Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?

RedSky said:
Well... from my limited knowledge as a tv viewer we've already seen what appeared to be Bran seeing glimpses of the future when he touched the old tree back in Season 4. So if he does have the power of foresight, then why couldn't the White Walkers? It could stand to reason that the White Walkers has the ability to see glimpses of the future (hence knowing about Bran). It's possible right?
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It's not entirely impossible though it would bring a lot of complications with it..
Anyway they would have killed Bran if not for plot armor, right? So how does that fit? Or was it all a big scheme with deus ex benjen being an inside job from the WW and all? And wouldn't BR (or the cotf) have told Bran about the fact that he might bring down the magic of the wall now? Or did THEY want the wall to come down, too? Seems a bit too much of a conspiracy to me.

Gol123 said:
We don't know the exact date that the White Walkers started stirring again. It's implied that it had been happening for a few years prior to the story starting.

They could possibly have sensed Brans birth and started attacking then.

I still don't think they are the bad guys though, so maybe Bloodraven had some involvement in their awakening.
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Not saying there's no connection to Bran of course, there could well be.


Of course there's also the point that in the books we've had a mention of a certain object bringing down the wall.
 
legolegs said:
It's not entirely impossible though it would bring a lot of complications with it..
Anyway they would have killed Bran if not for plot armor, right? So how does that fit? Or was it all a big scheme with deus ex benjen being an inside job from the WW and all? And wouldn't BR (or the cotf) have told Bran about the fact that he might bring down the magic of the wall now? Or did THEY want the wall to come down, too? Seems a bit too much of a conspiracy to me.
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I'd say it was a scheme. They needed Bran to cross the wall to open it up and grant them access. Perhaps its lazy writing on the writers part. But you would think that the Three Eyed Raven would mention to Bran that he's sent for someone to help him (even if he was unaware they were related). You'd also assume the Children of the Forest would mention that Benjen was saved (they may not have known he was a relation).

Instead we get a coincidental rescue from a character related to Bran presumed dead for 5 seasons, who's led him precisely to the location he should not be crossing. A character who should be dead, but was apparently saved by the people Bran had been living with for the past few months (but had failed to mention it). A character that had been called to help Bran by the Three Eyed Raven (with no mention). Who seems to know what Bran had been given visions of despite surely not being able to know that information? A character who conveniently cannot cross the wall until it's destroyed.

But... he's Good because... he's apparently Benjen Stark and helped kill a few Others and escape a death that as far as I know the White Walkers wouldn't have wanted given Bran is the key. It's suspicious. My conclusion. 100% Wolf (thats a Werewolf Game pun).
 
@RedSky, show Benjen may be standing in for a book character called Coldhands who won't be in the show, and who is not evil as far as we know.
 
2cents said:
@RedSky, show Benjen may be standing in for a book character called Coldhands who won't be in the show, and who is not evil as far as we know.
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I'm just looking at what the show tells me. The show tells me that either the Writers are a bit crap and come up with crap dialogue or alternatively, they come up with good dialogue that hints at something. If you assume the writers are careful in what they write then how would you interpret the two scenes we've had with Benjen? (Dialogue and youtube videos at bottom of previous page). You have to admit reading all that and listening to how it says it is pretty fishy.

This also assumes that Bran is the Key of course and the only way the White Walkers can proceed South is marking Bran and having him walk over the Wall. Indiana Jones Last Crusade - Grail type setup.
 
RedSky said:
I'm just looking at what the show tells me. The show tells me that either the Writers are a bit crap and come up with crap dialogue or alternatively, they come up with good dialogue that hints at something. If you assume the writers are careful in what they write then how would you interpret the two scenes we've had with Benjen? (Dialogue and youtube videos at bottom of previous page). You have to admit reading all that and listening to how it says it is pretty fishy.

This also assumes that Bran is the Key of course and the only way the White Walkers can proceed South is marking Bran and having him walk over the Wall. Indiana Jones Last Crusade - Grail type setup.
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Actually I agree your theory is plausible, but I lean in favour of the writers sometimes being a bit crap - certainly since they started running out of book material during Season 5.
 
I think it's a petty good theory @RedSky and I don't know why so many people in the show thread and here are mocking you.
When I watched the episode I immediately wondered why Benjen would lead Bran to the place he shouldn't be crossing but just assumed that he didn't know that the Night King touched him. However now I think your theory makes more sense. I mean there are three options:
A) Benjen didn't know that bran was touched -> seems unlikely because surely he spoke with brand about what happened back in the cave.
B) He knew but doesn't understand the implications of bran being touched-> Seems quite unlikely as well.
C) He knew, understands the meaning and brought them there anyway -> Your theory is true and he works together with the WW.

I only disagree with the notion that he and the WW are the evil guys, I think we'll be in for a surprise as we still don't know what the WW are after and what their endgame is.
 
2cents said:
Actually I agree your theory is plausible, but I lean in favour of the writers sometimes being a bit crap - certainly since they started running out of book material during Season 5.
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Funny. I think the show has picked up well since it moved beyond the books and allowed the show creators to shape the plot in their way.

GRRMs final two books in the series are rubbish. Can't see his final ones being much better either given his struggle to finish them.
 
RedSky said:
I'm just looking at what the show tells me. The show tells me that either the Writers are a bit crap and come up with crap dialogue or alternatively, they come up with good dialogue that hints at something. If you assume the writers are careful in what they write then how would you interpret the two scenes we've had with Benjen? (Dialogue and youtube videos at bottom of previous page). You have to admit reading all that and listening to how it says it is pretty fishy.

This also assumes that Bran is the Key of course and the only way the White Walkers can proceed South is marking Bran and having him walk over the Wall. Indiana Jones Last Crusade - Grail type setup.
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This would be my bet, comparing various storylines and scenes to the book equivalent they tend not to stack up well.

Your theory is possible, Bran bringing down the wall or breaking the barrier seems likely even.
But benjen seems to be a replacement for coldhands and ... it just doesn't seem likely really,
the character book readers have been introduced to just seems an unlikely candidate.
Its hard to imagine Bloodraven or one of the Children of the Forest not warning him and it would be a bit of a turnaround for Coldhands to be an agent of the WW.
Would seem vaguely silly if the Night King has that level of foresight.
Could be that bloodraven, children of the forest etc are all working for the WW, thats a fairly popular theory actually
(though them getting killed by them doesn't do much to support the theory).
 
Minimalist said:
Funny. I think the show has picked up well since it moved beyond the books and allowed the show creators to shape the plot in their way.

GRRMs final two books in the series are rubbish. Can't see his final ones being much better either given his struggle to finish them.
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I would say you're right in terms of the story moving forward. But in terms of dialogue and characters I can't agree - compare for example Tyrion's horrible scenes with Grey Worm and Missandei to how great he was in King's Landing. Not to even get into the Dorne fiasco.
 
Writing and dialogue have been terrible for a while now in the show..

Let's assume it was a scheme from the WW and they never intended to kill Bran.
Then we have Bloodraven and the cotf left. Considering they knew the WW could get into the cave now, we have to assume that they know if the mark can bring down the wall aswell. Both didn't tell Bran anything about that. Considering both knew that was where he would be going we have to assume that the WW, the cotf and Bloodraven all want the wall to fall. Of course that is IF Bran is the key.
Leads to the question did they all work together or did everyone work on his own. I think we can be pretty sure that not all 3 of them worked together because in that case there wouldn't have been any need to kill the cotf and Bloodraven. They could have just told Bran to return to the wall.
So I guess they haven't been working together. But if they knew the NK would use Bran to bring down the wall and that's what they wanted aswell, what was their plan? Why did they bring Bran to the cave knowing that once he gets marked the NK+WW would kill them?

I don't know but with all the talk of the horn I can still see it bringing down the wall. Not sure if the timeline works with Bran being the key in the books anyway.. though of course that depends how long it'll take for the wall to come down.. that being said Bran will pass the wall probably next episode but do we really expect the invasion already to start? There are another 2 seasons left.
 
Kasper said:
I think it's a petty good theory @RedSky and I don't know why so many people in the show thread and here are mocking you.
When I watched the episode I immediately wondered why Benjen would lead Bran to the place he shouldn't be crossing but just assumed that he didn't know that the Night King touched him. However now I think your theory makes more sense. I mean there are three options:
A) Benjen didn't know that bran was touched -> seems unlikely because surely he spoke with brand about what happened back in the cave.
B) He knew but doesn't understand the implications of bran being touched-> Seems quite unlikely as well.
C) He knew, understands the meaning and brought them there anyway -> Your theory is true and he works together with the WW.

I only disagree with the notion that he and the WW are the evil guys, I think we'll be in for a surprise as we still don't know what the WW are after and what their endgame is.
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Lets assume for a moment that Benjen is a good guy. Why would the Three Eyed Raven call for him? The only reason he'd do that is after Bran was marked as he was expecting the Walkers to attack. So lets assume that the Three Eyed Raven said "I need your help come here at once".

Ok, fair enough. So Benjen rides to help him. Now this is the bit for me that doesn't really make sense... so lets assume the orders were vague. Benjen happens to run into Bran and Meera just as they were about to be killed and saves the day. Alright, mighty big coincidence but ok. Benjen knew Bran was the Three Eyed Raven though when they first met, how did he know that? Sensible conclusion is the Three Eyed Raven told him. So lets rewind.

Three Eyed Raven must therefore have told Benjen to come to help, he told him Bran is the new Three Eyed Raven. But if he didn't know they weren't related how would he tell them who Bran was "a crippled boy and a girl?". That seems far fetched to me, so the only explanation is the Three Eyed Raven must have known Benjen was related to Bran. But if that was the case then why did he never mention to Bran that Benjen was still alive? Why not mention he sent for him?

It could be bad writing, but things don't really add up in Benjens story. There are too many holes in his explanation. Then when you watch the second scene and his expression when he said Farewell and I cannot pass. Just doesn't fit.
 
legolegs said:
Writing and dialogue have been terrible for a while now in the show..

Let's assume it was a scheme from the WW and they never intended to kill Bran.
Then we have Bloodraven and the cotf left. Considering they knew the WW could get into the cave now, we have to assume that they know if the mark can bring down the wall aswell. Both didn't tell Bran anything about that. Considering both knew that was where he would be going we have to assume that the WW, the cotf and Bloodraven all want the wall to fall. Of course that is IF Bran is the key.
Leads to the question did they all work together or did everyone work on his own. I think we can be pretty sure that not all 3 of them worked together because in that case there wouldn't have been any need to kill the cotf and Bloodraven. They could have just told Bran to return to the wall.
So I guess they haven't been working together. But if they knew the NK would use Bran to bring down the wall and that's what they wanted aswell, what was their plan? Why did they bring Bran to the cave knowing that once he gets marked the NK+WW would kill them?

I don't know but with all the talk of the horn I can still see it bringing down the wall. Not sure if the timeline works with Bran being the key in the books anyway.. though of course that depends how long it'll take for the wall to come down.. that being said Bran will pass the wall probably next episode but do we really expect the invasion already to start? There are another 2 seasons left.
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Do we know for sure that they were all aware of the implications? I'll go watch that bit again, video in spoiler below:

Apologies for going into depth, you should have seen me when Lost was still on :lol:

 
We only really know Bloodraven knows because he was the one to say it to Bran. It seems highly unlikely that the children wouldn't know though.
But yeah in theory I guess you could actually be right and he could have play them all. He could have sensed Brans birth and started the WW invasion, have him brought to the cave and get him marked so the WW could kill the last children, then get him back to the wall to bring down the wall.
Leaves us with the question what the children were after and why BR had to be killed.

Mh, not saying it's completely impossible. We know so little about the cotf and Bloodraven.. just pointing out some potential problems with the theory.

Besides don't worry, if you want to see what's really in depth visit the forums of westeros.org :lol:
 
Episode 5:

Bran: "He saw me, the Night King he saw me."
BloodRaven: "He touched you."
Bran: "I don't know, he was close, but..."
BloodRaven: "He touched you, he knows you're here, he'll come for you."
Bran: "But he can't get in."
BloodRaven: "He can now his mark is on you. You must leave, all of you."
Bran: "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to."
BloodRaven: "The time has come."
Bran: "The time for what?"
BloodRaven: "For you to become me."
Bran: "But, am I ready?"
BloodRaven: "No."



No mention of Benjen, no mention of the Wall. Would have to go back and look at Brans schooling but it doesn't seem like he ever mentions it. BloodRaven doesn't mention calling for aid either... he just goes straight into the pastvision thing with Bran.
 
JustAFan said:
Okay what is Benjen now really? Alive? Alive but only due to magic? Zombie but not under the White Walkers control?
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My opinion is he's an agent of the White Walkers. He's not an Other/Zombie, he's something else.

- White Walkers share the gift of foresight like the Three Eyed Raven.
- They knew Bran was a Stark and was going to become the next Three Eyed Raven.
- They also knew that Benjen Stark was a ranger.
- They captured Benjen Stark and turned him into an Agent of Evil.
- They then made up a bullshit story for Benjen, who "rescues" Bran and Meera, feeds them a load of bullshit, instant trust.
- Bran is then escorted back to the Wall instructing him to go back, thus removing the magical barrier.
- White Walkers happy bunch can now travel South, Brans an idiot and has been played.

The only questionable part of this theory is the first three lines as we don't know they have the gift of foresight. But if you don't believe this theory then you have to believe that everything that's happened so far is purely chance and the White Walkers are going to be able to pass through the Wall because Bran happened to get the Mark and happened to bump into Benjen before being killed by others who happened to take him back to the wall and thus destroying the barrier.

Personally I trust the dialogue more and the dialogues telling me that Benjens a filthy liar.
 
RedSky said:
Lets assume for a moment that Benjen is a good guy. Why would the Three Eyed Raven call for him? The only reason he'd do that is after Bran was marked as he was expecting the Walkers to attack. So lets assume that the Three Eyed Raven said "I need your help come here at once".

Ok, fair enough. So Benjen rides to help him. Now this is the bit for me that doesn't really make sense... so lets assume the orders were vague. Benjen happens to run into Bran and Meera just as they were about to be killed and saves the day. Alright, mighty big coincidence but ok. Benjen knew Bran was the Three Eyed Raven though when they first met, how did he know that? Sensible conclusion is the Three Eyed Raven told him. So lets rewind.

Three Eyed Raven must therefore have told Benjen to come to help, he told him Bran is the new Three Eyed Raven. But if he didn't know they weren't related how would he tell them who Bran was "a crippled boy and a girl?". That seems far fetched to me, so the only explanation is the Three Eyed Raven must have known Benjen was related to Bran. But if that was the case then why did he never mention to Bran that Benjen was still alive? Why not mention he sent for him?

It could be bad writing, but things don't really add up in Benjens story. There are too many holes in his explanation. Then when you watch the second scene and his expression when he said Farewell and I cannot pass. Just doesn't fit.
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Ok, for your theory benefits, you need to know the history of Coldhands (if you haven't read up on it already)

When Bran, Meera and Jojen start their journey to the three eyed raven beyond the wall, they come to a place called Nightfort. They come here because they do not want to go to Castle Black because they'll be identified by Jon Snow and because Jojen has a green dream that someone will come and help them out in this castle. When they arrive at this castle and sleep in the kitchens, Samwell Tarly climbs up a well that seems so deep that there is no end to it. Sam then tells Bran that there is someone who showed him this way and wanted Bran, Jojen and Meera to go past the wall, and there's a secret door hidden inside the well that will only open to a member of the night's watch.

Sam leads the three past the door to the other side of the wall and meet Coldhands. Coldhands then says he can't come to the other side because of the magic of the wall. Coldhands rides an elk and it's dressed as a member of the night's watch. He's also cold and Summer doesn't like to come near him. Bran finds out by warging that he kills members of the night watch, but those guys turn out to be the mutineers at the Craster's keep. He fights off wights and successfully takes the three to the Bloodraven. Bran discovers that Coldhands is dead and cold, but has black eyes instead of the blue eyes and seems intelligent unlike the other wights. No theory is given on how this is possible. He definitely seems to be under direction from the Bloodraven to bring Bran to him and it's quiet possible that the children of the forest did something to him to prevent him from becoming another normal wight.

GRRM has refuted theories that Coldhalds in Benjen Stark as widely believed by the readers. Wall always had magic against wights and the Others.

Just letting you know that Bloodraven is Brynden Rivers, a guy who's at least 150 years old. He's a Targaryen Bastard who served as the hand of the king during the Blackfyre rebellions. He was forced to take the black after killing a Blackfyre heir to the throne and was said to be lost from the wall while doing the ranging stuff beyond the wall. Bloodraven is the last greenseer and he has said that he has waited for Bran to come and take his place. Leaf (Children of the forest) says to Bran that he still lives for the sake of men and the realms of men to find Bran and teach him the greenseer stuff to Bran. Since Children of the forest do want to defeat the Others, it's highly unlikely that Bloodraven/Brynder Rivers is in league with the white walkers to lure Bran beyond the wall, have him marked and then send him south.
 
RedSky said:
My opinion is he's an agent of the White Walkers. He's not an Other/Zombie, he's something else.

- White Walkers share the gift of foresight like the Three Eyed Raven.
- They knew Bran was a Stark and was going to become the next Three Eyed Raven.
- They also knew that Benjen Stark was a ranger.
- They captured Benjen Stark and turned him into an Agent of Evil.
- They then made up a bullshit story for Benjen, who "rescues" Bran and Meera, feeds them a load of bullshit, instant trust.
- Bran is then escorted back to the Wall instructing him to go back, thus removing the magical barrier.
- White Walkers happy bunch can now travel South, Brans an idiot and has been played.

The only questionable part of this theory is the first three lines as we don't know they have the gift of foresight. But if you don't believe this theory then you have to believe that everything that's happened so far is purely chance and the White Walkers are going to be able to pass through the Wall because Bran happened to get the Mark and happened to bump into Benjen before being killed by others who happened to take him back to the wall and thus destroying the barrier.

Personally I trust the dialogue more and the dialogues telling me that Benjens a filthy liar.
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Playing Werewolf games has spoilt you, my sweet summer child.
 
RedSky said:
My opinion is he's an agent of the White Walkers. He's not an Other/Zombie, he's something else.

- White Walkers share the gift of foresight like the Three Eyed Raven.
- They knew Bran was a Stark and was going to become the next Three Eyed Raven.
- They also knew that Benjen Stark was a ranger.
- They captured Benjen Stark and turned him into an Agent of Evil.
- They then made up a bullshit story for Benjen, who "rescues" Bran and Meera, feeds them a load of bullshit, instant trust.
- Bran is then escorted back to the Wall instructing him to go back, thus removing the magical barrier.
- White Walkers happy bunch can now travel South, Brans an idiot and has been played.

The only questionable part of this theory is the first three lines as we don't know they have the gift of foresight. But if you don't believe this theory then you have to believe that everything that's happened so far is purely chance and the White Walkers are going to be able to pass through the Wall because Bran happened to get the Mark and happened to bump into Benjen before being killed by others who happened to take him back to the wall and thus destroying the barrier.

Personally I trust the dialogue more and the dialogues telling me that Benjens a filthy liar.
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I don't think this is such a bad theory. I said exactly the same to the missus when he kept urging Bran to the wall, no mention of the mark and what it did already to the children's magic. The whitewalkers were created as a weapon against man it seems, so why wouldn't the process do the same to him? They either have the horn to bring down the wall, or the magic barrier has to go.

I've just finished the books so might as well post in here now, though I barely post in the other one nowadays anyway. Although I've already forgotten most of what I read, the last couple of books seemed like a drag to get through tbh.
 
fishfingers15 said:
Ok, for your theory benefits, you need to know the history of Coldhands (if you haven't read up on it already)

When Bran, Meera and Jojen start their journey to the three eyed raven beyond the wall, they come to a place called Nightfort. They come here because they do not want to go to Castle Black because they'll be identified by Jon Snow and because Jojen has a green dream that someone will come and help them out in this castle. When they arrive at this castle and sleep in the kitchens, Samwell Tarly climbs up a well that seems so deep that there is no end to it. Sam then tells Bran that there is someone who showed him this way and wanted Bran, Jojen and Meera to go past the wall, and there's a secret door hidden inside the well that will only open to a member of the night's watch.

Sam leads the three past the door to the other side of the wall and meet Coldhands. Coldhands then says he can't come to the other side because of the magic of the wall. Coldhands rides an elk and it's dressed as a member of the night's watch. He's also cold and Summer doesn't like to come near him. Bran finds out by warging that he kills members of the night watch, but those guys turn out to be the mutineers at the Craster's keep. He fights off wights and successfully takes the three to the Bloodraven. Bran discovers that Coldhands is dead and cold, but has black eyes instead of the blue eyes and seems intelligent unlike the other wights. No theory is given on how this is possible. He definitely seems to be under direction from the Bloodraven to bring Bran to him and it's quiet possible that the children of the forest did something to him to prevent him from becoming another normal wight.

GRRM has refuted theories that Coldhalds in Benjen Stark as widely believed by the readers. Wall always had magic against wights and the Others.

Just letting you know that Bloodraven is Brynden Rivers, a guy who's at least 150 years old. He's a Targaryen Bastard who served as the hand of the king during the Blackfyre rebellions. He was forced to take the black after killing a Blackfyre heir to the throne and was said to be lost from the wall while doing the ranging stuff beyond the wall. Bloodraven is the last greenseer and he has said that he has waited for Bran to come and take his place. Leaf (Children of the forest) says to Bran that he still lives for the sake of men and the realms of men to find Bran and teach him the greenseer stuff to Bran. Since Children of the forest do want to defeat the Others, it's highly unlikely that Bloodraven/Brynder Rivers is in league with the white walkers to lure Bran beyond the wall, have him marked and then send him south.
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Yeah but i'm not saying Bloodraven is Evil? I'm using Bloodraven to prove that what Benjen is saying is bullshit.
 
Just rewatching some of the best bits. The ToJ scene really was incredible. The music and cut to Jon was just :drool: Possibly my favourite scene in the whole series.
 
RedSky said:
Yeah but i'm not saying Bloodraven is Evil? I'm using Bloodraven to prove that what Benjen is saying is bullshit.
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It comes down to whether or not Benjen is actualy coldhands. Coldhands seems to have been sent by the bloodraven to bring them to him. Benjen could still be a version of him, just poorly written like a lot of the tv show is compared with the books.
 
Cina said:
Just rewatching some of the best bits. The ToJ scene really was incredible. The music and cut to Jon was just :drool: Possibly my favourite scene in the whole series.
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The baby was ugly though. Had the face of a 40 year old.
 
RedSky said:
Yeah but i'm not saying Bloodraven is Evil? I'm using Bloodraven to prove that what Benjen is saying is bullshit.
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Your theory has holes and it comes to a question of whether Coldhands and Benjen Stark are the same. Book readers believe that they are two different characters and the show has a tendency to merge two characters into one. Edric Storm and Gendry as Gendry, Sansa Stark as Jeyne Pool and Sansa Stark etc.

In the books, Coldhands delivers Bran to the Bloodraven to become a greenseer. If the show has merged both characters, it's just a hastily written ploy wherein Benjen Stark is Coldhands himself and he was under direction from Bloodraven to protect Bran when it comes to his escape.
 
Redlambs said:
Benjen could still be a version of him, just poorly written like a lot of the tv show is compared with the books.
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Certainly possible. I am obviously assuming that the Dialogue actually means something. It could all just be poorly written but if you watch the clips again thinking he could be Evil, some of the things he says certainly makes you doubt him.

I might be simply basing the theory on the writers actually being intelligent.
 
RedSky said:
Certainly possible. I am obviously assuming that the Dialogue actually means something. It could all just be poorly written but if you watch the clips again thinking he could be Evil, some of the things he says certainly makes you doubt him.
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As I said, that thought crossed my mind as well. I believe in the books it'referenced a few times that the wall has magic, we've now seen the night's king break that magic. It is entirely possible Bran crossing the wall fecks that too.

As Fingers says though, so many characters have been merged and rewritten (for example, Stannis) that we can't say for sure. I did notice a couple of times though that the camera shows to Benjen's hands deliberately, so he could actually be a bastardised Coldhands and in the books that character is highly unlikely to be evil.

I think your theory has merit though, personally.
 
Redlambs said:
As I said, that thought crossed my mind as well. I believe in the books it'referenced a few times that the wall has magic, we've now seen the night's king break that magic. It is entirely possible Bran crossing the wall fecks that too.

As Fingers says though, so many characters have been merged and rewritten (for example, Stannis) that we can't say for sure. I did notice a couple of times though that the camera shows to Benjen's hands deliberately, so he could actually be a bastardised Coldhands and in the books that character is highly unlikely to be evil.

I think your theory has merit though, personally.
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If the Night's King did find the location of the bloodraven and killed him and the children of the forest by marking Bran, then he doesn't need a Benjen Stark to save Bran and take him to the wall, he may as well take himself and cross the wall and be done with it.
 
fishfingers15 said:
If the Night's King did find the location of the bloodraven and killed him and the children of the forest by marking Bran, then he doesn't need a Benjen Stark to save Bran and take him to the wall, he may as well take himself and cross the wall and be done with it.
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Or just let him escape, not even send any zombies after him. But I guess having a Benjen to ensure survival against the elements improves the odds of Bran making it to the wall.
 
fishfingers15 said:
If the Night's King did find the location of the bloodraven and killed him and the children of the forest by marking Bran, then he doesn't need a Benjen Stark to save Bran and take him to the wall, he may as well take himself and cross the wall and be done with it.
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Very true. Then again a lot seems to happen now just because it makes for talking points.

Speaking of which, what was the point in all that Margery playing the Sparrow stuff? They make it seem like she has some grand plan then (like most things in the show) it just literally goes up in a puff of smoke leaving the feeling that it was all pretty pointless. A bit like Stannis.
 
legolegs said:
It's not entirely impossible though it would bring a lot of complications with it..
Anyway they would have killed Bran if not for plot armor, right? So how does that fit? Or was it all a big scheme with deus ex benjen being an inside job from the WW and all? And wouldn't BR (or the cotf) have told Bran about the fact that he might bring down the magic of the wall now? Or did THEY want the wall to come down, too? Seems a bit too much of a conspiracy to me.


Not saying there's no connection to Bran of course, there could well be.


Of course there's also the point that in the books we've had a mention of a certain object bringing down the wall.
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The horn sounds dumb and I don't buy it.
 
RedSky said:
Yeah but i'm not saying Bloodraven is Evil? I'm using Bloodraven to prove that what Benjen is saying is bullshit.
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The thing is, you've built a theory on dialogue written by the show writers who are shite and have no understanding whatsoever of subtlety.
If he was evil and trying to trick bran then they probably would have had him cackle or have a big nasty smile as he walks away.

It might be a theory worth following up on if you read some of sams chapters, followed by brans.
GRRM does tend to foreshadow quite a bit so you might find something
 
Redlambs said:
In the show when Sam finds the dragon glass, there's also a horn. I've always assumed that was a little wink from the show and blowing it off entirely. Pardon the pun :)
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In the books too, the horn is present and Sam takes with him to Oldtown. The other horn possessed by Mance Rayder in the books is a fake horn found in a giant's burial ground.
 
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