I don't think there is anything so far in the books that indicates that Stannis is a man willing to settle surely?
Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?
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According to Wibble's policy they should be spoilered. Cina who opened it said that nothing has the need to be spoilered. It shouldn't be spoilered IMO, in the end it is predictions and all of us are only guessing.
Stannis isn't fighting to get the throne because he wants the throne (he has hinted many times that he never wanted/asked for a throne). He is fighing for the throne because he is convinced that he is the rightful king and only with him as king the kingdom can survive. But with the emergence of Targaryans who have better claims than him (and likely are more stronger and will be more beloved from the smallfolk), the kingdom has more chance to survive with them as king/queen, so there I can see Stannis backtracking. Of course, I think that it is more likely that he will dies, possibly sacrificing himself in order to save someone more important.
It would be very interesting to see how will he behave when Melisandre tells him than Jon is Azor Ahai.
Wibble probably doesn't even read this thread. This isn't a TV show either, this is a series of books. There's no way we're supposed to be spoilering things in this thread, except if anyone gets their hands on an early copy of the next books.
That was more out of hope than expectation. I am hoping when he sees the dragons that he is reluctantly settles. There's also the fact that if he dies then the Baratheon name dies with him, don't think he would want that.
It is not like in the TV thread where some educated book-reader could accidentally spoil something.
Well, there's still Shireen, and a few bastards.
Gendry becoming the new Lord of Storm's End, with Arya as his lady? Too Hollywoodian for GRRM, IMO.
Well I guess if GRRM is a United fan...
But that is what I mean Revan. he is convinced that he is the rightful heir to the throne because of his brother (and his 'bastard kids'). He knew about the existence of Dany and he still thinks he should be rightful king.
Depends I guess on how much he believes in Melisandre's religion, especially if she tells him he isn't actually AA.
Depends I guess on how much he believes in Melisandre's religion, especially if she tells him he isn't actually AA.
He'll probably end the series with the White walkers winning the battle and Westeros being ruled by the reincarnated Others version of Joffrey, Cersei and the mountain.
Oh yeah, forgot about her.
More likely to be Edric Storm if Stannis uses bastards. He's noble on both sides while Gendry's mother was probably a whore.
I think the sentence that describes Stannis best is "Stannis is like Iron he will break before he bends." So I can only see one outcome for him and that is death in some way shape or form. Unless of course he will admit that the claim of a Tagearen is even better than his own or if he is Azor Ahai and I think both cases seem unlikely.
For all we know Ramsey Bolton said the truth and Stannis is already dead.
For all we know Ramsey Bolton said the truth and Stannis is already dead.
Just read the chapter when The Mountain and the Snake fought. Easily the best chapter in the entire books and pisses on the Red Wedding chapter. The best part of it is that you get convinced that Oberyn is going to defeat Clegane (and actually he does that) but in the end he gets a bit complacent (probably because of emotions) and pays for it. If he wasn't so determined to see him say Elias' name, he would have killed Clegane.
It is going to be a terrific episode. The ninth episode, likely.
It is going to be a terrific episode. The ninth episode, likely.
He's not.
He knows about Dany, but she is far away. If the war against NIghtwalkers had already began when Dany comes, I can see Stannis accepting that Dany/Aegon have better claim than him and the kingdom has more chance to survive with a Targaryan leading them.
I really doubt it. It makes no sense to kill such an important character as Stannis off screen. Bolton was bluffing and actually his bluff paid off (at-least in short term) considering that Jon Snow got killed in the process
Re Stannis:
Stannis is alive and well in one of the Theon sample chapters.
Yeah just only read that the letter isn't even from Ramsey which makes sense because it contained information about what happened at the wall that Ramsey could impossibly know. Always thought there was something fishy about that letter but never realized what it was.
I see.
I only knew of the the Arya and Tyrion excerpts. Got a link to the Theon sample?
We sure Snow got killed?
Well we can't be sure. He [GRRM] could just be fecking with us, just like with Davos. I hope he isn't. I feel he still has much to do and offer. I'm almost certain he'll die properly at one point, though.
I personally reckon Stannis might go a bit loopy when/if Jon turns out to be AA can go on a bit of a murder-bender.
He is for some time. Of course he will be reborned because he is 'the ice' of a song of ice and fire.
Well I had the theory that Jon is really dead. We all read it in a point of view, okay that might not be ultimate proof that he is dead, he might just be severely wounded I'll grant that. But let's say he is dead. We all know that Melisandre is a red priestess, so she could essentially "resurrect" him and thus make the prophecy true of Azor Ahai being reborn. This would also fit into the perspective that Melisandre actually faked the "pink letter" to get him murdered by his own people. Now only the real Lightbringer is missing somehow.
Of course that's all pure speculation at this point I really have no clue or rather too many ideas where all this is going.
Winds of Winter and A Dance with Dragons aren't necessarily in chronological order. There are parts in Winds that happened in ADWD but weren't included. The two books were originally intended to be one book. So it's not necessarily true. In that sample chapter, it's possible that it happened before other events in ADWD to give it more of an ending.
It's almost painfully obvious that Jon isn't actually dead. Even if he is dead, he's not dead dead. Even though GRRM has tried to portray it as "anyone can die", even he can't kill off certain characters. Jon and Dany might die in the end, but not before they actually get somewhere and do something. Even GRRM has to follow the basic conventions of plots. If he spent hundreds of pages on eventually pointless arcs, that would be... bad.
Wouldn't he be UnJon? I don't like the sound of that, we have enough zombies roaming around as it is. It's definitely a feasible and rational theory, but I'm not convinced he's dead. Rather, the stabs weren't enough to kill him. He was stabbed four times right?Well I had the theory that Jon is really dead. We all read it in a point of view, okay that might not be ultimate proof that he is dead, he might just be severely wounded I'll grant that. But let's say he is dead. We all know that Melisandre is a red priestess, so she could essentially "resurrect" him and thus make the prophecy true of Azor Ahai being reborn. This would also fit into the perspective that Melisandre actually faked the "pink letter" to get him murdered by his own people. Now only the real Lightbringer is missing somehow.
Of course that's all pure speculation at this point I really have no clue or rather too many ideas where all this is going.
Stab 1+2 weren't enough to kill; the cut to the throat "barely touched his skin" (or words to that effect), the second was a dagger in the stomach, neither of these sound like mortally wounding attacks. The third was a stab in his shoulder blade, which came from behind, and the fourth he didn't feel? Perhaps because he had passed out by this point-and is not dead, but dying? Or, by this point, it actually wasn't a blade, and just "the cold"? Maybe the fourth stab was that minor he couldn't even feel it, I don't know. But none of these stabs sound like they hit a vital organ, or that they were enough to have killed him then and there.
I've only read the Theon, Arianne and Tyrion chapters. Not read Arya, Victarion, Barrisan etc.
Theon - https://web.archive.org/web/20120103133022/http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-sample.html
Arianne - https://web.archive.org/web/2013102...rmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/
Loved the Stannis chapter.
Theon - https://web.archive.org/web/20120103133022/http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-sample.html
Arianne - https://web.archive.org/web/2013102...rmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/
Loved the Stannis chapter.
Good point, looking at the content of the chapter I'd say he's not dead anyway. How did Ramsay find out about Mance though? Can't see him or his whores blabbing.
@akash02 thanks a lot.
I really, really dislike it when people try to bring in outside influences like the Bible or mythology to predict events in the book. Pretty stupid imo.
What characters can we see surviving the finale of the books?
For me, not many except Bran (in some kind of bittersweet, tree-dwelling state - so not really alive), Rickon, Cersei (locked away in some insignificant manner in Casterley Rock) and possibly Aegon.
I reckon all the other major characters will kick it at some point or another. Hodor included
Cersei has already been prophecised to be killed by either Jaime or Tyrion though, would be surprised if that doesn't happen.
Only certain survivors in my mind right now are : Sansa, Bran and Rickon
Jon due to R+L=J is almost certainly alive, unless GRRM throws a curveball.
I want to say Arya will make it, but her path is too much intertwined with death and revenge that I could see her dying
Tyrion seems like a goner. I certainly hope Stannis dies- tedious bore.
Aegon- depends on if he's real or not, I still have my doubts as to how he survived. But I guess he doesn't have to be "real", just as long as he can get everyone to believe he is.
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GRRM said that he won't change things even if the fans discover things which they weren't supposed to discover. Pretty much that was his answer in a question which indirectly pointed at R+L = J.
I think that Tyrion is dead cert to survive. I doubt that GRRM will kill all members of any of the big families, and I think that both Cersei and Jame will get killed.
It's not mentioned in the article but I thought the biggest change so far was that bar fight with Polliver and company is where the Hound sustains his mortal wound? Which then means they're either keeping Arya and the Hound together for much longer or they're adding another fight somewhere.
Jaime seems to be on a path to redemption which is why I see him surviving over Tyrion, but I could be wrong.
I just hope they won't keep them together to the point where they make it start to look like The Hound cares for Arya or something, because in the book despite them being together, you knew Arya would get out of there and kill him the first chance she got, meanwhile in the tv show they seem to be making them a "team".
I have a feeling that it might actually be arya in the TV show that kills the hound or injures inflicts the mortal wound on him as revenge for Mika or something like that.
That was my initial thought when I read that they wanted to make Arya a much darker character this season but they did seem pretty chummy at the end of the last episode. I've not really got a clue.
Anyone see the trailer for tomorrow's episode? Could be either this one or next weeks episode when it all kicks off with Joffrey and everything else. Not sure what they have in store for Arya and the Hound though. Figure he'll probably end up getting wounded in dying some other way. It might be them starting to move further away from the books though, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Pretty sure it's this episode. Actually, I am 100% sure. It's going to be great.
Tywin's death should be a good one, too.
Tywin's death should be a good one, too.
It's going to be a bit sad, in a way. As much of a cnut he is, its even better having him there for the times that other people put him in his place, like Tywin last season or Tyrion slapping him repeatedly
The reaction is going to be interesting. I predict initial rejoicing followed by slight disappointment that we don't get to see someone we like slice him up.