Aah, dammit. I shouldn't have come here. Now I am tempted to congratulate the guy who spotted that connection...
Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?
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What did you say?
He told everyone that Oberyn was a "minor character" near the start of Season 4.
Yeah man. Also that Jaime was not a cnut.
So I guess, nothing at all. It was a fecking injustice.
After constant reminders there's still someone speculating on next episodes trailer in the other thread 
And he's just said that Lyanna is probably having Rhaegar's kid.
Guy's a genius
Has any of the R+L=J stuff been eluded to, strongly or subtly, in the show? Because if it hasn't, that guy has connected some invisible dots.
I can't remember any scene where Lyanna being held in a tower by Rhaegar is mentioned explicitly in the show.
I can't remember any scene where Lyanna being held in a tower by Rhaegar is mentioned explicitly in the show.
They've actually started spoiling things on themselves without our help.
Once they piece together R+L=J, or the show tells us, is there anything even left to be spoiled for TV viewers?
The future...
The future...
Once they piece together R+L=J, or the show tells us, is there anything even left to be spoiled for TV viewers?
The future...
Lady Stoneheart would be the big one if they do it, but if not then it's only really smaller plotlines: Jaime perhaps going to the Riverlands, for example. Apart from that, can't think of much.
Littlefinger sort of gave an indication that Rhaegar didn't rape Lyanna when he was in the Winterfell catacombs with Sansa. All he did was make a face when Sansa said it though, you'd need to be a book reader to read anything into it.
EDIT: Fecking hell they're really struggling with the spoiler policy aren't they
Littlefinger sort of gave an indication that Rhaegar didn't rape Lyanna when he was in the Winterfell catacombs with Sansa. All he did was make a face when Sansa said it though, you'd need to be a book reader to read anything into it.
EDIT: Fecking hell they're really struggling with the spoiler policy aren't they
So Littlefinger despite only being a boy during the war, doesn't have a relationship with Ned or anyone else who was there or in King's Landing for that matter who could piece it together, somehow knows about Jon's true parentage but doesn't know Ramsay Bolton is a psychopath...
Nevermind the fact that no other character, including the ones who were much closer to the situation like Jaime, Catelyn, Barristan and Robert appear to have a clue that Jon is anyone but who Ned claims him to be.
I don't disagree with you as that was what the scene was clearly trying to portray. I just find it baffling that they chose Littlefinger of all people to be the one on the show who knows the truth, or if he doesn't know about Jon, at the very least knows that the two eloped together. Even that in itself is strange as he didn't know any of the parties involved.
Ages since I read the books, am I right in thinking Euron goes off looking for Dany with the intention of marrying her?
Sends Victarion off to do it for him, but near enough!
Right... Doesn't Victarion hate him? Ugh, if there's one thing about the next book I'm not looking forward to, its all the re-reading I'm gunna have to do, I don't have the time!
Yep I agree with you.
They won't ever give an explanation as to why Littlefinger somehow knows the truth, but if they did it would be "something something little birds something".
It's being rumored that in the show, there is no Victarion but just Euron playing the role of Euron + Victarion.
Either that or Yara will take up aspects of Victarion's role plus her own.
Don't know where to check cast members but If Victarion is not featured this season, it's probably the former.
They've actually started spoiling things on themselves without our help.
Honestly, if I was Cina I'd lock the thing and feck the lot of them.
Littlefinger doesn't know about Jon. That scene didn't suggest that. He was simply reacting to the notion that Rhaegar raped Lyanna which he obviously knows or believes is not true, just like many other people (it's been questioned by several characters). I think it's a public secret that they simply ran away together and it was mostly Robert that insisted on the "kidnapping" thing. The others just went along because it was a good "reason" to start and justify a rebellion by painting the Targs as monsters. It's got nothing to do with Jon though.
Most of them are probably secret book readers and/or the sort of person who reads up on all the forums and websites about theories and speculation. Then they can call themselves a genius when it happens.Once they piece together R+L=J, or the show tells us, is there anything even left to be spoiled for TV viewers?
The future...
It's fun watching them spaz over any sort of speculation you wonder if they have fights with themselves everytime their brain starts thinking about what might happen.
They also seem quite impatient to have every new character explained in detail from the moment they appear in the show.
They also seem quite impatient to have every new character explained in detail from the moment they appear in the show.
That is correct. Ever since I came across that R+L=J theory on internet I make sure I do not post any speculation in that thread because there has been absolutely no mention of this in the TV series.
Started reading the books again. Have to say I appreciate the books even more as I'm reading it the 4th time.
I have read the books but can't remember this Tower of Joy thing, can someone remind me what it is and where it is in the books?
The deaths of Ned's father and brother at the hands (more or less) of the Mad King then pretty much sealed Stark participation in the rebellion am I remembering correctly? They had gone to King Landing to try and settle the issue of Lyanna's "kidnapping" but the Mad King did not take kindly to their efforts.
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It's in A Game of Thrones, Ned is remembering it while in jail. It was when he, Howland Reed, William Dustin, Ethan Glover, Martyn Cassell, Theo Wull and Mark Ryswell go to rescue Lyanna from the Tower of Joy, to find Gerold Hightower, Oswell Whent and Arthur motherfecking Dayne guarding it. It is also my favourite bit of writing from the entire series:
“I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them.
“We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered.
“Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell.
“When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.”
“Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”
“I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.”
“Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne.
“Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.”
“Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell.
“But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.”
“Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.
“We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold.
Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three.
“And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.
“No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.”
“We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered.
“Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell.
“When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.”
“Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”
“I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.”
“Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne.
“Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.”
“Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell.
“But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.”
“Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.
“We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold.
Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three.
“And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.
“No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.”
Only Ned and Howland survived, the implication being that Howland Reed is the only living person who actually knows what happened with Lyanna (e.g. R+L=J). On reflection given that only one loyal man was sent with the queen and Viserys, and yet 3 of the best of the Kingsguard were ordered to guard Lyanna, it's all the more likely that what was being guarded was the secret Targaeryan legacy.
Thanks
'The Kingsguard does not flee'
'We swore a vow'
Couldn't be clearer than that.
'We swore a vow'
Couldn't be clearer than that.
Yes, everybody pretty much hated Aerys but Rhaegar was pretty much universally adored before "kidnapping" Lyanna. Robert (and Tywin and Aryn) didn't just want to overthrow the king but destroy the entire Targaryen dynasty. And they had been ruling for quite some time, so I imagine a lot of the small folk and houses were on their side. There was no place for a beautiful love story between Rhaegar and Lyanna at that time. Especially since the King-to-be was openly in love with her.
I re-watched the trailer for episode 3 and there seems to be some sort of psuedo agression when the guy playing young Ned delivers the line. I hope it comes off better in the actual episode.
The issue was that Rhaegar was already married and have children with Elia Martell, the marriage concocted by Aerys which also greatly offended Tywin Lannister. The Targaryens practice polygamy but by the time of Aerys's rule it's pretty much fallen out of favour and marriage for the presumptive heir is all about political leverage. Even if Robert and Lyanna weren't engaged, the relationship was still a no go because of Dorne.
However, their polygamy practice also settle the legitimacy of Jon's parentage. He's the rightful heir of the Targaryen dynasty, a great irony given that he's been under the impression that he's a bastard who stands to inherit nothing all his life.
The Targs also liked to keep their marriages in the family.
Yeap, purity of bloodline and all that, their practice of polygamy is also speculated to be a by-product of their incest, in order to produce a healthy heir, although I believe Martin has never confirmed it.
Oi, the same rules about trailers and future episodes apply here too. Just because we can discuss the books doesn't make future episode stuff exempt.
What? If you read this thread, we've posted so much about the Lyanna theory that any discussion on spoilers is all but useless. This is ridiculous, it's a book thread. And considering the series will contain spoilers for us book readers, we should also think about insta ban for serial watchers and non book readers coming here in the near future.