We'll have to agree to disagree, no point getting started with the debate now.
All-Time Fantasy Draft
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We'll have to agree to disagree, no point getting started with the debate now.
I was thinking about Figueroa in midfild too actually.. or MAldini at Lb.. either way.. great defense IMO
Shit yeah forgot he's picked Figueroa as well. Cole drops out for Maldini then.
Just read Garrincha and Pele never lost when they played together for Brazil, and Garrincha himself only ever lost one match, his last, when he was struggling with a serious knee injury.
Just read Garrincha and Pele never lost when they played together for Brazil, and Garrincha himself only ever lost one match, his last, when he was struggling with a serious knee injury.
There's a really sad video of him in one of the floats during Carnival. Breaks your heart, looks so lost and fragile.
At the 74 World Cup you mean? He wasn't playing in midfield. Don't think much of him as a midfielder either. He will be starting for NM in defence anyway.Maradona > Messi & Garrincha or Cruyff > Ronaldo
I think that stat is true. Xavi and Iniesta come to mind as a partnership that might rival that achievement to an extent. Been a while since Spain lost a knockout game in a big International tournament.
I started a thread in the newbies that was about legendary partnerships in football history. A lot of interesting combinations were put up. Always nice to see two players bring the best out of each other.
I started a thread in the newbies that was about legendary partnerships in football history. A lot of interesting combinations were put up. Always nice to see two players bring the best out of each other.
In every way, even in votes! Messi will always lack Maradona's aura, nevermind all three combined, when all are hot favourites of most football fans!
I can see why younger fans might drool at Messi and Ronaldo paired, but my generation (30ish) experienced Maradona, and have not seen him surpassed yet. In fact all things considered, Ronaldo is probably the lesser of the 5 mentioned
Sorry boss, NM was forcing me to accept bribes and wasn't taking no for an answer, that corrupt manager.
Indeed, people have forgotten what O Fenomeno was. Adding to that KM being the Brendan Rodgers of Fantasy Drafts that he is wouldn't be arsed much about trying to remind everyone what the Brazilian can do. That hat trick at Old Trafford still haunts me at night.
There's a really sad video of him in one of the floats during Carnival. Breaks your heart, looks so lost and fragile.
Sad thing is when I first think about Garrincha I don't think about his goal v the Czechs or assists v Sweden, I picture him and his second wife in the living room with his 6 or 7 kids just darting about as kids do as Garrincha's just lounging on the couch. You can see even then that life's really beaten him down. Think he passed away not long after that footage.
He played extremely advanced in that game for sure, I thought he was playing in midfield but perhaps he was just playing as a very attacking libero. I had it in my head he had everything to freely interchange between libero and midfield in the same way Beckenbauer did.
As an aside, I agree with Der Kaiser being a much better option than Matthaus with Rijkaard's steely presence in there already.
The best player in Europe from the mid 50s paired up with the best player from the mid 60s...yes please. Welcome to your new home Eusébio. Pretty ecstatic he made it all the way through to be honest. Pairs up perfectly with Di Stefano in the sense that they both played in a team that had top class wide players that really stretched the pitch, he offers a physical presence up top and of course it adds another Ballon d'Or winner to the attack to along with Sir Stan and Don Alfredo. Was hoping to pair up Puskás and Di Stéfano all along because I was sure this man would go first - great nationality, even better player and even better fit because of his undeniably impressive physique.
Stobzilla - Matthaus
Antohan - Beckenbauer
Brwned - Baresi, Eusébio
Cutch - Edwards, Figo
NM - Figueroa, Maldini
Thisistheone - Cruyff, Garrincha
KM - Breitner, Ronaldo
DanNistlerooy -Platini, Ferenc Puskás
Treat him well!
Such a great 'alternative' striker IMO, the best in the draft? What I meant by alternative is that most of the well received strikers in the draft are are complete types, second strikers if you will. But Eusebio strikes me as a proper striker, put him alongside De Stefano and theoretically it's a match mad in heaven. I'd compare Weah, Batistuta to Eusebio in terms of how they play the role and he is better than both (Weah and Batistuta are two of my favourite players).
Fits in what we were talking about earlier too in terms of fitting in players, you have no worries of Eusebio getting in De Stefanos way, as you may have done with other strikers. Re Cruyff and De Stefano, the reason I probably think De Stefano would be harder to integrate with other huge personalities is because we've seen evidence of it with Didis arrival and to a lesser extent Kopa. Never knew that about Cruyff, but like you say, for a one off game I think they can make it work.
He was always the man carrying the ball out of defence and would take advanced positions but I would equate him with a Passarella (with less action on the opposition box) more than a Beckenbauer.
Anyone who has read 'Ajax Barcelona Cruyff' will recognise that he is an impossible, awkward man at times, but equally has some strong values and savvy insight into the game. Since he first became established at Ajax, I'm not sure if there's been a situation where he's had to play second fiddle to anyone and, throughout his career on and off the park, has made it clear that, if he's not the main man, he's not interested.
Ouch!
See, I wasn't really aware of that last part, I knew he hadn't played second fiddle to anyone but couldn't be sure how he would react if was put in that situation so cheers for that bit of insight.
Like I said, with de Stefano ( or other talismen, Rivera/mazzolla for eg) there were obvious examples to point to whereas I thought with Cruyff it was more up in the air. Not that Brwneds team has to worry about any clashes within, it's by far the most cohesive team in the draft at the moment ( though not neccessarily the best ).
OK chaps, sorry for the delay, but my assistant was adamant we made a pick to scupper NMs cunning plan.
feck that. I have no room for players I can't make any use of.
Fergus'son will be happy to see this man has found a home and been reunited with a manager he has a long standing relationship with both as a fullback and midfielder.
feck that. I have no room for players I can't make any use of.
Fergus'son will be happy to see this man has found a home and been reunited with a manager he has a long standing relationship with both as a fullback and midfielder.
Very nice pick, didn't see that coming at all.
Can you tell me after the drafting is over who Aldo was trying to get you to pick?
Can you tell me after the drafting is over who Aldo was trying to get you to pick?I love Zanetti and his big hunky thighs.
OK chaps, sorry for the delay, but my assistant was adamant we made a pick to scupper NMs cunning plan.
feck that. I have no room for players I can't make any use of.
Fergus'son will be happy to see this man has found a home and been reunited with a manager he has a long standing relationship with both as a fullback and midfielder.
You've been eyeing up him and Beckenbauer from the start!
Treat them well, hopefully you can give them the success they deserve!
Very nice pick, didn't see that coming at all.
After our game we can have a bottle of wine and laugh about all the conspiracy theories... and the three I thought you should have gone for.
In fairness his impact and legacy is such that he shouldn't be playing second fiddle to anyone. But this is galactico football and those are the challenges the managers have to deal with.
Very nice pick, didn't see that coming at all.
The one you will pick next.
He wasn't in my plans, but with no useful Argie in the foreseeable future (and there's a 50% chance the Messi vs. Maradona winner may get Brwned/Cutch in the semi) he became an obvious pick. I wouldn't half mind playing Andrade in the final if it meant Messi/Diego/Don Alfredo on board, but Zanetti is to me the best right back I could hope for, particularly with that other Inter legend and mentor of his on the other flank!
Cruyff never played with Maradona so we don't know how he'd react but Johan was very intelligent and a winner. He may have made an exception in the case of Diego. It's a team game at the end of the day though and in drafts like this harmony is only important in relation to the opposition. Messi has had all this recent success in the last few years as the main man but if Ronaldo is in that leading role, Messi won't be the same. Or if Messi plays his Barca role then Ronaldo can't play the role that made him so successful.
Cruyff and Maradona play in different positions. Diego was a bit deeper and more central. A potential personality clash is not an issue in a draft game when the opposition also has as many players who are alien to each other and clashing.
Cruyff and Maradona play in different positions. Diego was a bit deeper and more central. A potential personality clash is not an issue in a draft game when the opposition also has as many players who are alien to each other and clashing.
I always liked this article on him:
Some of it sounds like a piss-take but it does have very valid points on the split across Argentinian football, a split that somewhat explains why Maradona left him out in 2010. It's not some bullshit made up to poke fun at hairstyles, it is all very very real.
Yeah, I like the point made earlier about only a select few players, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Maradona, De Stefano who you should never play second fiddle to anyone and it's worth thinking about. Best, Ronaldo, Pele were mentioned as great players who you wouldn't have that trouble with, and Messi. Would you agree with those?
You have the best full back pairing now I believe, a good last pick and you would've nearly sorted your whole team with the exception of one position I would say, which you could sort out in the next draft round (if you get through).
Damn, that guy has good taste
Surreal Football Greatest XI: Michael Laudrup
The next time you hear Jamie Redknapp or Andy Townsend gush about some crashingly limited midfield donkey’s “triffic enjinn,” I want you to bear two things in mind: first, to borrow from Ruud Gullitt, my car has a good engine but that doesn’t mean it can play football; second, receiving praise off workaday English pundits doesn’t carry quite the same cachet as having Franz Beckenbauer say this: “Pelé was the best in the 60s, Cruyff in the 70s, Maradona in the 80s, and Laudrup in the 90s”. That’s Der Kaiser, folks. Or take Andrés Iniesta: “The greatest player in history? Laudrup.” Still not satisfied? Well, in 2006, Raúl said Laudrup was the best he ever played with, and he played five seasons with Zidane.
That, amigo, is Big Boy Shit. I mean, at the turn of the millennium, he was voted La Liga’s best player in the previous quarter-century: not Cruyff, not Maradona, not Ronaldo, not John Aldridge; Laudrup.
Obviously, then, it wasn’t much of a stretch for UEFA to crown him Denmark’s Golden Player, despite the fact that a disagreement with coach Richard Moller Nielsen led to him absenting himself from his nation’s footballing zenith: the remarkable off-the-beach Euro ’92 triumph as replacements for not-quite-yet-former Yugoslavia. Even so, this disappointment was more than offset by a stellar club career that, after leaving Brøndby as a 20-year-old, took in no less than seven top division titles with Juventus (one), Barcelona (four), Real Madrid (one), and Ajax (One).
Although he briefly shared the Juve midfield with UEFA’s curmudgeonly rosbifophobe president, Michel Platini, his peak years were undoubtedly spent with Barca’s Dream Team (1989-94), for whom he provided the cold-blooded ‘seny’ (reason, or nous) to Stoichkov’s fervid ‘rauxa’ (passion).
Even so, his occasional maverick tendencies and perceived laziness often exasperated his coach, Cruyff (an Oedipal drama, perhaps), and so, following his omission from the Champions League final in 1994 (a 4-0 drubbing by Fabio Capello’s Milan, the coach incredulous that the Dane was absent), he was offloaded to arch-rivals Real Madrid, where he was instrumental in a 5-0 evisceration of the ‘blaugrana’ en route to a fifth straight title. A mark of the affection in which he is held in Catalunya is that, while another former favourite to sign directly for Real, Luis Figo, had a pig’s head lobbed at him, Barca’s fans still idolise the Dane.
What did Laudrup have? The overriding sensation was that of an almost balletic grace; he simply floated over the surface. Technically, he was a consummate two-footed dribbler, his trademark move being ‘la croqueta’ (switching the ball quickly between feet to slalom between two onrushing defenders), since adopted by Iniesta. It all came from balance, of course – not only that of his own supremely elegant movement, but also in the awareness of when his opponents were off balance, having the classic dribbler’s innate sense of when to move the ball. He would often stop his markers dead in their tracks then, as they were momentarily flat-footed, much like a matador who allows the tiring, defeated bull to brush his thighs, he would slip the ball inches from the helpless defender’s feet before a flourish of acceleration sent him clear (¡Olé! indeed).
On top of that, he had breathtaking control and was a hyper-intelligent passer, with the uncanny defence-unlocking ability common to all the best playmakers. Of his repertoire of final balls, it was perhaps the look-the-other-way pass or signature ‘spoon pass’ – one that scarcely even entered the thoughts of lesser players – for which he will be best remembered, leading to the nickname ‘the tin opener’ (in my house, at least).
A true, unfettered Nordic genius, then – perhaps the only one ever to emerge from those cold, collectivist lands – the ‘culés’ who saw him in his Camp Nou-bestriding pomp certainly realized they were witnessing a rare era adorned by a rare talent, and to make the point hung a huge banner commanding us, in English, and thus politely, to “Enjoy Laudrup”.
By Scott Oliver
Surreal Football Greatest XI: Michael Laudrup
The next time you hear Jamie Redknapp or Andy Townsend gush about some crashingly limited midfield donkey’s “triffic enjinn,” I want you to bear two things in mind: first, to borrow from Ruud Gullitt, my car has a good engine but that doesn’t mean it can play football; second, receiving praise off workaday English pundits doesn’t carry quite the same cachet as having Franz Beckenbauer say this: “Pelé was the best in the 60s, Cruyff in the 70s, Maradona in the 80s, and Laudrup in the 90s”. That’s Der Kaiser, folks. Or take Andrés Iniesta: “The greatest player in history? Laudrup.” Still not satisfied? Well, in 2006, Raúl said Laudrup was the best he ever played with, and he played five seasons with Zidane.
That, amigo, is Big Boy Shit. I mean, at the turn of the millennium, he was voted La Liga’s best player in the previous quarter-century: not Cruyff, not Maradona, not Ronaldo, not John Aldridge; Laudrup.
Obviously, then, it wasn’t much of a stretch for UEFA to crown him Denmark’s Golden Player, despite the fact that a disagreement with coach Richard Moller Nielsen led to him absenting himself from his nation’s footballing zenith: the remarkable off-the-beach Euro ’92 triumph as replacements for not-quite-yet-former Yugoslavia. Even so, this disappointment was more than offset by a stellar club career that, after leaving Brøndby as a 20-year-old, took in no less than seven top division titles with Juventus (one), Barcelona (four), Real Madrid (one), and Ajax (One).
Although he briefly shared the Juve midfield with UEFA’s curmudgeonly rosbifophobe president, Michel Platini, his peak years were undoubtedly spent with Barca’s Dream Team (1989-94), for whom he provided the cold-blooded ‘seny’ (reason, or nous) to Stoichkov’s fervid ‘rauxa’ (passion).
Even so, his occasional maverick tendencies and perceived laziness often exasperated his coach, Cruyff (an Oedipal drama, perhaps), and so, following his omission from the Champions League final in 1994 (a 4-0 drubbing by Fabio Capello’s Milan, the coach incredulous that the Dane was absent), he was offloaded to arch-rivals Real Madrid, where he was instrumental in a 5-0 evisceration of the ‘blaugrana’ en route to a fifth straight title. A mark of the affection in which he is held in Catalunya is that, while another former favourite to sign directly for Real, Luis Figo, had a pig’s head lobbed at him, Barca’s fans still idolise the Dane.
What did Laudrup have? The overriding sensation was that of an almost balletic grace; he simply floated over the surface. Technically, he was a consummate two-footed dribbler, his trademark move being ‘la croqueta’ (switching the ball quickly between feet to slalom between two onrushing defenders), since adopted by Iniesta. It all came from balance, of course – not only that of his own supremely elegant movement, but also in the awareness of when his opponents were off balance, having the classic dribbler’s innate sense of when to move the ball. He would often stop his markers dead in their tracks then, as they were momentarily flat-footed, much like a matador who allows the tiring, defeated bull to brush his thighs, he would slip the ball inches from the helpless defender’s feet before a flourish of acceleration sent him clear (¡Olé! indeed).
On top of that, he had breathtaking control and was a hyper-intelligent passer, with the uncanny defence-unlocking ability common to all the best playmakers. Of his repertoire of final balls, it was perhaps the look-the-other-way pass or signature ‘spoon pass’ – one that scarcely even entered the thoughts of lesser players – for which he will be best remembered, leading to the nickname ‘the tin opener’ (in my house, at least).
A true, unfettered Nordic genius, then – perhaps the only one ever to emerge from those cold, collectivist lands – the ‘culés’ who saw him in his Camp Nou-bestriding pomp certainly realized they were witnessing a rare era adorned by a rare talent, and to make the point hung a huge banner commanding us, in English, and thus politely, to “Enjoy Laudrup”.
By Scott Oliver
Mate, you have Maradona.....Cruyff........Garrincha
You don't need to explain anything
Messi and Ronaldo are modern day heroes, but are they in the all time greats yet? Only time will tell.
BTW, I know those two pieces are long but they are not just pointless propaganda, they are an excellent read.
Ayee definitely agree with Crustanoid there, it's an outrageously good set of players. The average voter wont be thinking whether they would clash IMO.
edit - just remembered you have Charlton as well! How are you fitting them all in?
edit - just remembered you have Charlton as well! How are you fitting them all in?
I hope you are not mistaking Ronaldo in his team as Cristiano Ronaldo.
He isn't, I guess. Both Charlton and Coluna have been shown the door.
Undoubtedly, the Zanetti piece was particularly nuanced.
Yeah, one definitely. Expect he might play Coluna deeper.
I think the average voter won't , true, but there's 15 (ex) managers and a few in and around the draft that like to play it out, so it will still make a difference.
Yeah maybe a few would, but I know I would never consider it tbh.
Indeed, well researched and makes some excellent points. Adding to his stats on Italian influence, they started arriving in Uruguay in larger numbers around 1870 and by ~1910 accounted for 70-80% of the population. Former Spanish colony, but massive Italian heritage and influence.
Well, you are lucky there's a nationality rule in place because you would have major issues getting Passarella and Redondo to get on at all.