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Alexis Sanchez | Staying at Arsenal after City deal falls apart
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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He can have a limo to the emirates. Getting Sanchez would be more than worthy of sacrificing the services of the wholly inconsistent and unreliable Martial.
Sanchez would give us the firepower we need to push for the title.
If City get Sanchez, they will win the league with ease. We have to stop them getting him.
Where was sanchez at 21 , unlike martial? If we let go of martial he will be the next lukaku case where he shines in another team.
Also getting Sanchez won't mean getting rid of martial in the process when we are already short in that department. We just need to show that money to Sanchez and arsenal, which should be in our range.
City getting him would be a disaster but that won't fix their leaky defense, and us and Chelsea still have a better chance than them.
Sorry but as much as I want Sanchez here, no way will I want to send Martial in exchange. Sanchez is 28, and if he comes we might be looking to buy Martial back for some crazy price as Sanchez hits 32.
Straight up cash deal -show them the Griezmann money, and tell Sanchez our "project" (as well as our no.7 shirt and the marketing and exposure it brings).
Straight up cash deal -show them the Griezmann money, and tell Sanchez our "project" (as well as our no.7 shirt and the marketing and exposure it brings).
Rashford would see less time as well assuming he and Martial are first choice on the left. You don't buy a player like Sanchez and rotate. Alexis would start every match possible, similar to Lukaku. It would be interesting if Rashford plays behind Lukaku when United setup 4231
He rejected us twice. One of those times was to sign for Arsenal. P.S. we are far from the biggest club in the world. We are good commercially due to number of supporters but on the footballing side of being a football club, we suck.
It's a real conundrum though. Yes Rashford and Martial will surely see less minutes, but we need more quality and goals from somewhere. Besides, adding anothet attacking player will take the pressure off their young shoulders when one of the main atrackera is out. We are already pursuing Perisic, so if Sanchez is available for maybe 15m more, why not?
No way in hell is Alexis only going to cost United 15 million more than Perisic...United aren't that daft. Wherever Alexis ends up, if he does force a transfer, it will not be because United couldn't afford him. It'll be for other reasons such as Alexis didn't want to play in Manchester for United or Jose went another direction.
Martial, Rashford, Pogba, Mkhitaryan and Mata all need to up their quality in general. They all under performed in the goal scoring department last year and it cost United in the league.
We were interested in signing Sánchez when he was 19. At that time he wasn't playing in Europe so most of us didn't have much sight of him, but those who did on here were saying he was Messi-like:
By around the World Cup time, when he was 22, he'd become very much mainstream and lots of people wanted to sign him as a Ronaldo replacement.
That's not to downplay Martial's talent - I think he's great - but it's not true to say Sánchez was anything less than a precocious talent.
Now that's a post!If I was Woodward, I'd offer Martial + 10m gbp.
It's probably the hardest thing to grasp for this forum, that Mourinho is not interested in this guy, but it really shouldn't be, since there's a mountain of evidence to support this conclusion and none for the fanciful idea.
Similar to cristiano. In Italy he was seen as a gimmick-y player, kind of a denilson, before he exploded in 2010/11 and tore the league to shreds(was maybe even better than Zlatan). Luciano Moggi famously called him "a circus performer, not a footballer"
6 years ago Sanchez was 22 and moved from Udinese to Barcelona. I still remember because I wanted United to sign him thinking he would be such a beast of a player for us. He was scoring goals for fun at that time and his playing style remembered me a bit of Messi.
Martial is nowhere close to brining out the kind of excitment Sanchez was at age 22.
Alexis went from "entertaining but useless" to "world beater" in the space of a summer. Alexis wasn't rated as high as martial, but most importantly had not performed at anything close to martial's level, before he was 21 and 1/2
I didn't think we were in for him when he left Barca? Most fans in the world, richest club but a mess on the pitch - depends what you think makes the biggest club in the world.
On form martial is more dangerous than sanchez because of being fleet footed and very fast in his skills with his feet, But he has to work hard to become Deadly . Sanchez is more prolific as a goal scorer but martial has time to develop and learn.
interesting to see liverpool fans opinions on this. On that note, you can all stop hoping.
He's got a new girlfriend, so manchester is out of the list of possible destinations now
He's got a new girlfriend, so manchester is out of the list of possible destinations now
interesting to see liverpool fans opinions on this. On that note, you can all stop hoping.
He's got a new girlfriend, so manchester is out of the list of possible destinations now
How did david beckham was stuck here for years.
I don't know when the last time was I have seen Martial anywhere near what could be described as in form.
I don't disregard his quality but he has serious issues when it comes to consistency and having the right attitude and work ethic and I bet it is the nr1 reason why he isn't getting along with Mourinho. I feel like Martial under Mourinho is never going to work out the way some people hope it will, he just doesn't have it. I think Arsenal and Wenger would actually be a much better fit for Martial atm than United under Mourinho. If we could make a deal by which we get Sanchez and it involves offloading Martial I would certainly give it alot of consideration.
I was impressed with Martial under LVG but under Mourinho he has turned out to be a completley different player who can't excite me anymore at all. Martial's biggest achievement was to have LVG panick buy him at the end of a disasterous summer where he flogged off all our strikers and was begining to understand Rooney wasn't all that world class anymore. He had a good first season under LVG especially when played from the left wing and he was one of the only good performing players in that team. But his second season has been a disaster and on the international level he hasn't shown anything either. So I would not exagerate the level of achievement he has had already as a player. Still alot of big question marks around Martial especially playing under Mourinho.
The reality is that if Alexis went to MUFC it would pretty much destroy Martial's career at the club anyway.
Mourinho wants one goal scoring wide forward in the team, which would be Alexis, and Alexis is notorious for wanting to play every match. The other wing spot would go to a player that could run a lot, be defensively responsible, and do more in the buildup, the Pandev/DiMaria/Willian role in other Mourinho sides. Rashford would probably play on the rare occasions Alexis didn't, since Mourinho clearly rates him over Martial. Martial would sit on the bench, sulk, and then get shipped off somewhere in 2018 or 2019.
Mourinho wants one goal scoring wide forward in the team, which would be Alexis, and Alexis is notorious for wanting to play every match. The other wing spot would go to a player that could run a lot, be defensively responsible, and do more in the buildup, the Pandev/DiMaria/Willian role in other Mourinho sides. Rashford would probably play on the rare occasions Alexis didn't, since Mourinho clearly rates him over Martial. Martial would sit on the bench, sulk, and then get shipped off somewhere in 2018 or 2019.
It's understandable that many of us would fear that the signing of Alexis, would probably mean the end for Martial as a Man Utd player. I truly believe Martial has the potential to be a world-beater, but I'm starting to feel that he will never reach such heights with us.
Last season was a write-off in comparison to his debut the year before. Although, part of that could be down to not getting enough game time under Mourinho. His frustration at losing the #9 unexpectedly is understandable, but he can't sulk on it for much longer.
Alexis Sánchez would win us the title in my book. We should go all in...
Last season was a write-off in comparison to his debut the year before. Although, part of that could be down to not getting enough game time under Mourinho. His frustration at losing the #9 unexpectedly is understandable, but he can't sulk on it for much longer.
Alexis Sánchez would win us the title in my book. We should go all in...
This is why I can't see him at City. He would be perfect for us and I would happily ship Martial out to accommodate him.
It's difficult to comprehend how "potential damage to Martial development" could be considered a more serious factor than another lackluster season.
In case we aim to compete for trophies (PL, CL), we really need to start scoring goals. The competitor we are against score 1.5x more goals than we do, and this is first and foremost due to the fact that our attacking contingent is not good enough as it is now. Attacking players we currently have (except for Lukaku) are simply worse - and if we don't buy a world class wide forward now we gonna struggle big time.
That said, what the team needs now is a really excellent, world class wide attacker capable of scoring 20 goals and a double-digit assist figure - and there are not that many: Ronaldo and Messi aside, there are the likes of Neymar, Bale, A. Sanchez, Hazard and probably O. Dembele.
It is unlikely Chelsea sells us Hazard, whereas it is even less likely for us to activate 222m Neymar release clause (too much even for United) - hence our options for a wide world class attacker are limited to only three players, with Bale being seriously injury prone and Dembele, albeit fantastically talented, lacking experience. So, A. Sanchez is in fact one of the most logical solutions to our problems.
Now, what teams could potentially buy Sanchez from a financial standpoint (China aside)? Only 7 teams in the world - Bayern, Real, Barca, PSG, Chelsea, City and United.
Real and Barca do not need him as they have better players, Bayern may struggle with respect to his extravagant wage demands and actually doesn't need him that much now after arrival of James (unless Muller is to be disposed of), and PSG is definitely not an option for Sanchez from a footballing perspective (clearly his ambitions are above that).
So, only 3 English teams left, with a genius of Guardiola being rumored as a likely buyer - but for City it will be the smallest marginal improvement in quality for a huge price, and for player himself more risk of getting in a situation Aguero recently was (drop of form -> bench -> young talent rocks instead). City already have load of attackers, and good ones at that.
Chelsea - yes maybe, but they have a very similar player in Hazard already and they need a striker more than anything else, and strikers now come at a price.
So... only United left - for us it is a perfect options - head and shoulders above what we have now, could create great partnership with lukaku and Pogba, while we now have nearly unlimited ability to offer wages and still haven't spent "Griezmann money". It is a no brainer (and no, Arsenal will not reject a Lukaku level transfer fee, especially if Sanchez himself is interested to play in CL and challenge for the title finally)
In case we aim to compete for trophies (PL, CL), we really need to start scoring goals. The competitor we are against score 1.5x more goals than we do, and this is first and foremost due to the fact that our attacking contingent is not good enough as it is now. Attacking players we currently have (except for Lukaku) are simply worse - and if we don't buy a world class wide forward now we gonna struggle big time.
That said, what the team needs now is a really excellent, world class wide attacker capable of scoring 20 goals and a double-digit assist figure - and there are not that many: Ronaldo and Messi aside, there are the likes of Neymar, Bale, A. Sanchez, Hazard and probably O. Dembele.
It is unlikely Chelsea sells us Hazard, whereas it is even less likely for us to activate 222m Neymar release clause (too much even for United) - hence our options for a wide world class attacker are limited to only three players, with Bale being seriously injury prone and Dembele, albeit fantastically talented, lacking experience. So, A. Sanchez is in fact one of the most logical solutions to our problems.
Now, what teams could potentially buy Sanchez from a financial standpoint (China aside)? Only 7 teams in the world - Bayern, Real, Barca, PSG, Chelsea, City and United.
Real and Barca do not need him as they have better players, Bayern may struggle with respect to his extravagant wage demands and actually doesn't need him that much now after arrival of James (unless Muller is to be disposed of), and PSG is definitely not an option for Sanchez from a footballing perspective (clearly his ambitions are above that).
So, only 3 English teams left, with a genius of Guardiola being rumored as a likely buyer - but for City it will be the smallest marginal improvement in quality for a huge price, and for player himself more risk of getting in a situation Aguero recently was (drop of form -> bench -> young talent rocks instead). City already have load of attackers, and good ones at that.
Chelsea - yes maybe, but they have a very similar player in Hazard already and they need a striker more than anything else, and strikers now come at a price.
So... only United left - for us it is a perfect options - head and shoulders above what we have now, could create great partnership with lukaku and Pogba, while we now have nearly unlimited ability to offer wages and still haven't spent "Griezmann money". It is a no brainer (and no, Arsenal will not reject a Lukaku level transfer fee, especially if Sanchez himself is interested to play in CL and challenge for the title finally)
Martial had a breakout season for Monaco in 14/15 and followed it up by looking like one of the best young prospects in the world in his first season at united. Alexis Sanchez went from "this guy belongs on the street doing tricks for the crowd" to "holy shite, this guy might be the best player in the league!" in a league that included God, Samuel Eto'o in the best season of his career, Francesco Totti, Wesley Sneijder, Thiago Silva back when he was a one-man defence, Robinho before the saudade kicked in, Pato when he was "Martial", Nesta, Seedorf, Cassano, De Rossi, Pastore...in the space of a summer. Before the 2010/11 season he never looked like he had that kind of potential in Europe
Point being, getting rid of Martial right now, for a 28 year old with one year left of his contract, for a club with the financial muscle of MUFC, makes no sense whatsoever. If United were interested in Alexis right now, they would have made him a priority signing
Now, of course if you could sign, by all means you should do it. But nobody in his right mind would sign Alexis at the cost of Martial
Luckily there is no chance of him joining us. Delighted with that.
Thanks for providing a different perspective from somebody who has actually watched Sanchez at Udinese when he was around Martial's age.
I think there's two points here. The first is that you're making a gross over-generalisation. Cristiano was not seen as that kind of player. He was seen as that kind of player by some people. That's quite a big difference. To illustrate that in a simple way, here's two people on a Manchester United forum with wildly different opinions just months before he exploded, as you put it.
The simple point is that I'd find it difficult to summarise the broad opinion on Ronaldo on this forum alone, never mind among United fans, never mind among PL fans.
The same is true of the opinion in Italy on Sánchez. Here's a view on Sánchez from 2008 in which they actually use the phrase "explosión", funnily enough, alongside calling him "El Niño Maravilla". Here's another one from 2009 where he's talked about as one of the pillars of the Chile team. They are very different opinions to the one you're proposing, so I don't think you can claim to represent the consensus. There's a reason he was linked to us and Roma - he made an impact at the World Cup, no question.
So yes, he might have been seen as a gimmicky player by some people but there were others - myself included - who saw him as much more. You need only look to the threads on here to verify that there was in fact plenty of people with opinions that differed to your own. It doesn't really matter who's was right, it's just worth pointing out that your opinion is no authority on the matter.
The other point is that is an entirely seperate discussion. Whether he was seen in the same way as Messi, Ronaldo, Martial or whoever else was not the discussion I'd picked up at all. The discussion I'd picked up was where someone implied that Sánchez was basically a nobody. Not whether he was as good as Martial, but whether he was in any way noteworthy. That's not a matter of debate - he was. Your opinion on just how much potential he had will vary based on a whole number of things - perhaps most significantly on how quickly you dismiss South American football - but the only important point here is that when he was Martial's age, there were a significant number of people across the world that saw him as a player with potential.
We are in a position where we need to be challenging for the title. Lukaku only replaces Ibra, with no guarantees of being more prolific, or suiting team play.
So we need a massive improvement in our attack.
Can we wait for Martial and Rashford to produce?
Not really.
Keeping them and getting Sanchez is ideal, but if losing potential in Martial secures him and wins us 2 titles in the next 3 years, it would be worth it.
Why do we want Martial to develop, if not to deliver us success? But he has shown precious little to suggest he has the drive to be mentioned in Sanchez's league.
We are not in this business for the benefit of any one player.
So we need a massive improvement in our attack.
Can we wait for Martial and Rashford to produce?
Not really.
Keeping them and getting Sanchez is ideal, but if losing potential in Martial secures him and wins us 2 titles in the next 3 years, it would be worth it.
Why do we want Martial to develop, if not to deliver us success? But he has shown precious little to suggest he has the drive to be mentioned in Sanchez's league.
We are not in this business for the benefit of any one player.
If you were Woodward, you'd have jet lag.
If Martial ever reaches his potential on the wing, he'll probably be about as good as Sanchez was last season, maybe better at the top end. But between a choice of waiting years with a stifled attack on a hope and a prayer, or being better and potentially winning things right now, why would you choose to wait?
If Martial has anything about him he'll do a Rashford and play second string til he's a better player, which would be perfect considering his and Sanchez's age. I don't think Martial would do that though.
If Martial has anything about him he'll do a Rashford and play second string til he's a better player, which would be perfect considering his and Sanchez's age. I don't think Martial would do that though.
Yea ofcourse I would prefer signing Sanchez without letting go off Martial.
But we are not the only club interested in Sanchez and we are not the only club that can pay the transfer fee. If they could get Martial then Arsenal would likely sell to us and not to City or Chelsea.
Nnnope. You're quoting Clarin(argentina), and Latercera(Chile iirc). I specifically referred to the opinion of the player in Italy, where he played from 2008 until 2011. Sure there were flashes of potential, but his first two seasons were major disappointment
Your point being that Alexis was a highly rated prospect is true, but he wasn't as highly rated in Europe as Martial, and most importantly, he hadn't played at anywhere near Martial's level before 2010
All I'm saying is that you can't say with any authority what the consensus on Sánchez was in Italy, in much the same way I can't say what the consensus was on Ronaldo pre-2006. There's this tendency to take one foreign fan's opinion as an authority on the matter but if you think about that at all, it becomes very silly. If I went on a Real Madrid forum and told them my view on Rooney, they would be getting a very different opinion to one of the many vocal protesters on here. We're not very good at representing anyone's opinion but our own.
There were pleny of people who will have watched Sánchez in Italy on a regular basis and came to the conclusion that he had world class talent. There are plenty more who watched him South America and came to that conclusion by the age of 17, before Martial had even made his full debut in professional football. Your opinion is your opinion but it does not represent this wide cross-section of society that you seem to be suggesting.
One thing to bear in mind that part of the reason for his explosive season at Udinese was that he was moved to his best position - something Udinese's owner said they would do immediately after the World Cup, recognising the fact that they could get more out of him if they gave him more responsibility. Than it itself highlights the fact that they saw that talent was ready to explode and they had to do more as a team to maximise it.
Sure i can, i lived in Italy, i know what the public perception on the player was.
Sure. Plenty of people thought he could be a great player if he learned that football's a team sport and that doing simple stuff that helps the team >>> doing fancy tricks (this is why i compared him to Cristiano earlier btw)
Majority of people thought he never would, though(and quite a few other thought dribbling and fancy tricks were all he was good for)
His explosion in 2010/11 was a big surprise in Italy. Even most people who believed in his potential didn't expect him to be that good
But i'm not comparing talent. Your post was in answer to someone saying Alexis had done less at Martial's age, claiming Alexis was also a very highly rated prospect. You're right, but also wrong. Alexis was a highly rated prospect, but comparing the players at the same ages, Martial is clearly more accomplished(either began blooming earlier, or just more talented. Time will tell), and has played at a much higher level
Martial 18-21 is a better player than Alexis 18-21
Martial has the potential to be Sanchez, but its not exactly likely.
Can we make a bid fast whlie city think they have a chance with Mbappe
So everybody in Italy had exactly the same opinion about Sanchez when he was young? That's got to be really, really rare.
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