Alexis Sanchez | Udinese: No Deal Yet

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Bryan_Munich said:
What do you expect David Gill to do if a player prefers Barcelona?
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If we want to start competing with Real and Barca for dominance of Europe (SAF himself has said we have not won the European Cup as often as we should have) then one important area is the recruitment of the best players. Are we always going to lose out, just because 'players prefer Barca'? There has to be a point where we stop the trend or at least step up our interest when needed and fight to sign the best players. It's not like we haven't changed players minds in the past. Roy Keane had signed for Blackburn before SAF persuaded him to come to us. We should be able to transfer the same principles to transfers when Real and Barca are bidding.

forevrared said:
You're operating under the huge assumption that every player we're heavily linked to in the media are actually targets that Gill & Co are actively trying to sign as a necessity. I don't think it's the case with Sanchez, the same way it wasn't the case with Balotelli, Ozil, Van der Vaart and tons of other players.

Just because Sir Alex said he liked a player three years ago and they've had a good season doesn't mean we "limply accept defeat to another club" when he signs elsewhere.
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At least some of them must have been targets. You're right in saying it's an assumption that they have ALL been an interest we have pursued actively. But some of them will be players whom SAF has suggested to Gill, or the scouts have watched for a while. The point I'm making is that we very very rarely (if at all) sign the best players if Real, Barca or even the Milan teams, Juventus etc are in for them. Our interest will have been registered somewhere, but then we end up losing out.
 
Dion said:
Ah, I'm newish here, didn't realise you were a cnut. It's 4 players from the first team by the way.

In short, they've got a brilliant youth system because they spend £25m a year or something silly on La Masia, have a massive pool of players to pick from (not the 90 minute rule) and are allowed more than a pissing 2000 hours coaching between 10 and 18. How many other teams can say that?

Now, here's where the magic happens. If you've got a massive population, you've got more youth players, fewer spots need filling in the team, you can afford to spend £25m+ in every position you're weak in. Teams that don't have a whole country of players to pick from(and cant afford to spend the entire transfer budget of most top teams on running it) cant match Barcelona's youth production so cant concentrate their funds like Barcelona do.

Added to the massive amounts they spend on their youth system, they also spend a collosal amount on transfers, Dani Alves and Eric Abidal for instance. Of the genuinely world class players in their team (Messi, Villa, Iniesta, Xavi, Busquets(debatable), Alvez, Abidal, Pique and Puyol), half have been bought. Strip away the the ones that have been bought (about £70m worth of players) and that team is considerably weaker. It's silly to say transfer muscle hasn't had a big influence on Barcelona's success, even if you discount the money they spend on La Masia.
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You'll do well here if you call everyone cnuts ;)

I'm not arguing the population, I never did. At all. We're going on transfers here.

Half of their first XI haven't been bought. Check their CL final team. I count 3.

The original argument was that Barca's transfers have helped them big time, which they haven't at all. I'm not on about their population bla bla, it's very valid to say most of their team ARE NOT TRANSFERS. Arguing that is beyond me.
 
Crustanoid said:
If we want to start competing with Real and Barca for dominance of Europe (SAF himself has said we have not won the European Cup as often as we should have) then one important area is the recruitment of the best players. Are we always going to lose out, just because 'players prefer Barca'? There has to be a point where we stop the trend or at least step up our interest when needed and fight to sign the best players. It's not like we haven't changed players minds in the past. Roy Keane had signed for Blackburn before SAF persuaded him to come to us. We should be able to transfer the same principles to transfers when Real and Barca are bidding.
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You don't know that we didn't.
 
cina said:
Half of their first XI haven't been bought. Check their CL final team. I count 3.
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I didn't say that, I said of the genuinely world class players they have half have been bought (or slightly less than half if you think Busquets is world class).
(If you don't include Pique as a "buy" then their Champions League final starting 11 had 4 "buys" in them, Villa, Alves, Abidal and Mascherano)

cina said:
The original argument was that Barca's transfers have helped them big time, which they haven't at all. I'm not on about their population bla bla, it's very valid to say most of their team ARE NOT TRANSFERS. Arguing that is beyond me.
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Of course they have, take Villa, Dani Alves, Abidal etc. out of that team and they're much weaker, those 3 alone cost £60m. Just because most of their team aren't transfers doesn't mean it hasn't helped them big time, one of the most important steps in the progression from the 2007-8 Barcelona to the machine they are now is Dani Alves and the width and threat he provides down the right. The effect would be even greater if the person in charge wasn't useless, definitely a case of if you throw enough **** some sticks.

Anyway, I'm sure theres a thread for this kind of thing, bets to get back to crying about losing out on Sanchez.
 
Crustanoid said:
Perhaps, but the evidence suggests our negotiating and all-round handling of these situations is not effective enough to be successful
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Seems pretty effective to me. We had 1 player signed and 2 virtually in the bag within a week of the transfer window opening. Up to now which other team has been as effective and successful as that?

I know we might not have bought the players some folk want, but we bought the players Fergie wants and that's exactly what we should be doing.
 
Crustanoid said:
Perhaps, but the evidence suggests our negotiating and all-round handling of these situations is not effective enough to be successful
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I don't think you can blame the way United's management team handle the situation when we don't sign players like Sanchez. When we are after top South American or Southern European players, United are always going to be at a disadvantage if Barcelona or Real Madrid are interested in the same player. The culture and the weather in Spain is closer to want they are used to than rainy Manchester and when you add that the player was probably a Barcelona or Real supporter as a kid, it is always going to be a hard sell.
 
KingMinger22 said:
Last summer and the summer before were worst.



I am gutted we didn't get this kid.
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dude this summer aint over. keep faith. we may still sign someone great. remember how out of nowhere Jones was signed. thats how this club do business. if they arent talking about possible buys , doesnt mean they aint working on them
 
wr8_utd said:
2007 was so good. Nani and Anderson in one night :mad:
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it can happen mate. where was no speculations at all about either of those two kids before United announced they are signed. You never know. Tomorrow you may wake up and read that United signed some very promising young kid. Believe.
 
Hadn't we been linked with Nani heavily for well over a year?
 
It's not just the weather, the culture, the language, the prestige, the lower tax bracket for foreigners and the playing style.

Barca have the highest wage bill in football, so not only can they attract the best in business, they can afford to keep them.
 
Crustanoid said:
At least some of them must have been targets. You're right in saying it's an assumption that they have ALL been an interest we have pursued actively. But some of them will be players whom SAF has suggested to Gill, or the scouts have watched for a while. The point I'm making is that we very very rarely (if at all) sign the best players if Real, Barca or even the Milan teams, Juventus etc are in for them. Our interest will have been registered somewhere, but then we end up losing out.
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It's often about money, and I'd rather lose out on those players than become another Chelsea or City, even if we were able to spend like them.

But even if you disregard the monetary aspect, it has always been extremely difficult to get a Latin American player to come to United over Real or Barca. And pretty difficult to get them to come to United over an Italian team. It's not only language and culture, but when these players were young and impressionable, the Italian and Spanish leagues were the best in Europe, coupled with the fact that those were pretty much the only European leagues shown on TV in Latin America.

Maybe that's changing with England becoming one of the best, if not the best leagues, and with greater access to more football from around the world. But it's going to take time before we can expect Latin American kids to grow up dreaming to play for United. I know people say that Sanchez said he was a United fan last year, but no way was he running around 10 years ago pretending that he was Ryan Giggs or David Beckham.
 
Dion said:
Hadn't we been linked with Nani heavily for well over a year?
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Yes. There were a few murmerings about Anderson too, Times reported that we'd be scouting him a lot, though he was still a surprise.

Plus, we've already signed a very highly rated defender for a big fee, reportedly a deal done with an England international for a bigish fee, and another one with a very highly rated young keeper. Not exactly been a dead summer just because we missed out on a player who didn't appear entirely necessary.
 
Dion said:
I didn't say that, I said of the genuinely world class players they have half have been bought (or slightly less than half if you think Busquets is world class).
(If you don't include Pique as a "buy" then their Champions League final starting 11 had 4 "buys" in them, Villa, Alves, Abidal and Mascherano)


Of course they have, take Villa, Dani Alves, Abidal etc. out of that team and they're much weaker, those 3 alone cost £60m. Just because most of their team aren't transfers doesn't mean it hasn't helped them big time, one of the most important steps in the progression from the 2007-8 Barcelona to the machine they are now is Dani Alves and the width and threat he provides down the right. The effect would be even greater if the person in charge wasn't useless, definitely a case of if you throw enough **** some sticks.

Anyway, I'm sure theres a thread for this kind of thing, bets to get back to crying about losing out on Sanchez.
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Actually truthfully I'd forgotten Mascherano played, I just assumed in my head it was Puyol as always.

Those 3 were big transfers, £60m right? Compare that to how much our top XI cost then. And Chelsea, and Real, and City, and Bayern, and Inter...

Barca are just so less reliant on transfers than any other mega European club (ok City aren't a mega club, they're shit but still spend huge), bar Arsenal who don't hold a candle to them.

The point is that although their transfers have helped them (which I didn't deny by the way, just that they're way less reliant than people seem to think), the absolute core of their team, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi & Pique (I guess you could maybe count Valdes and Pedro but probably not) weren't transfers, so they're most certainly not as reliant on transfers as other clubs are.

but yes, off topic. let's just wait for Sanchez to sign and the thread to be closed.
 
This is about to end :

rorysmith_tel Word in Santiago is that Sanchez has left the Chile hotel and is on his way to Barcelona. Via Paris. Caffe Ritazza.
 
wr8_utd said:
This is about to end :

rorysmith_tel Word in Santiago is that Sanchez has left the Chile hotel and is on his way to Barcelona. Via Paris. Caffe Ritazza.
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Thanks goodness.... Never seen such a boring dragged out conclusion for an actual interesting target!!
 
19:41 - Sanchez-Upgrade story: second AsAlexis Sanchez has canceled his trip to Barcelona by the withdrawal of Chile, where he is preparing for the Copa America. A new signal, after the rejection of Jeffren Udinese and rising Well the price ("Sanchez is worth 50 million), that the negotiations were abruptly terminated after accelerated in recent days.
 
ehsanul said:
19:41 - Sanchez-Upgrade story: second AsAlexis Sanchez has canceled his trip to Barcelona by the withdrawal of Chile, where he is preparing for the Copa America. A new signal, after the rejection of Jeffren Udinese and rising Well the price ("Sanchez is worth 50 million), that the negotiations were abruptly terminated after accelerated in recent days.
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wtf?
 
wr8_utd said:
2007 was so good. Nani and Anderson in one night :mad:
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That summer was a properly explosive one from us activity wise, I mean it 'literally' exploded of our feet it was snapped up so quick. :lol: Hargreaves as a well known name, Tevez on loan and two kids with good potential, all of them costing.

Truth is though, that was a rarity, although it must be said it was in Glazers time. :eek: What was it like £50m+ all in.

KingMinger22 said:
I am gutted we didn't get this kid.
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IMO we never were going to get him. See it too many times, more often than not when Barca, Real et al are involved then we don't get the player. Ronaldinho, Kluivert, Benzema, Ozil. Don't get me wrong it does work out well for us sometimes with Ronaldo, Van Nistelrooy or Hernandez as a later on result but we don't compete with them for the star names or hype up ones of the time.

Premiership has always been our best bet for picking up the top players of the league, unless its say Liverpool obviously.
 
RedThaiDevils#7 said:
Saving money for a certain Cesc I presume.
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Barca don't need Cesc this season.

If they don't sign Cesc this season they will sign him next season or later that is certain.

However, If they lose Sanchez there is no chance of them getting him in the near future.

So I think they'll do all and spend all to get Sanchez this season.

Lets all forget Sanchez.
 
Cold_Boy said:
Barca don't need Cesc this season.

If they don't sign Cesc this season they will sign him next season or later that is certain.

However, If they lose Sanchez there is no chance of them getting him in the near future.

So I think they'll do all and spend all to get Sanchez this season.

Lets all forget Sanchez.
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I would agree with this. Fabregas will be warming their bench next season if they sign him.
 
I swear someone involved in these negotiations is monitoring this thread. "Hey guys, those hueones* over at redcafe have given up all hope. Let's delay this some more and get them all excited again."










*Oh, and FWIW, a "hueon" is a Chilean slang swear term, kind a slightly more vulgar way of calling someone a muppet! ;)
 
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