Yep, would probably be better for both the TV show and the book readers if they really started diverging from this season on. Personally, I've loved the changes they've made to the book so far, watching the show would be much more dull if I knew exactly what was going to happen. Hopefully those changes give them the confidence to really branch out and do their own thing rather than making a watered down version of what Martin intends to do with the books.
Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?
- Thread starter Massive Spanner
- Start date
That's what it looked like until he said he wanted to marry Sansa to Harry the heir. Until that point he had both the North and Eyrie in his grip. If they get married littlefinger loses control of both so I don't get the thinking behind that. Or maybe he's just doing it out of sentiment towards Sansa
I could talk about this series for hours. Mind boggling scope!
I'm thinking Sansa is Littlefinger's daughter
That's what it looked like until he said he wanted to marry Sansa to Harry the heir. Until that point he had both the North and Eyrie in his grip. If they get married littlefinger loses control of both so I don't get the thinking behind that. Or maybe he's just doing it out of sentiment towards Sansa
I could talk about this series for hours. Mind boggling scope!
The thing with Littlefinger is you never know what he is really up to. He says he wants her to marry Harry, but does he? Is that a way to keep her under control for the time being until he can manipulate her into a position he wants?
I still wonder how much Varys and he have worked together at times or how much of the fact that they both need certain things to happen (ie Cersei to run things into the ground) is just coincidentally part of each of their plans? Is it just both using the other or is there some connection? I tend to lean towards both using each other with both ready to eliminate the other when needed.
I have faith in the writers to come up an interesting approach that is not identical to the one GRRM has planned. No doubt GRRM could help them out with it, too. Obviously it's all going to end with the forces of good prevailing over the forces of evil. But you could have some pretty evil forces of good.
Cat sneak off to get some revenge on Ned for having a bastard son?
Even the thought of being spoiled by a tv show is grim as far as I am concerned. I expect them to stick with the main plot points so I'll have to somehow avoid spoilers until he finally brings out the last book.
I dread a Robert Jordan situation.
True. Littlefinger is probably the character you'd want to trust the least.
I don't think littlefinger and Varys collaborated all that much even if their general aim was to cause havoc in Kings Landing. My theory is that Varys has always known what littlefinger has been upto and has let him get on with it because it suits him as well.
That's definitely a possibility with his age, workload and health. Haven't read Wheel of Time yet, the 14 books freaks me out.
He has just taken the paranoia viruse from the other thread.
I think that it will be the final scene of this season.
So Dragon eggs, gift from Illyrio. Illyrio who is in league with Varys. Did they (Varys and Illyrio) expect them to hatch? Hope they would hatch? or complete shock they hatched?
It gets a lot of flak, but most of that is unjustified for me. Obviously I'm biased because I started reading it 14 years ago and actually had to experience the wait, but I love it.
It's scary to think that GRRM is actually older than Robert Jordan was when he died. Granted, RJ got cancer, but that can hit anyone at that age.
I hope GRRM gives up writing and lives another 100 years.
Exactly. Littlefinger is very good at manipulating others.
They haven't (IMO). Both of them despise each other. Littlefinger is doing things (like killing Joffrey for example) for purely selfish reasons, all very good calculated, but for some things we don't know why he has done so (like in that particular case). Varys on the other hand is even more complicated. He started a war which is wekening Westeros for still unknown reasons. It is possible that he genuinely believes that only a Targaryan king can save the world from the Others and so he has made possible for Aegon to come to the throne. In that case, he is doing it for the greater good. However, we don't know if Aegon is the real Aegon, and if he isn't then Varys is doing it for selfish reasons (possibly Aegon being the son of Master Illyrios and Varys' sister).
HAs Varys even given any hint that he knows the others are coming? I need to re-read the books again and fill some of the details back into my brain.
I wonder GRRM could have held out for a couple of years with the HBO offer but again perhaps it's unreasonable to expect him to turn down the money. Without the pressure of the show he might have written faster.
I think given the fact that he failed to express any sort of surprise at the eggs having hatched when he's talking to Tyrion, I suspect he might have thought there was a chance of hatching. He also follows the red god, so maybe some red priest saw it in the fires and told him. Otherwise the decisions to give Dany the eggs don't make sense to me.
It doesn't matter if he has given. He knows everything on Westeros (and even more) so of course he knows what is happening there. And on the last chapter (epilogue) of last book it became clear (if there was a doubt in the first place) that he has been the dirigent behind everything, including the war. So his motives seems to be to give the throne to Aegon. Why though, is still a guessing thing. I think that his motives are genuine though, which means that Aegon is really Aegon.
Possible, but then again we are talking about beyond the wall and something most believe to be a myth, so not sure how far north Varys' reach carries. It might be a blind spot for him, just as it is for most of the leaders on Westeros. The watch is a convenient place to send your unwanted or for noble sons with nothing else to do (the Stark uncle and Jon Snow), but even then the idea (that those in power south of the wall have) seems to be more about the watch handling the wildlings then protecting against some mythical boogey men. We shall see in the next few books.
Agree that they haven't been working together, he says as much to Ned in a moment that (seems) genuine.
It's also interesting to note that Varys says something along the lines of "God only know what Littlefinger's plan is" to Illyrio (who you'd assume he's being honest with). I think that's interesting in that even though Varys believes he is more devious than Littlefinger he still isn't naive enough to think he knows everything Littlefinger is plotting. I think that's the difference between the two, Littlefinger is much more likely to overestimate his own capabilities than Varys is.
Also, at one point Littlefinger tells Sansa that it is sometimes worth making random moves that might even seem to inconvenience you, just to keep people from guessing your intentions. I think his planned marriage between her and Harry is something along those lines, just a play to keep her from seeing his real plans for her.
I think that he mentions at the moment that something is happening beyond the wall (don't remember exactly when) and also the old Bear send that knight who doesn't like Jon Snow with the hand of that zombie who almost killed him (on the second book he arrives at Kingslanding but Tyrion doesn't like him). It is impossible that Varys doesn't know that. IMO, he has started this war exactly because he knows that only lead by a Targaryan, Westeros can survive.
Boom. And that is exactly the reason why he killed Joffrey (well, played a big part on that killing, of course Tyrells had a part too). It didn't make sense for him to kill Joffrey, they had great relations and he became a very powerful person because of Lannisters. It was a completely random move for him, which just serve to confuse the shit of everyone (including the readers).
Reading the last few pages has made me realise how little of the last 2 books I remember. I have no idea about 95% of the things you are talking about. One of the Karstarks married a Thenn? Wtf?
I think Varys is very happy to work around Littlefinger, even if what Littlefinger does hinders him. Littlefinger seems to think that he has far more power, influence and knowledge than he actually has, whereas Varys comes across as being very acutely aware of what he does and doesn't know, and how this can affect what he can do. In terms of end-game, it's obviously very beneficial for Varys to let Littlefinger think he's this incredibly powerful, knowledgeable person, when in reality Varys knows everything about him.
Just me who thinks Stannis will die in the battle against the Others? Can't see a way for him to survive considering his nature.
He'll definitely die anyway, not sure how though. There's no chance of him actually becoming King and he's way to stubborn to give in to anyone else so...
I wonder how he'll react when it becomes clear that he isn't AA? Bound to be pissed off, yet he seemed to get on quite well with Jon.
Another random question I never figured out: what's the story with Loras? We read that he was nearly dead yet I remember there being some reason to be suspicious about that, no?
Expected oberyn to look a lot more dangerous...the current actor stature reminds me of littlefinger...meh.
Some think its all part of a grand scheme to get him out of the city so that cersei cant choose him as her champion.
I don't think he'll care all that much tbh. I don't think he cares about anything other than taking the throne and Melisandre is just a means to that. I like him though and I'd like to think there's a reason he's still alive.
iirc Cersie provoked him into going to Dragonstone hoping he would get killed. The last we know he's still alive and I wonder if Aegon will use him as hostage.
I give up. I've read the books and my girlfriend hasn't, so I've been doing my utmost to stop her from being spoiled. She managed to spoil herself (and me because I hadn't got to that stage in the books at the time) about the Red Wedding, and then later on she managed to spoil herself about Shae and Tywin, both by browsing tumblr. I've managed to keep Joffrey's a secret, even with her reading about him dying (I said it was bollocks), and now one of our friends has just told her that he dies.
I don't see what the huge deal is, concerning "spoilers". I mean, didn't LOTR become a huge success, even if they were well known books for a very long time. On the other hand, I do understand that the series is not yet finish, AND the twists and turns in the ASoIAF are often a tad more suprising, but thats what happens when someone releases a book and makes it film/series.
Is there any site where they have listed or summarized how the TV series have deviated from the books? Would love to take a good look at that.
ditto
I presume it was during the negotiations of allowing the wildings through the Wall to occupy that stretch of land (the Gift?), but it's all a bit hazy for me too.
So Walder Frey then. He has some kids and grandkids in a bit of trouble up north, but do you think he will get any play in the last two books or was his key play during the Red Wedding about it for him? Will he just get a mention that he died in his sleep of syphillis or will we see him get ripped to pieces (maybe by a Robb Stark with a wolfshead wight should the white walkers make it that far south).
I reckon he'll definitely pay in some form for violating guest rights. The Rat Cook was cursed not because he killed the King's son, but because he killed him while he was a guest, and there are numerous quotes by other characters that guest right is an extremely sacred law. He needs to die a gruesome death.
GRRM pls.
GRRM pls.
He'll probably just die in an unrelated way. Old age or something.
OF course I should have mentioned that it might be Lady Stoneheart who has her revenge upon him.
Hmm, the rat cook could eat only his children. Do you remember three Freys who were guests at Lord Manderly? And then Lord Manderly sending three pies to Lord Frey while somehow during the road those three Freys disappeared? Not a coincidence I think. Lord Frey will eat his own children. And I guess this is only the beginning.