No I think he worked it out for himself, it's pretty bloody obvious.
Alex Song
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
So your defensive failings last season were down to Wenger's instructions?
I don't think you're giving your manager enough credit. Only it seemed to me your back four were crying out for a bit more help from midfield than they got. It was pretty bloody obvious.
Yeah, I'm not sure about that. Quite a few of the Arsenal fans won't hear a bad word said against Wenger but if they aren't winning anything and have defensive issues, surely it's either Wenger's fault or the players'? If he's sending them flying forward and they keep getting caught then that's his fault, surely?
Our defensive issues were more to do with injuries leaving us without any fullbacks. Wenger's always made the trade-off in favour of attacking threat v defensive cover in CM.
Not when you he had Petit and Vieira in the engine room. Now that really was a tough side to break down, whatever instructions he was giving them.
Same applies to Vieira and Gilberto Silva, come to think of it.
That's going back to 98 when we also had Parlour playing right midfield in a 442. Vieira + Gilberto was very attacking playing high up the pitch, and relying on Gilberto's mobility for cover (see Flamini as well).
So is Song's weakness is his lack of mobility?
Or is the problem these alleged briefings from Wenger that won't allow Song (a converted centre-half) get back to help out a 30 year old Mikael Arteta, who's always needed at least one more defensive midfield partner throughout his career to date?
Relative to Gilberto and Flamini yes, but he brings other things to the party and we've turned from a counterattacking team to possession-based team in the last 6 years. Arteta's role in the latter part of last season has changed from what he did at Everton; when Jack's back Song can resume his role as the more defensive of the two.
Do you think that giving Arteta a role he'd never played before, combined with Wenger's (alleged) briefing to Song that he need not help him defensively, was a good idea by your manager?
It was necessary because Arteta's passing isn't penetrative enough in the final third. He did very well in the deeper role and it panned out pretty well since we ended up 3rd after a disastrous start.
Is there a substantial evidence that Arsenal have conceded goals owing to Song's advancing role?
Or are you just spouting cliched statement, since Song is spotted beyond his half?
Or are you just spouting cliched statement, since Song is spotted beyond his half?
The season before last, Song rotated with Wilshere, creating an understanding to allow each other to move forward in stages; with Fabregas being the most advanced of them three.
Last season, owing to Song's better understanding of Robin & Theo's movement; lot more movement came from Song, with Arteta covering. this time round it was Ramsey or Rosicky being the most advanced.
I am puzzled that even Arsenal fans tend to forget this, and consider Song as pure DM, which he has not been since couple of seasons.
That "disasterous start" was part of the season as a whole. Believe me, I'd like to scratch our last few games from the record books but that's not the way football works.
I wouldn't say finishing third (19 points shy of the leaders) is any kind of endorsement of your approach last season. Not for a club with Arsenal's ambitions.
What the feck are you on about now? What kind of "substantial evidence" are you looking for here? Is this the same "substantial evidence" that gave you the inside track on Wenger's pre-match briefings to Song?
The point is look at the balance of the team with Song/Arteta, particularly with Song in a more advanced role. We more or less matched City and Utd with Song doing more more attacking and clocking up 11 assists way more than any other CM in the league, even Yaya who played as an AM for half the season.
:Wtfisthisshit.gif:That's just it, though. The balance was all wrong. Song did a very good job in the final third but your whole season was characterised by an understrength defence getting repeatedly overrun without enough support from midfield.
I've no idea how much of this was down to Song being told to stay very high up the pitch and how much was down to his own failure to get back when needed. Bearing in mind it's been a theme for him going back to seasons before the signing of Arteta (most notably when United made a habit of tearing you apart on the counter) I'm inclined to think it's the latter.
We had a thread in our Arsenal forum where we analysed the goals conceded & tried to figure why we conceded.
Only a goal against Sunderland in FA cup, was due to poor positioning of Arteta & Song.
Most goals came from right or center backs being pulled too far.
Admit it, you are spoutting a cliched statement, and haven't really watched Arsenal much last season.
Have you actually played football?
If not, watch the next televised game very closely. Pay particular attention to the positions that central midfielders take up when one of the defenders gets caught upfield.
With that pair it wasn't characterised by anything of the sort and our defensive record was fine after the first 5/6 games until we had a blip losing 4 fullbacks for a spell and another losing Arteta. Song was outstanding attacking from CM (see your beloved assists) and Arteta did well in a deeper role.
Pogue, you show me 4 goals we conceded because of Song's positional sense going wrong and i will agree to your point.
Till then you are typing non-sense.
Till then you are typing non-sense.
It's typical, fullback in opposition half, can't defend.
DM in opposition half, poor positional sense.
DM in opposition half, poor positional sense.
Agreed personal terms with Barca: http://www.thenational.ae/sport/football/alex-song-has-agreed-terms-with-barcelona
If Arsenal can get £20m they may aswell snap Barca's hands off.
If Arsenal can get £20m they may aswell snap Barca's hands off.
Isn't that completely illegal? That article says they did the same thing with Fabregas - agreed personal terms with him before approaching Arsenal. I didn't think you were allowed to do that. If nothing else, it's a cnut's move because it basically gets the player on your side before you start even negotiating with the club, putting the seller on the back foot because they're in a position where the player is telling them they want to leave, too.
Which is why I'm pretty sure it's illegal. fecking Barcelona.
Which is why I'm pretty sure it's illegal. fecking Barcelona.
Doubt that'll make Van Persie too happy if true.
RVP is 'buzzing' at the Arsenal training camp apparently, though I rather fancy that Wenger has been spiking him with MDMA in an effort to get him to sign a new contract, that or he is just looking forward to joining a big club.
It's how every club does it.
He's not going. We won't sell, they don't need him enough to push it.
Yes, an institution like Barcelona generating € 500 million revenues a year makes illegal moves in the transfer market. Your investigations on random internet sites have unconverved them. Good job, Sherlock.
Essentially it's tapping up.
Essebtially it's standard practice nowadays.
He would only end up being a backup player there. Seems a bit of a strange move.
Maybe they will go with a 2-8-0 formation.
If that's the sacrifice he has to make to get some silverware in his career, he might consider it seriously
People say that about most players transferring to the really top clubs. I'm sure they all arrive there believing that they can force their way into the best XI. They need that self-belief to be the players they are.
Isn't the standard order that the buying club asks permission to speak with a player to formally see whether they're interested in joining, personal terms can be agreed right there before the two clubs start negotiating a fee. So the article would suggest that Arsenal were aware of Barca's interest and gave them permission to speak to Song - it doesn't necessarily mean that they'll sell him though it usually works out that way eventually.
As far as I understand it, any approach without the permission of the club is illegal and can be reported, but that when it does happen it's something that can be incredibly hard to prove.
Probably have the same role as Keita. That or play as a centre back.
Assuming Barca are after Song as a cheaper alternative to Javi Martinez. With them out of the race we should pay whatever Bilbao are after.
Release clause is £32m. Bayern are still interested, although they won't pay that much apparently.
That's true. To make it as a top professional you have to believe you are the best. Having said that, I can't see him displacing any of the current Barca team right now.