[Zumbi]

Tbh that Sunderland loan was huge for Amad. Being given the responsibility and the trust from the manager. Changed his game for the better too.

Amad comes across as being much more matured in his game, compared to Garna. I love both of them though, Garna is going through a really poor patch, confidence is a very important thing, especially for attacking/flair players.

Him and Hojlund both need to be impact players off the bench, not starters for us, given how much pressure is there on their respective roles.

I agree entirely, I just don’t think that this is because of experience. I think he’s just a better, smarter player with more useful attributes.

 

[Xeque_279]

I agree entirely, I just don’t think that this is because of experience. I think he’s just a better, smarter player with more useful attributes.

True. Both are still very young though and you never know where a players development can take them.

 

[Marwood]

Garnacho is quite literally the least of our problems.

Scoring goals is our biggest problem and he's missed more opportunities than anyone.

So I don't think we can say he's the least of our problems.

In fact I'd say he has more than anyone the capacity to turn our season around. He's the one who gets the chances, if he can start putting a few away, nothing else will have a greater impact.

 

[DannyCAFC]

I still think United need to consider selling him in the summer simply because it is evident they need new players and he is one of the few in the squad they can get rid of to fund 2-3 new signings.

Talented player and his finishing, vision and decision-making may improve and under normal circumstances you would want to stick by him and give him time, but United don't have that luxury in their current position.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I'd be fine with selling him for the right price but I do wish people would stop talking about the homegrown psr loophole the way they are.

Some make it sound like we just treble our money as some sort of bonus.

Selling him for 60m and then spending the proffered 180m just lumbers our club with an additional 120m in debt. It may be necessary but it certainly has it's downsides.

 

[Cassidy]

I tried to figure this one out but it’s really not adding up.

Garnacho’s made 123 senior appearances for Utd (i’m counting PL, Europe and domestic cups here).

Amad has only made 77 senior appearances in the top flight. This includes the PL, Europe and domestic cups for Utd, plus his games for Rangers and Atalanta. If i’m being generous I could include the 37 games for Sunderland in the championship but that still only brings it up to 114 senior appearances.

So how is Amad is 3/4 years ahead of Garnacho in his development? How is he ““far more experienced”?

OK, he’s two years older, but it’s actually Garnacho who has played more senior matches, with more of them being at a higher level.

Number of appearances vs number of years in senior football is what you are missing. Amad has been around first team football for a lot longer and has also had at least one season with full trust of the manager as a genuine starter, I don't think Garnacho has even had that yet.
Its opinions, but at the end of the day Garnacho is still quite new to senior football, you might want to have a look at what Arsenal fans were saying about Saka in year 2/3

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

Scoring goals is our biggest problem and he's missed more opportunities than anyone.

So I don't think we can say he's the least of our problems.

In fact I'd say he has more than anyone the capacity to turn our season around. He's the one who gets the chances, if he can start putting a few away, nothing else will have a greater impact.

To be honest Garnacho gets the chance because his own amazing movement ability to beat the defenders and find space.

Amad creates his own chances by taking players on with his silky dribbling, Garnacho gets the chance by his amazing movement that beats the defenders back line.

 

[Olecurls99]

Amad comes across as being much more matured in his game, compared to Garna.

It's far more about technical ability than it is about maturity. Garnacho can't protect the ball because his technique is poor. Low confidence doesn't help but he has never been near as technically proficient as Amad.

 

[Olecurls99]

I'd be fine with selling him for the right price but I do wish people would stop talking about the homegrown psr loophole the way they are.

Some make it sound like we just treble our money as some sort of bonus.

Selling him for 60m and then spending the proffered 180m just lumbers our club with an additional 120m in debt. It may be necessary but it certainly has it's downsides.

Ha ha yeah. It's not free money

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

It's far more about technical ability than it is about maturity. Garnacho can't protect the ball because his technique is poor. Low confidence doesn't help but he has never been near as technically proficient as Amad.

I remember Gordon being technically shit aswell especially at Everton and early Newcastle but has improved alot in recent seasons at Newcastle.

Probably a mixture of experience and playing with better players.

Gordon is turning 24 this month.

Anyway, it's time he leaves because at 20 years old he isnt getting any backing of the fans and whilst he is good enough for clubs like Chelsea & Napoli - he isn't good enough for a team in England just above the relegation zone.

 

[DannyCAFC]

It's far more about technical ability than it is about maturity. Garnacho can't protect the ball because his technique is poor. Low confidence doesn't help but he has never been near as technically proficient as Amad.

I would say maturity is the right word to be honest - Amad seems to understand how to play to tempo a lot more and looks a lot more composed and assured as a result.

Garnacho is highly erratic and looks like he's trying to do everything at max intensity. I think it's why his decision-making and vision is so bad because he's trying to do everything at a million miles an hour, and doesn't seem to either spot or consider his variety of options at any given moment.

Technically I don't think he looks deficient at all, certainly at his best moments he's scored some fabulous goals - but again I think the fact he doesn't ever slow things down would go someway to explaining why there is no consistency to his game, and why he can curl in a beautiful 25 yarder but then lash a chance around the penalty spot into row Z. An ability to slow things down and play with more composure once he's in the final third would serve him well in terms of his end product IMO.

 

[Olecurls99]

I would say maturity is the right word to be honest - Amad seems to understand how to play to tempo a lot more and looks a lot more composed and assured as a result.

Garnacho is highly erratic and looks like he's trying to do everything at max intensity. I think it's why his decision-making and vision is so bad because he's trying to do everything at a million miles an hour, and doesn't seem to either spot or consider his variety of options at any given moment.

Technically I don't think he looks deficient at all, certainly at his best moments he's scored some fabulous goals - but again I think the fact he doesn't ever slow things down would go someway to explaining why there is no consistency to his game, and why he can curl in a beautiful 25 yarder but then lash a chance around the penalty spot into row Z.

I'm probably to blame for any confusion here. I'm almost solely talking about his ball keeping ability when I talk technique. The ability to keep the ball under pressure.

When I was growing up that was what was meant by technique. Passing was a part of it but again that came back to your relationship with the ball and the idea of keeping the ball on your own or with your teammates.

Shooting was a separate attribute altogether and not nearly as prized as the ball keeping technical skill. Barca as far as I'm concerned were the kings of technique. They might not have great shooters but who needs it when you can walk the ball in with your 'technical ability'.

I prize 'technical' players above all else and in my view of the word Amad is far far superior to Garnacho.

 

[Zumbi]

Number of appearances vs number of years in senior football is what you are missing. Amad has been around first team football for a lot longer and has also had at least one season with full trust of the manager as a genuine starter, I don't think Garnacho has even had that yet.
Its opinions, but at the end of the day Garnacho is still quite new to senior football, you might want to have a look at what Arsenal fans were saying about Saka in year 2/3

Again, this just doesn’t stack up against the facts. It’s actually the opposite. Garnacho made 50 appearances for Utd last season and was a fairly regular starter. The only time Amad’s got close to a run of that many games in one season was for Sunderland in the championship, making 42 appearances. Sure, he made his debut earlier and so had had more training sessions, but it’s actually been a far less settled and more stop/start path.

So again, I’m not sure how fewer matches at a lower level makes him far more experienced.

Looking at how other players developed is less relevant to me than actually looking at Garnacho’s attributes and skills in the 120+ appearances he’s already made for us. Because for every Saka I could name ten other promising young players who never made that sort of progress.

I guess my main issue is that he epitomizes the issues our whole attack has - selfish, disjointed, no guile or clever use of space, poor passing, poor finishing. I’m sure he’ll improve, but is he the sort of player to help take our attack to the next level? I struggle to see it.

 

[Cassidy]

Again, this just doesn’t stack up against the facts. It’s actually the opposite. Garnacho made 50 appearances for Utd last season and was a fairly regular starter. The only time Amad’s got close to a run of that many games in one season was for Sunderland in the championship, making 42 appearances. Sure, he made his debut earlier and so had had more training sessions, but it’s actually been a far less settled and more stop/start path.

So again, I’m not sure how fewer matches at a lower level makes him far more experienced.

Looking at how other players developed is less relevant to me than actually looking at Garnacho’s attributes and skills in the 120+ appearances he’s already made for us. Because for every Saka I could name ten other promising young players who never made that sort of progress.

I guess my main issue is that he epitomizes the issues our whole attack has - selfish, disjointed, no guile or clever use of space, poor passing, poor finishing. I’m sure he’ll improve, but is he the sort of player to help take our attack to the next level? I struggle to see it.

We differ in valuing training and working in a first-team environment, irrespective of level.

 

[Zumbi]

We differ in valuing training and working in a first-team environment, irrespective of level.

It’s important for sure, I just don’t think it equates to making him 3/4 years ahead. It’s much finer margins than that when it comes to their respective development paths IMO. I think the bigger disparity is in talent and attitude.

 

[Cassidy]

It’s important for sure, I just don’t think it equates to making him 3/4 years ahead. It’s much finer margins than that when it comes to their respective development paths IMO. I think the bigger disparity is in talent and attitude.

Time will tell, I don't agree. I think time in senior football vs u21 is incredibly important
Also, not everyone's development path is linear; I think there are some massive parts of Garnachos game that are being undervalued, especially his first touch and his movement.
We have even see people start questioning his shooting technique etc, as if the previous seasons did not happen
He is obviously struggling this season and is not used to starting games and being strong in performance for 90 minutes, that will come

 

[Cassidy]

Scoring goals is our biggest problem and he's missed more opportunities than anyone.

So I don't think we can say he's the least of our problems.

In fact I'd say he has more than anyone the capacity to turn our season around. He's the one who gets the chances, if he can start putting a few away, nothing else will have a greater impact.

He also gets and creates more than most... so you can literaly say he is the least of our problems. You want to be looking at the 2 CFs if you are wondering about goals

 

[G97]

I remember Gordon being technically shit aswell especially at Everton and early Newcastle but has improved alot in recent seasons at Newcastle.

Probably a mixture of experience and playing with better players.

Gordon is turning 24 this month.

Anyway, it's time he leaves because at 20 years old he isnt getting any backing of the fans and whilst he is good enough for clubs like Chelsea & Napoli - he isn't good enough for a team in England just above the relegation zone.

Gordon has something that Garnacho doesn’t, great pace. Players with his pace are always a threat and can mask other weaknesses. Apples to oranges there.

Also not sure why you think just because Chelsea and Napoli want him he’d be good enough for them?
Serie A is crap so he may do okay there tbf. Chelsea!??? They aren’t exactly known for being good at recruitment… certainly not with attackers! (it’s actually hilarious you used Chelsea to back your point).

The main point from the fans who are for selling him is that… yes we have players worse than Garnacho, but he needs to be sold while his stocks high so we can spend on players we need.
He’s also ultimately not as good as the fans who want to keep him think he is.
He’s 20, not 17 (like Yamal who’s far better already) with 125 games under his belt. Saka, Foden, TAA, Palmer were all better than him at his age.
If we keep him, by the time he’s 24 his value with have dropped and RedCaf will be full of people whinging about why we never sold him in 2025…
We have have had so much hindsight the last 12 years and we’ve been keeping players far too long in hope they’d come good.
INEOS now have to make decisions, predictions and planning like we haven’t done.

 

[Xeque_279]

It's far more about technical ability than it is about maturity. Garnacho can't protect the ball because his technique is poor. Low confidence doesn't help but he has never been near as technically proficient as Amad.

It's not just technical ability though, a lot of it is decision making. Amad seems to have a better knack of knowing when to take on players and when not to.

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

I don't get how Amad is used as the baseline of judging how young players should perform at Manchester United.

Its early on but Amad is looking like the best young player we have had post SAF and it wouldn't surprise me for it to continue for another 5 years.

Suddenly everyone is saying that all the young players we buy or have already in the club (first team to reserves) must be better than amad to succeed here which is absolutely nuts.

Might as well sell everyone in the reserve team or u21's because the chances that they are going to better than Amad is significantly slim, be that technical ability or intelligence or anything else.

Who are we realistically going to buy that's better than Amad? Who is that player who is as good as Amad or better than Amad on the left AM that we can buy?

Garnacho may not be good enough as a starter constantly in Amorim's strict system, but going in to next season which just 1 replacement player on the left is a big gamble.

All it needs is a injury to our shiny new LAM just like Amads first season and we are back to playing Zirkzee at LAM.

 

[DJ_21]

Should have more goals this season. Gets himself into scoring positions but let’s himself down with the finishes. The one last game against spurs was one of the worse I’ve seen. Should have been an easy goal.

 

[DJ_21]

Gordon has something that Garnacho doesn’t, great pace. Players with his pace are always a threat and can mask other weaknesses. Apples to oranges there.

Also not sure why you think just because Chelsea and Napoli want him he’d be good enough for them?
Serie A is crap so he may do okay there tbf. Chelsea!??? They aren’t exactly known for being good at recruitment… certainly not with attackers! (it’s actually hilarious you used Chelsea to back your point).

The main point from the fans who are for selling him is that… yes we have players worse than Garnacho, but he needs to be sold while his stocks high so we can spend on players we need.
He’s also ultimately not as good as the fans who want to keep him think he is.
He’s 20, not 17 (like Yamal who’s far better already) with 125 games under his belt. Saka, Foden, TAA, Palmer were all better than him at his age.
If we keep him, by the time he’s 24 his value with have dropped and RedCaf will be full of people whinging about why we never sold him in 2025…
We have have had so much hindsight the last 12 years and we’ve been keeping players far too long in hope they’d come good.
INEOS now have to make decisions, predictions and planning like we haven’t done.

Or by the time he’s 24 he’s worth double. If we sell him there’s a big chance he turns into a world beater and it’s a case of another one we let go to soon. So it’s really 50/50. Could go both ways. You could be right though… he may never turn out to be the player we all hope he could be. It’s a gamble at the end of the day. We do need the money though.

 

[Olecurls99]

It's not just technical ability though, a lot of it is decision making. Amad seems to have a better knack of knowing when to take on players and when not to.

Fair enough, I'll grant that Amad is smarter too but the basic technique test for a wide player is if they can keep the ball whilst receiving it with a full back up their arse.
Garnacho often is tackled or miscontrols it. Rashford was often poor at it too.
I rarely worry that Amad will lose possession in this situation.

 

[G97]

Or by the time he’s 24 he’s worth double. If we sell him there’s a big chance he turns into a world beater and it’s a case of another one we let go to soon. So it’s really 50/50. Could go both ways. You could be right though… he may never turn out to be the player we all hope he could be. It’s a gamble at the end of the day. We do need the money though.

I hear this ‘let go too soon’ thing all the time. Who did we let go to soon?
Wilson? Januzaj? Blackett? McTominay? Pereira? Cleverley? Tuanzebe? McNair? Chong?
Who are these young players we’ve let go too soon?
Other than Elanga, who’s on a good run of form (runs that happen often when players have his pace) I don’t know what young players we’ve let go of who we shouldn’t have.

 

[DJ_21]

I hear this ‘let go too soon’ thing all the time. Who did we let go to soon?
Wilson? Januzaj? Blackett? McTominay? Pereira? Cleverley? Tuanzebe? McNair? Chong?
Who are these young players we’ve let go too soon?
Other than Elanga, who’s on a good run of form (runs that happen often when players have his pace) I don’t know what young players we’ve let go of who we shouldn’t have.

Out of the players you’ve mentioned. Mctominay and Elanga are the ones that are shining now.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Or by the time he’s 24 he’s worth double. If we sell him there’s a big chance he turns into a world beater and it’s a case of another one we let go to soon. So it’s really 50/50. Could go both ways. You could be right though… he may never turn out to be the player we all hope he could be. It’s a gamble at the end of the day. We do need the money though.

Can we stop saying there's a "big chance" he becomes a world beater? Certainly not 50/50, otherwise you'd have 100's of "world class players" from all of these highly rated youngsters coming good.

There's a decent chance Garnacho becomes a good PL level starter. There's a pretty small but valid chance that he takes a big jump in how his game matures and he becomes a true top player. And then the most likely outcome for me is him being a solid rotational attacker for a top 4 side or a big foreign club where he's not relied upon but has good use for a team.

So the calculation from our own staff needs to be in terms of how much they value each of those types of outcomes, and what their own probablity and self scouting says. I just don't think it's 50/50 he becomes a world beater at all, hell only a player like Bellingham/Yamal would I have assigned that outcome from the past 5 years or so.

 

[DJ_21]

Can we stop saying there's a "big chance" he becomes a world beater? Certainly not 50/50, otherwise you'd have 100's of "world class players" from all of these highly rated youngsters coming good.

There's a decent chance Garnacho becomes a good PL level starter. There's a pretty small but valid chance that he takes a big jump in how his game matures and he becomes a true top player. And then the most likely outcome for me is him being a solid rotational attacker for a top 4 side or a big foreign club where he's not relied upon but has good use for a team.

So the calculation from our own staff needs to be in terms of how much they value each of those types of outcomes, and what their own probablity and self scouting says. I just don't think it's 50/50 he becomes a world beater at all, hell only a player like Bellingham/Yamal would I have assigned that outcome from the past 5 years or so.

The guys still only 20 years old. He’s the only one in our attack that looks like he wants to take someone on all the time. The only thing he lacks is end product and good decision making but that could be down to coaching. Put him in city under pep and he improves his numbers massively. I think he shines even at Napoli… I just think we’re a toxic club and we don’t have the right environment to let these youngsters develop. So I’d put my money on him being 100x better if he leaves us.

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

Garnacho should start on the RF.

This would make him take on his man less and focus on passing, getting behind the defence and hopefully finishing.