Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?

esmufc07 said:
Just bought the book set off Amazon, hopefully by the time I get through them he may have released Winds of Winter :lol:

Do the books stay high quality throughout or do they dip like the show?
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The fourth and fifth are a lot more meandering and unfocused than the show but are also the exact opposite insofar as where the show tries to really trim down the story, GRRM keeps on expanding it.
 
esmufc07 said:
Just bought the book set off Amazon, hopefully by the time I get through them he may have released Winds of Winter :lol:

Do the books stay high quality throughout or do they dip like the show?
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Unless you plan on reading well into the afterlife thats not happening.

Honestly they dip but not like the show.

The 4th book, so around serie 5 of the tv show, just leaves all the characters bar Arya out because George didn't know what to do with them. Adds a load of Iron Islands and characters no one cares about.
ADwD is better but not great imho.. it drags a fair bit imho.

Winds of Winter will be about 2 pages.

If its anything like the show The Starks have said "winter is coming" for 8 years,
Jon "Thats the winds of winter I feel, better get my..."
Arya "It's Spring again, hard winter".
 
Cheesy said:
The fourth and fifth are a lot more meandering and unfocused than the show but are also the exact opposite insofar as where the show tries to really trim down the story, GRRM keeps on expanding it.
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This is how I feel. I've enjoyed reading 4th and the 5th books. Maybe if you can arrange it and read it by timeline, it's more interesting.
 
fishfingers15 said:
This is how I feel. I've enjoyed reading 4th and the 5th books. Maybe if you can arrange it and read it by timeline, it's more interesting.
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I read them together the first time round, there's a system for doing it chronologically I got from somewhere.
 
Fourth and fifth books did nothing for me whatsoever. (Apparently) another example of an author allowed to shed his editors and it shows. Drivel.

Should have been a trilogy at most like he originally planned.
 
Drainy said:
So much for all the Azor Ahai shit
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Not impossible that it's a load of shite in the books too, what with that whole "prophecy will bite off your cock" spiel. Or, it is true in the books but the show writers randomly decided to throw it out the window because they thought Arya killing the NK was more badass.

That's the really nice thing about the TV show. Between how much it has deviated by choice and how erratic (to be kind) the writing is, it's hard to figure out what's different, what's the same and what's just badly written. Remarkably little of the books will end up being spoiled because we'll never be quite sure if what we're seeing is just some random idea the writers had.
 
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Minimalist said:
Fourth and fifth books did nothing for me whatsoever. (Apparently) another example of an author allowed to shed his editors and it shows. Drivel.

Should have been a trilogy at most like he originally planned.
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I always come back to this. He seems to have ran into problems the second he abandoned this idea. Think he then planned a further trilogy set years later. Think GRRM has said he wrote himself into a corner with the Mereen situation and then had to abandon the trilogy idea.
 
Drainy said:
So much for all the Azor Ahai shit
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Isn't that nice though? The prophecies (like in real world) being a bunch of bullshit. Everyone expected Jon to win the war, instead it was Arya who did it.

Azor Ahai probably didn't exist in the first place anyway.
 
I read the first erm books? Which is a feast for crows again?

Either way, I wildly prefer the show over the books and am still said I spoiled some epic moments in the show by reading the books before they happened.

this only goes for the parts where they overlap. Now that the show is in their own territory, it's been going a bit downhill story wise.
 
Revan said:
Isn't that nice though? The prophecies (like in real world) being a bunch of bullshit. Everyone expected Jon to win the war, instead it was Arya who did it.

Azor Ahai probably didn't exist in the first place anyway.
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Apart from all the ones that happened.

Red Wedding was prophesied, Balon Greyjoy's death etc. Ghost of Highheart is confirmed as reliable. Dany's visions.

Would be a kick in the nuts for the big two (Azor Ahai and Valequer) to be bollocks or not predictable.
 
Drainy said:
Apart from all the ones that happened.

Red Wedding was prophesied, Balon Greyjoy's death etc. Ghost of Highheart is confirmed as reliable. Dany's visions.

Would be a kick in the nuts for the big two (Azor Ahai and Valequer) to be bollocks or not predictable.
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All 5 kings were killed, so what? It was a war, a very likely scenario anyway. Dany's visions, not all of them have yet come true. It is also possible that she is actually pregnant (another prophecy).

I wouldn't mind if the prophecies and religion turn out to be bullshit.
 
If I'm not mistaken GRRM has said himself that he doesn't think much of prophecies. I think there is not a single unambiguous occurrence of a prophecy coming true in the books.
 
I don't think they will all be true, but I also don't think they will be completely abandoned either. People going about looking for signs and convincing themselves prophecies are being fulfilled etc.
 
GhastlyHun said:
If I'm not mistaken GRRM has said himself that he doesn't think much of prophecies. I think there is not a single unambiguous occurrence of a prophecy coming true in the books.
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Absolutely. I don't believe that Joffrey, Robb and Balon dies cause Melisandre did the thing with Gendry. They died cause they made mistakes in their wars.

Azor Ahai, Bran the builder, Lan the Clever etc, are legends, only that. There might have been something for the legend to be based, but nowhere as close as we think (IMO).
 
Yeah, on the other hand, the prophecies always deal with themes which are also part of the different plot lines, so there is always stuff going on in line with one prophecy or another.
 
I enjoyed all the books and didn't really notice any drop off in quality. Did not look for any either tbh. I have completely given up on him finishing the saga though.

I'm reading the Targaryen book now. I like that as well, but it's a completely different thing altogether.
 
Book 4 and 5 have definitely a dip on quality, but that is only because the first three books are so good, with the third one being easily (and by far) the best fantasy book I've ever read. Heck, I've read hundreds of fantasy books and the first three ASOIAF books would all end in my top 5.
 
esmufc07 said:
Just bought the book set off Amazon, hopefully by the time I get through them he may have released Winds of Winter :lol:

Do the books stay high quality throughout or do they dip like the show?
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I liked them all. There certainly isn't a quality drop in terms of the stringent succession of action and consequence. Unlike the show, you never get the feeling that something happens only because GRRM needs a character to be in or get out of a certain situation at a certain time. Still you may or may not like the pace of book 4 and 5 and the introduction of more or less entirely new plot lines. (Which are in all likelihood playing a big role in the delay of the last books.)
 
4 and a 5 are a massive drop in quality from the first 3. D&D did the right thing by not expanding like the books did and instead narrowing the focus for the sake of the show, unfortunately they just did it really badly in a lot of aspects. I think they had an almost impossible job really.
 
I didn't find the last two books to be significantly worse, I enjoyed them all. But as with most series they all kind of blur together into one big book in my mind.
 
Massive Spanner said:
4 and a 5 are a massive drop in quality from the first 3. D&D did the right thing by not expanding like the books did and instead narrowing the focus for the sake of the show, unfortunately they just did it really badly in a lot of aspects. I think they had an almost impossible job really.
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I agree with this.
 
Personally:

Book 3 - Top 1 in the fantasy genre.
Books 1 and 2 - Top 5 in the fantasy genre.
Book 5 - Likely top 15 in the fantasy genre.
Book 4 - Likely top 20 in the fantasy genre.

Essentially they are all great, but the first three are quite better.
 
Massive Spanner said:
4 and a 5 are a massive drop in quality from the first 3. D&D did the right thing by not expanding like the books did and instead narrowing the focus for the sake of the show, unfortunately they just did it really badly in a lot of aspects. I think they had an almost impossible job really.
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Agree with basically all points, however I don't think it was as hard to stick to some basic ASOIAF principles to improve the story telling.

GRRM doesn't protect his characters in plot armor. They don't tend to survive impossible situations. He simply doesn't put them in those situations if it's not their time to die. The TV series has done away with that core tenet of the books since they ran out of book material. which helped maintain a sense of realism and danger in an otherwise fantasy setting and set it apart from other fantasy books. D&D have failed to continue with that. Basically every main character was isolated in a 1v20 with undead nad survived.

Another one is that battle strategies are a lot better researched and represented. They could have written BoW a lot better with the same outcome. The cavalry charge into the unknown and without support, siege machines and phalanx being in front rather than behind the trench... this was literally written by imbeciles.

It's still fun show to watch but by god, the story telling is going down hill so fast.

EDIT: And yes books 1-3 are much better than 4-5
 
Revan said:
All 5 kings were killed, so what? It was a war, a very likely scenario anyway. Dany's visions, not all of them have yet come true. It is also possible that she is actually pregnant (another prophecy).

I wouldn't mind if the prophecies and religion turn out to be bullshit.
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Dany literally sees a man with a wolves head at a feast.

There are different reliability levels of the visions and prophecies in the books but if the big two are a load of shit then I'm not going to be happy.
 
I thought that was incredible but I hope that we get a different story in the books if they are ever released.

They should have used the other white walkers in that episode, had some epic battles with Brienne, Jamie etc. and they definitely should have killed a few big characters. Yeah it was a close call, the dothraki are dead as are most of the unsullied but having all the main characters survive is some major Hollywood bullshit. We expect better from this show.

They have set Arya up to be the ultimate badass, now the only logical move is for her to sneak into kings landing on her own to kill Cersei. After what we have seen her do that should be simple, no need for a huge war.

I am glad she was so heavily involved in this ending as reading the books, I was always left wondering what the point in this is? Surely she's not just a tool to show the reader some of the bizarre cultures of Essos and surely this isn't a simple revenge story. The show is full of injustices so the idea of her simply training to be some super assassin to avenge her family never sat well with me, there needed to be some more purpose to her adventures. Although I do not think it will go this way in the books.
 
esmufc07 said:
How far is Winds of Winter off being finished then? He hasn't even started on the last book has he?
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He thought that he was very close to finishing it at end of 2014. Here we are 5 years later.

He actually wrote a book (in Targaryans last year) and he was hoping for Winds of Winter to be done last year/this year, though the earliest we can realistically hope for is by the end of next year.
 
Art Vandelay said:
Jesus Christ it's almost May 2019 and we're still talking about it being over a year away. He has the Dunk and Egg books to finish too.
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Sure what’s to worry about. Not like he’s 70 and clinically obese. He’ll definitely finish it.
 
Rewatched it again, and despite the idiotic tactics (that's what happen when you have Jon as general), it was a masterpiece. The most intense episode I've ever seen.

Also, Ramin Djawadi is a genius. Was on his GoT concert last year, and I hope he does another tour in the future.

 
Revan said:
Rewatched it again, and despite the idiotic tactics (that's what happen when you have Jon as general), it was a masterpiece. The most intense episode I've ever seen.

Also, Ramin Djawadi is a genius. Was on his GoT concert last year, and I hope he does another tour in the future.

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Yeah just watched it again, the music is by far the best thing about the show in recent years and this episode probably the best for that.
 
Halfway through Storm of Swords now on another re-read. Feck me it's an amazing book.
 
Drainy said:
Apart from all the ones that happened.

Red Wedding was prophesied, Balon Greyjoy's death etc. Ghost of Highheart is confirmed as reliable. Dany's visions.

Would be a kick in the nuts for the big two (Azor Ahai and Valequer) to be bollocks or not predictable.
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Would it? I'm sure many would have complained about the predictability of it all if JS won the war. They might still try to shoe horn it into the last few episodes but I hope they don't. I prefer it this way.
 
ivaldo said:
Would it? I'm sure many would have complained about the predictability of it all if JS won the war. They might still try to shoe horn it into the last few episodes but I hope they don't. I prefer it this way.
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If it fits in with the narrative no-one will care.

R+L=J has been predicted for years and everyone was glad when it was confirmed. Jon's resurrection too.

It is an annoying trend in tv and cinema to subvert expectations just to surprise the audience. It's poor writing and the opposite of what makes the Red Wedding a great twist - it was all predictable in hindsight.

If the Others are defeated in a way that cannot be predicted it will feel cheap - as many think the show did.
 
Drainy said:
If it fits in with the narrative no-one will care.

R+L=J has been predicted for years and everyone was glad when it was confirmed. Jon's resurrection too.

It is an annoying trend in tv and cinema to subvert expectations just to surprise the audience. It's poor writing and the opposite of what makes the Red Wedding a great twist - it was all predictable in hindsight.

If the Others are defeated in a way that cannot be predicted it will feel cheap - as many think the show did.
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There is a large section of viewers who would disagree, as seems to be vogue when it comes to this show now (not to say there aren’t issues, but seemingly everything is an issue). There has been enough foreshadowing, and enough characters have openly doubted the validity of this prophecy for it to be a viable option.
 
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