For best warrior I would go with Robert Baratheon (although he fought with hammer). But I guess at around the same level would be also Ser Arthur Dwayne, Ser Barristan Selmy, possibly Rhaegar, possibly the Smiling Knight and maybe (although a long shot) Jaime Lannister.
Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?
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Yeah I get what you're saying. Still doesn't sit quite right with me. Anyway, if episode 9 is almost exclusively the Battle at the Wall (reported to be this season's Blackwater), I guess episode 10 will see the Hound succumb to his injuries and Arya sail to Braavos?
The storyline with the Hound and Arya is completely warped now - I'm interested to see how it unfolds. Loved Littlefinger's foreshadowing of Tywin's greatest moment.
Yeah that really is a problem imo because them just walking away from there would make little sense because they would certainly want to take her in and not let her walk around the land with the hound.
So I think by now this might actually turn into a fight between the hound and some of the guards when they want to take her in but he doesn't want to let her go without the ransom money.
Who knows but I feel the writers of the show actually are creating too many plot holes by changing large parts of the original story and repeating a near miss with between Arya and Sansa as the did with Brandon and Jon would also be a bit repetitive.
I don't understand the change at all. Even if they just turn around and head back to [somewhere] and the Arya/Hound storyline ends unravels like it does in the book I doubt it will leave a good taste in just show-watchers mouths. I remember being exasperated reading the books and yet they've made the potential Arya reunion in even more promising. At the same time, surely Sansa will learn that Arya was at the gates? And surely the guards would react differently as well.
Ref: Next two episodes
They have the Tywin death, the Hound Death, the battle at the wall, undead cat, then you need closure in ep10 on the events at the wall. Plus I assume we will see segments of other storylines, Bran, Brienne, Dany. Could even see the Boltons/Ironborn/Vale again as well. Busy busy!
I don't think that was a long shot before he lost his hand. Now it probably is though.
Oberyn 
Pedro Pascal did a very good job, the best thing about this season by quite a stretch.
Pedro Pascal did a very good job, the best thing about this season by quite a stretch.I meant before he lost his hand (now he isn't even one of the best of his time, let alone one of the best ever). We have heard that he is good, has trained and while he became the youngest ever member of Kingsguard that was purely for political reasons (Mad King wanted the son of Tywin near him almost like a hostage). We haven't seen what he has done and probably his biggest challenges were fighting Eddard Stark (who while a great figher wasn't near the best one) for a minute when Jaime although totally dominated the fight, still couldn't defeat him and cutting a few Stark men while they were under orders to capture - not kill - him. I also don't remember him winning any significant tourney so personally I would put him on the second level of fighers together with both Clegane brothers, Greatjon and possibly Ned and Overyn. I think that in their prime Robert, Rhaegar, Barristan, Arthur and The Smiling Knight would have defeated him.
Saying that, he might have been the best figter during the events of the story (with Rheagar, Dwayne and the Smiling Knight dead while Robert was fat and Barristan a bit old).
The guys at the gate might just let the hound go. One the are gate guarding lackeys probably not the smartest bunch. The have no idea who Arya is for sure. The hound may not know who else in the vale would be willing to pay for Arya.
GRRM has said that Jaime was the best swordsman in the world, although presumably that was before he lost his hand.
I definitely wouldn't put Robert as the best, but who knows.
Pedro Pascal and Lena Headly fooling around.
That image came out a while ago, and the show watchers never suspected a thing
There's also one that is (probably) about Lady Stoneheart.
Well if going for the best one I would probably say it's between Gerold Hightower and Ser Arthur Dayne simply by how legendary they get portrayed. They also where part of the three king guard's that killed five great swords men when they fought Ned Stark and his 6 companions and if I recall correctly Ned also mentioned that he would have died as well if not for Howland Reed. So maybe as as unlikely as it seems it's actually Howland Reed who was best of them all?
That image came out a while ago, and the show watchers never suspected a thing
There's also one that is (probably) about Lady Stoneheart.
Yeah this picture gets a whole new meaning after tonight. Tbf I didn't really pick up on it as well, despite knowing what his fate was.
If I am not mistaken, Roberts has been mentioned in the first book as the best. I put him on the first place mainly because he defeated and kiled Rhaegar who was a great fighter and on tourneys has defeated several times Arthur Dwayne. Also, that (and Dwayne vs The Smiling Knight) are the only high profile fights that have happened on the story (I mean one vs one fights).
Jaime to me looks a bit like an older version of Ser Loras. Cocky and arrogant and while a great figter, not exactly soemthing you would call proven.
The last bit was gruesomely brilliant and non book readers seem to be shocked by the whole thing which is what you would want, so I guess in essence, the scene worked as it should have. It was never going to live up to my own expectations though, because I've played it out myself so many times in my head and I know all the lines off by heart (most of which were changed or just not there at all), and I still don't get why we were subjected to that shit beetle story instead of a little more build up than "stop drinking before the fight there you cocky auld lad!"
They should have added in the line from Tyrion after the mountain gets pinned to the ground "I'm feeling more alive with every second" or something along those lines with a big grin on his face just to see it freeze when Oberyn goes down. That was the only line from him I really missed. Also a bellowed "shut up" from Gregor wouldn't have hurt.
his last line was better too. "I killed her screaming whelp, I raped her, then I smashed her fecking head in ... like this!"
That was horrific to watch onscreen. Knew it was brutal from the book but somehow had never really seen it as quite that bloody or horrific. The overall scene was probably better in the books, but the show still did it justice.
Another poster made a good point that we should've seen more buildup. How was Tywin reacting to Oberyn fighting since it could compromise his position with Dorne? How would Jaime and Cersei react? I felt there could've been more of that than the Jaime/Tyrion scene. The Mountain was a bit sluggish too. Bar his massive size, he didn't even seem an incredible fighter.
Liked the whole Sansa/Littlefinger thing. For a moment I was confused when she revealed her name but she's getting pretty good at the whole game of thrones thing early which they're playing up now. That final look from her was quite devious.
Another poster made a good point that we should've seen more buildup. How was Tywin reacting to Oberyn fighting since it could compromise his position with Dorne? How would Jaime and Cersei react? I felt there could've been more of that than the Jaime/Tyrion scene. The Mountain was a bit sluggish too. Bar his massive size, he didn't even seem an incredible fighter.
Liked the whole Sansa/Littlefinger thing. For a moment I was confused when she revealed her name but she's getting pretty good at the whole game of thrones thing early which they're playing up now. That final look from her was quite devious.
I just found a video of GRRM calling Jaime "one of the great swordsmen of the history of Westeros", which is pretty high praise. Admittedly the subject matter was "who would win in a fight between Jaime and Aragorn".
Yeah Jaime's definitely one of the best in Westeros history. Dayne is maybe the best, followed by the likes of Jaime, Selmy, the Mountain etc. Oberyn is probably better than a lot of people give him credit for when you consider that he pretty much had the Mountain beaten.
They should do a game or some shit like this.
They should do a game or some shit like this.
Most certainly yes. When it comes just to fighting he defeated the mountain and was only brought down in the end because he was blinded by his thirst for revenge but when it comes to pure fighting skills he just bested one of the most battle hardened and probably the strongest sword fighters the 7 kingdoms have ever seen. So he definitely ranked up among the top 10 I would say.
Yeah, would be interesting to come up with some sort of top 10 or something. Don't know what Oberyn would've been like against other people, but he seems like the sort of quick fighter who's skills were perfect against a big guy.
I think that beetle story has to be the worst piece of writing ever on the show
I think that beetle story has to be the worst piece of writing ever on the show
They seemed to be trying to go all metaphorical and that but it kind of failed. Was way too long as well.
I think that beetle story has to be the worst piece of writing ever on the show
Was that taken from somewhere? Seems like it could be a buddhist riddle, but it's a bit too stupid.
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That's true and also worth considering. Robert Bratheon and Geral Hightower were both big as well and famed for their strength but the Mountain probably would have outdone them in that regard so their strength wouldn't have been a good tool against a freak like the Mountain while Oberyn's speed and agility as well as his ability to fight with a spear were a perfect tool against the Mountain.
So I guess if you made a top 10 and paired up all the sword fighters against each other the outcome wouldn't always be that the higher seeded may have won.
I would probably divide them in three categories. The quick and agile, the all rounders and the big and strong.
Quick and Agile: Oberyn Martell, *Howland Reed*
Allrounders: Jamie Lannister, Ser Arthur Dayne, Ser Barristan Selmy, The Smiling Knight, *Loras Tyrell*
Big and Strong: Gregor Clegane, Sandor Clegane, Robert Baratheon, Gerold Hightower
No idea if Howland Reed and Loras Tyrell really belong in that company though.
Ahem, Brienne? Beat that 'Loser Tyrell' anyway, and Jaime.
You're the biggest nerds on here.
Ooops. How could I forget her? Sure she probably should have a place in here.
I wish, the competition is pretty fierce on here.
Eddard Stark? Only Ned and Howland survived the tower of joy battle, against 3 kingsguard, 2 of which were legendary. He also held his own against Jaime.
Technically yes, but let's not forget the condition/circumstances he had been in. She wouldn't have beaten a fit, free Jaime.
Eddard wasn't anything special IIRC. Decent enough but not in the same league as those named.
Yeah but the tower of joy he only survived due to Howland Reed by his own words. Maybe he would deserve a place in there but a top 10 only has so many spaces.
My impression is that she is Jaime's equal, and that the conditions allowed her to win. Does the narrator say she's inferior? I don't remember.
feck! That last scene was sickeningly gruesome Brilliantly done by Pedro Pascal. The only thing I'd say is that it was too short. Needed a couple of more minutes.
This was the only death after which I had to put the books down. GRRM is a sadistic bastard.
Rest of the episode was average though including that beetle scene. wtf was that all about?
Brilliantly done by Pedro Pascal. The only thing I'd say is that it was too short. Needed a couple of more minutes.This was the only death after which I had to put the books down. GRRM is a sadistic bastard.
Rest of the episode was average though including that beetle scene. wtf was that all about?
Always thought that was more down to Howland possibly using some sort of ability he had, or doing something else that hasn't been explained about that whole incident yet.
Oh okay, that makes a lot of sense if you think about it that way.
I dont watch the tv show regularly so wasnt sure if they had hyped dayne up, would have been cool if they had. One of my favourite part of the book is where Jamie is reminiscing that he wanted to be like the dayne when he was older but ended up becoming the smiling knight instead.
Also, @Revan's mention of Robert makes me sad as how badly they butchered his character in the tv show. What about Duncan the tall from the Dunc and Eggs tales, he was suppose to be quite a fighter as well.