Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?

Solius said:
That bit at the end with Jaime and Brienne. Where are they going with that? Because he doesn't get captured again. You've got the river bit where they're being chased, maybe it'll be that but I don't know where they'll be going from the bridge.

When they were fighting I thought it was going to be the bit where Vargo Hoat finds them and cuts of Jaime's hand. Don't think Hoat is in the show though.
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Your man who turned up is a character called Locke who will be taking the place of Vargo Hoat. So I guess there'll be no Bloody Mummers, just some a bunch dodgy Bolton men. I guess they thought Hoat would be a bit ridiculous on TV, or maybe they just wanted to have a few more dangerous Bolton men for later.

Anyway, I guess Locke will do all the hand and bear related activities Hoat did before handing them over to Bolton.
 
Solius said:
That bit at the end with Jaime and Brienne. Where are they going with that? Because he doesn't get captured again. You've got the river bit where they're being chased, maybe it'll be that but I don't know where they'll be going from the bridge.

When they were fighting I thought it was going to be the bit where Vargo Hoat finds them and cuts of Jaime's hand. Don't think Hoat is in the show though.
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I think that was them getting captured, and that guy was the Hoat show-equivalent. So he'll lop off Jaime's hand, keep them prisoner for a while, bear pit, escape, end of season.
 
MG said:
I'm actually a bit worried about the quality of the future seasons, because books 4 and 5 really are nothing on books 1-3.
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Wouldn't worry about it too much, I'd imagine they'll have no qualms about changing things from the books if they think it'll be more interesting. I can see a lot of the plots and characters from the later books working better on TV.
 
Solius said:
That bit at the end with Jaime and Brienne. Where are they going with that? Because he doesn't get captured again. You've got the river bit where they're being chased, maybe it'll be that but I don't know where they'll be going from the bridge.

When they were fighting I thought it was going to be the bit where Vargo Hoat finds them and cuts of Jaime's hand. Don't think Hoat is in the show though.
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Yeah this was a bit of a weird one. I hope they're not planning on leaving his hand intact, they'll anger a lot of fans by doing that. The hand needs to go.

Anyway, it was ok, not great, not bad, just ok. Can't help but think we're now a fifth of the way through the series and not much has actually happened though.
 
Made me laugh when Jaime said nobody enjoys the company of a humourless mute, considering he ends up training with Ilyn a lot.
 
Cina said:
Yeah this was a bit of a weird one. I hope they're not planning on leaving his hand intact, they'll anger a lot of fans by doing that. The hand needs to go.

Anyway, it was ok, not great, not bad, just ok. Can't help but think we're now a fifth of the way through the series and not much has actually happened though.
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Some seem to have progressed more than others. Arya and Jaime's storylines in the book trundle on for quite a while in the book before they meet the Hound and Vargo Hoat respectively.

Actually I've been thinking about Arya's storyline. We know where she'll be at the end of the season, and not much happens with her and the hound in the rest of ASoS. I wonder what they're going to do for season 4.
 
I don't get the point of introducing the Reeds in this manner. Liked the book version better. Having no Vargo was an odd decision as well. They put his role mostly into the hands of Clegane (who's not nearly as terrible in the show as he is in the books, far from it).

Queen of thorns was good. For those that have played the board game will like her from that as well.

Overall they've done well so far. Regarding the 4th and 5th book. I actually think they'll translate better onto the screen. Some people might get bored of it but those are the same people that are keeping Two and a Half Men's ratings up.
 
Yeah I thought the bit with Sandor was shown very early on. You've only really got the fight with Beric and then Sandor catching her after she flees and them getting to the Twins before Ep 9.
 
Solius said:
Yeah I thought the bit with Sandor was shown very early on. You've only really got the fight with Beric and then Sandor catching her after she flees and them getting to the Twins before Ep 9.
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Wasn't it mentioned in the books that he basically can't be beaten in a 1v1 duel because he swings a great sword using only one hand? There have been two mentions so far of him being evil. The farmer who pleaded to Ned when he was on throne duty and the time that Baelish told Sansa about how the Hound got his scars. This guy is kind of a brutality myth. Almost everyone is terrified of him.

I just think he's a good character and that the audience is missing out.
 
Cina said:
What's up with Sam, by the way? Are we not doing to get the "Slayer" thing now?
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We'll definitely get it in the next episode. Only really showed him once in the last episode and that was when he started to get tired. The slayer bit happens on the way to Craster's.
 
Yeah was that meant to be Small Paul who was told to look after him?
 
Snow said:
I don't get the point of introducing the Reeds in this manner. Liked the book version better. Having no Vargo was an odd decision as well. They put his role mostly into the hands of Clegane (who's not nearly as terrible in the show as he is in the books, far from it).
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If they introduced the Reeds in the same way as the book they'd have to have done it last season, wouldn't they? It would have meant introducing Reek, which would have meant they wouldn't be able to have the Ramsey/Theon plotline this season, which would mean Theon having nothing to do. I guess they thought they were better off pushing all of that to this season so Bran and Theon would have more to do.

Think this Locke guy will be doing most of Hoat's stuff. In fairness to them it was way easier for them to split Voat's actions between Clegane and Locke(Bolton) rather than introducing a new crazy sellsword group, especially in the same episode they're introducing the BWB. Anyway, Vargo's whole lisping villain thing might have looked a bit ridiculous on TV.

Solius said:
Yeah was that meant to be Small Paul who was told to look after him?
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That guy was the guy Jon Snow threatened in the first season so he wouldn't keep bullying Sam (Rast?). Think he'll be the main mutineer at Craster's.
 
So, Theon will not disappear for a few seasons, they are actually showing us the transformation of him into Reek.

The Margary-Joffrey bit wasn't in the books, but still it was good to watch. Didn't know why they changed the people who got Jaime.
 
What's wrong with introducing them last season? They didn't have to do much anyway, much like Bran. I'm sure people either find Bran's story either interesting or the most dull so far. It's mostly talk for the first three books. Meaning they'd have to introduce Reek would be great as that is an interesting character. We're going to get a fecked up whiny Theon instead. That would however mean a decent cosmetics job which the show has been really poor with so far. No noses missing, no sharp teeth, no hair getting cut or burnt off, Tyrion looks like Chucky.

Vargo's non-presence makes sense but nothing has been made out of it. Clegane is still a non character really. No worse in the eyes of the show watchers than Ser Ilyn Payne. I bet you most people won't recognize the name. Most people will know him as the guy that chopped his horse's head off in the 3rd (?) episode. In the books, Vargo is another mini-villain. In the show there's Joffrey that's the villain and that's about it. Tywin is liked by most and not considered one, Jamie is winning people over, the Hound is surely liked after telling Joffrey to piss off. What is left is Cersei and Petyr Baelish.
That's just my take on things. The books are a lot darker. People need characters to hate and with Joffrey soon gone they'll pretty much only have Cersei left.

Why did Martin have to write so much around Ser Piggy? By far the most boring POV character. Really bland and boring. Nobody likes listening to whining all the time. By all accounts he should have been raped and beaten a lot during his stay at the wall.

I know this seems like a lot of moaning but that's because I don't think there's much need for repeated praise of the show in this thread. It's a great watch of course. Just a bit of ponderment and grievances on my part.
 
They probably won't even remember the Mountain from that because the actor in S2 onwards is different from S1. I agree though, he was the most evil and vile character in the books, even more so than Joffrey, and there's barely been a mention of the man so far.
 
Snow said:
We'll definitely get it in the next episode. Only really showed him once in the last episode and that was when he started to get tired. The slayer bit happens on the way to Craster's.
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I think it happens after the massacre at Craster's Keep but so does Ghost saving his ass I think, actually I thought Ghost saving his ass didn't happen before he meets Cold Hands, come to think of it that was actually Arias wolf or Bran's? Damn I'm confused right now. I think it's time to read the books again.
 
Snow said:
What's wrong with introducing them last season? They didn't have to do much anyway, much like Bran. I'm sure people either find Bran's story either interesting or the most dull so far. It's mostly talk for the first three books. Meaning they'd have to introduce Reek would be great as that is an interesting character. We're going to get a fecked up whiny Theon instead. That would however mean a decent cosmetics job which the show has been really poor with so far. No noses missing, no sharp teeth, no hair getting cut or burnt off, Tyrion looks like Chucky.

Vargo's non-presence makes sense but nothing has been made out of it. Clegane is still a non character really. No worse in the eyes of the show watchers than Ser Ilyn Payne. I bet you most people won't recognize the name. Most people will know him as the guy that chopped his horse's head off in the 3rd (?) episode. In the books, Vargo is another mini-villain. In the show there's Joffrey that's the villain and that's about it. Tywin is liked by most and not considered one, Jamie is winning people over, the Hound is surely liked after telling Joffrey to piss off. What is left is Cersei and Petyr Baelish.
That's just my take on things. The books are a lot darker. People need characters to hate and with Joffrey soon gone they'll pretty much only have Cersei left.

Why did Martin have to write so much around Ser Piggy? By far the most boring POV character. Really bland and boring. Nobody likes listening to whining all the time. By all accounts he should have been raped and beaten a lot during his stay at the wall.

I know this seems like a lot of moaning but that's because I don't think there's much need for repeated praise of the show in this thread. It's a great watch of course. Just a bit of ponderment and grievances on my part.
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The problem with introducing them last season would be twofold.
1. They said they already had a huge amount of characters to introduce in season two without having to introduce the Reeds and Reek as well.
2. The way they're doing it now spreads the plotlines for Theon and Bran more evenly over the next few seasons.

The way they're doing it now:
Season Two: Theon meets the Ironborn again, takes over Winterfell, loses winterfell. Bran loses Winterfell, gets "killed", goes on the run.
Season Three: Theon gets tortured, meets "Reek", possibly goes through the "Kyra" episode described in the book, gets to know Ramsay. Bran meets the Reeds, learns more about his abilities, journeys north.

They way they'd do it if they followed the book:
Season Two: Theon meets the Ironborn again, takes over Winterfell, meets "Reek", loses Winterfell, meets Ramsay. Bran meets Reeds, learns about his abilities, gets "killed", goes on the run.
Season Three: Theon gets tortured, possibly goes through the "Kyra" stuff. Bran journeys north.

There's a more even spread of activity the way they're doing it, plus it allows them to spend more time setting up Reek and the Reeds.

Agree that Clegane is a non character, that's also made worse by them changing actors in season two. I guess they'll set him up better in season four when those Dornish lads come up looking for his head.
 
People will be hating the guts out of the Freys, Roose Bolton and Tywin soon enough. I reckon Joffrey will still be around for another year and a half.
 
Will the RW be this season? Thought it would be in the next season. Perhaps they'll finish this one with it and use it as a massive cliffhanger.
 
sullydnl said:
The problem with introducing them last season would be twofold.
1. They said they already had a huge amount of characters to introduce in season two without having to introduce the Reeds and Reek as well.
2. The way they're doing it now spreads the plotlines for Theon and Bran more evenly over the next few seasons.

The way they're doing it now:
Season Two: Theon meets the Ironborn again, takes over Winterfell, loses winterfell. Bran loses Winterfell, gets "killed", goes on the run.
Season Three: Theon gets tortured, meets "Reek", possibly goes through the "Kyra" episode described in the book, gets to know Ramsay. Bran meets the Reeds, learns more about his abilities, journeys north.

They way they'd do it if they followed the book:
Season Two: Theon meets the Ironborn again, takes over Winterfell, meets "Reek", loses Winterfell, meets Ramsay. Bran meets Reeds, learns about his abilities, gets "killed", goes on the run.
Season Three: Theon gets tortured, possibly goes through the "Kyra" stuff. Bran journeys north.

There's a more even spread of activity the way they're doing it, plus it allows them to spend more time setting up Reek and the Reeds.

Agree that Clegane is a non character, that's also made worse by them changing actors in season two. I guess they'll set him up better in season four when those Dornish lads come up looking for his head.
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I don't agree. They could easily have introduce the Reeds in season 2. Season 2 with Bran were dreams and him sitting in a council with their newly found prison being her best buddie for no reason mentioned.

Of these scenarios, Reek and Ramsay are the most interesting aspects. Theon on his own is just annoying. I cheered when he got caught in the books.

So far the scenes added to the show that weren't in the books have been pretty pointless. They've basically been "hey audience, since you're too stupid to put 2 and 2 together we're just going to show you these 2 guys fecking and also the incredibly stubborn man and the hot red head fecking as well. And look how Maergary is sly towards Joffrey, acting all nice".

My take is that they're playing down the show a bit to compensate and that's not something I like.
 
Snow said:
Will the RW be this season? Thought it would be in the next season. Perhaps they'll finish this one with it and use it as a massive cliffhanger.
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Reference to episode name.

I think it has already been confirmed that it will be this season for episode 9. The episode itself is called Rains of Castamere so it looks all set.

I reckon they may end the season with Lady Stoneheart.
 
Yeah it's more likely to happen at the end of next season, otherwise they'll have to make up some stuff for her to do.
 
The season could end with Tyrion marrying Sansa too. Something big must happen in the season finale.
 
feck knows what will happen really. If the red wedding is episode nine then it's around 300 pages earlier than it should be in the timeline so the writers could be anywhere by then really.
 
Snow said:
I don't agree. They could easily have introduce the Reeds in season 2. Season 2 with Bran were dreams and him sitting in a council with their newly found prison being her best buddie for no reason mentioned.

Of these scenarios, Reek and Ramsay are the most interesting aspects. Theon on his own is just annoying. I cheered when he got caught in the books.

So far the scenes added to the show that weren't in the books have been pretty pointless. They've basically been "hey audience, since you're too stupid to put 2 and 2 together we're just going to show you these 2 guys fecking and also the incredibly stubborn man and the hot red head fecking as well. And look how Maergary is sly towards Joffrey, acting all nice".

My take is that they're playing down the show a bit to compensate and that's not something I like.
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Agree that the Reek/Ramsay scenario is the most interesting but that's essentially what they're doing this season. What would they do with Theon for the next two seasons if they had kept the Reek/Ramsay plot the same as in the book? Martin can have a character like Theon dissapear for a book or two, the TV show can't. So some plotlines obviously have to be streched/brought forward/pushed back.

Same thing with some of the scenes they added. Take, for example, the scene between Littlefinger and Varys in season 1. Obviously we don't get that scene in the books as neither are POV characters, but would it make any sense not to show it on TV? It establishes the relationship between the two characters effectively in one scene, something the book has the luxury to do over a longer period. It's the same thing when they made the relationship between Renly and Loras so obvious. What sense would it make to hint at the relationship when simply showing it is more effective?
 
Scrumpet said:
Where do you think they're going with the Sansa and Littlefinger thing?
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Same as in the book I suppose, give or take. What they're going to do with Ros is more confusing though. What will she do when Littlefinger leaves KL? Her only real purpose seems to be to give him someone to talk to.
 
sullydnl said:
Same as in the book I suppose, give or take. What they're going to do with Ros is more confusing though. What will she do when Littlefinger leaves KL? Her only real purpose seems to be to give him someone to talk to.
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I guess they might have him stick around for a while yet. If he leaves soon we'll not see him for ages given Joffrey's wedding will probably happen in the second half of season 4.
 
Cina said:
End this season with that? Seems awful early to do it, it's the prologue to the entire book after all.
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Well the epilogue is Lady Stoneheart killing Merrett Frey, not the birth of Lady Stoneheart. I reckon the season will end with Beric Dondarrion giving up his life to bring Catelyn Stark back. Think it makes sense for the viewers to see her brought back to life. She then go round killing Freys with the BwB next year.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Well the epilogue is Lady Stoneheart killing Merrett Frey, not the birth of Lady Stoneheart. I reckon the season will end with Beric Dondarrion giving up his life to bring Catelyn Stark back. Think it makes sense for the viewers to see her brought back to life. She then go round killing Freys with the BwB next year.
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Ah I get you, yeah it makes sense to do that I suppose.
 
Dunno makes sense enough to me particularly as they are mindful of the non-reader viewers.

I'm cheating here because the last episode is called Mhysa which means mother in High Valyrian.
 
FT I really think you should spoiler that stuff.

We may have read the books but I for one don't know to know for certain exactly when this stuff will happen in the show, I'd like a bit of mystery.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Dunno makes sense enough to me particularly as they are mindful of the non-reader viewers.

I'm cheating here because the last episode is called Mhysa which means mother in High Valyrian.
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speculation about ep 10 then:

The Mhysa thing is in the books, when Dany conquers Yunkai, that's what all the slave people she has freed chant at her, so it'll probably be that.
 
Scrumpet said:
speculation about ep 10 then:

The Mhysa thing is in the books, when Dany conquers Yunkai, that's what all the slave people she has freed chant at her, so it'll probably be that.
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Fair point! I completely forgot about that among a whole load of other elements of the novels! Just googled the word and tried to put 2 + 2 together.
 
sullydnl said:
Agree that the Reek/Ramsay scenario is the most interesting but that's essentially what they're doing this season. What would they do with Theon for the next two seasons if they had kept the Reek/Ramsay plot the same as in the book? Martin can have a character like Theon dissapear for a book or two, the TV show can't. So some plotlines obviously have to be streched/brought forward/pushed back.

Same thing with some of the scenes they added. Take, for example, the scene between Littlefinger and Varys in season 1. Obviously we don't get that scene in the books as neither are POV characters, but would it make any sense not to show it on TV? It establishes the relationship between the two characters effectively in one scene, something the book has the luxury to do over a longer period. It's the same thing when they made the relationship between Renly and Loras so obvious. What sense would it make to hint at the relationship when simply showing it is more effective?
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I don't agree. Why can't they make him disappear in the show? Why not? People would think he died or something just like when you read the books and poof, he's back.

Varys and Littlefinger have chemistry. They're also interesting characters. They're interest comes mostly from what they say. It didn't really add much besides a witty dialogue. It's quite clear what people think of them and how their relationships with others work. No one trusts them and very few, if any, dare to feck with them.

Joffrey is a one-minded simpleton, Loras hardly speaks in the books and is also one-minded and simple. Renly's best moment in the book was cut out. It didn't need to be obvious to be gay. Margaery could have outed that later.
The Stannis-Melissandre scene was solely for her nudity and/or to dumb it down to the audience. In the book Davos was surprised that she was suddenly pregnant. In the show they show the sex scene pretty much just to try and make it clear when she then spawns that shadow babyman thing. Thought that was uncalled for as it didn't really explain anything. They're relationship is also way more unclear as few people dare to gossip in Stanni's camp, never mind around Davos who's the only POV character from that camp.

Like I said before, I think it all boils down to dumbing it down for the audience because let's face it, people who are the majority of the audience aren't the brightest. HBO should however be above that.
 
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