Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?

It might be the mark on brans arm that let's the walkers through the wall but my first thought was that treeman is the guy keeping the magic barrier up there, which is why they need to kill him.

I'm thinking they might just leave bran and make a beeline for the wall. All the main characters just left so it seems pretty clear those remaining will soon be making a tragic last stand.
 
Revan said:
Holy feck! Did anyone know that there is essentially an another wall in Essos, which was build to defend against the Demons? And that they have the equivalent of the Nights Watch, in addition to having had the hero on the Long Night.

What if Daenerys never comes to Westeros, but she will lead humans in Essos, while Jon will do the same in Westeros. They are both the prince who was promised, Azar Ahai etc.

There are so many things I have completely missed despite that I've read books twice.
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You mean the Five Forts? As far as I can recall its in TWOIAF and not the books themselves, so we are safe there.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
You mean the Five Forts? As far as I can recall its in TWOIAF and not the books themselves, so we are safe there.
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Yep, the Five Forts.

If it isn't even mentioned in the books, then yep, we are safe there. I guess it will only explain while the religion born in Ashai seems to know quite well about the Others invasion (which I always thought happened only in Westeros) and have completely similar legends to Westeros (the Others = demons, Wall = Five Forts, equivalent of Nights Watch, The Last Hero = Azar Ahai, they also have the equivalent of the Night's King etc), but won't have a role in the next books.

Saying that, Martin has been influence from Jordan's Whee of time, so (WoT spoiler):

The invasion of the darkness is helped by Shaarans, a civilization barely mentioned in the books

Of course, that happened only in 2012 (a few years after Jordan's death), but apparently it was planned from the very beginning, and Martin had many conversations with Jordan, so he probably knew about it.[/quote]
 
Simbo said:
It might be the mark on brans arm that let's the walkers through the wall but my first thought was that treeman is the guy keeping the magic barrier up there, which is why they need to kill him.

I'm thinking they might just leave bran and make a beeline for the wall. All the main characters just left so it seems pretty clear those remaining will soon be making a tragic last stand.
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What magic barrier are you talking about? The Wall's or the cave's? Bloodraven has nothing to do with either, in any case. The children of the forest are responsible for both. He's only about 140 years old, the Wall is a few thousand.
 
Revan said:
Yep, the Five Forts.

If it isn't even mentioned in the books, then yep, we are safe there. I guess it will only explain while the religion born in Ashai seems to know quite well about the Others invasion (which I always thought happened only in Westeros) and have completely similar legends to Westeros (the Others = demons, Wall = Five Forts, equivalent of Nights Watch, The Last Hero = Azar Ahai, they also have the equivalent of the Night's King etc), but won't have a role in the next books.

Saying that, Martin has been influence from Jordan's Whee of time, so (WoT spoiler):

The invasion of the darkness is helped by Shaarans, a civilization barely mentioned in the books

Of course, that happened only in 2012 (a few years after Jordan's death), but apparently it was planned from the very beginning, and Martin had many conversations with Jordan, so he probably knew about it.
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Martin has mentioned that his world is round and when you look at the map and how the northernmost parts of Westeros are heading to the west until they disappear in uncharted territory, you could make the case that they eventually connect with the easternmost parts of Essos. It's no surprise then that Ashai has all kinds of stories and fears of the Long Night and Slaver's Bay for example doesn't.
 
Scarecrow said:
Martin has mentioned that his world is round and when you look at the map and how the northernmost parts of Westeros are heading to the west until they disappear in uncharted territory, you could make the case that they eventually connect with the easternmost parts of Essos. It's no surprise then that Ashai has all kinds of stories and fears of the Long Night and Slaver's Bay for example doesn't.
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Yep. However on the other side, there might be a continent on the east of Essos. Martin has never told if it is a continent, an island, or maybe it is Westeros.

However, I doubt that that the Five Forts were put there just for no reason. At least, they are there to show that the Others invaded the entire world, not only Westeros and that the fight is global, not only fight of a continent.

Edit: also that mysterious girl who said to Daenerys, that in order to go west you have to go east.
 
Revan said:
Yep. However on the other side, there might be a continent on the east of Essos. Martin has never told if it is a continent, an island, or maybe it is Westeros.

However, I doubt that that the Five Forts were put there just for no reason. At least, they are there to show that the Others invaded the entire world, not only Westeros and that the fight is global, not only fight of a continent.
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I watched a pretty good youtube video that goes into this theory (that the world is connected and the invasion was not only in westeros). I could try to find it later when I'm not on the phone, if you are interested.
 
Scarecrow said:
I watched a pretty good youtube video that goes into this theory (that the world is connected and the invasion was not only in westeros). I could try to find it later when I'm not on the phone, if you are interested.
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Yep, if you find it, post it here.

There might be something there. We know that the Long Night was a global event, but then only the Westeros and Ashai know about the Others invasion. They are essentially the two farthest point in the world from each other. Or maybe they aren't and instead are very near each other, which would explain some things.
 
Iirc the only thing that pertains to this Yi Ti legend in the books is when Arya walked into the House of Black and White, she saw a man with lion's head amongst the many statues (Lion of Night). Think I read that off wiki.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Iirc the only thing that pertains to this Yi Ti legend in the books is when Arya walked into the House of Black and White, she saw a man with lion's head amongst the many statues (Lion of Night). Think I read that off wiki.
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Also when Dany sees traders from Yi Ti with monkey caps in Vaes Dothrak markets.
 
Revan said:
Bran is going to be Bran the builder, right? Or at least heavily influence him.
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I noticed this illustration of him apparently from one of the DVD box set features... something interesting about it.
2990210-bran-the-builder.png

Also GRRM said this:

"No one can even say for certain if Brandon the Builder ever lived. He is as remote from the time of the novels as Noah and Gilgamesh are from our own time."

It's probably nothing but I like it :)
 
Shamwow said:
I noticed this illustration of him apparently from one of the DVD box set features... something interesting about it.
2990210-bran-the-builder.png

Also GRRM said this:

"No one can even say for certain if Brandon the Builder ever lived. He is as remote from the time of the novels as Noah and Gilgamesh are from our own time."

It's probably nothing but I like it :)
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GRRM has always said that the legends might be just legends (similar in real world). Either just related a bit to reality, or complete nonsense.

GRRM is very influenced from real history.
 
Revan said:
GRRM has always said that the legends might be just legends (similar in real world). Either just related a bit to reality, or complete nonsense.

GRRM is very influenced from real history.
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I'm just excited after that guys story from being in the lift and holding the door for GRRM so now everything he says has a hidden meaning.
 
Revan said:
Yep. However on the other side, there might be a continent on the east of Essos. Martin has never told if it is a continent, an island, or maybe it is Westeros.

However, I doubt that that the Five Forts were put there just for no reason. At least, they are there to show that the Others invaded the entire world, not only Westeros and that the fight is global, not only fight of a continent.

Edit: also that mysterious girl who said to Daenerys, that in order to go west you have to go east.
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Could it explain why Dany has taken the piss getting to Westeros. She's meant to protect Essos? Jon Westeros ..
 
Scarecrow said:
What magic barrier are you talking about? The Wall's or the cave's? Bloodraven has nothing to do with either, in any case. The children of the forest are responsible for both. He's only about 140 years old, the Wall is a few thousand.
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Didn't realise that, can't remember the Bloodraven background. Why were the walkers so intent on killing him then? Seemed like they were after him more than they were Bran/the children.
 
Simbo said:
Didn't realise that, can't remember the Bloodraven background. Why were the walkers so intent on killing him then? Seemed like they were after him more than they were Bran/the children.
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No background info on the show.

On the books, it is clear that he is Brynden Rivers, a Targaryan bastard who sided with Targaryans during the civil war between Targaryans and Blackfyres around a century before the events of A Game of Thrones. He served as Hand of a King, and Master of Whispers. He had a similar spynet like Varys in addition to probably being gifted on magic (which would explain his greenseer abilities). Later he was sent to the Wall as part of the honorary guard that was sent with Aemon Targaryan (aka Master Aemon) and after some time became Lord Commander of the Wall. Then he just disappeared.

He's actually a very important character in Dunk and Egg novellas, and seems a very gray character.

It was never mentioned in the books that he is really Brynden Rivers, but the evidence on that theory is even bigger than that for R+L=J.
 
Revan said:
Yep, if you find it, post it here.

There might be something there. We know that the Long Night was a global event, but then only the Westeros and Ashai know about the Others invasion. They are essentially the two farthest point in the world from each other. Or maybe they aren't and instead are very near each other, which would explain some things.
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The bit I was talking about starts about 6 minutes in. The whole video is worth a watch though. It doesn't tell us much we don't know but it's an interesting summary and analysis.
 
Revan said:
It was never mentioned in the books that he is really Brynden Rivers, but the evidence on that theory is even bigger than that for R+L=J.
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Its mentioned in the dunk and egg books (well worth a read incidentally).
His greenseer abilities are referenced in a round about way too - his knowledge is attributed to his spy net
 
caid said:
Its mentioned in the dunk and egg books (well worth a read incidentally).
His greenseer abilities are referenced in a round about way too - his knowledge is attributed to his spy net
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Think its not explicitly mentioned that the old man in the cave that Bran meets is Brynden Rivers, but its as good as canon that its Brynden Rivers.
 
fishfingers15 said:
That would be a tremendous cop out lolzy
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Agreed. I really don't want that to happen. Caveat it with 'yeah but closed-loop' and it still comes across so lazy to me. I just don't see how it works without diminishing so much great stuff the books have built up.
 
harshad said:
Think its not explicitly mentioned that the old man in the cave that Bran meets is Brynden Rivers, but its as good as canon that its Brynden Rivers.
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I thought it was explicitly said he was bloodraven (which is the same thing)?
 
Scarecrow said:


The bit I was talking about starts about 6 minutes in. The whole video is worth a watch though. It doesn't tell us much we don't know but it's an interesting summary and analysis.
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Nice video, although as you said there is not much new information there.

I really like the theory that Westeros and Essos are very near each other if we look from the other side. If they are connected it would make sense those wall like structures on the far east of Essos, despite that in the center and far west, no one has any idea about the Others. Martin said that Essos with Westeros aren't connected, but if the entire point was to make this secret, then he was going to say this anyway. He also speaks a bit in duality, so it might be that they are disconnected somehow like Europe and Asia. The fourth continent might be Westeros (from east-Essos point of view) and GRRM has been very careful on explaining that.
 
caid said:
Its mentioned in the dunk and egg books (well worth a read incidentally).
His greenseer abilities are referenced in a round about way too - his knowledge is attributed to his spy net
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He's called Blodraven there, but he is never mentioned to be the same as the Bloodraven of Bran.

Obviously, the evidence for that is too big. 1000 eyes, him becoming Lord Commander and then vanishing, him being a mage, etc.
 
harshad said:
Not sure. From what I remember it was the appearance and the reference to him having a thousand eyes and one in DWD that made people realise that its Brynden Rivers in the cave.
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"I wore many names when I was quick, but even I had a mother, and the name she gave me at her breast was Brynden." (ADWD, Bran 3)
To be fair it's just the first name which is why one could still argue that it has never been actually confirmed but it's as good as it gets I guess.


Btw there's a post on reddit regarding the Hodor-incident that seems legit. Says GRRM was asked if it goes down like that in the books and that's his answer (not sure if a spoiler is needed but anyway):
He said that his name reveal in the books will differ in the context and how it happens. So while the name will still mean the same thing (Hold the Door), it will be very different from the show's reveal. He said he came up with the name idea in 1991 and seemed depressed that the show got to reveal it before he did. He said he had no one to blame but himself for his slow writing. https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/4kruq7/spoilers_everything_got_to_hear_grrms_thoughts_on/
 
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So, anyone expecting:

The return of Benjen Stark,

in the next episode?
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Seems it will happen, but to what ends? He was never a really important character in the books, aside from Jon's longing.
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Yep, but it looked to me always that his story is unfinished. Him is possibly the only one who can save Bran now (although, I think that the Nights King might just allow Bran to pass the wall).
 
harshad said:
The actor playing Benjen is listed in the cast for the next episode as 'Brother beyond the Wall.'
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Meh. Both him and the actress who plays Catelyn have been listed multiple times in various web sites, with nothing happening.

However, I think that there is a good chance that this time it will be for real. Who can help Bran bar him, Coldhands (which will look very weird in the show) and possibly Meera's father (which would look an ultimate deus ex machina)
 
Revan said:
Meh. Both him and the actress who plays Catelyn have been listed multiple times in various web sites, with nothing happening.

However, I think that there is a good chance that this time it will be for real. Who can help Bran bar him, Coldhands (which will look very weird in the show) and possibly Meera's father (which would look an ultimate deus ex machina)
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Didn't know the actress who plays Catelyn Stark was listed as a cast member. Hopefully this is legit. They may just kill Benjen while he's helping Bran and add close that storyline also.
 
I hate the entire time travel / predestined / affecting the past bullshit. I was okay with Bran able to see past visions but I hate the fact that some of the things only happened because Bran travelled into the past. I hope this is the end of his time traveling adventures although I did like the fact that we got to see more of the past.

It increasingly feels as if we're approaching the conclusion of the series which is a good thing as there are only 15 episodes left (?). The reveal of the origins of Others, the Hodor story, Rickon coming back, Benjen coming back, Sansa and John uniting, Stannis, Roose, and a few others dead, the TOJ scene, it all is coming together now. Hoping that the 6th book is out before 2017 though.
 
I finished reading these books last month. Actually finished 1-3 last summer, but after reading the first three or four chapters of AFFC, put it down until March, a bit disillusioned with where it looked to be going. Then I found this - http://boiledleather.com/post/25902554148/a-new-readerfriendly-combined-reading-order-for-a . Basically, someone has arranged the chapters of AFFC and ADWD in the most suitable order so they can be read together. Obviously it's a long slog to get through both of them together but it actually works really well, I'd certainly recommend it.
 
2cents said:
I finished reading these books last month. Actually finished 1-3 last summer, but after reading the first three or four chapters of AFFC, put it down until March, a bit disillusioned with where it looked to be going. Then I found this - http://boiledleather.com/post/25902554148/a-new-readerfriendly-combined-reading-order-for-a . Basically, someone has arranged the chapters of AFFC and ADWD in the most suitable order so they can be read together. Obviously it's a long slog to get through both of them together but it actually works really well, I'd certainly recommend it.
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The 4th and 5th books aren't that boring that you have to create a custom order to get through them. I was way too invested in the storyline to slow down in reading the books. Took me about a week each for the two books. Some of the Brienne and Sansa chapters were boring though.
 
I don't buy that Jon Snow is a prophesised saviour. I don't buy that The Others are bad guys either. I don't even buy that there will be a big war in the end of the book series.

There are three things we know about GRRM.

1) He's a hippy
2) He was unlucky in love
3) He hates clichés in fantasy

The first is shown all throughout the book series. Its essentially an anti war piece which highlights the monsters within humanity during war. There are no heroes and there are no good guys. He bangs that over your head with a lead mallet all of the time because he is a hippy and like a hippy he wants people to know his views on things.

The second is also shown. Any character with any sort of love interest or is driven by love is murdered brutally and/or their image of love and their love is destroyed brutally. It makes sense for a guy whose ex girlfriend cheated on him with his best friend.

The third he has stated all of the time in almost every interview he has. He hates the whole "Good guys team up to fight the big bad guys behind a prophesised hero" cliché and said he didn't want to write a story about that. That's why it is very unlikely that any character in his books are actually anything more then what they are in the books and there probably wont be some great battle against the evil Others and their undead army. Or if there is, he will do it in a way that makes the readers shift their opinions on humanities goodness in this conflict.

Also, The Others being human makes sense. Humans have mated with The Others in the book and its pretty impossible to mate and breed with a different species then your own.

Another little thing for people. GRRM's other work is Sci Fi. aSoIaF is his first ever published series that is not Sci Fi. in all of his other series as well (Which he has stolen a lot of things from to use in aSoIaF) hive minded races are predominantly the "bad guys" so to speak. Rather, hive minded races are always in direct conflict with humanity. The only hive minded race in his current series are The Children of the Forest. Make of it what you will.
 
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