I think it's an editing issue rather than a writing one. I just think there's far too much that we don't need, or if we do need it, it should be a lot shorter. He was very good at developing characters and their stories outside of their POV chapters in the early books, but now it seems like every time one of them as much as sneezes they need a whole chapter.
Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?
- Thread starter Massive Spanner
- Start date
Earliest is next year for TWOW.
I'd regard that as overly optimistic, tbh.
I'm beginning to wonder if he'll ever finish them. I can see both remaining books turning into two parters, like Storm of Swords and Dance with Dragons, and I wouldn't be overly surprised to hear that he's announced that he needs another book on top of that.
Keeping in mind that Daenerys still hasn't moved towards Westeros, Bran still doesn't really know what the feck he's doing, Arya's only just getting to grips with the basics of being a faceless man and is also on the wrong continent, Tyrion's also fecking about on the wrong continent, and Stannis is now essentially fighting the wrong people, he's either going to need to rush everyone's stories along or write more than two books.
Dany will never reach Westeros.
There'll be an absolute shit storm if she doesn't.
Don't see how he's going to wrap things up in two books. Don't know where it's headed.
But if that theory of Jon being Lyanna and the Mad King's is true, then I think that could speed things up massively. Jon marrying Dany and taking back the kingdom. Anyone remember what happened to that Dornish prince that went for Dany's hand? Is he with Tyrion?
But if that theory of Jon being Lyanna and the Mad King's is true, then I think that could speed things up massively. Jon marrying Dany and taking back the kingdom. Anyone remember what happened to that Dornish prince that went for Dany's hand? Is he with Tyrion?
That would just be so shit.
But also so GRRM. Jon will be f*cked too. He may come back to life but he'll be nothing like he was.
Yep. I remember reading that he had originally planned to have the story jump forward by five or so years after the third book, which would have meant skipping over a lot of what happened from affc on and revealing the key developments from that future point of view. I think he changed his mind because it didn't work structurally but that then meant he was stuck having to walk us through events he had originally planned to jump past. Hopefully that problem of trying to paste the timeline together is what led to those editing problems as they should be resolved with the new book.
He sort of got
roasted alive by a dragon.
If you haven't read all of ADWD, don't read that.
I believe that Jon plays a very important role and this is the only theory that makes sense thus far.
Thanks. That was sad considering how his journey was built up
Yeah, some saw it as fairly pointless but I quite liked his chapters. GRRM wrote it well in that any clever reader could tell he was completely doomed from the start, even though he deluded himself into believing he'd succeed.
Haven't read ADWD for awhile so any examples for that?
I get the feeling that GRRM doesn't know how to tie all the loose ends together. As Alex said:
I just feel that the story has gotten way too big to be finished in 2 books.
I liked the Dorne chapters. They were refreshing after all the other stuff. I don't like how they ended. I get where people are coming from, saying that they were pointless. They are. But at least I enjoyed them. It offers us a different view of Westeros that had previously only been referred to in the 3rd person. Cersei didn't really need to be a POV character. I started disliking Dany a long time ago in the books. Sansa is a frustrating read but in the end she finally became a tiny bit better with the whole confidence thing. Sam is also a boring cnut but his journey is leading somewhere.
GRRM is far from a poor writer. He is a writer that does let things carry on a bit and get sour but the world he's created with all that back story, great characters, traditions etc. is just brilliant writing. It's all a hell of a lot bigger now if you look at it from the first book. Very easy to think that GRRM might be in over his head. At least on his own. But kudos to him to keep it going on his own like that. He's writing his name in history with his work.
GRRM is far from a poor writer. He is a writer that does let things carry on a bit and get sour but the world he's created with all that back story, great characters, traditions etc. is just brilliant writing. It's all a hell of a lot bigger now if you look at it from the first book. Very easy to think that GRRM might be in over his head. At least on his own. But kudos to him to keep it going on his own like that. He's writing his name in history with his work.
Alright, I see that he did singlehandedly kill Ned, but it turned out alright, but some cleaning up job had to be done.
Jaime could very well be on anyones death list, but I have a feeling he will elude them all, one way or the other.
Tyrells has played the game right, but yeah. What about Dany, and also, as far as I remember, the Martells has a few feudes of age old with them.
I am pretty sure that she'll come to westeros on the next book. The last book has to deal with the others so I guess 'the game of thrones' things have to be almost concluded by the end of next book.
Jon is Azar Ahai, that is almost certain.
Also, the theory is that his dad is Rhaegar, not the mad King.
Well, the TV show mentioned my favourite character (Ser Duncan the Tall) so they can do anything they want now and I'll be happy.
Can't imagine those Thenn's marrying the the Karstark girl. I thought they we're meant to be the most 'civil' of all the wildlings?
Can't imagine those Thenn's marrying the the Karstark girl. I thought they we're meant to be the most 'civil' of all the wildlings?
He died on a fire though.Well, not in the way that it has been told on the books, but still there are many things that lead people to predict that.Is it? What have I missed now?
I really need to read the books again.
*In* a fire, Summerhall.
I loved reading the Dunk & egg Novellas. I'd recommend to anyone who hasn't read them to get all over it.
I hope after this season (which is based on the best (half of a) book of the lot) they just abandon the books and do their own thing. GRRM will probably never finish the last two on time (if at all), and two seasons dedicated to AFFC and ADWD will probably bore and frustrate everyone to shit. I think they've gone far enough now to be able to plot their own path, with a little help from GRRM maybe.
Yep, they're good distractions when people are waiting for the sixth novel which won't ever come.
I would laugh if that actually happened. All the waiting for her to arrive with the dragons, only for her character to be killed off
I'm super interested to see who will ride Dany's dragons. She will clearly ride Drogon, but who will ride the others? Will anyone?
Jahn Sneuw and Aegon?
The parallels between Jon/Ghost/Visierion are too obvious to miss, but isn't it too easy? When has GRRM ever done anything the easy way? I could see Aegon ride one, though.
I would laugh if that actually happened. All the waiting for her to arrive with the dragons, only for her character to be killed off
I don't know why more people aren't expecting it, it's what Martin does. Also look how far away she is from everything. She herself could fly to Westeros sure but her army? It'd take them forever.
FFS for a minute I thought I was in the wrong thread.
Dany and her dragons will be needed to defeat the white walkers at some point, perhaps
Dany and her dragons will be needed to defeat the white walkers at some point, perhaps
If the Dragons get big enough, she won't need an army.
No because they'll eat her face and she'll be dead.
I don't think most people being on the other continent is that much of an issue if he improves the pacing. Jon Connington went from being in Volantis to taking Dragonstone in one book. When Dany gets back to Meereen she'll have the iron fleet at her disposal to take her army to Westeros. If nothing else, when news reaches her that Aegon has reached Dragonstone she might hurry the feck up.
Agreed on both counts. In fact I'd like to have seen a bit more of Dorne.
But I do wonder if he's taken on more than he can handle. If you look at the number of plot points he still has to resolve I am not too sure he can finish it all in 2 books.
Agreed on both counts. In fact I'd like to have seen a bit more of Dorne.
But I do wonder if he's taken on more than he can handle. If you look at the number of plot points he still has to resolve I am not too sure he can finish it all in 2 books.
Just his whole story and personality. He's shown to be this fairly young man who seems more like an awkward teenager, whose making a dangerous journey with friends telling him to turn back at numerous points. He's insistent that he'll succeed and tame the dragons, but we can see he's screwed for when he actually does it since this series doesn't give us fairytale successes.
Although I agree GRRM is finding it difficult to tie everything together. Hopefully he'll start to do so this book with another war coming, but when you see all the stuff that's still to happen it makes me wonder if three books will be needed to bring everything to conclusion, unless he can convince his publishers to let him write to incredibly long ones.
I really don't get all the Dany hate. What is it about her that pisses people off so much?
Others might be different but I think she comes across as kind of self-entitled most of the time, and she hasn't actually gotten to Westeros after 5 novels. That doesn't really help either.
She's also very ignorant when it come to Roberts Rebellion. Not entirely sure if it's her fault but that annoys me.
Hopefully if she meets Tyrion in the next book, he'll tell her straight what happened in his usual tone. Failing that, we'll see Jaime himself do it when she gets to Westeros, providing her dragons don't roast him immediately. A frank, true revelation of what actually happened could be a great scene.