Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?

FFS, not Brandon Sanderson. The ending would be a bunch of superheroes defeating the Others, and then a final clash of wills between an ascended Jon and Rhllor or whatever.

I hope GRRM finishes them, but if he dies before it, I hope he leaves the books to be finished either by Joe Abercrombie or Daniel Abrahams.

I don't know how you came up with that nonsense. Sanderson was under instruction on how the ending of WoT would unfold, it wasn't his own creation. Same would apply to GoT.

Personally, I'd take Sanderson over Abercrombie or Abraham in a heartbeat cause I like his writing style more. But different strokes for different folks I guess.

EDIT: Although Abraham has worked with GRRM on GoT comic books already so he'd be the most likely candidate.
 
I don't know how you came up with that nonsense. Sanderson was under instruction on how the ending of WoT would unfold, it wasn't his own creation. Same would apply to GoT.

Personally, I'd take Sanderson over Abercrombie or Abraham in a heartbeat cause I like his writing style more. But different strokes for different folks I guess.

EDIT: Although Abraham has worked with GRRM on GoT comic books already so he'd be the most likely candidate.
Every climax of every book he has written was a bunch of overpowered heroes defeating the bad guys while being underdogs in the fights. Mistborn, Stormlight, WoT, Elantris, Warbreaker. Then you have the Vin vs Ruin and Rand vs Shai'tan which are very similar.

Nothing wrong with that, it is his style and those books are epic fantasy. Problem is, it is totally different to GRRM.

And his writing sucks balls (with exception of WoT and the first book in Stormlight), by far his worst thing in his books.
 
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Is it GRRM's decision as to whether the books will be finished if he dies/who gets to finish them?

I'm no writer but I genuinely cannot believe that it is taking him this long to finish them. I am sure plans change alot along the way but surely he has always known how it is going to finish? It seems impossible to write such a detailed story without a thorough plan of where things are going.

What pisses me off is that it has been so long since I read the books that I will need to do a full reread (baring the first book) before the next one comes out and then the same again ten years later when he finally finishes it.
 
Is it GRRM's decision as to whether the books will be finished if he dies/who gets to finish them?

I'm no writer but I genuinely cannot believe that it is taking him this long to finish them. I am sure plans change alot along the way but surely he has always known how it is going to finish? It seems impossible to write such a detailed story without a thorough plan of where things are going.

What pisses me off is that it has been so long since I read the books that I will need to do a full reread (baring the first book) before the next one comes out and then the same again ten years later when he finally finishes it.
I read somewhere that he actually doesn't want anyone finishing it for him. I don't know how long ago he said that or if he's since changed his mind.

From what I understand he had an outline in broad strokes, but not the details and he likes to tinker with details. Everything he writes or changes affects something else so it gets very complicated with all the layers, characters and clues he has in there. If you look at some of the things already hidden and found and the complexity of getting them in there then the longer the series goes on the harder it's going to be to keep all that in sync. The TV show has much less characters, is nowhere near as complicated, has abandoned entire storylines, isn't at all bothered about any sort of logic and the writing still can't keep up. Plus they have a team of writers, GRRM is one man.
 
Thought this too and then I had a convo with my boss, and she is convinced that it is gonna be Arya with his face, which actually would be an even bigger feck you to Cersei than Jaime killing her. Plus Arya didn't kill almost anyone in her list, and Cersei is the most important of them all (bar Joffrey himself).

I think that someone big has to die (in addition to lesser characters next episode), and I cannot see Daenerys, Jon or Tyrion checking out this early. Which leaves Jaime as the top choice (Arya and Sansa are not as important to the story as him). It would be poetic if Brienne falls early, for Jaime to take command of that part of the army, save the day, save Daenerys at the very end while falling himself. The best ending for the best-written character in the show.

I really think that almost everyone who had an emotional scene this episode is a dead man walking.

Bran, Daenerys, Jon, Tyrion, Arya and the Hound are likely to live. Everyone else are up for grabs for dying soon I think.
 
Is it GRRM's decision as to whether the books will be finished if he dies/who gets to finish them?

I'm no writer but I genuinely cannot believe that it is taking him this long to finish them. I am sure plans change alot along the way but surely he has always known how it is going to finish? It seems impossible to write such a detailed story without a thorough plan of where things are going.


I think he fell victim to two separate problems.

First he changed his original plan to just write two trilogies with a five year gap after the third book. A lot has been written on how this messed up his plans and he ended up really struggling in Feast to connect the two trilogies with the quality of his writing taking a big dip as his writing seemed more like filling in an outline than naturally developing.

Then his second flaw was after selling to HBO, gleefully writing episodes for them and doing conventions and publicity instead of finishing the books. This allowed the TV show to overtake the plot in the books and now he is fecked because he probably feels like he now needs to come up with a new and different direction for the ending to the books that doesn't mirror the show (he will probably increase the role and importance of Griff/Young Griff in the books)
 
The worst is not the troll but that part:
Myself, I am hoping that whoever the Giants draft, he spends the year on the bench. Eli Manning is a class guy, and I’d love nothing better than for him to have a great season and lead the Giants to another SuperBowl, making all his detractors eat a big crow pie along the way.

Better stick to writing novels I'd say:lol:
 
Tbf I bet he's tired of all the interviews where people ask him about the show, because he always reminds them that he wrote the books and not the TV show. I'd be pretty pissed and wanting to focus on other projects after that as well.
 
Tbf I bet he's tired of all the interviews where people ask him about the show, because he always reminds them that he wrote the books and not the TV show. I'd be pretty pissed and wanting to focus on other projects after that as well.
Having written 1 book in the series in 14 years, I think people can be forgiven for asking about the show instead. He's lost interest in finishing the series and just wants to work on other stuff.
 
I can kinda sympathise with him in that writing a project on the scale of ASOIAF is genuinely difficult and a huge task - but at the same time he needs to understand that the vast fame he has is pretty much all down to said series, and he should also be aware that he'd have struggled to get a fraction of that fame (never mind an 8-season HBO show) had people known he wouldn't finish. Ultimately most people who have a job have to work to deadlines and the fact he's basically been pissing around for a decade while working on the latest book is fairly dire.
 
The naive part of me is hoping that the delay in book releases is because of the TV show. Perhaps because HBO doesn't want him to put out a different story while the show is still running. But I guess at this point that's not a likely explanation anymore.

Still, even if he for some reason can't or doesn't want to continue writing the story there would be a lot of money to gain for him in giving his manuscripts to someone else to finish?
 
The naive part of me is hoping that the delay in book releases is because of the TV show. Perhaps because HBO doesn't want him to put out a different story while the show is still running. But I guess at this point that's not a likely explanation anymore.

Still, even if he for some reason can't or doesn't want to continue writing the story there would be a lot of money to gain for him in giving his manuscripts to someone else to finish?
I'm waiting for a video of him shouting "Surprise!!!" As he holds the manuscripts for the final two books. And then, smiling and without continually staring into the camera, extending his arm towards a fireplace and throwing both of them into it. Then with one final smile he will proclaim that those were the only copies before jumping into the fire himself and burning to ash.
 
The naive part of me is hoping that the delay in book releases is because of the TV show. Perhaps because HBO doesn't want him to put out a different story while the show is still running. But I guess at this point that's not a likely explanation anymore.

Still, even if he for some reason can't or doesn't want to continue writing the story there would be a lot of money to gain for him in giving his manuscripts to someone else to finish?
He’s a fat old nerd who spends his time writing, going to the local theatre, watch handegg and going to Cons. I doubt money gained is worth it in his mind having his magnum opus associated with another person.
 
I'm waiting for a video of him shouting "Surprise!!!" As he holds the manuscripts for the final two books. And then, smiling and without continually staring into the camera, extending his arm towards a fireplace and throwing both of them into it. Then with one final smile he will proclaim that those were the only copies before jumping into the fire himself and burning to ash.
So he could break the hearts of millions a final time. Beautiful.
 
Spin off from the show thread:
Ah, well we're definitely not getting an explanation then – or at least not one that makes any sense.

I'm not particularly sure we can trust GRRM. He's been involved with the show throughout and given direction to where things will go. For a plot point as huge as the others/whitewalkers (which is let's not forget, what both the show and books started with) I find it almost impossible to believe that GRRM didn't sketch it out. The plot lines of the show seem almost certainly to be taken from GRRM's vision, as he saw it at the time, even if the way the show gets there is necessarily different.

If and when he comes to writes the books he might change his mind and go somewhere different with it, but ultimately I think that's the problem: he's still writing the books. He might know where he wants the story to end (although I'm not sure he does), but he has spent 8 years trying to work out the steps to get half way there. I just think he's created too much of a mess for himself.
I think the White Walkers / Others are a problem for GRRM's writing too. I don't see how he will be able to make sense of them beyond the classical evil incarnate. This is something that clashes with his overall writing style, which is all about giving everybody sensible motives and an agenda based on those. Maybe he manages to pull of some great connection of the three eyed raven/the children of the forest/the walkers that puts everything in a different perspective, but of course it's currently much more likely that it will never come to that point with his slow progress.
 
I think it's no coincidence that there has been very little lore on the Walkers considering the spin off show is apparently all about them. If they give all the answers now they risk ruining their new show before it even starts
 
Spin off from the show thread:

I think the White Walkers / Others are a problem for GRRM's writing too. I don't see how he will be able to make sense of them beyond the classical evil incarnate. This is something that clashes with his overall writing style, which is all about giving everybody sensible motives and an agenda based on those. Maybe he manages to pull of some great connection of the three eyed raven/the children of the forest/the walkers that puts everything in a different perspective, but of course it's currently much more likely that it will never come to that point with his slow progress.

I've only read the first book and about half of the second, so I may be talking out of my arse but I think the others issue is a symptom of the larger problem.

GRRM created a rich, vibrant world with interlinked and complicated lore, but what made it compelling in the first place is making it impossible to finish. The show and GRRM are now strugglingly with that issue in different ways. GRRM is trying to write his way out of it and has ended up with increasingly lengthy books and a project which he might never finish, and the shows relentlessly stripped away at that story to make it manageable.

There's definitely criticisms of what GoT now is that lie firmly at the feet of the showrunners (almost entirely dreadful dialogue being the main one), but they were thrown a hospital pass by GRRM.
 
I don't think he's stuck making them evil incarnate, they are just different and humanity are in the way of their goals. Whatever those are. The show just stopped caring about them outside of them being good for set pieces and stripped them down so much they were a parody. The show cares more about strong female characters giving each other icy stares with bad dialogue and shock value. That's what we're going to get 3 full episodes of now.
 
GRRM has said before he really likes the scouring of the shire in LOTR so I think we'll see something similar in ASOIAF wherein once the Others are defeated there's still further conflict to come afterwards. Because life doesn't resolve itself neatly and all that. But I do reckon we'll get more with the Others in the books, provided GRRM actually manages to write them. Possibly an initial battle at Winterfell then maybe at the Trident.
 
The show getting ahead of the books killed any anticipation of the next book for me. I doubt we will ever get Winds and even if we do we definitley wont get the final book.
 
I think they are definitely getting way past Winterfell in the books. I reckon they are getting at least as far as Harrenhal. I don't think Bran is coming south again either. Also the way Jorah went out, I dunno, I'm hopeful thats reserved for Ser Barristan. One last stand for him against an unbeatable foe. Instead of going out like a bitch in an alleyway.
 
Spare a moment for Jon Snow, 20 years of books to build up to this, him vs the Night King and then he stands idly by while angry ninja teenager gets all the glory.
 
All the bullshitting about Aragorn's tax code and hierarchy of Orcs inside Mordor, GRRM has done proper good with explaining the White walkers. I initially thought the CoTF creating White walkers to combat first men was a slight cop out in itself but hey ho. Don't get me wrong, the Episode 03 was great and the show did a good job of suspense and battle scenes but it feels hollow.
 
I think they are definitely getting way past Winterfell in the books. I reckon they are getting at least as far as Harrenhal. I don't think Bran is coming south again either. Also the way Jorah went out, I dunno, I'm hopeful thats reserved for Ser Barristan. One last stand for him against an unbeatable foe. Instead of going out like a bitch in an alleyway.
I love this guy!
 
All the bullshitting about Aragorn's tax code and hierarchy of Orcs inside Mordor, GRRM has done proper good with explaining the White walkers. I initially thought the CoTF creating White walkers to combat first men was a slight cop out in itself but hey ho. Don't get me wrong, the Episode 03 was great and the show did a good job of suspense and battle scenes but it feels hollow.

I agree, the "we built this for the greater good but now we can't control it" trope is way more predictable than I thought the WW were going to be. Just another invention that got out of hand.
 
Spare a moment for Jon Snow, 20 years of books to build up to this, him vs the Night King and then he stands idly by while angry ninja teenager gets all the glory.

I mean the only reason any of them were even fighting the NK in the first place was because he managed to unite everyone to do so.
 
I mean the only reason any of them were even fighting the NK in the first place was because he managed to unite everyone to do so.

That's fair but the whole story was building to this being Jon's defining moment. His entire story was built around the NK and the WW. He feels to me like he's been relegated to a support character without his moment. Support Dany for the IT, support Arya to stop the NK.

I really enjoyed the episode but I felt it was Jon's place to kill the NK, I always felt reading the books that it was Jon's story.
Really don't see George having it play out like that, not that we'll ever know.
 
That's fair but the whole story was building to this being Jon's defining moment. His entire story was built around the NK and the WW. He feels to me like he's been relegated to a support character without his moment. Support Dany for the IT, support Arya to stop the NK.

I really enjoyed the episode but I felt it was Jon's place to kill the NK, I always felt reading the books that it was Jon's story.
Really don't see George having it play out like that, not that we'll ever know.

Yeah but it's not over yet is it?

Surely his big part is sorting out Dany/Cersei to come.
 
Yeah but it's not over yet is it?

Surely his big part is sorting out Dany/Cersei to come.

He will probably play a big part in that but its just not where I think George would have his story go. From the minute he decided to join the NW he's been all about the White Walkers and the living vs the dead. Jon's always been more tied to that story than the IT imho. I think its more we (possibly George too) don't have a notion where Arya's arc is going outside of revenge (possibly reunited with her mother) and the show needed to use her in the WW story because they have no clue either.

Maybe it was George who decided Arya is the one who gets it done in the end but I still think if we ever see a book it'll be Jon.

Either way I enjoyed the episode and it was probably 2nd only to Battle of the Bastards for me in the shows history.
 
I'm torn on the episode. It was an amazing spectacle but the ending just felt meh. Like @padr81 said, Jon's whole arc has been about the WW yet he was relegated to a side character whole episode.

I just feel the NK should have triumphed and the living had no choice but to retreat and align with Cersei, with Dany having to bend the knee for the greater good .

Considering the build up the final chapter of the Walkers story the episode had very little of the characters that have been involved in that build up. Jon literally sat on the walls of Winterfell for the majority of the battle and the NK did nothing of note aside from stabbing Theon.

I have to hope if we ever get the books that this arc doesn't end on such a damp squib.
 
I was going to write that at least Jon was instrumental in a diplomatic capacity, bringing Dany to Winterfell, integrating the Wildlings into the realm. But then I remembered that Dany's dragon might be the sole reason the WW were able to pass the wall and team living utterly failed at Winterfell, save for Aryas moment of individual heroism - in a way everyone he got there to defend it died a pointless death.
 
Just bought the book set off Amazon, hopefully by the time I get through them he may have released Winds of Winter :lol:

Do the books stay high quality throughout or do they dip like the show?