - Cruyff, Garrincha
KM - Breitner, Ronaldo
DanNistlerooy -Platini, Ferenc Puskás
 
No surprises there with Stoichkov, had him pencilled in from the beginning.
 
I think my boy Santamaria would be a better choice than Vidic. Puyol and Hansen would also like for like to his partner Pique (with even better quality).

But going for United captain has its own appeal, I guess.
 
Stoichkov is such an underrated player. He's an intelligent player, good passer, skillful, powerful, and pacey. But rarely viewed as one of all time great players. For instance, never heard of a new talent named the new Stoichkov.
 
Stobzilla said:
So now, either.

Cafu
Puyol
Vidic/Happel
Montero/Happel

Matthaus
Souness
Scholes

Zidane
Kubala/Savicevic

Van Nistlerooy.

Or.

Cafu
Vidic
Happel
Montero

Matthaus
Xavi
Scholes

Zidane
Kubala/Savicevic

Van Nistlerooy/Kubala
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I think you have to have Xavi in your team.

Yashin
Cafu Vidic Happel Montero
Matthaus
Xavi Scholes
Zidane
Kubala van Nistelrooy​
antohan said:
BTW, Brwned sent me a beautifully crafted PM on his next player with photos and all that but I deleted it by accident when emptying my inbox.

Mate, I'll happily copy paste it on this post if you resend it.

Brwned's pick is one of the original Dutch masters Ruud Krol

ruud_krol.jpg
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No worries, all I sent you was that pic and my finished team!
Brwned said:
Dutch dynamo Ruud Krol

krol.jpg


Mazurkiewicz
Brehme Trésor Baresi Krol
Keane Falcão
Matthews Di Stéfano Giggs
Eusébio​
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Think it's shaping up nicely. Krol and Baresi add another aspect of total football to my defence while Eusébio just rounds off the team perfectly. The ideal modern striker, years before his time.
 
Stobzilla said:
Der Kaiser is another choice, I know he played as a centre back but I am unfamiliar as to weather or not he played in front of the back 4.
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Stobzilla said:
Matthaus for me.
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antohan said:
Vote-wise probably would have as people would have a clearer picture of him paired with Rijkaard as the meanest pairing ever.

In practice, I rate Beckenbauer higher in almost every facet of the game. Matthaus would be a more "steely" option, but with Rijkaard already there I fancy this as a better partnership.

Rijkaard can focus more on the destruction/man-marking/all-action stuff, while Beckenbauer provides elegance and class in the build up, as well as first-rate/best-ever covering for the back four. Technically he is the superior player by some distance, but if needing the battling type I would have picked Matthaus.

Overall, both Stobzilla and I got the right player out of the two.
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I know it can't be helped, but it does boggle my mind a little that Beckenbauer is not more revered as a footballer, rather than a 'libero'. Beckenbauer is one of the top footballers in the entire draft and is better outright than maybe 10 players who tend to make up the top 10 of all time with him, arguably five, if we go by the old stone-set.

I'm always interested in reading opinions against his utilization as a footballer first, probably just to gauge how unknown a quantity he is, I guess. "Beckenbauer" seems to be a rather undefined mythos of its own that people seem to think means libero over exceptional footballer
.
Fergus' son said:
Cruyff and Mardona on the same team is great, Cruyff is arguably the best star you can get who you don't need to worry about pairing up with other stars too much IMO.
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Brwned said:
Interesting, I'd say the exact opposite! Versatile is an understatement andof course very team-orientated but at the same time I've seen few players try to run the game like he did. Di Stéfano, Beckenbauer, Maradona...very few others. Whereas Pelé and Messi are unbelivably talented but somehow found a way to exert their phenomenal influence over the game without really trying to take the limelight and run the show. Likewise for Best and Ronaldo x2. That's what I like about wingers actually - they're not necessarily selfless players but they're providers and stick to their relatively simple tasks, allowing the other attackers to really run things.

That's not a criticism of Thisistheone's team at all btw, he has one of the most selfless runners in the draft up front which is a huge bonus and Charlton's only flaw was that he went for the shot too often, other than that he was a perfect team player. I think he can make it work.
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Brwned said:
Completely understand what you're saying but I disagree to an extent. I think Cruyff's "philosophy" has pros and cons in the sense that of course it's all about universality and working towards a collective goal etc. etc. and that works in your favour, but at the same time it was very much his philosophy. There's a few quotes which I can't find at the moment which allude to Cruyff being the one to blame for the breakup of that Ajax side. Of course the main reason for it was the captaincy fiasco but there were a couple of Ajax players that since said Cruyff's personality caused a lot of rifts in the team because he, as Hulshoff put it, put himself in an "exceptional" position.

Pretty sure your boy Krol was one of the ones who said Cruyff was "difficult" to play with. I can't see Cruyff or Maradona happy to let the other dominate the ball and I can definitely see personality clashes there, but in a one-off game I suppose they could make exceptions. Certainly I'd agree that it's easier to fit him in the team than Di Stéfano but purely because of that added bit of acceleration allowing him to play in more positions - in terms of how they impose themselves on the pitch I see them as eerily similar. Though of course Don Alfredo was more of a winner.
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Gio said:
Anyone who has read 'Ajax Barcelona Cruyff' will recognise that he is an impossible, awkward man at times, but equally has some strong values and savvy insight into the game. Since he first became established at Ajax, I'm not sure if there's been a situation where he's had to play second fiddle to anyone and, throughout his career on and off the park, has made it clear that, if he's not the main man, he's not interested.
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Thisistheone said:
Cruyff never played with Maradona so we don't know how he'd react but Johan was very intelligent and a winner. He may have made an exception in the case of Diego. It's a team game at the end of the day though and in drafts like this harmony is only important in relation to the opposition. Messi has had all this recent success in the last few years as the main man but if Ronaldo is in that leading role, Messi won't be the same. Or if Messi plays his Barca role then Ronaldo can't play the role that made him so successful.

Cruyff and Maradona play in different positions. Diego was a bit deeper and more central. A potential personality clash is not an issue in a draft game when the opposition also has as many players who are alien to each other and clashing.
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I think antho made the post earlier about the greatest 10's (let's consider Cruyff a '10') were almost always the dominant personality in terms of dictating their side and its attack - Pele and Messi are actually unique in the sense they were/are comfortable either way, their eclectic natures should be a massive boon for those who have them in a draft such as this and from a personal POV something I would covet whilst attempting to build the most stacked all-star squad I could.

Most times, these 10's were very forceful personalities who abhorred those who sought to share their mantle as the boss of the side. As Brwned & Gio's posts above note. Cruyff was an 'awkward' man; an arsehole to his enemies and a big baby when he did not get his own way, he got away with it (or was perhaps that way) because he was so talented. Maradona is not too disimilar.... same goes for Di Stefano.

I said to a few people when asked about picks to be wary of personalities and egos when combining forces as most of these uber-dominant players were also undisputed rulers of their universe who did not take kindly to anyone stepping on their turf unless they were friends with them.

Whether Maradona and Cruyff as two absolute bosses of their sides would get on is up for debate, as I said to a few others, I think with these kind of players you're going to get one extreme of chaos or another of complete synergy and harmony... but on a surface-level, and considering their legacies and famed volatility, the initial thought is generally that there'll be fireworks and not the good kind.

There's also the issue of these players both expecting to see all of the ball all of the time... are they going to share? Is one going to sit idle or in a laboured position whilst the other goes on a magical run.. how many times are they going to tolerate that before exploding? and so on and so forth.


EDogen said:
With all the new players added, I see some fantastic teams shaping up. I can´t wait for it all to continue, will follow every little step along the way into the final. So far I have three favourite teams so it won´t be easy to vote in all games I can say!

And I´m happy that some of my players still have the chance for glory!
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The teams are starting to look very different to how they started out.
 
How do you rate Ronaldo and Messi as a potential partnership, Fortitude?
 
Agree about Beckenbauer too, the fact he revolutioned the role of sweeper seems to overshadow the reasons why he revolutionised the role. Incredible passer, effortless dribbler, flawless control and the capacity to control the play in a way I've not seen from any other player. Cruyff, Maradona and Di Stéfano all had to get forward and look for opening's up top alongside the centre backs whereas Beckenbauer was always the one available for the pass and he'd always choose the right ball. He was like a magnet. Whenever he went for a burst forward the ball would always find it's way to him.
 
KM said:
How do you rate Ronaldo and Messi as a potential partnership, Fortitude?
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I think it's potentially mouth-watering. The two fastest ball-carriers in the draft, I think (alongside prime Giggs), both renowned for their one and two touch football and finishing accuracy... that's a handful and a half.

Thinking of a backline to counter that is intriguing.
 
Fortitude said:
I know it can't be helped, but it does boggle my mind a little that Beckenbauer is not more revered as a footballer, rather than a 'libero'. Beckenbauer is one of the top footballers in the entire draft and is better outright than maybe 10 players who tend to make up the top 10 of all time with him, arguably five, if we go by the old stone-set.

I'm always interested in reading opinions against his utilization as a footballer first, probably just to gauge how unknown a quantity he is, I guess. "Beckenbauer" seems to be a rather undefined mythos of its own that people seem to think means libero over exceptional footballer
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Get ready for the warped reality of fantasy discussions, where Edgar Davids, let alone Matthaus, can shut out an entire top quality midfield, while Beckenbauer is this funny old chap that was a bit good but is always invariably out of position for half the people out there.
 
Brwned said:
Agree about Beckenbauer too, the fact he revolutioned the role of sweeper seems to overshadow the reasons why he revolutionised the role. Incredible passer, effortless dribbler, flawless control and the capacity to control the play in a way I've not seen from any other player. Cruyff, Maradona and Di Stéfano all had to get forward and look for opening's up top alongside the centre backs whereas Beckenbauer was always the one available for the pass and he'd always choose the right ball. He was like a magnet. Whenever he went for a burst forward the ball would always find it's way to him.
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Felix Magath once said, Beckenbauer was so lazy, they had to invent a position for him to make it work in the team. Obviously it was a joke, but there is some truth to it. Basically he got a complete defense around him, so he can operate with so much freedom wherever he wanted to. That setup allowed him to use all his strenth, but it also made up for his flaws which was necessary to build the legend, imo. Of course he's a magnificent footballer first and I get where Fortitude is coming from. But he had his flaws, especially in workrate and concentration. He was known for scoring a lot of own goals and was for sure the worst penalty taker out of all the alltime greats, for example. He wouldn't play as a center back in the modern game, imo, at least he wouldn't be the best defender of all time, if he had to play in a back 4 all his career. So it's no coincidence when he's seen as the greatest libero of all time first. Even in germany it's used that way most of the time, you rarely hear him called one of the greatest footballers of all time.
 
Fixtures

Would this be fine with everyone involved?

If not, send me a PM with possible days and I'll work them all out into something viable.

WEDNESDAY (SEND PM BY NOON, PM START)
Stobzilla v DanNistelrooy
KM v Thisistheone

THURSDAY (SEND PM BY NOON, PM START)
NM v Antohan
Cutch v Brwned
 
Beckenbauer lazy? That's news to me. Strode around like an emperor demanding things be done his way but when you see him carry out that man-marking job on Charlton or play on with the disolocated shoulder v Italy the last thing you'd think of was lazy! Interesting. The only flaw I ever noticed in his game was those stupid fecking outside of the boot free kicks. The sheer arrogance of thinking he can not only get the ball up and down with the outside of his boot from 18 yards out, but he can outsmart the keeper too - outrageous! Agree he needed those proper defenders around him to do the dirty work for him and he'd certainly not be playing in defence nowadays.

Wednesday's better for me if possible anto. Will hardly be in all day on Thursday.
 
I've no problems with that.
 
Btw these threads are great for knowledge. Some of the stories that have been shared in these threads have been awesome.
 
antohan said:
Get ready for the warped reality of fantasy discussions, where Edgar Davids, let alone Matthaus, can shut out an entire top quality midfield, while Beckenbauer is this funny old chap that was a bit good but is always invariably out of position for half the people out there.
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Not sure if you're referring to your match with Gio but your midfield was no better than his. Effenberg was easily the worst on the pitch.
 
Brwned said:
Beckenbauer lazy? That's news to me. Strode around like an emperor demanding things be done his way but when you see him carry out that man-marking job on Charlton or play on with the disolocated shoulder v Italy the last thing you'd think of was lazy! Interesting.
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Remember these are Germans we are talking about. Different par for the course. ;)
 
Theon said:
Not sure if you're referring to your match with Gio but your midfield was no better than his. Effenberg was easily the worst on the pitch.
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I'm not getting into this again. "If Rijkaard marks Platini then you are left with Effenberg and Iniesta, which is worse than a pairing of Davids and Xavi". Nutter.
 
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