[VP89]

As I said, he’s been playing deeper since our resources in CM were depleted through injury. But nonetheless, he’s still a key attacker who gets on the end of chances as we saw over the weekend.

And four non penalty goals in the league is infinitely more than the zero Garnacho has in the PL since Amorim joined, which is pretty relevant to my original point that discounting Bruno as an attacking force in order to claim that Garnacho is our only threat doesn’t make any sense when the former has proved himself to be a far bigger threat than the latter despite the deeper role he has been playing very recently.

Garnacho has definitely had some big chances and there may be an argument that he's been on the end of more per 90.

Ultimately Bruno is playing deeper for the most part and thats reflected with chances that he's on the end of, coupled with the fact that we suck creatively too of course. It's hard to argue against a narrative that he's on the end of less chances when he's taking less shots on goal per 90 anyway.

Anwyay he ideally should be in a 10 but I don't think we'll see that until next season when we can buy a midfielder with quick legs next to Ugarte

 

[Zumbi]

Garnacho has definitely had some big chances and there may be an argument that he's been on the end of more per 90.

Ultimately Bruno is playing deeper for the most part and thats reflected with chances that he's on the end of, coupled with the fact that we suck creatively too of course. It's hard to argue against a narrative that he's on the end of less chances when he's taking less shots on goal per 90 anyway.

Anwyay he ideally should be in a 10 but I don't think we'll see that until next season when we can buy a midfielder with quick legs next to Ugarte

Maybe. That doesn’t magically negate the fact that Bruno is still our biggest attacking threat.

In case you missed it, the original comment from bosnian_red that I took issue with was:

“Right now, there isn't another attacker who looks like they can create a chance, score a goal, or even get a chance let alone take it. Without him we provide 0.”

I found that a very odd thing to claim when at least on those first two metrics of creating and scoring, Bruno is clearly a bigger threat. It would be more accurate to say that without him, we provide 0.

 

[VP89]

Maybe. That doesn’t magically negate the fact that Bruno is still our biggest attacking threat.

In case you missed it, the original comment from bosnian_red that I took issue with was:

“Right now, there isn't another attacker who looks like they can create a chance, score a goal, or even get a chance let alone take it. Without him we provide 0.”

I found that a very odd thing to claim when at least on those first two metrics of creating and scoring, Bruno is clearly a bigger threat. It would be more accurate to say that without him, we provide 0.

Yeah if the reference was to Garnacho I agree, Bruno is a more creative and goal threat even if he's deeper.

 

[Zumbi]

Yeah if the reference was to Garnacho I agree, Bruno is a more creative and goal threat even if he's deeper.

Yeah that’s what he said referencing Garnacho, which irked me a little because Bruno’s contributions are sometimes ignored in attempts to justify the poor output from players who contribute nowhere near as much.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Not really. We are used to it.

 

[Olecurls99]

Sadly we need him for his pace atm but if somebody offers us 60m in the summer, then bite their hand off.

 

[Dans]

Sadly we need him for his pace atm but if somebody offers us 60m in the summer, then bite their hand off.

Agreed. He's so basic, but perversely is the only player really creating any chances atm.

 

[Redstain]

Sadly we need him for his pace atm but if somebody offers us 60m in the summer, then bite their hand off.

I think Garnacho like others will go down as a casualty to the managers system. He caused issues in the Fulham game because he was playing unhinged, he was running down the outside and on one occasion from what I remember came on the inside but couldn't get an effective shot off. The manager has publicly stated wanting Garnacho to essentially venture inside more and the reality is that it limits his capabilities as a player.

What the United board need to consider is if Amorim's management is actually worth the exodus of attacking players. There are too many rendered ineffective in his system including Bruno. Bruno is not impacting games because he's playing in the 10, he's impacting games because of his inclusion in the team. But when you assess the attacking intent and threat, Bruno should not be a wide 10 in any sense. We pulverised Erik for putting him wide and Amorim is selectively doing the same thing given the constraints of the 3-4-3.

All in all, rather than having this damning judgement of the youth players, is Amorim's tenure even worth a squad reformation? I was behind a sale for Garnacho in January but given more time has passed and evidence to assess this manager with, I can't see it being any other narrative aside the club potentially selling Garnacho, Mainoo for a manager who will fall significantly short of any competitive objectives.

 

[Devil_forever]

Explains why he's trying to constantly shoot instead of playing the pass to someone in a much better scoring position.

 

[Olecurls99]

I think Garnacho like others will go down as a casualty to the managers system. He caused issues in the Fulham game because he was playing unhinged, he was running down the outside and on one occasion from what I remember came on the inside but couldn't get an effective shot off. The manager has publicly stated wanting Garnacho to essentially venture inside more and the reality is that it limits his capabilities as a player.

What the United board need to consider is if Amorim's management is actually worth the exodus of attacking players. There are too many rendered ineffective in his system including Bruno. Bruno is not impacting games because he's playing in the 10, he's impacting games because of his inclusion in the team. But when you assess the attacking intent and threat, Bruno should not be a wide 10 in any sense. We pulverised Erik for putting him wide and Amorim is selectively doing the same thing given the constraints of the 3-4-3.

All in all, rather than having this damning judgement of the youth players, is Amorim's tenure even worth a squad reformation? I was behind a sale for Garnacho in January but given more time has passed and evidence to assess this manager with, I can't see it being any other narrative aside the club potentially selling Garnacho, Mainoo for a manager who will fall significantly short of any competitive objectives.

There's not a formation around that will make Garnacho lift his head as he runs. He's an exciting but ultimately ineffective wing forward, a lot like the muscly Fulham winger.

 

[Zumbi]

I think Garnacho like others will go down as a casualty to the managers system. He caused issues in the Fulham game because he was playing unhinged, he was running down the outside and on one occasion from what I remember came on the inside but couldn't get an effective shot off. The manager has publicly stated wanting Garnacho to essentially venture inside more and the reality is that it limits his capabilities as a player.

What the United board need to consider is if Amorim's management is actually worth the exodus of attacking players. There are too many rendered ineffective in his system including Bruno. Bruno is not impacting games because he's playing in the 10, he's impacting games because of his inclusion in the team. But when you assess the attacking intent and threat, Bruno should not be a wide 10 in any sense. We pulverised Erik for putting him wide and Amorim is selectively doing the same thing given the constraints of the 3-4-3.

All in all, rather than having this damning judgement of the youth players, is Amorim's tenure even worth a squad reformation? I was behind a sale for Garnacho in January but given more time has passed and evidence to assess this manager with, I can't see it being any other narrative aside the club potentially selling Garnacho, Mainoo for a manager who will fall significantly short of any competitive objectives.

Our attacking players don’t create or score goals, so I’d say an exodus is absolutely essential. The concern I’d have is if we don’t replace then with players who can pass and score.

We desperately need a squad reformation whether Amorim is in charge or not. The main question for me is will we target the right profile of players under Amorim, and given the fact that he’s highlighted the need for pace and physicality to compete in the PL, I’m more confident in his ability to do so than ETH’s.

 

[Cassidy]

I think Garnacho like others will go down as a casualty to the managers system. He caused issues in the Fulham game because he was playing unhinged, he was running down the outside and on one occasion from what I remember came on the inside but couldn't get an effective shot off. The manager has publicly stated wanting Garnacho to essentially venture inside more and the reality is that it limits his capabilities as a player.

What the United board need to consider is if Amorim's management is actually worth the exodus of attacking players. There are too many rendered ineffective in his system including Bruno. Bruno is not impacting games because he's playing in the 10, he's impacting games because of his inclusion in the team. But when you assess the attacking intent and threat, Bruno should not be a wide 10 in any sense. We pulverised Erik for putting him wide and Amorim is selectively doing the same thing given the constraints of the 3-4-3.

All in all, rather than having this damning judgement of the youth players, is Amorim's tenure even worth a squad reformation? I was behind a sale for Garnacho in January but given more time has passed and evidence to assess this manager with, I can't see it being any other narrative aside the club potentially selling Garnacho, Mainoo for a manager who will fall significantly short of any competitive objectives.

Were these attacking players scoring or creating goals before Amorims arrival? Have United been one of the worst attacking sides in the PL for the past 2/3 years?
Amorim aside the exodus of the attacking players we currently have was always necessary

 

[crossy1686]

Sadly we need him for his pace atm but if somebody offers us 60m in the summer, then bite their hand off.

I think we desperately need that money and I've not seen anything from his performances that would suggest he's anywhere near worth that valuation. Let's hope that someone out there is desperate for a winger that doesn't run back, and cuts inside and smashes shots into the shins of defenders before falling over.

 

[RuudTom83]

Just another badly managed situation by the club...if you are one of the biggest clubs in the world then the likes of Garnacho should not be expected to carry the weight of G/A for your team.

The fact we are relying upon him so much is the clubs fault not his.

 

[Brazilian_Ronaldo_9]

Just another badly managed situation by the club...if you are one of the biggest clubs in the world then the likes of Garnacho should not be expected to carry the weight of G/A for your team.

The fact we are relying upon him so much is the clubs fault not his.

True, we loaned Sancho, Rashford and Antony out with no replacements. Amad being injured means Garnacho is the only player with pace.

We did bring in Dorgu who is quick and strong. But the club has written the season off whether we couldn’t afford to buy in Jan or they’re waiting for the summer.

 

[G97]

True, we loaned Sancho, Rashford and Antony out with no replacements. Amad being injured means Garnacho is the only player with pace.

We did bring in Dorgu who is quick and strong. But the club has written the season off whether we couldn’t afford to buy in Jan or they’re waiting for the summer.

I get your points. But Sancho and Rashford are poison so I can see why getting them out of the door was seen as a priority over who their actual replacements were. Sounds counterproductive but I don’t think it is.
Antony is just crap and this summer is the first window where we could have sold him (with his value drop/ffp) so January loan was a shop window move to get as high a fee as possible.
Garnacho being our only outlet isn’t because of these 3 players leaving, it’s the events leading up to it, e.g giving Marcus a new deal after a 5 month purple patch, ever even signing Sancho with his frequently poor attitude issues and panic buying Antony in late August for an inflated price.

Like you say, the clubs written off the season so deadwood and bad attitudes can be kicked out. Which in the long run is better.

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

I think we desperately need that money and I've not seen anything from his performances that would suggest he's anywhere near worth that valuation. Let's hope that someone out there is desperate for a winger that doesn't run back, and cuts inside and smashes shots into the shins of defenders before falling over.

Is it just me who thinks his work rate has been really impressive since he was bought back in to the first team?

 

[Rolaholic]

Too big for his boots it seems

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

Too big for his boots it seems

Ignored that fan like Dorgu on the overlap

 

[Rolaholic]

Ignored that fan like Dorgu on the overlap

 

[Brazilian_Ronaldo_9]

I get your points. But Sancho and Rashford are poison so I can see why getting them out of the door was seen as a priority over who their actual replacements were. Sounds counterproductive but I don’t think it is.
Antony is just crap and this summer is the first window where we could have sold him (with his value drop/ffp) so January loan was a shop window move to get as high a fee as possible.
Garnacho being our only outlet isn’t because of these 3 players leaving, it’s the events leading up to it, e.g giving Marcus a new deal after a 5 month purple patch, ever even signing Sancho with his frequently poor attitude issues and panic buying Antony in late August for an inflated price.

Like you say, the clubs written off the season so deadwood and bad attitudes can be kicked out. Which in the long run is better.

Nothing new there, United mismanagement. This is the same club that bought Falcao on loan when we had RVP and Rooney. We’ve made many mistakes and now paying for it.

 

[G97]

Nothing new there, United mismanagement. This is the same club that bought Falcao on loan when we had RVP and Rooney. We’ve made many mistakes and now paying for it.

Exactly mate. 12 years of horrendous decisions have brought us to this point. We deserve to be where we are. Garnacho being our only winger is nothing to do with letting Sancho and Rashford leave.

 

[Red00012]

There's not a formation around that will make Garnacho lift his head as he runs. He's an exciting but ultimately ineffective wing forward, a lot like the muscly Fulham winger.

There was a poster on here who said we should attempt to sign him in the summer

 

[spwd]

Just another badly managed situation by the club...if you are one of the biggest clubs in the world then the likes of Garnacho should not be expected to carry the weight of G/A for your team.

The fact we are relying upon him so much is the clubs fault not his.

Very true.

 

[sleepehead]

Our attacking players don’t create or score goals, so I’d say an exodus is absolutely essential. The concern I’d have is if we don’t replace then with players who can pass and score.

We desperately need a squad reformation whether Amorim is in charge or not. The main question for me is will we target the right profile of players under Amorim, and given the fact that he’s highlighted the need for pace and physicality to compete in the PL, I’m more confident in his ability to do so than ETH’s.

But Garnacho hasn't even hit his physical peak. I don't necessarily believe that Garnacho is going to be a world beater, but he's still really young, he won't even hit his physical peak until he's closer to 24 so I don't think he's really the problem here. We're just over relying on a youth player to bail us out every week. I'm not an Amorim believer I'll be honest, he's the one in charge to creating a system when we attack and I am still struggling to see a difference between what he offers vs ETH. It looks oddly similar, try to play out the back, but we don't have the midfield or the wings to do it. Ultimately hoof the ball in hopes our strikers can hold onto the ball, get pinched trying to make a play and then our defense running back on the back heel and letting the opposing midfield just walk in the ball. Rinse and repeat

 

[Cloud7]

Ignored that fan like Dorgu on the overlap

 

[That_Bloke]

Ignored that fan like Dorgu on the overlap

 

[Revival2024]

But Garnacho hasn't even hit his physical peak. I don't necessarily believe that Garnacho is going to be a world beater, but he's still really young, he won't even hit his physical peak until he's closer to 24 so I don't think he's really the problem here. We're just over relying on a youth player to bail us out every week. I'm not an Amorim believer I'll be honest, he's the one in charge to creating a system when we attack and I am still struggling to see a difference between what he offers vs ETH. It looks oddly similar, try to play out the back, but we don't have the midfield or the wings to do it. Ultimately hoof the ball in hopes our strikers can hold onto the ball, get pinched trying to make a play and then our defense running back on the back heel and letting the opposing midfield just walk in the ball. Rinse and repeat

Garnacho's problem isn't physicality. His intelligence and decision making on the ball is the problem. Shoots when he should pass and vice versa. Struggles to link up with his forwards and fullbacks. He has been in the Premier League for a while now, there isn't much of an excuse.

 

[Hammondo]

Garnacho's problem isn't physicality. His intelligence and decision making on the ball is the problem. Shoots when he should pass and vice versa. Struggles to link up with his forwards and fullbacks. He has been in the Premier League for a while now, there isn't much of an excuse.

Technically he isn't strong either.

 

[didz]

Garnacho's determination to play as a wide left wing forward is stronger than Amorim's determination to play his gospel system. It's really quite impressive.

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

Quite impressive how fans cry when he doesn't find the overlapping Dorgu but when he does exactly that with Dalot people are silent like it never happened for the goal.

 

[The Mitcher]

Garnacho's determination to play as a wide left wing forward is stronger than Amorim's determination to play his gospel system. It's really quite impressive.

But that's what Garnacho is, and it's pretty clear that he's being allowed to.

 

[Keanes Magic Hat]

Whatever peoples opinion on how good he is for us long term, there is no doubt he has to start every game for us at the moment. We are so prrdicatble without him.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Quite impressive how fans cry when he doesn't find the overlapping Dorgu but when he does exactly that with Dalot people are silent like it never happened for the goal.

He did well but it was a very routine pass, where Dalot and did most of the work from the pick out to the finish. It's one out of numerous others that he has ignored or missed, which is the whole point. If a routine pass can potentially create a chance like that, why does he insist on not playing it or dribbling into crowds.

 

[jem]

Quite impressive how fans cry when he doesn't find the overlapping Dorgu but when he does exactly that with Dalot people are silent like it never happened for the goal.

Except for the fact that people weren’t silent and acknowledged the important role he played in that goal

 

[Zumbi]

Quite impressive how fans cry when he doesn't find the overlapping Dorgu but when he does exactly that with Dalot people are silent like it never happened for the goal.

Our standards used to be quite a bit higher than “he successfully used an overlap once”.

 

[Waynne]

Ignored that fan like Dorgu on the overlap

Christ

 

[bgoodall]

Just another badly managed situation by the club...if you are one of the biggest clubs in the world then the likes of Garnacho should not be expected to carry the weight of G/A for your team.

The fact we are relying upon him so much is the clubs fault not his.

Stop making sense, our fans need a scapegoat so that they can convince themselves that a replacement can easily flourish in his place as 1) the system will be perfectly suited for them and 2) they wont need anytime at all to adjust to the PL. Having any attacking options beyond this mythical player is pointless apparently.

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

Our standards used to be quite a bit higher than “he successfully used an overlap once”.

Yes but we used to have more patience than Dorgu playing only 2 games so that Garnacho builds a connection with him.

 

[Zumbi]

Yes but we used to have more patience than Dorgu playing only 2 games so that Garnacho builds a connection with him.

Ah yes, Garnacho’s lack of connection with Dorgu is what caused him to not use the overlap effectively all season. Makes perfect sense.