[Dion]

Read the thread buddy - there’s hundreds of posters of 100+ pages that agree.

I'm sure you that's how you feel. But unless you have an actual argument to make I'm not sure what you're still posting for.

 

[Zumbi]

I'm sure you that's how you feel. But unless you have an actual argument to make I'm not sure what you're still posting for.

For what feels like the 100th time, the argument is that Garnacho would be a more effective player is he shot less and passed and crossed more. The evidence is from all the matches he has played this season. Really not sure how that very simple argument is still eluding you. It’s remarkably obtuse.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Well actually, it's more because his shot volume is pretty much bang average for a wide forward. Those two were just examples from players who play in similar teams. Cunha isn't actually all that better at shooting than average, certainly this season his conversion rate is outright deceptive. He's disgustingly over-performed this season to a level nobody is going to sustain (he's the league leader in this with almost twice his xG), he's pretty average at finishing if you look across a wider sample size. Though it's worth highlighting when he was Garnacho's age he was similarly under-performing, it's not actually all that uncommon. He finished below his xG in 5 of his first 6 seasons.

Except that's not the assumption, nobody said he will automatically do anything. You've actually touched on the solution yourself (partly) below in the second bolded bit. While I fundamentally disagree that a 20 year old winger isn't going to improve physically, I think it's pretty much guaranteed, there's a lot of things he can do (like making more intelligent runs with the ball across defenders rather than trying to run straight past them) or, as you said, actually start running with his head up more so he can attack space rather than being shepherded into dead ends, that will help him significantly in all aspects of his game.

Agree with your point about how it's unwise to use shot conversion comparisons from this season to bash Garnacho and argue that replacing him with Cunha this season would be a no-brainer.

I remember in December reading that Hojlund's shot conversion rate at United was in the top 5% in Europe. People would draw conclusions from this that he was a clinical striker who was feeding off scraps. When in reality, you'd rather have someone who took a higher volume of shots with a lower conversion rate.

We're already boring enough under Amorim already without getting rid of one of our only players who carves out shooting opportunities for himself and replacing him with a low volume shooter. Also when you compare his age and disciplinary record to Cunha, this would be a transfer decision that I think we'd regret.

 

[Waynne]

Would instruct him to rather pass to another team mate in threatening positions because his shooting is utter crap. Either straight at the goalkeeper or over the bar.

 

[Carl]

We're in a position right now where we need him in one of those number 10 spots. Would really love to see how he would get on at RWB though personally.

Not sure Garna's ego would allow it, but feel like he has all the traits to play there.

 

[Dion]

Agree with your point about how it's unwise to use shot conversion comparisons from this season to bash Garnacho and argue that replacing him with Cunha this season would be a no-brainer.

I remember in December reading that Hojlund's shot conversion rate at United was in the top 5% in Europe. People would draw conclusions from this that he was a clinical striker who was feeding off scraps. When in reality, you'd rather have someone who took a higher volume of shots with a lower conversion rate.

We're already boring enough under Amorim already without getting rid of one of our only players who carves out shooting opportunities for himself and replacing him with a low volume shooter. Also when you compare his age and disciplinary record to Cunha, this would be a transfer decision that I think we'd regret.

I've still got doubts about Cunha if I'm honest, although I think he's the right profile of player. I think he might have a bit of Elanga at Forest about him in that he's playing in a perfect team for him (plus he's having an all time great season in terms of his finishing). £40m and he'd be a good punt, £60m+ and it's a massive risk.

For what feels like the 100th time, the argument is that Garnacho would be a more effective player is he shot less and passed and crossed more. The evidence is from all the matches he has played this season. Really not sure how that very simple argument is still eluding you. It’s remarkably obtuse.

Nothing about the argument eludes me, it just doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

However, in this case the specific argument I was referencing was the 'everyone agrees with me' argument, which is not an argument at all.

 

[Trex]

We're in a position right now where we need him in one of those number 10 spots. Would really love to see how he would get on at RWB though personally.

Not sure Garna's ego would allow it, but feel like he has all the traits to play there.

Too lightweight, and not defensively responsible enough.

 

[Frank White]

We're in a position right now where we need him in one of those number 10 spots. Would really love to see how he would get on at RWB though personally.

Not sure Garna's ego would allow it, but feel like he has all the traits to play there.

That's Amads position no?

 

[Carl]

Too lightweight, and not defensively responsible enough.

Amorim favoured very attacking wingbacks at Sporting, and he does enough defensively in my opinion.

That's Amads position no?

Honestly don't think he's got the engine to play there long term. Think he'll be one of the options at #10.

Amad's injury history is concerning too in all honesty.

 

[Zumbi]

Nothing about the argument eludes me, it just doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

However, in this case the specific argument I was referencing was the 'everyone agrees with me' argument, which is not an argument at all.

That wasn’t my argument - that’s was just a response to something you said. Do catch up.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

That's Amads position no?

I don't have the stats to hand, but I'm pretty sure Amad played more minutes in the 10 position than he did at RWB. Would've been good to see Amorim try out a few of our attacking players at wing back during all those weeks we suffered through watching Mazraoui and Dalot either side.

 

[Adamsk7]

Due to our financial position I really feel he’s gonna get sold and we will spend the money on Cunha. One in, one out.

 

[JBG]

 

[Pexbo]

Had this discussion with my brothers. I think it’s the right move. I just don’t think his ceiling is that much higher than what we are seeing now. £60m for Garnacho and £62m for Cunha would be a fair swap

 

[JBG]

Had this discussion with my brothers. I think it’s the right move. I just don’t think his ceiling is that much higher than what we are seeing now. £60m for Garnacho and £62m for Cunha would be a fair swap

I actually agree with this part, don't get me wrong, I think he'll become better, but not that much, as you say. And also if we get around £50-60m for him that's just great for our summer transfer budget.

 

[talking robot]

there may also be attitude/personality issues that we aren't aware of.

 

[dr.twinny]

Yeah I think it's the right move for both parties if we can get anywhere north of £60m for him.

 

[Red00012]

I’d give Garnacho another 12 months

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Reckon he goes if we don't get CL.

We'll need to sacrifice a player of real value without the CL money, and £60 million pure profit on the book in the first year is squad rebuilding money.

 

[VP89]

If we are selling Garnacho I'd like to see that other Argentine fella in!

 

[dr.twinny]

If we are selling Garnacho I'd like to see that other Argentine fella in!

Most definitely!

 

[sglowrider]

Most definitely!

If we are selling Garnacho I'd like to see that other Argentine fella in!

Not sure Messi will enjoy the rains as much especially after a couple of years of miami sunshine

 

[dubplate warrior]

He should be sold and that should he reinvested in better players across the squad. He really isn't all that.

 

[Quagmaguire]

If we are selling Garnacho I'd like to see that other Argentine fella in!

Masta guy? He is left footed and whilst Cherki is ambidextrous he would be best on the right aswell.

Cherki, Masta guy, Dibling all predominantly play on the right AM.

If we get rid of Garnacho we need to target an LAM.

 

[VP89]

Masta guy? He is left footed and whilst Cherki is ambidextrous he would be best on the right aswell.

Cherki, Masta guy, Dibling all predominantly play on the right AM.

If we get rid of Garnacho we need to target an LAM.

Cunha

 

[Quagmaguire]

Cunha

That's just one and then our whole season revolves around one wide LAM in the squad.

On the right we would have 2 if we signed someone like Cherki, Masta or Dibling to rotate with Amad.

I think we need to keep 4 players for the two wide spots.

We saw that soon as Amad was out injured we had nobody less to play.

Bruno is also rubbish as a wide AM and better in the centre.

 

[aeh1991]

Garnacho -> Mastanstuono please

 

[RuudTom83]

Any idea of selling Garnacho is another step in the wrong direction imo.

Removing his 15-20 G/A from this team? scoring is such a rarity as is, even if you add 1 or 2 attackers in the summer.

 

[dubplate warrior]

Masta guy? He is left footed and whilst Cherki is ambidextrous he would be best on the right aswell.

Cherki, Masta guy, Dibling all predominantly play on the right AM.

If we get rid of Garnacho we need to target an LAM.

Cunha says hey.

 

[Vidooq]

I understand why he would be sold, financially. However, I would not go as far to claim what his ceiling would be.

With the amount of shots he is taking, if he just slightly improves his finishing, which can be improved with training, he would be a proper player. He has become a problem for oposition by simply changing his style from taking shots to passing more. Vs Newcastle, for the first time ever, he showed that he has the ability to simply pass the ball into the net, a controled finish, where before, he was always going for power. He started doing more cut backs than taking shots.

The fact that I'm seeing little subtle changes in his game, tell me that he can become a really really good player, and that he is willing to change for the betterment of the team.

 

[aeh1991]

Masta guy? He is left footed and whilst Cherki is ambidextrous he would be best on the right aswell.

Cherki, Masta guy, Dibling all predominantly play on the right AM.

If we get rid of Garnacho we need to target an LAM.

we will have Cunha, Mount and Zirkzee there. Mainoo and Bruno can play there too. We can easily sign a R10 for Garnacho. Bring on Mastantuono

 

[Judas]

If he goes it's another hole that needs filling on top of all the other holes. I'm not totally against him going for a good price. But losing further attacking talent, given how much we already lack is worrying.

 

[Zumbi]

If he goes it's another hole that needs filling on top of all the other holes. I'm not totally against him going for a good price. But losing further attacking talent, given how much we already lack is worrying.

If he leaves though it would be precisely because of the funds that can be raised by selling him, which would put us in a stronger financial position to fill those holes. I doubt selling him would even be a consideration unless it actually helps us reinforce our attack, which seems to be the priority this summer.

Realistically he’ll be a bench player next season, and I don’t find it particularly hard to imagine how the £60 million or so we might be able to get for him could be better invested elsewhere.

 

[Posh Red]

Is £60m even realistic? I don’t see him fetching that fee.

 

[Zumbi]

Is £60m even realistic? I don’t see him fetching that fee.

Probably not no. €60/£50 million much more likely I reckon. Which I’d still take.

 

[Posh Red]

Probably not no. €60/£50 million much more likely I reckon. Which I’d still take.

I would see £50m as amazing from our perspective. I’m not convinced we would even get that, but maybe I’m underestimating him and his value.

 

[Quagmaguire]

I would see £50m as amazing from our perspective. I’m not convinced we would even get that, but maybe I’m underestimating him and his value.

Antony on current betis form is minimum worth 30m.

Garnacho is a better player whilst being 3-4 years younger.

He should be able to get a positive 50 million fee, in a league where there's space behind the back line for him to use his grade A positioning runs from in behind I'm sure here's going to be league class.

Shame, I will miss him though and at such a young age I would have loved to see him develop season by season.

He's like a little rat who's annoying & irritating in the home to the house fans, but he is also annoying and irritating to the opposition.

 

[JE-365]

If we are spending 60m plus on Cunha then there is likely chance Garnacho will leave. If Napoli comes and tell Garnacho that Conte wants the player to be his main attacker to challenge the Serie A, he won’t choose to stay at United to challenge for top 4 or mid table PL to sit on the bench or no guarantee to start.

He’s a winger. He’s not good in tight spaces to play in this L10 or R10. He should leave to play as a winger and fulfil his potential.

 

[ROFLUTION]

Any idea of selling Garnacho is another step in the wrong direction imo.

Removing his 15-20 G/A from this team? scoring is such a rarity as is, even if you add 1 or 2 attackers in the summer.

While the numbers are true, the majority of those numbers are achieved in lower competitions if you compare to Cunha. Garnacho has 5+1 in the league vs Cunha’s 14+4. Same pattern last year.

If money is the problem, I believe we want a guy who fits the system rather than Garnacho to start week in and week out. Garnacho would maybe thrive more as a sub - but would he be content in that role permanently or adapt enough for Dorgu’s role? I doubt it.

Garnacho’s not gonna take Cunha or Bruno’s place. 50m for a decent bench option? I’d take it - even at 40. Which would also be a great buy for a club like Napoli that can probably develop him.

Since the issue is probably about money and playing time, it’s clear to me that we need to ship him, if we want Cunha who plays in a mature way, adds physicality, scores more and makes his team play better. Garnacho becomes a luxury sub that is worth more as a transfer.

 

[AndySmith1990]

He's a mediocre footballer and frustratingly selfish. If he were at another club no one would want us to sign him. Selling him would be pure profit and help us massively in improving the team, and especially improving our abysmal attack, of which Gernacho is a part of