Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?

Mentioned in the other thread, why the hell they didn't had a single Varys scene until now?

I know that he isn't as much necessary to be shown as some other characters, but he is the most complex character in the story, and the mastermind behind a lot of things, arguably even the war.
 
HBO is interested in money while maintaining enough quality. If they can dumb it down enough yet maintain the overall quality while getting more subscribers they're all for that.
 
Revan said:
Mentioned in the other thread, why the hell they didn't had a single Varys scene until now?

I know that he isn't as much necessary to be shown as some other characters, but he is the most complex character in the story, and the mastermind behind a lot of things, arguably even the war.
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Needed to introduce all the different characters and setup the main characters. Plus the actor was involved in Suits so might have suited his schedule.
 
Revan said:
The season could end with Tyrion marrying Sansa too. Something big must happen in the season finale.
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My guess is something to do with dragons. They love dragons. "Look at our dragons!"
 
Scrumpet said:
I guess they might have him stick around for a while yet. If he leaves soon we'll not see him for ages given Joffrey's wedding will probably happen in the second half of season 4.
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That'll be early season 4 I reckon. So they can shock the audience like with Renly's death. Plus it'll give them enough time to introduce Oberyn Martell then when Joffrey bites it they can use the rest of the time to show why he defends Tyrion and also show Tyrion's trial in enough detail.
Episode 9, Tywin dies and Stannis saves the Night's Watch?
 
I got 125.

Highest one I missed was
Edmure. Lowest I managed was Pyat Pree and Aemon the Dragonknight. Somehow managed to miss Melisandre, I think because I wrote Missandei and thought I already did it.
 
I absolutely hated the TV show. Couldn't make it to the end of season two.

Partly because I kept imagining the hideous actor faces as I was reading A Dance with Dragons. It was a harder task to shake off this imagery for some characters than others, and some I still can't erase from my mind.

I'll just avoid this whole effect from now on. Two more books to come, and hopefully many more Dunk and Egg tales.
 
Scrumpet said:
:lol: which hideous actor faces in particular?
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Well, I don't really mean hideous, so much as not fitting either the description or how I imagined them originally.

And some are really just bad actors, so the summoning of their face while reading can be an unpleasant experience, whether they are truly hideous or not.
 
Moonwalker said:
I absolutely hated the TV show. Couldn't make it to the end of season two.

Partly because I kept imagining the hideous actor faces as I was reading A Dance with Dragons. It was a harder task to shake off this imagery for some characters than others, and some I still can't erase from my mind.

I'll just avoid this whole effect from now on. Two more books to come, and hopefully many more Dunk and Egg tales.
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No way ASOIAF can be finished in two books - not without drastically accelerating the pace of the story-telling, completely unbalancing the structure of the novel, and ditching (rendering irrelevant) a lot of what's happened up to now. Martin has written a lot of IOUs to readers in the first 5 books - if he finishes in 7, he'll have to leave most of them unpaid.
 
Will Absolute said:
No way ASOIAF can be finished in two books - not without drastically accelerating the pace of the story-telling, completely unbalancing the structure of the novel, and ditching (rendering irrelevant) a lot of what's happened up to now. Martin has written a lot of IOUs to readers in the first 5 books - if he finishes in 7, he'll have to leave most of them unpaid.
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I don't think that's a problem. He changes pace quite well. You can see it in almost every chapter that ends with a cliffhanger.

I don't think he'll have a problem with leaving a lot of it unresolved either.

I hope he's concerned more with keeping the integrity of it, than pleasing every reader.
 
We shouldn't forget that 'two books' is really an unknown quantity in terms of length. He could split both of them into volumes like A Storm of Swords.

He can pretty much give himself as much time and space as he likes to finish it off well.
 
In some forums like on reddit it's almost considered a fact rather than just a theory.
 
I twigged that when I read the first book(s) in the nineties, and for years I congratulated myself on knowing something that other, less brilliant readers, didn't. Then, a few years ago, I stumbled on an ASOIAF forum, and discovered that everyone knew it!
 
There's also a very strong case for it if it is to be someone that has already been mentioned in the books somewhere along the way. Remember, the first book was published in 1996. The general plot twist idea is probably at least a couple of years older. That's way before the internet became what it is. The world didn't have this collective mind of digging up truths like it has now. At the time it would have been a great twist but the internet and our general experience from watching TV/movies and reading books has mostly ruined that now.
 
Funny, the whole "Jon's mom" thing seemed so obvious to me the first time I read the books, yet I hadn't a notion who Arstan was before it was revealed. It's so easy to miss the implied plot details sometimes.
 
sullydnl said:
Funny, the whole "Jon's mom" thing seemed so obvious to me the first time I read the books, yet I hadn't a notion who Arstan was before it was revealed. It's so easy to miss the implied plot details sometimes.
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Jon Snow is a much more interesting character than Daenerys. For me I don't payu as much attention or think about her plot as much. She's an annoying teen after all.
 
Snow said:
Jon Snow is a much more interesting character than Daenerys. For me I don't payu as much attention or think about her plot as much. She's an annoying teen after all.
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True, her plot got less interesting as the books went on as well. It's not just her annoying character though, it's the fact that she's spent the books so far removed from everyone else. Jon is definitely a better character, but he has a way more interesting backdrop as well. He gets the wall, wildlings, white walkers, Stannis, Melisandre and now Ramsay. Danaerys is stuck with Qarth, Astapor, Yunkai and characters like Daario. Even if she wasn't annoying she'd still be stuck in the dullest part of the story. Having said that, I quite liked Barristan's pov in the last book.
 
sullydnl said:
True, her plot got less interesting as the books went on as well. It's not just her annoying character though, it's the fact that she's spent the books so far removed from everyone else. Jon is definitely a better character, but he has a way more interesting backdrop as well. He gets the wall, wildlings, white walkers, Stannis, Melisandre and now Ramsay. Danaerys is stuck with Qarth, Astapor, Yunkai and characters like Daario. Even if she wasn't annoying she'd still be stuck in the dullest part of the story. Having said that, I quite liked Barristan's pov in the last book.
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Barristan is a likable character. An honest man who's a great fighter and not stupid. That's always likeable to people with decent morals.

Daenerys also has, 2nd to only to Stannis in beinga a dry character, Jorah Mormont. Or well, she had. He got interesting a bit in ADWD.
 
Cina said:
Yes but the problem is that it's been floating around for 10 years now so even if it's what G.R.R.M originally intended, he probably won't write it that way anymore.
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The way I see it he has two options. Who the readers think it's the mom or who the common character in the book thinks is the mom, i.e. a common wench.
 
Cina said:
Yes but the problem is that it's been floating around for 10 years now so even if it's what G.R.R.M originally intended, he probably won't write it that way anymore.
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Aye that's what the pessimist in me thinks unfortunately. It'll ruin a good story IMO but it will "shock" quite a few people.

Still I guess with 10 years to go around discussing, no wonder some people consider it a fact almost.
 
Snow said:
The way I see it he has two options. Who the readers think it's the mom or who the common character in the book thinks is the mom, i.e. a common wench.
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That's not the only account given by a character in the books.
 
I think he doesn't give two hoots about what some people on the internet have been saying.

If that's the story he had in mind, I think he'll have no problem going through with it, whether westeros.org or reddit called it or not.
 
My only problem with the rhaegar theory is that theres seemingly nothing targarean about jon, had he been blond with purple eyes or even just a bit nutty then fair enough but he isnt. Do we know for sure that Robert Baratheon definitely didn't ever have a go on lyanna stark before she snuffed it? We know he loved her, we also know his seed is strong and jon has dark hair and heavy set features.

I've only read the books once and ive not got an encyclopedic knowledge of them so if I'm missing something obvious be kind in your mockings of me
 
On the extras on the Blh Ray, they have an interview with the TV show creators and the talk about their first meeting with Martin.

They are trying to convince him that they are huge fans of the book and that they can do it justice on the small screen. At the end of the meeting Martin says he has a question "who is Jon Snow's mother". They say they have talked about it with each other and give their answer. Martin smiled wryly and did not confirm or deny their guess.
 
Red_Aaron said:
My only problem with the rhaegar theory is that theres seemingly nothing targarean about jon, had he been blond with purple eyes or even just a bit nutty then fair enough but he isnt. Do we know for sure that Robert Baratheon definitely didn't ever have a go on lyanna stark before she snuffed it? We know he loved her, we also know his seed is strong and jon has dark hair and heavy set features.

I've only read the books once and ive not got an encyclopedic knowledge of them so if I'm missing something obvious be kind in your mockings of me
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Jon looks like a Stark, that is emphasised in the books - unlike the children of Eddard and Catelyn who have more of the Tully look about them - so it would be a surprise if he turned out to be a Baratheon.

It wouldn't make a lot of sense, either. If Jon was Robert's child, Ned could have taken him to the king. He wouldn't have had to raise him as his own bastard, at least not without discussing it with Robert. And he could have told Catelyn.

If he's a Targaryen, on the other hand, then all the secrecy makes sense, for the sake of the boy.
 
Big George is going to decide there's not quite enough incest in the series and tell us Jon is the lovechild of Ned and Lyanna.
 
I think it might be too late to change Jon from being R+L's kid. He pretty much died at the end of the latest book, and I am guessing that everyone near Castle Black will have a shock when they burn his corpse, seeing as we learned earlier, that that's how dragons are born. And also, by being dead and all, he's free from his oath.
 
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