Alejandro Garnacho (out) | Chelsea make enquiries

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Berbaclass said:
I wasn't referring to you specifically. I've just seen a lot of mental and mathematical gymnastics to try and justify why we should ask for more.
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Fair enough. I made a mistake with the numbers, I remembered the headline €100m incorrectly.
 
He really has massively dipped in form this season, which you just wouldn't expect from a 20 year old becoming more and more of a first teamer. What's his defining trait? Not great technically, not ultra fast, not an out and out goal scorer. He has moments of brilliance but I'm just not sure I see *star* with him.

And I do think it says a lot that it's not every team in Europe is desperate to sign him, it's really just Napoli, straight after they sold their best player. There's a chance we could actually be on the other side of a transfer for once, where we are actually selling to the desperate club.

You combine that with his attitude problems, and his lack of fit with the system, and I really do not have a problem selling.
 
Berbaclass said:
Of course, you can answer in theory, it's £300 million.
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Yes, in theory, but it would only break even for this financial year (we'd be £60m in the hole every year in years 2, 3 ,4 and 5 and therefore the sum that United can commit to transfers if the Garnacho deal goes through is nowhere near £300m (unless you think we have another four Garnachos lined up and ready to be sold every year for the next four years and cash flow to support the balance of payments for the new players).
 
Roboc7 said:
It could be a good decision if he doesn’t really get any better. Sometimes we have been too short sighted in terms of giving youngsters big new contracts or players don’t develop as expected.

These are the type of decisions we need to start getting right, and if we do sell need to ensure the money is spent wisely. In theory the money raised could fast track upgrading the team but putting that into practice is a lot more difficult.
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Again, the amount of people acting like it's a purely systemic sale, as opposed to simply cashing in on what we might deem to be peak value when we HAVE to sell players, is very frustrating. Garnacho doesn't have some outstanding qualities that make it worth Amorim tweaking the system around.
 
I think getting wingbacks and selling Garnacho will help us, I also think Rashford needs to head to the exit as soon as possible. He hasn't matured in his entire career and still cant find a pass.
 
chris123 said:
He really has massively dipped in form this season, which you just wouldn't expect from a 20 year old becoming more and more of a first teamer. What's his defining trait? Not great technically, not ultra fast, not an out and out goal scorer. He has moments of brilliance but I'm just not sure I see *star* with him.

And I do think it says a lot that it's not every team in European desperate to sign him, it's really just Napoli, straight after they solid their best player. There's a chance we could actually be on the other side of a transfer for once, where we are actually selling to the desperate club.

You combine that with his attitude problems, and his lack of fit with the system, and I really do not have a problem selling.
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Yeah I'm in total agreement here. Too many are just looking at his age and decent production and then extrapolating that to some elite growth scale thinking he'll be in world XI's potentially in a few years. Not enough are actually looking at the player objectively and trying to figure out WHERE that fabled improvement comes from.
 
Infra-red said:
Yes, in theory, but it would only break even for this financial year (we'd be £60m in the hole every year in years 2, 3 ,4 and 5 and therefore the sum that United can commit to transfers if the Garnacho deal goes through is nowhere near £300m (unless you think we have another four Garnachos lined up and ready to be sold every year for the next four years and cash flow to support the balance of payments for the new players).
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I'm fully aware of the repercussions over the next 5 years with that sort of outlay. I of course don't think it would be wise either.

We will save a lot of money in the summer getting rid of Casemiro, Eriksen, Evans, Malacia, Lindelof, Shaw(?) and Rashford hopefully. That would allow us a lot more breathing room with their wages alone.
 
Everyone is posting like the club are forcing him out but he'll have allowed his agent to speak to other people, I do wonder how much he wants to be here and suspect the club know as much, I was intrigued to see Chelsea asking for information on attitude etc, do wonder if there is more to this than meets the eye and it just makes sense for all parties right now
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Yeah I'm in total agreement here. Too many are just looking at his age and decent production and then extrapolating that to some elite growth scale thinking he'll be in world XI's potentially in a few years. Not enough are actually looking at the player objectively and trying to figure out WHERE that fabled improvement comes from.
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All I'm seeing is speculation and circular reasoning to justify their position, from both sides.

It is never good to sell young players with potential, but if Amorin is here for the long term and Garnacho doesn't fit the system there is not much we can do.

Comparing him to Ronaldo is pointless. Ronaldo, one of the greatest players of all time, was managed by the greatest manager of all time and played in an already established, winning team, a situation very different from what Garnacho is facing
 
Keyser said:
Everyone is posting like the club are forcing him out but he'll have allowed his agent to speak to other people, I do wonder how much he wants to be here and suspect the club know as much, I was intrigued to see Chelsea asking for information on attitude etc, do wonder if there is more to this than meets the eye and it just makes sense for all parties right now
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Of course he wants to go, he hasn't got the mentality to play for Manchester United.
 
Rojofiam said:
Okay, but then he didn't have more than 2 bad ones either. And those bad seasons came in teams that the underlying statistics had finishing mid-table or even lower.
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So, for such a wonderful player, he couldn't shine more than any other run of the mill player. That means he's not as great as you're trying to make out.
 
Big Andy said:
I remember when Adnan Januzaj first broke through and started off like a house on fire. PSG offered £40m and we turned it down. Hindsight says we should've taken that deal.
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Yep. Keeping these youngsters and financially committing to them is also a risk. Garnacho's put his head down and worked hard even when the tactics didn't suit him. It doesn't look like his skill set fits the direction the club is going tactically. If he wants out and United can get good money for him it's a win-win. There's no guarantee he'll continue to be as motivated as he is now if he's forced to stay.
 
We'll sell him on the last day of the window, and not leave time to buy a couple of new players.
 
Tibs said:
We'll sell him on the last day of the window, and not leave time to buy a couple of new players.
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That's the only fear I have. We just have to hope we are lining things up before we sell to avoid paying more out of desperation.
 
Carl said:
Think it's more a skillset thing than understanding tbh. I don't doubt he understands the change, but the things he's good at don't really lend themselves to it.

If he was going to nail down a spot in this system he'd be more suited to wingback IMO.
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I dunno. Who would have thought Giggs would transition into a central midfielder, well past 30? Rio was once an attacking midfielder. Bale was once a subpar left back. Players evolve, adapt and even become better players as a result.
 
I don't believe the Chelsea interest.

I think we are being used (willingly) for you to coax more money out of Napoli, while we use the headlines as a form of misdirection to complete a big deal.

It's all subterfuge, bluff and Ben Chilwell being eased into your club on deadline day as a thank you.
 
chris123 said:
He really has massively dipped in form this season, which you just wouldn't expect from a 20 year old becoming more and more of a first teamer. What's his defining trait? Not great technically, not ultra fast, not an out and out goal scorer. He has moments of brilliance but I'm just not sure I see *star* with him.

And I do think it says a lot that it's not every team in Europe is desperate to sign him, it's really just Napoli, straight after they sold their best player. There's a chance we could actually be on the other side of a transfer for once, where we are actually selling to the desperate club.

You combine that with his attitude problems, and his lack of fit with the system, and I really do not have a problem selling.
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I can see why you'd say that given the 'eye test' of his performances but he's nearly already matched his stats for last season (8+5 G/A vs. 10+5 last season) and he's having to struggle to adapt to a new system as well as having to deal with the turmoil of a mid-season manager change. That, plus he's 20.

It really makes me feel uneasy that it's come to this, and I genuinely think we're making a mistake here. I think we should only be selling at the point where it's become clear a player needs to move on, I don't think we're anywhere near there yet with Garnacho and there's enough to suggest he can be a very good player for us.

It feels like we're betting everything on 343 being the system this club will stick to for the next few years and I feel massively pessimistic about that being the case.

The only thing that makes me think maybe we get rid is just the vibe he gives off... there have been a couple of flags over the last few years which suggest his attitude may be a problem. Still though my gut tells me we're making a mistake here and symbolically (selling a talented academy product way before his peak, as opposed to Rashford/McTominay where they've clearly hit their top level and we know it's not good enough) it feels quite depressing and against the spirit of the club.
 
Berbaclass said:
He obviously wants to go
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How it is obvious? Is he the first player who has received bids?

Rashford who is not even getting serious offers is frozen out because he wanted out. Garnacho is playing. I am not sure its that obvious.

He is one of the players in our squad that will actually fetch some money that we desperately need
 
Just Hope said:
All I'm seeing is speculation and circular reasoning to justify their position, from both sides.

It is never good to sell young players with potential, but if Amorin is here for the long term and Garnacho doesn't fit the system there is not much we can do.

Comparing him to Ronaldo is pointless. Ronaldo, one of the greatest players of all time, was managed by the greatest manager of all time and played in an already established, winning team, a situation very different from what Garnacho is facing
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Yeah I’ve said before, in a perfect world we just keep him and see what ends up happening with his development, but the hard truth is we HAVE to sell someone and he’s the best bet of current value to sell.

And yes every Ronaldo comp should be met with a threadban. Because not only is it unfair to the current player, but Ronaldo also gets SEVERELY downplayed as a talent.
 
pratyush_utd said:
How it is obvious? Is he the first player who has received bids?

Rashford who is not even getting serious offers is frozen out because he wanted out. Garnacho is playing. I am not sure its that obvious.

He is only few players that will actually fetch us some money
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Rashford said it publically. Garnacho has been shopping himself about with his agents.
 
Kablamo said:
I don't believe the Chelsea interest.

I think we are being used (willingly) for you to coax more money out of Napoli, while we use the headlines as a form of misdirection to complete a big deal.

It's all subterfuge, bluff and Ben Chilwell being eased into your club on deadline day as a thank you.
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No KP nuts for you.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Yeah I’ve said before, in a perfect world we just keep him and see what ends up happening with his development, but the hard truth is we HAVE to sell someone and he’s the best bet of current value to sell.

And yes every Ronaldo comp should be met with a threadban. Because not only is it unfair to the current player, but Ronaldo also gets SEVERELY downplayed as a talent.
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Agree. Here is hoping that if we sell him we bring someone to replace him, otherwise we will be worse.
 
Napoli are actually insane. €45m? But yet they will ask for Heaven and Earth for Osimhen.
 
sugar_kane said:
I can see why you'd say that given the 'eye test' of his performances but he's nearly already matched his stats for last season (8+5 G/A vs. 10+5 last season) and he's having to struggle to adapt to a new system as well as having to deal with the turmoil of a mid-season manager change. That, plus he's 20.

It really makes me feel uneasy that it's come to this, and I genuinely think we're making a mistake here. I think we should only be selling at the point where it's become clear a player needs to move on, I don't think we're anywhere near there yet with Garnacho and there's enough to suggest he can be a very good player for us.

It feels like we're betting everything on 343 being the system this club will stick to for the next few years and I feel massively pessimistic about that being the case.

The only thing that makes me think maybe we get rid is just the vibe he gives off... there have been a couple of flags over the last few years which suggest his attitude may be a problem. Still though my gut tells me we're making a mistake here and symbolically (selling a talented academy product way before his peak, as opposed to Rashford/McTominay where they've clearly hit their top level and we know it's not good enough) it feels quite depressing and against the spirit of the club.
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Totally understand where you are coming from, and I agree with a lot of you said, but maybe the bolded part has actually been our problem? You can't make profit and generate revenue off of players that have already ceased to have value and clearly need a chance of scenery. You can see Rashford as example 1 of that. Compare what we would have got for Rashford two years ago compared to today where we can't even loan him out because of his wages.

Maybe it is time we take a page out of City's playbook, because for every Cole Palmer sale they've had, they've also had a Zinchenko, Gabriel Jesus and Raheem Sterling. Jury is still out on whether Alvarez will be worth it.
 
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