Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?
- Thread starter Massive Spanner
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just had episode 4 ruined for me, if anyone wants the info let me know and I'll PM
Will Yara get the Falia Flowers treatment now?
Rewatched the episode now, and the ending of it was absolutely magnificent. Lady Olenna's convo with Jaime was really great, and she had the most badass death in the series so far.
So let me understand this. As part of your effort to justify some glaring misses, you say 'This is never part of the show, only a part of the books' to justify some omissions. But on the same hand, if you need some justification for something that's not properly explained in the show, you go 'But doesn't history suggest that this event happened in supplementary reading, never mind the 5 books of ASOAIF'.
Are you this accommodating in the Star Wars and other universe threads?
Ay, go on. I'm a glutton for punishment.
You should be able to post in this thread itself, maybe just use a spoiler tag. We are free for all
Nah, feck that. Someone will inevitably forget to specify their spoiler or will get it wrong, leading to spoilers. Was fine back in the days before the show surpassed the books and we were just discussing adjustments, but I'd rather we weren't posting spoilers for something that hasn't aired.
There's a free for all convo just for this purpose. Post there
Jaime clearly mentioned that Tarly was a capable commander, and emphasized the fact that he was the only general who defeated Robert's army during Robert's rebellion.
So let me understand this. As part of your effort to justify some glaring misses, you say 'This is never part of the show, only a part of the books' to justify some omissions. But on the same hand, if you need some justification for something that's not properly explained in the show, you go 'But doesn't history suggest that this event happened in supplementary reading, never mind the 5 books of ASOAIF'.
Are you this accommodating in the Star Wars and other universe threads?
And yep, I am very accommodating to Star Wars universe. I mean, the 'Grand Army of the Republic' consisted of 1.2m clones, which is around the same as the army of US. For a galaxy that had 10m planets with Corruscant itself having 1 trillion citizens, that is anything but grand. You can nitpick in every story, especially in the big ones, including the ASOIAF itself.
Lady Olenna - what a way to go. Diana Rigg was one of the best actors on the show along with Charles Dance and whoever played Roose Bolton. I kept waiting for her to bring up the demolition of Sept of Baelor when talking to Jaime at the end of episode though. In every scene between Cersei and Jaime I wait for the topic of Tommen. It came up once when Jaime returned to Kings Landing but not a mention since. Show Jaime is already a lot different than the one in books so I don't anticipate rift between Jaime and Cersei until the very end but it still confounds me why he doesn't ask about Tommen. Maybe there's some explanation but I can't think of it.
It still surprises me how Cersei still has people's support - wasn't Margaery loved by everyone? Weren't Tyrells bringing a lot of gold and food to Kings Landing which must have stopped now? Didn't High Sparrow and Faith Militants have a lot of public support, which was why Cersei gave them too much power to bring them to her side? All blown up but people were cheering Euron bringing back Yara, Ellaria and Tyene, even though I understand why they'd love Myrcella.
Just a couple of minutes to mention Euron's sorcery and it would probably satisfy a lot of questions about how he ambushed Greyjoy fleet going to Dorne and the Unsullied ships at Casterly Rock. They've already applied a lot of Victarion's features to him - should have mentioned his best attribute of sorcery as well. Would have obviously loved the mention of Dragonbinder instead of Qyburn borrowing ballista from Peter Jackson but it is what it is.
Thought the scenes between Jon and Dany were great but I never got the impression that either Harrington or Clarke is a terrible actor. They're fine in most of the scenes for me. And I actually like Sam Tarly too
It still surprises me how Cersei still has people's support - wasn't Margaery loved by everyone? Weren't Tyrells bringing a lot of gold and food to Kings Landing which must have stopped now? Didn't High Sparrow and Faith Militants have a lot of public support, which was why Cersei gave them too much power to bring them to her side? All blown up but people were cheering Euron bringing back Yara, Ellaria and Tyene, even though I understand why they'd love Myrcella.
Just a couple of minutes to mention Euron's sorcery and it would probably satisfy a lot of questions about how he ambushed Greyjoy fleet going to Dorne and the Unsullied ships at Casterly Rock. They've already applied a lot of Victarion's features to him - should have mentioned his best attribute of sorcery as well. Would have obviously loved the mention of Dragonbinder instead of Qyburn borrowing ballista from Peter Jackson but it is what it is.
Thought the scenes between Jon and Dany were great but I never got the impression that either Harrington or Clarke is a terrible actor. They're fine in most of the scenes for me. And I actually like Sam Tarly too
arya makes it back to winterfell, Dany dragons and dothraki ambush Lannister army on way back from high garden, bronn downs one of the dragons with that big spear and Jamie tries to kill Dany but the dragon breathes fire and almost kills him but bronn saves him. Sounds epic to be fair, and even if all the above does happen I won't care that I had it ruined
Lady Olenna - what a way to go. Diana Rigg was one of the best actors on the show along with Charles Dance and whoever played Roose Bolton. I kept waiting for her to bring up the demolition of Sept of Baelor when talking to Jaime at the end of episode though. In every scene between Cersei and Jaime I wait for the topic of Tommen. It came up once when Jaime returned to Kings Landing but not a mention since. Show Jaime is already a lot different than the one in books so I don't anticipate rift between Jaime and Cersei until the very end but it still confounds me why he doesn't ask about Tommen. Maybe there's some explanation but I can't think of it.
It still surprises me how Cersei still has people's support - wasn't Margaery loved by everyone? Weren't Tyrells bringing a lot of gold and food to Kings Landing which must have stopped now? Didn't High Sparrow and Faith Militants have a lot of public support, which was why Cersei gave them too much power to bring them to her side? All blown up but people were cheering Euron bringing back Yara, Ellaria and Tyene, even though I understand why they'd love Myrcella.
Just a couple of minutes to mention Euron's sorcery and it would probably satisfy a lot of questions about how he ambushed Greyjoy fleet going to Dorne and the Unsullied ships at Casterly Rock. They've already applied a lot of Victarion's features to him - should have mentioned his best attribute of sorcery as well. Would have obviously loved the mention of Dragonbinder instead of Qyburn borrowing ballista from Peter Jackson but it is what it is.
Thought the scenes between Jon and Dany were great but I never got the impression that either Harrington or Clarke is a terrible actor. They're fine in most of the scenes for me. And I actually like Sam Tarly too
Shut up, Tarly is a capable commander. That's it
It's like we've gone in the other direction, fishy. Instead of half the show watchers complaining "shit filler episode where nothing happened" with book readers laughing at them every week you now have book readers complaining "everything's moving too fast and this doesn't even make sense!" with show watchers telling them "quit it if you don't like it" or "but dragons!" (though only Eboue seems to do this and I don't find his posts worth reading in any forum on Caf). I dunno which one's worse - I've been in both camps! At least Amol still misses everything so there's one constant.
It's just that my inner voice keeps screaming about Tommen and Sept of Baelor in every episode and I dunno how to shut it up.
Lady Olenna - what a way to go. Diana Rigg was one of the best actors on the show along with Charles Dance and whoever played Roose Bolton. I kept waiting for her to bring up the demolition of Sept of Baelor when talking to Jaime at the end of episode though. In every scene between Cersei and Jaime I wait for the topic of Tommen. It came up once when Jaime returned to Kings Landing but not a mention since. Show Jaime is already a lot different than the one in books so I don't anticipate rift between Jaime and Cersei until the very end but it still confounds me why he doesn't ask about Tommen. Maybe there's some explanation but I can't think of it.
It still surprises me how Cersei still has people's support - wasn't Margaery loved by everyone? Weren't Tyrells bringing a lot of gold and food to Kings Landing which must have stopped now? Didn't High Sparrow and Faith Militants have a lot of public support, which was why Cersei gave them too much power to bring them to her side? All blown up but people were cheering Euron bringing back Yara, Ellaria and Tyene, even though I understand why they'd love Myrcella.
Just a couple of minutes to mention Euron's sorcery and it would probably satisfy a lot of questions about how he ambushed Greyjoy fleet going to Dorne and the Unsullied ships at Casterly Rock. They've already applied a lot of Victarion's features to him - should have mentioned his best attribute of sorcery as well. Would have obviously loved the mention of Dragonbinder instead of Qyburn borrowing ballista from Peter Jackson but it is what it is.
Thought the scenes between Jon and Dany were great but I never got the impression that either Harrington or Clarke is a terrible actor. They're fine in most of the scenes for me. And I actually like Sam Tarly too
Jaime briefly says "we never talked about Tommen" or something to that effect in episode 1 but it's never really come up since then. We'll eventually see Jaime stray from Cersei I imagine because they're hinting at it and it's the only decent direction he can go in now, but the problem is that the arc's lost all momentum since they've had a fecking ton of moments for it to happen already. Jaime's return sort of created a rift, but for some reason him freeing Tyrion didn't send Cersei over the edge. Nor did the death of Myrcella. Or Cersei blowing up the sept of Baelor, even though Jaime looked mildly annoyed at it in the same way you're a bit pissed off when someone gets your takeaway food order wrong. Something will tip him over the edge but it's hard for a character to have a redemption arc (which he's sort of already completed by this point) when they're propping up a maniac.
Is he not supposed to be one of the most capable in Westeros? I'm fairly sure by the end of ADWD he's a prominent figure on the small council and is highly valued. And considering he's only made a few appearances on the show so far...it's easy for them to argue that he's the very best in Westeros, considering how separate the two mediums are.
He's quite famously an excellent commander, and one of, if not the best. He was the only person to defeat Robert in battle.
Yeah, would definitely say he's more than just 'capable'.
Which Jaime made certain to mention in the previous episode.
Bran already reached Winterfell and the WW are still marching south? I'm starting to believe they don't actually WANT to cross the wall.
Can they break the wall at the moment? If not, what is the point?
In addition, a host of several hundred thousands zombies (at least) might not be the fastest. From the wall to Winterfell it probably was fast for Bran (Dolorous Edd surely would have given Bran and Meera horses).
It wasn't all serious.. they've been walking south forever.
(But as you mentioned it I'd actually assume they'd be faster than men considering they didn't seem super slow and I guess they don't need to sleep or rest)
Stannis was the finest battle commander in the seven kingdoms, yet he was undone by 20 ninjas and a bastard. Nobody denies that Randyl Tarly has the reputation and a prominent battle commander. His prominent figure is also because a Tyrell bannerman with complete support from High Garden. He's also one of the many bannermen in the Reach who support the Tyrells. There has been many logical points put forth on why such a collapse of a highly provisioned castle won't roll over to the enemy whoever they maybe, but yet the reasons that have been used for justifications have been
1) High Garden is a castle known for it's beauty and not for withstanding assault (When it was in fact pointed out that it was a castle built in the age of Heroes with multiple towers added later)
2) Tyrells are wealthy but aren't a house known for power and fighting (when it was pointed out that they threw their support behind Renly Baratheon they were considered mighty, and when Mace Tyrell's force propped up Cersei Lannister after Margaery Tyrell's marriage to Joffrey/Tommen)
3) Other bannermen defected along with Randyl Tarly (no indication of this anywhere in the show apart from a single minute conversation convincing Randyl Tarly between Jaime Lannister, which is completely unbelievable considering Randyl Tarly would be so angry against Cersei for killing his leige lord Mace Tyrell in the first place)
4) And now, Randyl Tarly is the superest war commander (yes he is, but again, he's one of the many bannermen in the Reach that belongs to Tyrell and has zero effect in affecting a siege of a castle, one that is well provided like High Garden)
Not sure if you are entirely serious with this line of justification. Let's just agree that the show fecked up and move on then.
Probably waiting for the worst of winter to hit!
I didn't understand what Bran was telling Sansa? The actor's terrible delivery made it even harder to decipher, we were given no suggestion as to what he was emoting as he spoke to her.
Otherwise, loved the episode. Some of the complaints in here are horrendously geeky. It's moving far too rapidly now but as someone else said, that's really just a constraint of the medium. I wish we had the time and budget for the show to go through these conflicts as it has others in the past, but we don't. And I'm sure that's hardly helped by the majority of us pirating the show anyway.
Otherwise, loved the episode. Some of the complaints in here are horrendously geeky. It's moving far too rapidly now but as someone else said, that's really just a constraint of the medium. I wish we had the time and budget for the show to go through these conflicts as it has others in the past, but we don't. And I'm sure that's hardly helped by the majority of us pirating the show anyway.
When you think back to how we had entire episodes dedicated to Blackwater and the Wall, it's a shame we couldn't get more for the falls of High Garden and Casterly Rock. Both castles are pretty iconic locations in the history and lore of Westeros.
But the budget is the budget.
I read an interview with the actor who plays Bran the other day and yeah he's deliberately a retard robot now. All of time and space in his head.
Yeah, I think the scene was meant to orchestrate that Bran is no longer an ordinary human, he 'wasn't ready' to be Bloodraven but now he is and there's the whole of time rushing through his head, which has left him emotionless. His interaction with Sansa as she hugs him displayed the same sort of thing. I think the actor is still very crap, though.
Also, it works from a plot-point, Sansa even calls him Lord of Winterfell but he can't accept the title because he's a crazy crackpot who watches people get raped in the past.
Also, it works from a plot-point, Sansa even calls him Lord of Winterfell but he can't accept the title because he's a crazy crackpot who watches people get raped in the past.
They've probably made him so devoid of emotion on the show precisely because the actor is so crap.
Also
Love ya fishy xx
It's too hard to tell when he can't act. I guess they've just been unlucky with that one, compared to some of the others cast. Kit isn't a great actor either, but at least you buy into John Snow and what he's been through.
To be fair the Bran role is much tougher to convey especially with such less screen time and them fast forwarding his character arc. I think he's done a good job for the most part and people are being quite harsh.
Surprised to see so many book readers defending the truly awful writing by D&D in the TV show.
The fact that he has to rely solely on facial expression for his performance also doesnt help. Being all grown up also make viewers feel disconnected from his character.
They are but I'm pretty sure we haven't been to Casterly Rock or Highgarden in the books yet either (Have we?). So the show being brief with them, while not ideal, isn't really betraying the source material.
I would also say that in terms of outcomes of the battles portrayed or not really portrayed in the show, the outcome of these two battles is the pertinent point. For Casterly Rock they decided to show how the unsullied could get past the defenses easily for Highgarden they did not. But in both cases little or none of the actual fighting was shown because it was not needed to express the plot points that were being made. Same with Euron's attack on Yara and Theon, they did not show the battle for each and every ship, they focused mainly on the ship the main characters were on. It is sort of how the medium works.
For some battles there were reasons to show things more in depth in terms of the show they are presenting, for others it is not. And lets face it we also know for any productions cost does come into it, so yeah not ever battle will get the treatment of Blackwater or Battle of the Bastards, both which also involved more directly characters whose story would be affected by their participation in the battle.
Basically it is story telling we see in TV shows, books (though to a lesser extent since as the saying go a pictures paints a 1000 words), movies, no need to spend lots of time on things that are not necessary to the plot or in building the setting, feeling, etc of the story.
Jeez, is anybody complaining that the TV show didn't show Jaime wandering the castle or walking on grass? The entire premise of the battle seems wrong and the outcome seems to come at so little cost to Lannisters that it is baffling. I echo krisjtan here. It's probable that some of you lot didn't read the books or just don't remember the books at all.
Magic and dragons yo.
As Euron put quite succinctly to Jaime in the last episode, "They just love severed heads really." The people of King's Landing will follow basically anyone holding the crown out of fear of punishment, out of blood lust, out of adoration - basically out of anything except actual loyalty. They revolted once when Joffrey was king and the food supplies were low due to the war. Margaery soon tempered that anger and once the war was over food returned to the streets. Not that the show will focus on it because we're past the point of politics really meaning anything to this story, but Cersei can now use the fertile lands of The Reach to flood the capital with food again and regain some actual popularity as opposed to ruling out of fear that she could just press the button again.