Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?

akash02 said:
Yeah, he does. He has some great lines as well. They've fecked up Shae's character though and whitewashed Tyrion's.
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Yep. There was no reason to do what they did with Shae. In the end she was supposed to be a whore, while now people will have sympathy for her.

An character which has been portrayed very badly is Stannis. I liked him in the books, but on the show he is really boring.
 
JustAFan said:
Will agree to disagree, if they want to be utter stupid twats getting upset over things that should be obvious to anyone watching the show regardless of whether they read the books or not, then they need to be told to calm down. Something is either a spoiler or it isn't. If it isn't then they have no leg to stand on whining about it.
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What a stupid thing to say. It doesn't matter if it's obvious or not, if they realize you're a book reader they are going to be looking for double meaning automatically. Frankly, I think the only reason you haven't at least had official warnings yet is that no one has realized you're a book reader yet.

I just realized you posted these in the thread. You've got to be kidding me. It has to be clear to you that it's not okay for you to engage the show watchers in speculation, no matter how innocent and "obvious" you try to phrase it. If you keep it up you're going to get banned.

JustAFan said:
1) Fair point
2) The money was for the cost of the wedding, so there are no savings to be had. From watching the scene with Tywin and the old broad, the money has already been handed over and spent.
3) Defininitely removing the number of Lannisters who would be in line for the throne. Tommin and the daughter they shipped off are the only two left. There are of course uncles and cousins who would be in line to inherit Casterly Rock. But the list of Lannisters with a claim to the Iron Throne got cut by 1/3 didn't it.

Will throw this out there, via my daughters theory. With Joffrey dead, Tommin will be next in line, unmarried little kid, guess who is back to being Queen Regent and having some power. Cersei. Think that power mad bitch might kill her own kid, who she had lost control of and knew was a monster?
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JustAFan said:
Yes there may be other money to be loaned based on the marriage and that the could be a broken deal now.

The throne does not pass to Margaery, just as it did not pass to Cersei upon Robert's death. I do beleive Tommin is next in line. Being young he will need somene to be his Regent. No way in hell Tywin and/or Cersei allow the Tyrells to have that power. At least that is how I see it.
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Revan said:
An character which has been portrayed very badly is Stannis. I liked him in the books, but on the show he is really boring.
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What's annoying is that the actor who plays Stannis is quite good. They've just not written him very well in the show.

No surprise though, last episode was written by GRRM and Stannis "I hate a good many things, but I suffer them all the same". All the Baratheons were good for a laugh.
 
niMic said:
What a stupid thing to say. It doesn't matter if it's obvious or not, if they realize you're a book reader they are going to be looking for double meaning automatically. Frankly, I think the only reason you haven't at least had official warnings yet is that no one has realized you're a book reader yet.

I just realized you posted these in the thread. You've got to be kidding me. It has to be clear to you that it's not okay for you to engage the show watchers in speculation, no matter how innocent and "obvious" you try to phrase it. If you keep it up you're going to get banned.
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Jaysus, JustAFan is worse than I ever was at that thread. He is actually speculating and giving 'his point of view' on who might have killed Joffrey and where the throne will go.
 
niMic said:
What a stupid thing to say. It doesn't matter if it's obvious or not, if they realize you're a book reader they are going to be looking for double meaning automatically. Frankly, I think the only reason you haven't at least had official warnings yet is that no one has realized you're a book reader yet.

I just realized you posted these in the thread. You've got to be kidding me. It has to be clear to you that it's not okay for you to engage the show watchers in speculation, no matter how innocent and "obvious" you try to phrase it. If you keep it up you're going to get banned.
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Everything I said was based on events shown in the show. The Tommen thing is pretty obvious to all but one or two posters over there. So yeah I am fine with everything I have said.

Also, I have mentioned recently in there I have read the books, they did not seem that bothered.

Don't like what I say in that thread, don't read it.
 
Revan said:
Yep. There was no reason to do what they did with Shae. In the end she was supposed to be a whore, while now people will have sympathy for her.

An character which has been portrayed very badly is Stannis. I liked him in the books, but on the show he is really boring.
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Shae's character in the show sucks. Stannis comes accross as way to stiff, I mean physically stiff not just stiff in his convictions.
 
niMic said:
Don't be ridiculous. There is no way for a show-watcher to know what is a spoiler or not, so they have to assume everything is. That's just how it works. Anything I as a book-reader say in that thread, whether I try to or not, is coloured by the fact that I know what is going to happen. If you say Tommen is next in line for the throne and they realize you've read the books, they're going to start asking themselves whether you're saying that because it's been mentioned in the show, you're just making an assumption based on real world succession laws, or you know that Tommen is going to be crowned King. Your post can be completely innocent and it's still impossible for them to know that it is.

The solution is simple. Don't post in the thread about actual plot stuff. Any ambiguity to that rule leads to the instances we've had of people actually posting spoilers, whether they meant to or not.
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Sorry, I don't agree. You've done a commendable job so far, with just 11 posts in that thread, none of them dealing with any plot twists, but I think you are over analyzing the entire Tommen episode. Maybe the example is not a good one, but I'd leave it to the TV watchers to complain instead of book reader like you raising a flag that there could be a potential spoiler in a post. We'll just have to disagree on this. The good thing is, the roles will be reversed going into Season 6 or 7, as it's almost certain that the TV Watchers will spoil for the book readers.
 
fishfingers15 said:
Sorry, I don't agree. You've done a commendable job so far, with just 11 posts in that thread, none of them dealing with any plot twists, but I think you are over analyzing the entire Tommen episode. Maybe the example is not a good one, but I'd leave it to the TV watchers to complain instead of book reader like you raising a flag that there could be a potential spoiler in a post. We'll just have to disagree on this. The good thing is, the roles will be reversed going into Season 6 or 7, as it's almost certain that the TV Watchers will spoil for the book readers.
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I avoided posting in the thread that JustAFan is a book reader for that very reason. Then everyone would still have the chance to read his posts and realize he came into the discussion with more information than they could have had. I did tell Wibble, though, just so he could delete the posts that have been quoted, since JustAFan can't remove those. The cat was going to come out of the bag eventually. Someone would remember JustAFan saying he was a book reader, or see his name on the "last post" of this thread, and they'd be upset.

I'm just George Bushing it and being pre-emptive.
 
niMic said:
I avoided posting in the thread that JustAFan is a book reader for that very reason. Then everyone would still have the chance to read his posts and realize he came into the discussion with more information than they could have had. I did tell Wibble, though, just so he could delete the posts that have been quoted, since JustAFan can't remove those. The cat was going to come out of the bag eventually. Someone would remember JustAFan saying he was a book reader, or see his name on the "last post" of this thread, and they'd be upset.

I'm just George Bushing it and being pre-emptive.
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I was assuming that he made a single line post saying Tommen is the next in line, so my argument here may not be entirely valid. Kouroux posted in that thread saying Reek-Ramsay episode was terrifying in the serial. I did respond saying it's not nearly terrifying as it was in the book. My post didn't have anything about plot reveals, yet still TV watchers (I'm going to call them the Others from now on) still objected to it. So, it does seem that the Others are very touchy about the book readers (crows), so it's better to avoid the thread in all fairness. Hopefully the Others cnuts will return the favour during the 7th episode.
 
Everyone should just read the books so no surprises or spoilers. It doesn't affect the anticipation of the show at all. One of the reasons I read all the books is mainly for spoilers and I just couldn't wait to know what happens next. The social media lights up with spoilers on a daily basis. Waiting to watch the entire series without encountering spoilers will be nearly impossible.
 
Have not read a lot of interviews with GRRM, so not sure if he has mentioned of this or not. But when all is said and done it will be interesting to find out which if any characters that he changed his plans for them as the books went along. Someone he at first planned to have play a major role right up until the end but then decided that based on how the story was evolving it was best to have him or her killed off. Or just the opposite. Or other major changes to their actions that he originally planned one way then decided to go another.

Writing this kind of multi-book epic has to be incredibly difficult. You have to make a plan that expands out over all the books. Then there has to be times when you realize you have or are writing yourself into a corner you can not get out of in regards to this plan and have to scrap hours, days, weeks, months etc of work just to undo it all. Tough enough I would imagine to just plan out a story for one book.
 
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fishfingers15 said:
I was assuming that he made a single line post saying Tommen is the next in line, so my argument here may not be entirely valid. Kouroux posted in that thread saying Reek-Ramsay episode was terrifying in the serial. I did respond saying it's not nearly terrifying as it was in the book. My post didn't have anything about plot reveals, yet still TV watchers (I'm going to call them the Others from now on) still objected to it. So, it does seem that the Others are very touchy about the book readers (crows), so it's better to avoid the thread in all fairness. Hopefully the Others cnuts will return the favour during the 7th episode.
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While I do find their overreaction annoying, its more to do with them being spoiled so often in the past that they have all gone slightly crazy now. TH in particular.
 
akash02 said:
What's annoying is that the actor who plays Stannis is quite good. They've just not written him very well in the show.

No surprise though, last episode was written by GRRM and Stannis "I hate a good many things, but I suffer them all the same". All the Baratheons were good for a laugh.
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Hopefully he'll improve and get better once he heads up to the Wall. Part of the boring aspect of the character right now probably comes from the fact that he is lingering in Dragonstone not doing much, but he'll probably come across as a lot better when he does something for the good of Westeros and gets into the action.
 
Red_devil_ said:
Everyone should just read the books so no surprises or spoilers. It doesn't affect the anticipation of the show at all. One of the reasons I read all the books is mainly for spoilers and I just couldn't wait to know what happens next. The social media lights up with spoilers on a daily basis. Waiting to watch the entire series without encountering spoilers will be nearly impossible.
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From the Peter Dinklage interview on John Stewart

Dinklage, meanwhile, suggested if fans wanted to know what would happen, they could always just read the books.
"Do you know what country you live in?" Stewart wanted to know.
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http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-peter-dinklage-reveals-how-game-of-thrones-keeps-its-secrets-20140401,0,212228.story#ixzz2yyPtlCgX
 
JustAFan said:
Have not read a lot of interviews with GRRM, so not sure if he has mentioned of this or not. But when all is said and done it will be interesting to find out which if any characters that he changed his plans for them as the books went along. Someone he at first planned to have play a major role right up until the end but then decided that based on how the story was evolving it was best to have him or her killed off. Or just the opposite. Or other major changes to their actions that he originally planned one way then decided to go another.

Writing this kind of multi-book epic has to be incredibly difficult. You have to make a plan that expands out over all the books. Then there has to be times when you realize you have or are writing yourself into a corner you can not get out of in regards to this plan and have to scrap hours, days, weeks, months etc of work just to undo it all. Tough enough I would imagine to just plan out a story for one book.
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The impression I got from some of his interviews is that he isn't overly involved with the show other than 1 episode he writes. For instance, he does not seem to know how long they are going to stretch the last 2 books out in the show.

Agree with the last para. Full respect to him for writing something of this scale an I can't think of any slip ups he's made either.
 
akash02 said:
The impression I got from some of his interviews is that he isn't overly involved with the show other than 1 episode he writes. For instance, he does not seem to know how long they are going to stretch the last 2 books out in the show.

Agree with the last para. Full respect to him for writing something of this scale an I can't think of any slip ups he's made either.
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Really? He seems quite involved to me as the showrunners seem to have mentioned a few times how they've consulted with him on this and that. Also, with the seemingly inevitable fate of the show outpacing the books, I think he might probably even get more involved in the show.

And as to the "read the books" thing, some people just aren't into reading especially fantasy. It's just much, much easier watching it. I've got a few friends who couldn't get into the first books at all, but are ardent fans of the series.
 
Seveneric said:
Really? He seems quite involved to me as the showrunners seem to have mentioned a few times how they've consulted with him on this and that. Also, with the seemingly inevitable fate of the show outpacing the books, I think he might probably even get more involved in the show.
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The showrunners communicate with him to know the rough plotlines for the characters. He's said he has no time to be more involved with show and is "well into" Winds of Winter. He's also said, we'll most likely have 2 different version of the same story so I think he's concentrating on the books and letting the hbo get on with it.
 
Didn't know there was a asoiaf subreddit, I'll scour through it sometime. On the first page though, their Melisandre rumour/theory is interesting :lol:

akash02 said:
The showrunners communicate with him to know the rough plotlines for the characters. He's said he has no time to be more involved with show and is "well into" Winds of Winter. He's also said, we'll most likely have 2 different version of the same story so I think he's concentrating on the books and letting the hbo get on with it.
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Interesting. Seemed like he was a bit more involved to me, at least a lot more than other authors have been in the adaptations of their work
 
Jon Snow - Luke Skywalker connection:

  1. Being the son of the enemy (Ned was fighting the Targaryens at the time and Rhaegar would have been seen as the enemy)? Check

  2. Hidden by family members? Check

  3. Luke being the 'chosen one' who would restore the balance in the force - Jon Snow could be the chosen one "Prince that was Promised" which also makes sense cause Aerys thought Rhaegar was the "Prince that was Promised" just like the Jedis thought that Anakin was 'The One'

  4. Jon Snow was born out of forbidden love of Rhaegar &Lyanna like Luke was born out of Padme & Anakin's forbidden love. He was a Jedi and could not marry (on the movies), Snow is a Nightwatch and cannot marry.
 
Can someone remind me...

Why didn't they kill Joffrey at some point before the wedding and have Margaery marry Tommen? Why wait until after she had married Joffrey?
 
I guess it was to defer blame to Tyrion/Sansa/anyone but themselves easily. Also, GRRM loves his weddings.
 
Yeah I figured it was something like that. Like if Joffrey had died before the wedding the Tyrells would have come under suspicion but less so afterwards. Plus at that point they were probably inextricably linked with the Lannisters anyway so remarrying Tommen might have been inevitable, particularly as Joffrey obviously didn't have time to consummate the marriage.

Bit elaborate though.
 
Elaborate was probably the best way to do it - plenty of witnesses with a riled Tyrion at the forefront. I guess the whole notion with proganda to keep it 'simple and easy to repeat' comes into play; "Tyrion poisoned Joffrey." No ambiguity, no other motives, no plotholes. Cersei, who'd probably be the hardest to convince as she despises the Tyrells, is pretty hell-bent that it was Tyrion. I think that probably had effect too. We also have to remember Littlefinger's involvement, it was easy for him to sneak Sansa away, who, as many have been discussing, is his key to the North.
 
I think he was the best pick of a bad bunch, really. From a Tyrell view, it would free Sansa to marry Willas(?), and so Tyrion was scapegoated. It could be complete coincidence that he is the one Cersei immediately blames and everyone jumps board, but I think it seems more sophisticated for Tyrion to be the target. LF and Olenna are sophisticated in what they do, too.
 
Great, I just read the reddit asoif page and I came across this.
Scariest piece of potential foreshadowing in this whole damn series.

I'll see you and raise you this quote (Jon speaking to Arya):

"You’ll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers.”
​
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Don't kill Arya!
 
Scrumpet said:
Was framing Tyrion really part of the plan though? I think he was just a victim of circumstance.
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The Tyrell's, despite having the motive to frame Tyrion, were I think solely concentrated on killing Joffrey and didn't care much about who got caught. Littlefinger on the other hand had the motive to get rid of Tyrion and the means. He was the one who arranged for those dwarves at the wedding so he might have expected something like this to happen.
 
Bran's vision showed us the shadow of a giant dragon flying over King's Landing. Hopefully this happens in this season.
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goose-laughing.gif
 
I can barely remember what she did in the book at this stage. Just sat there getting fapped off by Missandei and bonked by Andy Carroll whilst her dragons killed goats and kids?
 
Judging by the TV thread people will be unhappy about how the next couple of seasons pan out as an overall story. The next two books are certainly slower, and more and more plotlines/characters move away from Kings Landing as well, which has been the location for much of the gripping TV in the series so far. I wonder if the next book were to be released in 2015 whether they will make books 4/5 just one series in the show?

They will definitely have trouble making Daenerys interesting if each book is given it's own season, and she's basically the poster girl for the entire show.
 
mitChley said:
Good episode I thought, Joffreys death was more violent than I had imagined.

Two things though:

1) Didn't like how they handled Shae. In the books you really think 'You bitch!' when she arrives at the trial, now you wouldn't even be surprised.

2) I can't remember Theon confessing he didn't kill Bran & Rickon in the books, did he?
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Am I the only person who thinks the version of Shae in the show is far superior to the one in the books? Admittedly, I watched the first three seasons of the show before reading the books so maybe that has something to do with it.

I was in no way surprised when Shae in the books turns up at his trial and completely backstabs him. She is the worlds worst person and is clearly only interested in jewels, clothes and living the high life in the capital. That she has no loyalty or affection for Tyrion, or anyone, is fairly clear even before the trial. The only mystery, I thought, was why on earth the usually intelligent Tyrion couldn't see it coming.

She is a pretty awful character in the books in my opinion. I can only think GRRM included her to show the vulnerability that Tyrion has towards women after his first marriage but the show version does this and more. In the shows their relationship is far more subtly done and you can actually see that there was something genuine there with Shae, especially after she refused to leave when Varys tries to pay her off. Equally, you can see how the relationship starts to unravel with Tyrion's paranoia over her safety pushing Shae away who, it is mentioned, has an edge and will do what she needs to survive.
 
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