I'm not sure any club will buy him even 20m, with his 150k/wk wages.
Aaron Wan-Bissaka | The Ornacle speaks: It is done.
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I'm not sure any club will buy him even 20m, with his 150k/wk wages.
Its simple sure, but it makes sense. Buy a young English, PL proven player will almost certainly get your money back. Liverpool even made money on Solanke.
I believe so yes.
There's no way we'd get 40m for him.
We never know if he's a few games off being injured or in poor form for 3-4months again
I was thinking more like 60M.
Mind you I tend to lower prices if my eBay selling record is anything out go by.
Wan-Bissaka a defensive fullback, Smalling a bad passer, James best quality appears to be pace on the counter, Rashford struggles against defences dropping deep (normal for his age as a 9) and Martial seems clueless when not carrying the ball on the break, we seem like a good bet to struggle against teams who will sit 9 men behind the ball, leave a forward up and make us break them down.
We should have the athleticism to defend and counter alright, but the skill and nous to break teams down, I don't see our team having pluses there apart from Pogba obviously and then probably Mata as a bench option and Lindelof and Shaw being decent users of the ball deserve some optimism despite lacking in set piece danger (Lindelof) and consistent crossing (Shaw) you'd like from their positions.
Basically, I'm saying Burnley, Wolves, Newcastle (if Rafa stays) and teams like that will fancy themselves to keep things tight, mark Pogba out of the game and get a draw when they come to Old Trafford, and they should.
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I think you are seriously underestimating how good AWB can become. We are talking about a fullback who is quick enough to match Salah and Mane. He is one of the best tacklers in the P.L despite being 21 years old and have next to no experience. He has been playing for a team that has been ravaged by injuries and fighting madly to avoid relegation. They haven't got a single striker who can score goals - and in many matches they have played without strikers. And yet it's used against him that he doesn't attack a lot and has few assists. In my opinion - playing for a team like that and get 4 assists isn't a total disaster.
Still you have decided that he is Limited and far inferior to our rivals in the same position ? Ehm..inferior to whom ? Kieran Trippier ? Azpiliecueta (if you had said 2 Seasons ago I might have agreed with you), Hector Bellerin ? Inferior to Trent A.Arnold - sure. But so has every other fullback in the division been. And he is better defensively than TAA.
So what is value for money in your opinion ? Sure maybe Cancelo would have been a better choice - but Meunier who turns 28 in september - is that really something to build a new team against ? Let's say the sum we are paying is £43-44 million + maybe £7-8 million based on clauses - is that really so bad. It's not like there is a single established player available for under £30 million these days.
In my opinion it's really good value for money to sign a player like AWB for £50 million. Even if he flops (which I seriously doubt) - we will get most of our money back in 2-3 years anyway.
I think you are seriously underestimating how good AWB can become. We are talking about a fullback who is quick enough to match Salah and Mane. He is one of the best tacklers in the P.L despite being 21 years old and have next to no experience. He has been playing for a team that has been ravaged by injuries and fighting madly to avoid relegation. They haven't got a single striker who can score goals - and in many matches they have played without strikers. And yet it's used against him that he doesn't attack a lot and has few assists. In my opinion - playing for a team like that and get 4 assists isn't a total disaster.
Still you have decided that he is Limited and far inferior to our rivals in the same position ? Ehm..inferior to whom ? Kieran Trippier ? Azpiliecueta (if you had said 2 Seasons ago I might have agreed with you), Hector Bellerin ? Inferior to Trent A.Arnold - sure. But so has every other fullback in the division been. And he is better defensively than TAA.
So what is value for money in your opinion ? Sure maybe Cancelo would have been a better choice - but Meunier who turns 28 in september - is that really something to build a new team against ? Let's say the sum we are paying is £43-44 million + maybe £7-8 million based on clauses - is that really so bad. It's not like there is a single established player available for under £30 million these days.
In my opinion it's really good value for money to sign a player like AWB for £50 million. Even if he flops (which I seriously doubt) - we will get most of our money back in 2-3 years anyway.
Appreciate your clarification and now I understand.
Why do people act like a 21 year old can’t get better at something?
Walker was also 27(?) while AWB is 21. Also important to note that Walker had the reputation for being a speedster and average footballer who hardly excelled at anything apart from his athleticism. AWB at 21 is s much bigger talent and already one of the top2 RBs in the league.
This is a great point. I got much better at drinking around age 24.
Except he hasn’t. He was older though and we would probably get 5 more years of AWB if he comes.
I agree, except for your last sentence. If he flops, we will be lucky to sell him for half the price we paid for him. If he flops, he will have been a one season wonder on high wages (for anyone outside the top 6).
That’s not to say we shouldn’t buy him - but we would take a seriously bit hit on him if he fails.
You’ll get worse at 34. Promise.
Woodward is doing what he is told by the Glazers and nothing else. Drag it out and by the time it is sorted it will be too late to spend any more money, and just pay out the rest in dividends to the 5 Glazer families. That is my opinion.
That is a fair opinion and I respect that. I see that he has a few very good «extreme» qualities. He also seems like a good guy. A down to earth professional. I love that. And hopefully he will develop.
What I dont like is that I think his decision making on the ball is poor. Decision making is really what football is all about. If you always make the right choice with and without the ball, that will take you fare. I also think he takes too little risk and tends to look clumpsy on the ball.
Many people use statistics in his favour, but I dont think tackles and interceptions is that important. A player that play for a team that has low possession numbers will probably make more tackles and interceptions.
And if you look further, some of his numbers is quite poor.
While you argue 3 assist aint bad (he did not have 4);
- AWB had 14 key passes. PVA, from their left back, had 38 key passes. Almost three times more.
- AWB had an expected assist of 2,29, PVA had 4,72.
Its the same with shots and chances;
- AWB had an expected goal of 0,37 this season. PVA had 2,81.
- AWB made 0,26 shots per 90 min. PVA made 1,26.
Which supports my understanding that he is not good at spotting opportunities, neither at creating or getting to chances. While PVA is good going forward, he is not exactly «Man Utd-good». But he is still a lot better than AWB at Palace.
Furthermore, his low attacking contribution imply low risk, his passing completion is poor compared to his team mates;
- 73 % completion rate compared to 79,8 % for the more attacking PVA (who plays more of his passes higher up the pitch and with more risk in general).
- The low risk is also supported by the fact that approx 58 % of his passes is backwards. (PVA is at 46 %.)
Could it be a result of their system? Hodgson give PVA more freedom? It could be. But why? If AWB is a gem with potential to play for a team with our history of playing attacking football, why do not Hodgson give him more freedom? And why does not the low risk-game he play results in higher completion rates? To me, it look like he plays with lower risk because he is aware of his limits. I admire that. But it does not make him a Man Utd player.
There is a few other numbers that worry too. For instance Crystal Palace concede significantly more shots and goals from his side of the pitch.
While he could improve greatly and come on in leaps and bounds for a better team as he grows older, I doubt it. Based on what I have seen from his use/handling of the ball, his decision making, movement in the final third and passing, I really doubt it. I think he looks very limited.
And yes, I think he looks inferior to all those players you listed. Certainly TAA, Walker, Cancelo (who City will sign), Azpi and Bellerin. I also think Pereira looks better.
And while Doherty is not as good at defending, I think he would be a better player for us. I would have prefered AWB if I was the manager for Burnley, Palace, Newcastle or Brighton, but for Man Utd I would prefer a player with the qualities of Doherty. Probably even Trippier (who I do not rate at all).
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He really isn't. He's a good prospect, with 1 good season under his belt so far.
Some United posters have a tendency to wildly over-rate players once they start looking likely to be signed by United.
Every single player we ever sign this happens. People raved about Fred, Di Maria, Schniederlin (however you spell it), Falcao the list goes on. Then the toys come out the pram when they don't perform and everyone (woodward) is blamed at the club even though initially they were wanking over the signings. Quite funny really
It is my opinion only and I think many PL watchers will agree. Only TAA I rate as a similar talent as AWB. Both of them had a great season.
Every single player we ever sign this happens. People raved about Fred, Di Maria, Schniederlin (however you spell it), Falcao the list goes on. Then the toys come out the pram when they don't perform and everyone (woodward) is blamed at the club even though initially they were wanking over the signings. Quite funny really
I remember Bastian and Schneiderlin signings vividly. They called them schmidfield and we supposedly had the best midfield in the league. The reality was different
Positive:
Negative:
He has lot of potential, in term of defending he’s already there with one of the best, he can dribble plus has good height are bonus.
But he also has something important he needs to work on and that is his passing. Crossing will be the next thing he needs to improve.
Overall it’s 50:50 whether this will become a good business. Personally I prefer us to sign a new centre back like Maguire or Hummels or Diop first, sign midfielder & no 6 next and if we are running out of money we can always put our faith on Laird & Dalot who probably has the potential to be top full back.
- AWB is an intelligent full back. He’s the best in defending for a full back last season, stats show how impressive he was in defending & high concentration when defending. Something that Bissaka does very often is that he positioning himself to never let wingers to cut inside which gives the winger only one way to go and that is going straight, this makes him easy to predict what the winger will do & with his incredible speed & sliding tackle, he was able to win the ball back. He likes to slide but rarely get injured & commit foul.
- He used to be winger, I often see him not afraid to dribble the ball & also play one two. His dribbling stats is actually pretty good for a full back.
- He’s a 183cm means we can use him to defend set pieces.
Negative:
- I’m not big fans of his passing. Too often he miss passes & 73% is very incredibly low for pass success percentage. It’s something that he needs to work on first when he comes here. A very important aspect, don’t want our player keep giving the ball away.
- Not a good crosser but he can work on this aspect later.
He has lot of potential, in term of defending he’s already there with one of the best, he can dribble plus has good height are bonus.
But he also has something important he needs to work on and that is his passing. Crossing will be the next thing he needs to improve.
Overall it’s 50:50 whether this will become a good business. Personally I prefer us to sign a new centre back like Maguire or Hummels or Diop first, sign midfielder & no 6 next and if we are running out of money we can always put our faith on Laird & Dalot who probably has the potential to be top full back.
Looks good in the tackle and not to shabby going forward either. No brainer.
Similarly, a player who plays in a defensive team will have lesser contributions in the final third.
PVA might be better in attack while AWB could be better in defence and Roy doesn't want both FBs to be attacking at the same time. Not saying he is a perfect player, but he is probably the best option we have. Meunier could be a good option but we will be in the market again in 3 years.
I agree, everyone’s bashing AWB for his supposed lack of threat going forward, Walker got 1 goal and 1 assist in the PL last year.
Lack of composure on the ball and woeful passing ability is way more worrying than his productivity.
He sits deep so you can't expect him to be getting an eye in with crosses. But what you can expect with a £60m deep-sitting defense-minded full back is accurate passes and not hoofball. We already know exactly what an inability on the ball and a preference to hoof looks like, we've got Smalling and Young for that.
I think this will be an excellent signing. The main aspect he'll have to ensure he improves at is his passing. You can get away with not being a good crosser from the right back position, but at a big club you can't be a liability with your passing - like Smalling, for example. Especially at RB where you need link up and help the team put together great passing moves.
Even if its a tactical decision, it do not explain how limited he tends to look.
I do not know all the options out there, bit there are probably several options that are better.
He’s still 23. Can see some of the top sides going for him at that price that can afford his wages.
When people use Laird as a reason not to sign him it makes me mad. Yes the lad may have the potential to become a Utd player but at the moment its a massive may. AWB has had a good season and bit of premiership football more then Laird and Dalot combined . For me i think signing him means we dont have to worry about the position for the next 10 years if he turns into the player we hope he becomes.
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He's on massive wage. Few clubs can afford him, most of them have better players.
Why would we want to sell Shaw. Player of the year this season and already in training for next season.
He’s on 130k per week I think?
Yeah for other teams he has to take a pay cut but PSG etc could afford him for 40m.
I'd sign up Alves if Palace won't play ball, or is he retiring?
Thank god you aren’t in charge
Thank god you aren’t in charge
Why's that? Did you watch Alves against us? Much fitter than our full backs and still absolute quality.
Thank god you aren’t in charge
He is twice the player than any RB option we have and still comfortably better than AWB. Old but would be a good stop gap solution.
Having an expensive sub-optimal solution cannot be classed as not having to worry about a position. A club like United need full backs to be able to defend and have good attacking quality. I would say both are required in equal measure. Someone who can only do one will never be a top class full back at the level required by United.
So far AWB has been tested a PL level and shown that he can only do the defensive side to a high level. Dalot has shown he can only do the offensive part. Right now they are half solutions. Out of all the options mentioned Laird is actually the only one that looks proficient at both attacking and defending so I can definitely see the logic in waiting for him. Only problem is we won't know exactly how good he is until he's been tried at this level.
He is 36 guys so please leave him out of the equation. AWB is definitely an upgrade to what we have but I am seeing this as fans complaining about how his no contribution to our attacking play is killing us in few months time. so better our scouting department analysed this before bidding.
We can take any more risky chances if we want to make this team any better.
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