Bizarre. He's genuinely class and yet you do him a disservice with that. He's not a brilliant defensive player, but he's got decent defensive qualities and brilliant attacking ones.
Alex Song
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Bizarre. He's genuinely class and yet you do him a disservice with that. He's not a brilliant defensive player, but he's got decent defensive qualities and brilliant attacking ones.
In fairness Pete, the attacking quality in his game is something that's only recently come to the fore.
Fans of other sides can be forgiven for having a perception that he's an average holding midfielder; it's what he's spent most of his time at Arsenal doing.
On last season's form, Arsenal have a good player on their hands; and a player that I would like United to sign.
But at Arsenal he seems like your most natural holding option, and if you're saying that that's not the case, then I think you're going to be very easy to play through again this season...
EDIT - Plus, yer man Alastair seems to think he's a DM.
Correct.
He's the more defensive of the two of him and Wilshere, which is our first choice CM. He's been a good player for about two years, he played in a more advanced role last season since Arteta's passing lacks penetration. We haven't had a holding player since Gilberto left and he didn't sit in front of the back 4 either.
So who's going to hold then?
I agree with Pete that you lot attack with the whole front six - but it's a ridiculously naive way of playing, and the reason United have picked you off time and again.
I'm not denying that he wasn't a good performer the season before last, but he only really became a prominent creative player for you lot last season. Some of his assists were fantastic. Perhaps I'm doing him a disservice in criticising his defensive game - it would seem it's not his natural game.
But, I do think Arsenal are lacking a natural holding player. Granted, Silva wasn't of the Makelele ilk, but he was disciplined and gave you insurance while the rest played ahead of him. The Invincible team had him holding, with five attacking. Your current set up is too gung ho, in my opinion.
It depends, either one of Arteta or Song. The partnership improved throughout the season and it turned out to be Arteta slightly more than Song for most of the latter half of the season.
Unfortunately at times when we where chasing a goal and Arteta wasn't in the side it sometimes turned out to be neither deep lying midfielders.
Could well be that Arteta could work better deeper, especially if he's more of a metronome and less of a penetrative passer as Pete says.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of these people who thinks you need a big clogging destroyer at the base of the midfield, but a well balanced team definitely needs someone with proper defensive nous - it's an area that your squad is weak.
You've got bigger problems in CM than us pal.
So I've heard. For the last three years. And yet...
Edit: interesting that you class Wilshere as one of your first choice duo. I can't remember the last time he played...
Not that great of a player in a 2 man midfield which is why he isn't the "best DM" in the league. When Arteta was injured, he missed him the most.
Aside from that though, he is a quality player, his link up play with Van Persie was at the times the best in the league between a midfielder and a striker.
Aside from that though, he is a quality player, his link up play with Van Persie was at the times the best in the league between a midfielder and a striker.
About as long ago as Vidic, isn't he one of your first choice CBs?
Sod off - I'm the one trying to do the wumming.
What about Diaby? He is always injured.
Arguable. But ye have bigger problems everywhere else than us.
About to do an RvP and rise from the grave like Lazarus (not Mark for any old gits tuning in).
Anyone who doesn't think we could do with Song has lost the plot IMO. You could argue he can do this or that better but he is a quality all-round midfielder.
Paul Scholes, even at 40, walks into that Arsenal first XI. Shit, at 60 he'd still hobble into it.
This is probably his make or break season.
Wasn't Song a CB at first? Another player under Wenger who seems to move positions.
He played there in some Carling Cup games and looked amazing coming out with the ball.
Just to add to my post from earlier, whilst Song is, for me, still a DM, it's clear that he offers more to the team than mere defensive screening. He's hardly De Jong-esque.
He's a great passer, both simply and creatively, and he really helps us out in big games - usually being one of the men of the match. I find if there is a criticism of Song it's in the lesser games when he spends far too much time in the opposition half. It's almost like when he respects the opposition midfield, he'll actually do his job properly.
That's not to say he shouldn't be pressing forward when he can(Arteta can help out) but I'd just like to see a little bit more common sense from time to time. He's still class though, and would walk into every midfield in the league.
He's a great passer, both simply and creatively, and he really helps us out in big games - usually being one of the men of the match. I find if there is a criticism of Song it's in the lesser games when he spends far too much time in the opposition half. It's almost like when he respects the opposition midfield, he'll actually do his job properly.
That's not to say he shouldn't be pressing forward when he can(Arteta can help out) but I'd just like to see a little bit more common sense from time to time. He's still class though, and would walk into every midfield in the league.
Looks like Beckenbaur when he plays CB.
We're stronger all over the park, then Arsenal, but Song is an excellent player.
He's athletic, but not particularly good defensively, not bad either though.
He's athletic, but not particularly good defensively, not bad either though.
If Cazorla comes(please, God) then Song-Wilshere/Arteta-Cazorla will be a better midfield three than you can put out.
Cazorla still has to adapt to the league, Wilshere needs to make a full recovery (he may take a while to get back to where he was, like Ramsey, better player though he was before the injury) and Arteta is decent.
Even with everyone fit, I'd say it's up for debate against: Carrick-Cleverley and whomever (Ando, Scholes, Kagawa (who also needs to adapt))
But hopefully, our spending isn't over this summer...
Theres no guarantee that Cazorla would play in the middle. He's exactly the kind of player Wenger sticks out on the wings
The big thing is that you will probably strengthen in the area - I can't believe you won't.
Carrick's great, Cleverley is really still unproven, Anderson's a bit random, Scholes is fine once a week, and Kagawa will be fine. If you add one more top player, you'll be laughing.
It's virtually guaranteed with Theo, Gervinho, and Oxlade-Chamberlain all playing wide, with Podolski someone who can come in off the left. We're loaded wide.
According to you he wasn't coming to Arsenal at all. Now you can tell us where he's going to play.
Oxlaide has played in the middle more than Cazorla has. And Cazorla is better than all your wide players and played for Villarreal, Malaga and Spain in wide positions. And he's a lot like Nasri who you also used wide.
I still dont think he is, but the rumours are strong. Cant hide my head in thestand, would be very impressed if you signed him. Also very dissappointed if Valencia havent come in for him with the Alba money.
The fact he'd clearly improve us says far more about our own situation & our seeming unwillingness to address a clear weakness in the squad. I think Song's a good player but is far from the elite level we should really be looking at.
I'd miss watching Rooney destroy him each time we play Arsenal should he leave.
I'd miss watching Rooney destroy him each time we play Arsenal should he leave.
Played at least half of his football centrally for Malaga, and he doesn't hog the ball and slow down attacks like Nasri does if there's something else on.
I'd imagine he will play wide if he signs, but not as often as through the middle.
Ayslum's about right.
Carrick wipes the park with any of them, Scholes makes Wilshere look like an amateur. Arteta your 5th most important player, is over rated.
Plus when was the last time you seen united play with 3 in the middle?
Carrick does not wipe the park with any of them - he's a good player, but no.
Scholes is fine once a week, but no more. He's being removed gradually, and a fit Wilshere is better than the current Scholes.
Arteta isn't really over-rated. He performs an important role in the side, no more.
Saw them plenty in the first half of last season and he wasnt playing centrally in any of them, but I just looked at their lineups in the last 3 matches of the season on whoscored.com and if these are legit, Malaga went nuts with attacking players in the business end of the season and he may have played CM. I question it because Eliseu is used at left back for them so its incredibly unlikely that Eliseu is playing left wing and Cazorla behind him in CM, but regardless they have plenty of attacking players in front of both players so I'm not surprised they did so poorly.
Before those was a match against Valencia that I watched and he played off the striker so that Isco can play on the left. Isco's former club and Joaquin's too on the other wing. Before that he was picked on the right. So I dont think its anywhere near half his games for Malaga, more like 3 or 4 in central midfield in a nuts lineup full of wideplayers and strikers and a game behind the striker against Valencia.
Any of them is a bit of an exaggeration. I'd have to be honest and admit that a fit Wilshere is better than Carrick. Song's a completely different player to Carrick but of similar ability in my opinion. Arteta isn't really overrated. In fact, he was actually underrated for a while last season. I'd say that while Carrick has a better defensive game than Arteta, Arteta's passing game and ability to control games is better.
Scholes is better than Wilshere, but if Wilshere gets fit again then I expect him to be at least as good as Scholes when he hits his peak. Plus, there's the detrimental fact with Scholes that in his old age he's not overly mobile can only really play once a week.