This is his 3rd year. I haven't seen any improvement from him since he joined us. He is still shit scared of the ball with a bad positioning and a weak aerial ability.
29
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This is his 3rd year. I haven't seen any improvement from him since he joined us. He is still shit scared of the ball with a bad positioning and a weak aerial ability.
Then why didn’t he drastically improved yet?
Comparing him to Valencia, even the washed off version of his, is unfair. Valencia had one big issue — somehow he forgot how to cross and completely lost it in the final third, but other than that his technique was sound and effective. It’s not the case with AWB, I’m not sure how you can argue that his ball skills are good.
1st point I'm assuming you aren't serious, 2nd where is any evidence of this, 3rd agreed although is that what you most want in an RB?
I mean...come on. If we believe a young player should be improving with coaching and he's not improving (FYI I think he has improved but you're saying you can't see it) then it's a coaching problem.
Not for the first time was actively targeted by Southampton's press.
No one stated otherwise and one could argue that it being over a long period time it highlights the limitations in his game
“Drastically”. He has improved attacking-wise during his time here, but if he keeps improving at this rate, he’ll become a great attacking fullback by 2040.
Some things can be coached, some can’t be. He can improve his positioning but no way a player who struggles with simple ball control at 23 years old is going to improve enough at that aspect for it to be enough for a top club to play him without any reservations.
I don’t hate him by the way, we don’t have a better option at the moment and he has his uses, just don’t start with good ball skills nonsense.
He plays best when we are pegged back, and are playing on the counter. When we are on the front foot, he doesn't offer much. It's weird, somtimes he crosses well, but can't seem to consistently do it.
Wait for a couple more games to see if he will improve. Otherwise, give Dalot a couple of games to see if he offers more.
Wait for a couple more games to see if he will improve. Otherwise, give Dalot a couple of games to see if he offers more.
Going by this post, you are the one who isn't serious enough to even make an argument.
Just compare the right backs in the league with him and you Will know what a terrible signing he has been.Trent, James , Cancelo, Pereira, Coufal are all much better than him . Coufal was signed for less than 5 m. The entire Scouting team should be sacked for spending 50m on him. One of the worst deals we have ever done.
I don't think the stats back you up. Shaw is a highly technical player in my book and yet AWB is almost identical when it comes to many stats I assume most on here think Shaw excels at. Look at the miscontrols, the pass success, the dispossessed stats and tell me how one of them "struggles with simple ball control". The only real difference is AWB absolutely wipes the floor with Shaw defensively (as we all probably knew) and Shaw has more key passes, otherwise tell me where the gulf in technical quality is?
AWB has good ball control, what he doesn't have is passing options when he receives the ball. Both our full backs contributed 6 goal involvements each in the PL last season and yet AWB does so much defensively for this CB pairing. Our back 4 is absolutely mint on paper now with Varane & we now have an actual RW to play in front of AWB for the first time ever. I feel you should be much more positive on AWB and give him this season before declaring him so poor technically.
| 20/21 | AWB | Shaw |
| Goals | 2 | 1 |
| Assists | 4 | 5 |
| Pass Success (%) | 84.9 | 85 |
| Aerials Won (p/g) | 1.1 | 1.2 |
| Key Passes (p/g) | 0.9 | 2.3 |
| Crosses | 0.4 | 1.8 |
| Dribbles | 0.9 | 1 |
| Dispossessed | 0.6 | 0.7 |
| Unsuccessful Touch/Miscontrol | 1 | 0.8 |
| Interceptions | 1.8 | 0.6 |
| Fouls | 0.9 | 1.3 |
| Offsides won | 0.2 | 0.1 |
| Clearances | 1.8 | 1.2 |
| Dribbled past | 0.4 | 0.5 |
| Blocks | 0.5 | 0.3 |
Because I think you saying AWB is scared of the ball I'm not serious?
I've taken you at your word and compared them. Pereira barely played last season but look at the below, everything in red is where AWB is better/the same as the players you have brought up...there's an awful lot of red in there for players who are all 'much better than him'.
| TAA | Reece James | Cancelo | Coufal | |
| G | 2 | 1 | 2 | 0 |
| A | 7 | 2 | 3 | 7 |
| Pass Success (%) | 79.4 | 88.4 | 87.1 | 71.2 |
| Aerials Won (p/g) | 0.2 | 1.3 | 1.1 | 1.6 |
| Key Passes (p/g) | 2.1 | 1.3 | 1.6 | 1.3 |
| Crosses (p/g) | 1.9 | 1.1 | 0.4 | 1 |
| Dribbles | 0.9 | 1.1 | 1.7 | 0.4 |
| Dispossessed | 0.6 | 0.7 | 0.8 | 0.5 |
| Unsuccessful Touch/Miscontrol | 0.9 | 0.8 | 1.3 | 1.1 |
| Interceptions | 1.4 | 0.5 | 1.5 | 1.2 |
| Fouls | 0.6 | 1 | 1.3 | 0.9 |
| Offsides won | 0.4 | 0.1 | 0.3 | 0.3 |
| Clearances | 1.2 | 1.3 | 1 | 2.6 |
| Dribbled past | 0.6 | 0.7 | 1.4 | 1.1 |
| Blocks | 0.1 | 0.2 | 0.1 | 0.2 |
Stats don't mean much without context, but if you don't see what we're talking about I doubt that said context (that's already been mentioned in this thread multiple times) — or anything, really, would change your mind. Teams would literally leave their left side open for Wan-Bissaka's runs, choosing to double mark, say, Rashford or Shaw and leave Wan-Bissaka unmarked with the ball near their penalty box. It's a tactical trend that happened many times last season and it's saying something. But I should stop arguing with someone who genuinely believes that Wan-Bissaka is good with the ball and doesn't have any issues with his positioning. If you want to believe that, who am I to try to prove you wrong.
This is the problem about stats, they don't tell you the full story. I mean the difference between AWB and Trents passing tells you all you need to know.
Whenever the ball is with Trent, oppositions worry whereas opponents are happy to give AWB even 1 minute on the ball knowing he is not going to be dangerous with it.
The one thing that really annoys me with him, he clearly cannot attack, he still tries to dribble past a man, he also only knows one way, which makes it so predictable in what he's trying to do, the final ball into the box is poor as well anyway.
It is a major issue for us this, I hope Dalot gets a game or two then fans will realise what a difference it could make.
He is muck, and other players won't help improve him. He should be doing that all by himself, of which he hasn't done in two years. 50 million on a slide tackle is all we paid for.
You didn't reply or tag me but assume this was in response to my post. Do you not feel that having no RW is also a contributor to teams double marking our eft hand side (martial had the issue, now Rashford has it) but if Sancho is RW there aren't enough players to double mark both sides. How does that not factor in to your assessment?
I've presented you with some stats and comparisons and the standard 'stats don't tell everything' line comes up, it makes this just an opinion board of people stating blanket terms like AWB doesn't have 'simple ball control skills' and that he's 'scared of the ball', you'd be better off on twitter if that's what you're after.
If you can point me to some proof of his poor ball control or bad positioning I am all ears, even just specific examples to discuss. If you're not fussed, no worries.
OMG, can't believe I just read that . Basically just proves how stats are very irrelevant without actually putting any context. He is considerably worse than all of them. If you are only.looking at stats, go ahead.
Pass success % is greater for AWB so he is better in passing than Trent ? That's something dude !
No - you'd expect TAA to have lower % because of his role. Surely you get that. In the same way you expect the two FBs in the possession focused teams to have higher %, which they do. Point is that AWB despite his limitations - of which he obviously has some - is not poor technically, still contributes a large amount to goal involvements and is the best defensive FB of them all.
It's clear we're not really on the same wavelength when it comes to how to post/interact on here. If you have anything constructive to point out I'm all ears but if you genuinely think that's how to read passing % (and ignored the rest of it) it's probably best we leave it there.
Well, you didn't mention all these points when you tried to compare their numbers. Did you? You were more eager to show how many red where there compared to AWB.
Point is simple - there are atleast 10 right backs in PL today which I would take over AWB. Shows how much of a bad investment it was . 50m down the drain.
Aren't you a Dalot fanboy? By all means support Dalot, but no need to have an agenda against AWB
Because I am assuming you can read and form your own conclusions from the numbers.
Name the 10.
James, Trent, Cancelo, Walker, Azpi, Ricardo, Coufal are all much better than him.
Aarons,Lamptey, Ayling, Livremento are other options which I would consider above him.
Agenda? It was a poor investment from us. Accept it and Just move on.
Same goes for Dalot as well. Give him game time and if he succeds/improves good, else try getting someone capable.
I was wondering if you were going to say this one and praying you did. Just exposes the agenda/how easily influenced you are. Livramento could be a great FB in time but this just exposes you as being unbelievably biased. The guy has 2 PL apps.
TAA, James, Walker I believe are better all round full backs. Cancelo is a better player although I think he'd be average in our setup. Azpi as RB in a back 4 is average. Ricardo hasn't been better than AWB since 18/19.
agenda - you can say whatever you want mate. That's my list whom I would take above AWB. Cancelo would be average in our setup? Like Shaw you mean ? Ricardo hasn't been better because he hasn't played enough. Azpi as RB is average but what's AWB then ?
Livremento will be one of the best full backs in 2 years. I would rather give minutes to an young player with huge potential than someone who absolutely has no idea how to play that role. It's not rocket science.
You say Azpi as a RB is average in a back but I think he's much better than AWB. He just doesn't play there now because of Chelsea's formation. To me he's an actual complete defensive full back in all aspects, unlike AWB and is much more competent technically.
Mark my post and come back to me end of the season. If I am wrong, I will take a relevant tagname in cafe. If right, would you take one ?
Livramento is the best one
Okay, it's not like I can be arsed with it
It's outrageous that you'd have a guy with 2 PL appearances to his name over AWB
Cancelo would be average in our setup? Like Shaw you mean ? Ricardo hasn't been better because he hasn't played enough. Azpi as RB is average but what's AWB then ?
Livremento will be one of the best full backs in 2 years. I would rather give minutes to an young player with huge potential than someone who absolutely has no idea how to play that role. It's not rocket science.
I keep thinking you've chilled out and stopped the hyperbole and then you just drop another clanger.
Cancelo comes into the midfield, he's a bit unique in how he functions and how Pep gets his full back to operate. As I said, he's a better overall player (I mean he could probably play RW) but I wouldn't take him over AWB for our RB slot. You can see Walker has been trained to come in now but he remains just as good out wide (although I think he's getting towards a gradual decline given how much of his game is based around physicality and pace). I don't know why you are bringing Shaw into it to compare with Cancelo.
Azpi is a great all round defender, he is better in the 3 than on the right of a 4 though now in my opinion. He was a very solid RB a few years back but he is 32 in a few days. I'd argue you could put him in as one of the best value for money PL transfers ever but as an RB in the present day I don't think there's a clear argument that he's better.
Livramento might well be a great player in 2 years but top teams don't sell players they don't think can contribute and Chelsea let him go for a small fee. If he develops into a top full back that's great for Soton but United can't just take chances on academy kids with no PL experience - you didn't watch Chelsea academy games (or did you?) so where have you formed this opinion? AWB was proven in the PL with nearly 50 apps for Palace and had been outstanding for them - that's why we paid the money we did for him.
Explained reasoning re Azpi above. Agree very complete player and if United played in a three, he'd get in but we don't and AWB suits us better in my opinion. Average was harsh, he's obviously good but I think AWB is better specifically at RB for how we play.
Azpi has a good shout for being the best right back in the Prem years imo
Well, you might need 3 years to see if a kid is talented or not but there are people who don't. People would be crying for a full back like him in an year. Feel free to name and shame me when I am wrong. ( you still conveniently ignored the other 10 names , Livramento was the 11th name in the list) .
Azpi is one of the best full backs of the last decade. Branding him as average right back shows how much ignorant you are about players outside of our team.
Are you addicted to signing off with these weird/provocative sentences. If you aren't reading my posts, you can't be helped.No problem with your opinion re Livramento (whose name you couldn't even spell before I corrected you which seems odd given your deep knowledge of him) but where did you form your opinion if you didn't ever watch Chelsea's academy? You watched 2 (maybe even 1 PL game if you don't regularly watch So'ton) and decided he is better than AWB?
I thought it obvious but clearly not, I don't think the others are anywhere near AWB. Coufal is a useful player and gets good assists, Ricardo has been fecked for two seasons on off, he was good in 18/19 but let's see how he holds up this season, the rest just aren't anywhere near. I get you don't like AWB but you really need to tone the bias down, these are some of your quotes from the last page alone:
Talking about AWB and the RB role.
Talking about the transfer.
This is unhinged.
You called one of the best full backs of the last decade as average. If that's not ignorant, I dont know what else is. I didn't mean to be offensive, apologies if you felt that way.
These are all facts. I didn't pull the rabbit out of my hat. AWB cost us 50 fecking million. That's a horrible deal for a player who can only tackle. We spent another 20m on Dalot. That's a whopping 70m on the right back alone and yet, we are debating whether the players are good enough .
Coufal cost 5m. Ricardo cost 25m. This is AWB's 3rd year and how long are we supposed to wait to see that improvement? Why exactly would I spend 50m if I have to wait another 4 years to see an improvement. Seriously? Looks like I'm not the one biased here.
There's another one for the @bond19821982 quote book, right on cue!
You've clearly not read my post re Azpi, third time of asking FYI. How can I be biased when I'm happy to point players I think are better (and explain why) and even players who I understand why people think are better (but give reasons why I don't think they'd suit United) and all I get from you is essentially that AWB can't control a ball, can't pass, can't do anything in fact aside from tackle. I've given you far too much time now I look back at the calibre of response & your constant ducking of questions.
My pro bono work is done, bienvenido to the ignore list.
Better and hope you keep that way. When people run out of answers, ignore option is best way to dodge.
His teammates do look for him an awful lot out there, that's got to be down to coaching.
It's mostly because he's the one that the opposition affords the most space to. Our left side has - and from the looks of things always will be - much stronger.
Any ideas how to remedy this short of dropping him?
I don’t really think we can, to be honest.
I don’t mind Wan Bissaka, and I think he has definitely improved since we’ve signed him, but fundamentally he’s always going to be the weak link in the side going forward in games like Southampton. This isn’t another of the pile on the club posts because we have more than enough as is; but it’s strange how we spent so much on a player with such a fundamental flaw to his game.
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