Aleksandar Dragović - defender - possible target?
- Thread starter Kant-ona
- Start date
Of course. As everyone should.
Saying that we have been arguably the worst team in the transfer market in the last few years. The only real successes since we signed Vidic and Evra have been Tevez (considering that he was on a loan), De Gea, RVP and Hernandez. Probably Nani, Valencia and Rafael too.
Which is really bad considering how many others have failed or just didn't made an impact here.
Because there are actually ppl that watched him a lot more than just on some freaking YoutTube vids.
You won't get many better CBs at that age. Simple as.
I'll leave it at that this thread is a disaster with too many ppl that have never even heard his name suddenly coming out and claiming he wasn't good enough.
Yeah, but it was a bit different without the FFP in place, plus some player choose to go somewhere else (Bale for example). We wanted Hazard, Lucas, and players like that, but were constantly outbid, so had to go for cheaper players (but we were monitoring Thigao, Strootman, Herrera 2-3 years ago).
When you look at our targets after last year and this year they do look much better, so let's hope that Dragović is one of the players who are good but because of where they play were not on other clubs radar that much.
Did you watch him? I am just asking because I am to lazy to read the whole topic, so want to know what to expect
?Bit harsh on Carrick, and Mata imo, and it's way too early to be judging this seasons purchases just yet, sure Di Maria, Herrera, and Shaw will come good with time.
You also have to remember the market we were dipping into since Vidic, and Evra, we were very much after bargains/future stars, players like Obertan, Owen, and Young wouldn't have been on the agenda if we hadn't been held back in the transfer, our one big money signing in the midst of the worse of the debt was Berbatov and he was class, but just didn't fit Fergie's style.
Anderson, Hargreaves, and to a lesser extent Young have been expensive flops since the Glazer takeover which isn't too bad really, for me 'small money' punts like Tosic, Bebe, Buttner etc just can't be counted as we were almost forced into it.
Oh wow, this seems to have gathered pace. So this could actually be happening?
Forgot about Carrick. And I doubt that Mata was even scouted. Similarily to Di Maria, it was just a world class player becoming available.
The cheap punts (or even more expensive but unknow players) - which in my opinion is tha place when scouts can show how good they are - have been pretty bad. Hernandez great, Rafael would have been great if it wasn't for injuries and pretty much that's it. Then we have Bebe, Obertan, Diouff, Dong, Tosic and many others that failed.
It has to be said that we have bee very bad in transfer market. Even expensive signings didn't work well (Berba, Anderson, Young, Fellaini) while some were just okay (Nani and Valencia). So not very convinced if our scouts say that he's a good player.
I forgot about Carrick, he was a class signing. Also, Hargreaves was a great buy if we look at his performances, but the injuries made it a "wrong transfer".
I think that Valencia was actually very good in his first three years, but later (especially after the injury against Ajax) he started to play worse and worse.
Fellaini also wasn't scouted, like di Maria and Mata, while I think that Nani and Anderson just didn't fulfill their potential.
I agree that we didn't really do well with transfers (I do think that with defenders we did a good job, but didn't do the transition the proper way, so they need a bit more time), the rest wasn't that good, but again, we didn't really go for big names, but more for players who could play in more positions and do the job (without the need to be excellent).
Now, Dragović is doing good (from what I can read here) in the national team, his last three clubs, so he sounds promising.
The scouts only make reports, for example it is known that the scouts targeted Ribery as a Ronaldo replacement Fergie chose Valencia, they targeted De Gea when the club wanted Neuer, they targeted Herrera, Strootman and Thiago , and Moyes chose Fellaini.
Well whoscored is a bit inaccurate this season IMO. Evans having a higher rating than Herrera, Carrick, De Gea and Mata shows how bad is it.
Bought 5 defenders since Vidic and Evra.
Shaw £30m
Rojo £15m
Buttner £4m
Jones £15m
Smalling £7m
Best trick for centre backs is taking off blocked shots and dribbled past stats. Dawson, Fazio, Williams, Evans, Jones and guys like that drop quite substantially.
No point having a centre back who has to block a shot because he wasn't close enough to mark someone or lets someone past him.
Shaw £30m
Rojo £15m
Buttner £4m
Jones £15m
Smalling £7m
Best trick for centre backs is taking off blocked shots and dribbled past stats. Dawson, Fazio, Williams, Evans, Jones and guys like that drop quite substantially.
No point having a centre back who has to block a shot because he wasn't close enough to mark someone or lets someone past him.
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Rafael and Fabio also!
From that list, players who do have enough quality, or enough potential (in my opinion) are Shaw, Rafael (Fabio also, but injuries....) and Smalling for sure, while Jones and Rojo need more time (as CB's, especially Jones).
Whoscored gave David Luiz the same rating as Boateng in the 7-1 loss at the World Cup, they actually rated David Luiz as the best Brazilian on the pitch. I've no idea what criteria they use to rate defenders, but the rating clearly can't be taken seriously.
Evra was one of the best defenders in the league according to them (in his last years) and we all know he wasn't even close).
Nothing more to say about that then. Boateng was an absolute beast. The less said about Luiz the better.
I don't think Boateng had a lot to do in that game, but it was certainly a lot better than anything David Luiz did, who deserved the worst possible rating ever given to a centerback and not one that made it look like he had a decent game.
With a name like that it doesn't matter how good he actually is. Sign him up.
They take in account only "actions". For example a dribble past a player, an accurate/inaccurate pass, winning/losing possession, won/loast aerial duels. That way positioning and marking has no real effect on the rating. That's why proactive defenders (those that tackle, intercept, win aerials, make a lot of accurate passes) are rated so highly - Jones is the perfect example. Also, we apparently have a better defense than Chelsea...
Whoscored's stats are very useful and I often look at them. The ratings though are just for fun, I never take them seriously. Those for attackers are somewhat sensible in about half of the cases but you should never pay attention to a defender's.
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Remember him from his time in the Austrian league and Basel, of course. In all honesty, I'd take him over Smalling, Evans or Jones anyday.
I can't get excited about this signing. I'd rather we wait till summer and get either Hummels or Godin instead of signing someone who isn't in top tier.
I think he knows we need to attack more and it won't happen unless we sign a defender now. We cannot afford to be dropping more points because we are having to be too defensive. That Top 4 is vital, especially to attract the right players in the summer. Shaw, Herrera(who actually gave up CL to come to us) and Rojo would have come here anyway. Real wanted rid of ADM and PSG couldn't get him because of FFP, Falcao was touted about and we were the only ones who bit. Next season we will be going for players who CL will be the deciding factor. We lost potential signing this season because we weren't in it.
Its just because there's no stat for specifically giving the ball away in dangerous areas. If there was, Evans would be rated lower.
Instead he's rated decently because he's made a fairly good amount of tackles, interceptions and quite a few passes.
More importantly Ander has had 6 starts and 6 sub appearances, while Evans has made 9 starts with 1 sub and its easier to get a higher rating when you play a full game.
Carrick has barely won the ball this season (he started the season averaging the most interceptions in the league, now he's only 1.5 per game), hasnt played as many passes as in previous seasons and when he does pass its strictly a safe pass sideways, since thats how we play these days. Its no surprise to me that that he isnt highly rated.
Mata hasnt been that good aside for a couple of games. Again just sideways passing, but with a decent amount of goals. He has improved but he was completely ineffective until recent months.
The goalkeeper ratings arent really worth looking at.
Still, its best to just use the ratings against players from the same position. Jones, Smalling and Rojo all rate higher than Evans - is that a coincidence?
Whoscored can feck off. Just watch the game. It's not hard.
Are we actually going to sign this guy??? We always seem to be "weighing up a bid" or "preparing a bid" just fecking sign him he's exactly what we need.
You can't watch all 20 teams in a league or every team in Europe. Can be a useful way of seeing who's end product's lacking and who ups their image with workrate over defensive solidity (Matic, Fernandinho, Jedinak).
It's the mark of a weirdo, I reckon. I don't watch Ukrainian football so don't comment on the players there. I certainly don't list off some daft stats and then pretend as if I'm informed in any kind of realistic way.
If you watch a player and can use statistics to support an argument then I'm inclined to take more interest.
Ferdinand? Rio Ferdinand? Bullying physical opposition strikers???
You know which one he is, right?
Imagine if your the opposition striker and you know you're going to be up against a player called....
"Aleksandar Dragovic"
The name alone is enough to strike fear into anyone.
Seriously though I don't know anything about him at all so if we do sign him I hope he can come good.
"Aleksandar Dragovic"
The name alone is enough to strike fear into anyone.
Seriously though I don't know anything about him at all so if we do sign him I hope he can come good.
So we've had views ranging from he's absolutely brilliant, to he's utter shit?
Looks like none of us have a clue in all honesty. Could be the next Vidic, could be the next Buttner.
Looks like none of us have a clue in all honesty. Could be the next Vidic, could be the next Buttner.
How are the stats daft? Take lacazette for example I know just from reading whoscored that he is the most talented young striker in Europe this season, I don't watch French football so I wouldn't know anything.
I like him. Sounds like a Bond villain.
This season has kind of confirmed for me Evans is done here, and Jones and Smalling are unlikely to ever reach the level we need, so im all for signing this guy if hes as good as those who have watched him say.
This season has kind of confirmed for me Evans is done here, and Jones and Smalling are unlikely to ever reach the level we need, so im all for signing this guy if hes as good as those who have watched him say.
Well I usually look at their whoscored ratings, FIFA stats and FM stats. If the player has good stats in any 2 of them then I'm sold.
Like who?
I just posted them because I saw them. I didnt say "This proves he's the 15th best player in Kiev". I have no idea if he is or isnt, but clearly with their formula he hasn't performed very well in the europa league this season.
However, it does make me hesitate to believe all the posters in here talking about him being an improvement over Smalling. I'm expecting him to be about the level of the last player that lots of posters claimed would be better than Smalling and sort out our defence, Rojo
Not saying that all stats are daft, but that's a perfect example of how they can skew your perception: they don't take into account the quality of the competition. There could easily be players better than Lacazette around, but have worse statistics because they're playing in a harder league, or because their teammates are lower quality in relation to their opponents, and so on. I think stats are a good way to back up your opinion on a player, but they're not good as the sole basis of your opinion.
So we've had views ranging from he's absolutely brilliant, to he's utter shit?
Looks like none of us have a clue in all honesty. Could be the next Vidic, could be the next Buttner.
There are about five Austrian United supporters in this thread who have watched him on a regular basis since he broke through at Austria Vienna, so we have a clue how good he is. One thing's for sure, he's an awful lot better on the ball than Smalling, Jones and Evans, good in the air and very commanding. Excellent (young) CB are quite rare in Europe at the moment, but he's one of them IMO. If we don't snap him up now another top tier club will do so within the next couple of seasons.
I do wonder if there are many who have actually watched him a lot. Seems to me there's a lot of oh he must be better than what we have, based on youtube & maybe the odd game where they've seen him. Personally I'm waiting to see if anything develops & then find out if he's any good. Of the very limited time I've seen him, I have seen far better central defenders around his age.