Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?

[Nickosaur]

 

[Nighteyes]

Shae in the books is a whore and acts like a whore.

Shae in the show is a whore and acts above her station and is fecking annoying.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Yeah she's shite in the show. The worst part of the episode was her breaking down like a little puppy dog when Tyrion told her to leave.

 

[Scrumpet]

Book Shae is thick as shit. Show Shae is hardly a great character but still an improvement, I can at least understand what Tyrion sees in her unlike in the books.

 

[Nighteyes]

Tyrion didn't see much in Shae even in the books. He kept on telling himself she was just a whore and she only wanted his money but could never send her away. He wanted to believe she loved him but always knew she didn't. Not sure if that makes sense...

 

[Massive Spanner]

The annoying thing about the TV show is that they make characters who are eventually getting killed off far more likable, for the audience obviously. I hated both Tywin and Shae in the books and it was a massive "win" moment with Tyrion crossbowed them, now all I can see is people complaining when it's done on TV.

 

[JustAFan]

Tyrion didn't see much in Shae even in the books. He kept on telling himself she was just a whore and she only wanted his money but could never send her away. He wanted to believe she loved him but always knew she didn't. Not sure if that makes sense...

Given his history with his first wife, it makes perfect sense.

 

[JustAFan]

The annoying thing about the TV show is that they make characters who are eventually getting killed off far more likable, for the audience obviously. I hated both Tywin and Shae in the books and it was a massive "win" moment with Tyrion crossbowed them, now all I can see is people complaining when it's done on TV.

My wife loves to hate Tywin, but all she keep saying every episode is "Why doesn't one of his kids just kill him, he is such a bastard!" Especially about Tyrion, every scene between them she says if she were Tyrion she would kill Tywin, lol.

 

[JustAFan]

Great, I just read the reddit asoif page and I came across this.

Don't kill Arya!

What was the context of that quote, I can't remember?

 

[Massive Spanner]

My wife loves to hate Tywin, but all she keep saying every episode is "Why doesn't one of his kids just kill him, he is such a bastard!" Especially about Tyrion, every scene between them she says if she were Tyrion she would kill Tywin, lol.

Really? Most people I know think Tywin is great, although you could argue it is largely down to how brilliantly Charles Dance portrays him, but still, they don't make him nearly as stone cold and ruthless in the TV show as in the books. He was one of the few pure evil characters in the books alongside Joffrey and The Mountain.

 

[Melvyn]

I still don't know what Shae was doing in Tywin's bed. He hates whores, why on earth was she in his bed?

Also, Tywin's character is hateable, but Charles Dance.

 

[Massive Spanner]

An easy example of making him far more likable in te TV show was adding in his scenes with Arya in Harrenhal.

 

[MJJ]

I still don't know what Shae was doing in Tywin's bed. He hates whores, why on earth was she in his bed?

Also, Tywin's character is hateable, but Charles Dance.

Because he was a hypocrite?

 

[Melvyn]

Because he was a hypocrite?

I felt like it was entirely out of character for him.

 

[Nighteyes]

What was the context of that quote, I can't remember?

Just ctrl+f'd the the quote:

Jon watched them leave, and Arya watched Jon. His face had grown as still as the pool at the heart of the godswood. Finally he climbed down off the window. “The show is done,” he said. He bent to scratch Ghost behind the ears. The white wolf rose and rubbed against him. “You had best run back to your room, little sister. Septa Mordane will surely be lurking. The longer you hide, the sterner the penance. You’ll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers.”

Not sure if that's foreshadowing anything.

 

[JustAFan]

Really? Most people I know think Tywin is great, although you could argue it is largely down to how brilliantly Charles Dance portrays him, but still, they don't make him nearly as stone cold and ruthless in the TV show as in the books. He was one of the few pure evil characters in the books alongside Joffrey and The Mountain.

She thinks he is a great character to have on the show, but also he is a nasty piece of work, hence the "love to hate" part. In other words he is a great "villan" I imagine if she read the books she would hate him even more.

Every story like this needs excellent "bad guys" and Tywin is certainly that.

 

[Nighteyes]

I felt like it was entirely out of character for him.

Why?

He married for love, yet didn't want his children to do the same.

Tyrion shouldn't bed whores, but he wanted to.

He was a massive hypocrite.

 

[Cheesy]

I wonder if they'll keep that scene where Tyrion finds Shae with Tywin. He's still fairly evil, but his scenes with Arya and his general character have made him a tad more human and understandable. Some may find him being in bed with a whore unbelievable, because whereas we don't see him too often in the books so his hypocrisy is hidden, he has more scenes in the show so people may find it surprising, especially since Shae actually seems to love Tyrion in the show unlike in the books where she's basically using him for his riches, and quickly jumps into bed with Tywin because he can offer more.

 

[MJJ]

I felt like it was entirely out of character for him.

It made me think that we dont really know much about his character though. He hated the whores his dad and tyrion had because they disgraced the family image more than because they were whores. He might have had whores of his own but been discreet about it.

 

[JustAFan]

Just ctrl+f'd the the quote:



Not sure if that's foreshadowing anything.

Well if so, it seems at least from Jon's POV more of an off-hand statement then a prophetic statement. But from a writers standpoint, who knows.

 

[Cheesy]

She thinks he is a great character to have on the show, but also he is a nasty piece of work, hence the "love to hate" part. In other words he is a great "villan" I imagine if she read the books she would hate him even more.

Every story like this needs excellent "bad guys" and Tywin is certainly that.

While we love villains like Joffrey who are so despicable and pathetic that you have to hate them, we also tend to love villains like Tywin who are evil in their own way but good and what they do and quite badass as well that we can't help but hold some sort of admiration of them. That moment when he sent Joffrey to bed last season was great TV.

 

[MJJ]

And I dont think he was portrayed as being pure evil in the books though. Jamies's aunt spoke very favorably of tywin in one scene which made justified some of his behavior to me.

As opposed to Joffrey, most of whose actions were not due to any grander plan but because he was a cnut.

 

[Cheesy]

It made me think that we dont really know much about his character though. He hated the whores his dad and tyrion had because they disgraced the family image more than because they were whores. He might have had whores of his own but been discreet about it.

I remember seeing a theory one time that the entire secret passageway at the bottom of the black cells which Varys shows Tyrion was built by Tywin so he could use whores without being caught by other people. It'll be interesting to see if we see more of his relationship with Shae onscreen, or if they intend to make Tyrion discovering them a major shock for viewers. Alternatively, they could take a different path and have Tywin hang Shae as he promised Tyrion, making Tyrion's motives for killing him a lot stronger.

 

[MJJ]

I remember seeing a theory one time that the entire secret passageway at the bottom of the black cells which Varys shows Tyrion was built by Tywin so he could use whores without being caught by other people. It'll be interesting to see if we see more of his relationship with Shae onscreen, or if they intend to make Tyrion discovering them a major shock for viewers. Alternatively, they could take a different path and have Tywin hang Shae as he promised Tyrion, making Tyrion's motives for killing him a lot stronger.

Think they might do this as they are trying not to over complicate things like bronn training Jamie but it would take a lot away from the scene though so am hoping they dont do that.

 

[Cheesy]

Think they might do this as they are trying not to over complicate things like bronn training Jamie but it would take a lot away from the scene though so am hoping they dont do that.

Yeah, part of what makes Tyrion so bitter and disillusioned in the 5th book is that he murdered his father and his lover, and that he found them together. While it could make his hatred of his father clearer and give him more of a motive, the humiliation of finding them together is probably enough for him and is probably more effective.

 

[JustAFan]

I felt like it was entirely out of character for him.

Even Tywin Lannister probably gets tired of polishing his own sword. And if he got involved with any noble ladies that would just bring political complications. He has nothing to gain by remarrying, so what else can he do for a little stress relief? I expect he just preferred being discreet with his daliances as opposed to Tyrion who made no attempt to hid his whoring.

I think the reason it seemed so out of character is that up until that point we had not seen him at all needed any sort of sexual situation. But in reality he is human like everyone else, are we really to believe that he gave up sex the moment his wife died?

 

[JustAFan]

Yeah, part of what makes Tyrion so bitter and disillusioned in the 5th book is that he murdered his father and his lover, and that he found them together. While it could make his hatred of his father clearer and give him more of a motive, the humiliation of finding them together is probably enough for him and is probably more effective.

Finding his father in bed with Shae, is a bit of the old treatment giving to Tysha all over again isn't it? Well I mean at least finding out they had shared a bed.

 

[Nighteyes]

I thought the primary reason for despising and eventually killing Tywin was what he did with Tysha?

Have they brought up Tysha in the show?

 

[Revan]

Really? Most people I know think Tywin is great, although you could argue it is largely down to how brilliantly Charles Dance portrays him, but still, they don't make him nearly as stone cold and ruthless in the TV show as in the books. He was one of the few pure evil characters in the books alongside Joffrey and The Mountain.

I don't really agree. Usually Tywin didn't do evil things just because the sake of it, neither enjoyed bad things. He was very pragmatic though and was able to do whatever needed to be done in order to win the war(s).

Joffrey, Ramsey, Mountain and Viserios were those who IMO were completely evil and enjoyed hurting others. Tywin and probably also Roose and Euron did bad things when they needed to do it, but always with an endgoal.

 

[MJJ]

I thought the primary reason for despising and eventually killing Tywin was what he did with Tysha?

Have they brought up Tysha in the show?

Think they will do when Jaime releases tyrion from his cell.

 

[Revan]

Think they will do when Jaime releases tyrion from his cell.

I don't know how they can do it and got understooded from the public if it had not been mentioned before. On the other side, 'where does the whores go' serves somehow as his motivation on the fifth book, so they probably need to include Tysha somehow.

 

[MJJ]

I don't know how they can do it and got understooded from the public if it had not been mentioned before. On the other side, 'where does the whores go' serves somehow as his motivation on the fifth book, so they probably need to include Tysha somehow.

If they havent mentioned her till now that is the only time I think they can do it. Get Jaime to talk about how she wasnt a whore, then play a montage of tyrion remembering what has happened as he goes to kill tywin.

 

[Conrad]

Shae in the books is a whore and acts like a whore.

Shae in the show is a whore and acts above her station and is fecking annoying.

Tyrion didn't see much in Shae even in the books. He kept on telling himself she was just a whore and she only wanted his money but could never send her away. He wanted to believe she loved him but always knew she didn't. Not sure if that makes sense...

Yes she acts like a whore, though most of the other whores encountered are far more likeable, which is why I found it so annoying that so much time was devoted to such an awful one dimensional character who one of the best characters in the series inexplicably falls in love with. Which he definitely does though I agree he tries to fight it by reminding himself she is just a whore. "I'm free of Tysha now. She's haunted me half my life, but I don't need her any more, no more than I need Alayaya or Dancy or Marei, or the hundreds like them I've bedded with over the years. I have Shae now. Shae." Shae in the series is far from my favourite character but I think she is a definite step up from book Shae.

 

[JustAFan]

I don't really agree. Usually Tywin didn't do evil things just because the sake of it, neither enjoyed bad things. He was very pragmatic though and was able to do whatever needed to be done in order to win the war(s).

Joffrey, Ramsey, Mountain and Viserios were those who IMO were completely evil and enjoyed hurting others. Tywin and probably also Roose and Euron did bad things when they needed to do it, but always with an endgoal.

Not everything. I mean the entire Tysha incident, what did that gain him? What war did that win him? That seemed to be pretty evil just for the sake of being a bastard to his son whose only sin was being born.

Like most in this series he is after power and he is also driven by his legacy, he claims it is about his family name, but lets face it all he really cares about is what people will think about him personally. That is why he hates Tyrion so much, yes his wife died as a result of childbirth, but in the end Tyrion's physical appearance is an embarrassment not just becuase others have and do make fun of him, but because Tywin is embarrassed that something "like that" could be produced by his loins. He believes his enemies will see it as a weakness, Tywin sees it as some sort of stain on the Lannister legacy.

 

[JustAFan]

Think they will do when Jaime releases tyrion from his cell.

I thought in the show there was a scene with Bronn, Shae and Tyrion where they were playing a drinking game and Tyrion told them about Tysha?

 

[MJJ]

I thought in the show there was a scene with Bronn, Shae and Tyrion where they were playing a drinking game and Tyrion told them about Tysha?

No idea, cant remember at all which I think will be the case for most of the TV watchers.

 

[Nighteyes]

Yes she acts like a whore, though most of the other whores encountered are far more likeable, which is why I found it so annoying that so much time was devoted to such an awful one dimensional character who one of the best characters in the series inexplicably falls in love with. Which he definitely does though I agree he tries to fight it by reminding himself she is just a whore. "I'm free of Tysha now. She's haunted me half my life, but I don't need her any more, no more than I need Alayaya or Dancy or Marei, or the hundreds like them I've bedded with over the years. I have Shae now. Shae." Shae in the series is far from my favourite character but I think she is a definite step up from book Shae.

I just think Shae's actions make a lot more sense in the books. She only whines about wanting clothes and jewels a couple of times but most times she's just happy to be his feck buddy. In the show, she constantly whines about being his whore (which she is). I mean what does she expect of him?

 

[Conrad]

I just think Shae's actions make a lot more sense in the books. She only whines about wanting clothes and jewels a couple of times but most times she's just happy to be his feck buddy. In the show, she constantly whines about being his whore (which she is). I mean what does she expect of him?

Shae in the books does make sense which sort of kills any amazement about her double betrayal later on. Shae on the TV show has a pretty woman type relationship with Tyrion except with a lot of paranoia on both sides leading to all the whining. I think the way they've decided to go with Shae is going to make the betrayal later on a more satisfying twist for non book readers.

 

[Revan]

I thought in the show there was a scene with Bronn, Shae and Tyrion where they were playing a drinking game and Tyrion told them about Tysha?

Indeed it is. Skip to the fourth minute of the video:

 

[DWelbz19]

An easy example of making him far more likable in te TV show was adding in his scenes with Arya in Harrenhal.

I agree that was the intention, but I thought that segment was a little silly. I mean, Tywin is one of the most smartest and powerful men in Westeros. She basically played him, and despite all the clues, he took forever to figure it and out. And when he did, surely he wouldn't be naive enough to just think she's a random high class girl from the North? The on screen chemistry was great, but I felt it ruined his character. It should've stayed as Roose - walk us into his character and perhaps provide a bit of an insight into the Boltons, seeing as he is culpable for the Red Wedding and North, and will be a prevalent villain here on out. But again, maybe it's that further shock-value it brought; keep Roose as an ally and it looks even more "OMG NO" when Cat sees the chain-mail and he strikes the blade within him with those memorable words (which I also wasn't happy with, the change from 'Jaime' to the 'Lannisters').