Adnan Januzaj

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Revan said:
He won't play for Croatia and Serbia. In fact if someone suggests that he will play for Serbia is either completely ignorant or stupid. Don't have any idea about Turkey but I don't think that there is anything on it.

Anyway, his parents are Albanians from Kosovo. The problem isn't that straightforward to choose between the place where he was born and the native country because Kosovo isn't accepted in FIFA. Despite more than 90% of Kosovans are Albanians, still there are a few differences between them and the fact that they have been seperated for more than a century means that the culture and many other things are very different. For example the first time I went to Albania was when I was 16-17 years old, a few years after the Kosovo war. For more than a half of century it was forbidden for Kosovans to go from Yugoslavia in Albania and vice versa. So there are a few differences which makes things even more difficult. Although the most of Kosovans choose to play for Albania there are a few cases where they ahve opted for different countries (Valon Behrami for example). In other cases the Albanian FA has been that much corrupted that have asked for money to certain players in order to play for them so naturally they chose other countries (Granit Xhaka being the best example). And in some bizarre cases they haven't even made an offer at all (surprisingly Xherdan Shaqiri never received an offer to play for Albania despite he was willing to do so). Many of them have declared that if Kosovo gets accepted in FIFA/UEFA, they will play for Kosovo. (Shaqiri for example celebrated UCL victory with a flag of Kosovo while Xhaka when asked to sing a song in National team, he chose to sign the Albanian anthem).

I think that if Kosovo was in FIFA it would have been an easy choice for Adnan, but as it is things are much more difficult. It is entirely possible that he hasn't ever been to Albania. We'll see what happens, but I would be okay with him choosing whatever nation he choose. Probably will boo him if Albania ever plays Belgium and he is on their shirt though.
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Good stuff, thanks
 
What if he doesn't make it? Then the agent loses out on his cut. He could join another club and then make that super move in a few years time if he is good enough and his agent will have made two cuts. The vast majority of agents these days look out for their interests as well the interests of the player, the players seems to trust them a lot more than they did in the past. He might look at the agent and think he got me my move to Man Utd in the first place so would he be looking to screw me over.

Obviously it is best for him to stay at Man Utd for now and hopefully his agent and the player will see that. Problem is Man Utd might not offer be willing to offer big money right now because it sets a bad precedent and you can't have that. Opens the door to other players dicking you around, you did the same to Rooney and made him stay so other players will think twice before trying that on. Who knows what will happen though, I'd be inclined to think he'll stay.
 
JazzG said:
His agent will make a lot more though by getting him a big money move abroad. Down to the club and manager to convince him to stay and that he will get games. He only needs to look at Pogba and Pique to see two guys who have moved and made good careers for themselves so the onus is on your lot to convince him otherwise.
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The only money the manager would make with a move is on the signing of a new contract, money that can also be made here if he signs a new contract. He is a free player in the summer, wherever he goes (I hope he stays ofc), there won't be any big money move abroad, it will be a free transfer.

Situation with Januzaj and Pogba and Pique is also totally different. Pogba and Pique both left because they felt they didn't get enough chances. Pogba said himself he wanted to play for us but he didn't had the patience to keep waiting until Fergie saw fit for it. He gave up after the blackburn game were Park and Rafael played in the midfield and wanted away since then. Adnan has been played quite often so far: played in pre-season, played vs Wigan, played vs palace, played vs West Brom and played vs Sunderland and the coach says he'll play alot more aswell. I don't think he could have wished for anymore (he was even shocked he got as much as he did) and I also don't think he'll play anymore at any other team. So those situations couldn't be anymore different.
 
JazzG said:
What if he doesn't make it? Then the agent loses out on his cut. He could join another club and then make that super move in a few years time if he is good enough and his agent will have made two cuts. The vast majority of agents these days look out for their interests as well the interests of the player, the players seems to trust them a lot more than they did in the past. He might look at the agent and think he got me my move to Man Utd in the first place so would he be looking to screw me over.

Obviously it is best for him to stay at Man Utd for now and hopefully his agent and the player will see that. Problem is Man Utd might not offer be willing to offer big money right now because it sets a bad precedent and you can't have that. Opens the door to other players dicking you around, you did the same to Rooney and made him stay so other players will think twice before trying that on. Who knows what will happen though, I'd be inclined to think he'll stay.
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feck the precedent. Be as good as Adnan, get a deal as good as Adnan. We have learnt our lesson from Pogba, this guy will stay.
 
Somebody mentioned whether Fergie would've played him and i have to say possibly not, he may played at OT but a debut away from home where we needed the 3 points is unlikely.

I recall one of the reason why Pogba left us was due to the fact Rafael and Park were both played ahead of him against Blackburn....so credit must be given to Moyes.
 
Revan said:
He won't play for Croatia and Serbia. In fact if someone suggests that he will play for Serbia is either completely ignorant or stupid. Don't have any idea about Turkey but I don't think that there is anything on it.

Anyway, his parents are Albanians from Kosovo. The problem isn't that straightforward to choose between the place where he was born and the native country because Kosovo isn't accepted in FIFA. Despite more than 90% of Kosovans are Albanians, still there are a few differences between them and the fact that they have been seperated for more than a century means that the culture and many other things are very different. For example the first time I went to Albania was when I was 16-17 years old, a few years after the Kosovo war. For more than a half of century it was forbidden for Kosovans to go from Yugoslavia in Albania and vice versa. So there are a few differences which makes things even more difficult. Although the most of Kosovans choose to play for Albania there are a few cases where they ahve opted for different countries (Valon Behrami for example). In other cases the Albanian FA has been that much corrupted that have asked for money to certain players in order to play for them so naturally they chose other countries (Granit Xhaka being the best example). And in some bizarre cases they haven't even made an offer at all (surprisingly Xherdan Shaqiri never received an offer to play for Albania despite he was willing to do so). Many of them have declared that if Kosovo gets accepted in FIFA/UEFA, they will play for Kosovo. (Shaqiri for example celebrated UCL victory with a flag of Kosovo while Xhaka when asked to sing a song in National team, he chose to sign the Albanian anthem).

I think that if Kosovo was in FIFA it would have been an easy choice for Adnan, but as it is things are much more difficult. It is entirely possible that he hasn't ever been to Albania. We'll see what happens, but I would be okay with him choosing whatever nation he choose. Probably will boo him if Albania ever plays Belgium and he is on their shirt though.
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I'd think it be the most natural thing if he played for Belgium. He was born there, he has had his childhood until the age of 16 there, he was educated there, he learned his football there in the youth of FC Brussels and Anderlecht. So seems only logic to me that he is more Belgian than Albanian.
 
ElmParkRed said:
Because of this I can understand Genius Me's trouble with identifying himself as English because he isn't "white" although the more appropriate term would be becuase he's not Anglo-Saxon.
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Im about as white as you get and was born and raised in Greater Manchester, and I'd never call myself English. I think its just a common trend among immigrants and their descendants to self-identify as British. I mean, England's not actually a country, its a national identity for Anglo-Saxons very vaguely tied to geography which doesn't make a huge amount of sense if you're 'new'. One's identity is something one struggles with a lot in the teens, and, like Adnan (who grew up in a comparably confused country), I think I would have considered declaring for my Father's country if I were any good at sport. I even have dual nationality, though these days I'm very comfortable being British.
 
Nate Dogg said:
Somebody mentioned whether Fergie would've played him and i have to say possibly not, he may played at OT but a debut away from home where we needed the 3 points is unlikely.

I recall one of the reason why Pogba left us was due to the fact Rafael and Park were both played ahead of him against Blackburn....so credit must be given to Moyes.
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Yea, SAF never gave youngsters a chance.
 
Until he puts pen to paper, I don't want to hear about these rumours. I'll only be happy when I see that pic of him signing a contract. These transfer windows have taught me a lot.
 
Apparently SSN is reporting that he's told the Belgian manager that he intends to stay at United :drool:
 
It was clear that Fergie was desperate to play Januzaj in his final game against West Brom (I think Adnan even got asked to warm up at one point). It would have gone down as one of those iconic moments which perfectly summed up the end of Fergie era while introducing the beginning of the Moyes one. It was only Lukaku's hattrick which stopped it from happening.
 
wr8_utd said:
Apparently SSN is reporting that he's told the Belgian manager that he intends to stay at United :drool:
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Not really true. Wilmots never mentioned Man Utd. The articles in the Belgian press just also mention a quote from 'his entourage' saying he wants to make it at United first before making a decision concerning international football. But that quote could just be the old quote from a few months ago. I'm not sure if we should read too much into this.
 
He's told the Belgium boss? He doesn't even play for Belgium. How does this joker know over Moyes? Sky also reported Pogba was set to sign with United back in January of that season. I'm not getting out the party poppers until I see one of those photographs of the signing player holding and a pen and smiling, like that that really uncomfortable Rooney one from 2010.
 
Mockney said:
I'm not saying you're racist, but clearly you've had enough people who are bully you with this idea that you've believed it. And as such, have essentially let them win. And to regurgitate it is still a bit of a slap in the face to any other non-whites who do consider themselves English, and with every right to.

England (or any other geographical region) is a place, not a cultural cosmic mindstate. A place you live/are born/brought up/pay taxes/work/learn stuff in. Aside from a few national pass times and Daily Mail crosswords heritage doesn't really mean anything. It's just some things other people who happened to have lived here too have done over the years with enough success to become culturally important.

At one point our heritage was completely different. It can, and will, change with every new set of people doing their own new set of things. Which in a few decades time, will ethnically be a very different set of people.
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The attributes of identity don't have to be eternal. We're born in a particular time and place - future change is psychologically irrelevant. Group identification is much more intangible than your simple materialism.

Take football. In a couple of decades everything about a club is altered, except the name and the colour of the shirt (even that can change). Yet fans have no difficulty maintaining their allegiance. They don't say, "It's not my club anymore because Cantona and Fergie are gone, or we no longer play at Highbury." Some invisible thread binds them to the club and takes all change in its stride. The thread of nationality is made of the same stuff.

Because your upbringing or character prevent you feeling such a pull, or acknowledging it, doesn't justify the dismissal of a universal human sentiment.
 
OnlyTwoDaSilvas said:
He's told the Belgium boss? He doesn't even play for Belgium. How does this joker know over Moyes? Sky also reported Pogba was set to sign with United back in January of that season. I'm not getting out the party poppers until I see one of those photographs of the signing player holding and a pen and smiling, like that that really uncomfortable Rooney one from 2010.
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He didn't. Just bad journalism again.
 
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NoArroJusBeta said:
I'd think it be the most natural thing if he played for Belgium. He was born there, he has had his childhood until the age of 16 there, he was educated there, he learned his football there in the youth of FC Brussels and Anderlecht. So seems only logic to me that he is more Belgian than Albanian.
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It depends on the culture and on the person to be fair. For example until the last few years, Albanians didn't marry with foreigners regardless if they have spent most of the times in a foreign country (or be borned there). Of course this mentality has started to change in the recent years, but still all Balkanians feels more proud for their heritage and are more linked to their relatives than most of the other people.

In Adnan's case, I don't know. As I said the situation is very complicated. Ultimately it is for him to decide, and hopefully he chooses by his heart not his head. I think that playing for International teams in most cases is more personal than playing for clubs. If he feels more Albanian he should choose Albania, otherwise it's all fine to choose Belgium. But choosing one over other because that's a better team, I think is a bit cnutish. For that, it would be completely wrong (IMO) if he let's say chooses England.

Suedesi said:
Armando Duka should be hanged from his balls.
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Yep, he's a twat of the highest order. Things would have been a lot better if Albanian FA would have had a less corrupted person in charge. And likely many players who now play for other International teams would have been there. Anyway, in Januzaj's case I think that they have been very correct, and when Adnan's family said that they don't want any more invitations cause Adnan should be concentrated in his club, Albanian FA said fine and we won't bother you anymore until you decide, while Belgium is irritating them.
 
Why haven't Albania called him up then?
 
Dante said:
It was clear that Fergie was desperate to play Januzaj in his final game against West Brom (I think Adnan even got asked to warm up at one point). It would have gone down as one of those iconic moments which perfectly summed up the end of Fergie era while introducing the beginning of the Moyes one. It was only Lukaku's hattrick which stopped it from happening.
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Without trying to criticise Fergie, obviously not 'desperate' enough. It is still over-cautiousness. This idea that we must be playing at home, with 20 mins to play, against Crystal Palace, leading 12-0, against 8-men before you can play a kid is now common I think. West Brom was a dead rubber, if Fergie really wanted to play Adnan he would have. Nothing was riding on it for either team, and even if there was - after all, you are showing you trust a kid after all, so trust him.

Also, Lukaku did not score his hat-trick in the first minute. Januzaj could have been brought on before, not to mention he could have played in any of the games after we won the title. I think there is certainly enough recent history to suggest that Fergie would not have put as much faith as Moyes has so far in Januzaj. In fact, recent history suggests he'd quite possibly be on loan.
 
Regarding England, doesn't the 5 years residency only count if it's prior to the player turning 18? Surely it's the same reason why Angel Rangel couldn't play for Wales? Rangel has lived in Wales for 5 years, but those 5 years have to be the player being educated before turning 18, so he wasn't allowed to be selected. Is there a loophole for Adnan that I'm missing?

I don't think he'd pick England anyway, and I don't think he should, unless he really does feel English, which I doubt.
 
Brwned said:
Why haven't Albania called him up then?
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They have talked with him (his father), but his father said 'nice, but at the moment we are concentarting only in his club and until Adnan becomes a regular player, we are not bothering to choose any nation to play for'. He said the same thing to Belgium but a few weeks ago he said that Belgium is irritating them by making countless offers, while Albanian have understood the situation and are more patient.

I don't have any idea where are the reports coming that he prefers to play for Albania. Haven't heard anything about that. Except on Fox Italia when for the second week in a row, the journo is saying that Januzaj is going to decide for Albania over Belgium. If that's completely bullshit (which I don't understand why someone would do that) or some Italian journos have some links with Albanian FA (Albanian manager is an Italian) I don't have any idea.
 
Dante said:
It was clear that Fergie was desperate to play Januzaj in his final game against West Brom (I think Adnan even got asked to warm up at one point). It would have gone down as one of those iconic moments which perfectly summed up the end of Fergie era while introducing the beginning of the Moyes one. It was only Lukaku's hattrick which stopped it from happening.
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I don't get all the praise DM has received for playing him. Understandable from the media, for whom he's just an 18 year old kid they know nothing about, but from fans who watched him during the summer tour and saw what a great talent he is, it's a bit silly to talk about Moyes being brave enough to take a chance on a young player. I thought he could have played him earlier.

Fergie deserves more credit. He recognised Adnan's talent and fast-tracked him, even instructing a reluctant Joyce to promote him to the reserves early last year. At this stage though, whoever is responsible, the important thing is that he's in the team, and we don't let him go.
 
I think both deserve credit. Sir Alex fast tracked him but Moyes was under no obligation to play him. I think if Sir Alex was here, he wouldn't have featured realistically. If Adnan keeps performing, I think he might become a realistic option most weeks. The fact is, we didn't bring through THAT many kids at 18, and play them for 90 mins for the first team in league games. It tended to be all about the cups or sub appearances

It makes absolute sense for Moyes to do what he has done but there was a risk.
 
Revan said:
Yep, he's a twat of the highest order. Things would have been a lot better if Albanian FA would have had a less corrupted person in charge. And likely many players who now play for other International teams would have been there. Anyway, in Januzaj's case I think that they have been very correct, and when Adnan's family said that they don't want any more invitations cause Adnan should be concentrated in his club, Albanian FA said fine and we won't bother you anymore until you decide, while Belgium is irritating them.
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The 'Belgium is irritating him' part in your post to me seems a lot like wishful thinking from your part because you hope he chooses Albania/Kosovo, which I obviously understand and relate to considering I'm Belgian and I hope he'll want to play for us. :) The Belgian manager is basically just letting Januzaj know personally that he's part of his plans if he wants to be. One less reason not to choose Belgium, you see. If he would persist in 'letting Januzaj know' constantly in the near future, it could become irritating yes, but I doubt that will happen. So far Wilmots has been able to convince the right players who had similar choices because of heritage to choose for Belgium (Chadli and Bakkali), so I'm confident he will handle it correctly again with Adnan, and will give him the space to make his choice without putting too much pressure on him.

Dante said:
He only lived in Belgium during his early childhood and then moved to the UK by his mid-teens. I'd assume that, like most immigrants, his parents spoke their mother-tongue at home and that since his move to Manchester, the culture created by his Mum and Dad at his family house has harked back more to Albania than the country they only lived in for a few years. The fact he's never answered the call for Belgium also suggests he doesn't have a great affinity for that country. I think that there generally tends to be a much stronger sense of historic nationalism amongst people from the Balkans than most other places.

If I had to guess, I'd say he'll either pick Albania (if he listens to his Dad) or England (if doesn't care about the politics of international football, but fancies a higher profile and more opportunities to play in tournaments).
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He was borned and raised in Belgium until he was 16, so not exactly early childhood. 16 out of his 18 years he has spent in Belgium, so I wouldn't call that just a few years. He's only been in England since 2011 so chances of him choosing England seem quite slim. I certainly wouldn't bet on him picking England. It reminds me of France trying to get Eden Hazard to play for them even though he only played there for a couple of years in Lille's youth setup and is Belgian in every other way. For Adnan it'll be either Albania or Belgium. Revan's hoping the former, I'm hoping the latter. ;) But most of all, I want him to stay at United regardless of who he picks. So hopefully he'll sign a new deal soon.
 
Will Absolute said:
The attributes of identity don't have to be eternal. We're born in a particular time and place - future change is psychologically irrelevant. Group identification is much more intangible than your simple materialism.

Take football. In a couple of decades everything about a club is altered, except the name and the colour of the shirt (even that can change). Yet fans have no difficulty maintaining their allegiance. They don't say, "It's not my club anymore because Cantona and Fergie are gone, or we no longer play at Highbury." Some invisible thread binds them to the club and takes all change in its stride. The thread of nationality is made of the same stuff.

Because your upbringing or character prevent you feeling such a pull, or acknowledging it, doesn't justify the dismissal of a universal human sentiment.
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I'm not demanding his unadulterated Englishness. I'm just challenging the notion of..

Genius Me! said:
How can I be English when I'm not white?
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Cristiano_RAFC said:
The 'Belgium is irritating him' part in your post to me seems a lot like wishful thinking from your part because you hope he chooses Albania/Kosovo, which I obviously understand and relate to considering I'm Belgian and I hope he'll want to play for us. :) The Belgian manager is basically just letting Januzaj know personally that he's part of his plans if he wants to be. One less reason not to choose Belgium, you see. If he would persist in 'letting Januzaj know' constantly in the near future, it could become irritating yes, but I doubt that will happen. So far Wilmots has been able to convince the right players who had similar choices because of heritage to choose for Belgium (Chadli and Bakkali), so I'm confident he will handle it correctly again with Adnan, and will give him the space to make his choice without putting too much pressure on him.
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I read something that his father said that despite them being clear that they want to keep options open for now, the Belgium FA is making invitations to them, which they are finding irritating. On the other side, Albanian have been less persistent (who knows if it will be a good or a bad thing) after they said that they aren't choosing anything for now. Kosovo isn't (and shouldn't be) an option at the moment cause we aren't in FIFA yet. Things can change when we'll become part of it (if that ever happens) and he would be able to change the international team in that case.

If he chooses Belgium, I think he should do it now, cause it could mean he will be in Brazil next season. On the other side, he can wait for Albania as much as he wants cause we aren't going in Brazil.
 
Mockney said:
I'm not demanding his unadulterated Englishness. I'm just challenging the notion of..

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I was talking about my ethnicity background, I wouldn't put English on those ethnicity surveys.
 
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