Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?

It's interesting but I don't think so.

It's just a glamour that she had taken off to go to sleep imo. That is reading too much into it.
It's a very downbeat reveal but that's the point. She's at her lowest ebb

I like to think that she still has a part to play in a journey that Jon has to make to the land of always winter. Given that she is known to not feel cold she is the only one who cold travel with undead Jon.
 
Revan said:
You're likely right. GRRM is too much cynic to just go for a big show on the last book and make a unified front against the Others. After all, we have seen that in Wheel of Time and the Lord of the Rings.
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Looks like a load of bollocks, but I get the dumbledore parallel completely. Old tosspot.
 
I can't buy Melisandre being dead, they aren't subtle enough to have written something that way. They'd have attempted to up the shock factor and been completely in your face about the whole thing.
 
If Mel dies to save Jon then we'll know Mel has died to save Jon. It won't just be her going for a nap, Jon wandering around the place at the start of the next episode and us left to figure out the two are connected.
 
Man I was SO let down by the Dorne treatment in this series. D&D are making a point of only having enough content for 13 more episodes post the end of this season, wouldn't be an issue should they have dealt with the source material properly. This episodes scene was downright embarrassing, wasting a BRILLIANT casting of Doran. Just all round pathetic.

I love the stuff at the Wall, very compelling. Other scenes are just filler to me at this point. Treating the books and the series as two completely different entities.

sullydnl said:
If Mel dies to save Jon then we'll know Mel has died to save Jon. It won't just be her going for a nap, Jon wandering around the place at the start of the next episode and us left to figure out the two are connected.
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If only D&D had this much nuance in their story telling.
 
Drainy said:
It's interesting but I don't think so.

It's just a glamour that she had taken off to go to sleep imo. That is reading too much into it.
It's a very downbeat reveal but that's the point. She's at her lowest ebb

I like to think that she still has a part to play in a journey that Jon has to make to the land of always winter. Given that she is known to not feel cold she is the only one who cold travel with undead Jon.
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I think every magic has a cost. What I think is that Melisandre spends significant talent/sorcery to hide her age for whatever reason. She maybe has decided to forego this and go to her rightful age, thereby saving all sorcery for whatever purpose in the next episode.
 
Melisandre doesn't sleep, so I don't know where they are going with that shit.

It's pretty illogical to sleep naked at the wall anyway:
 
Yeah I don't buy that theory; it's far too intelligent from the people who brought us the bad pussy.

Far more likely they completely forgot they had shown Melisandre without the necklace before, or figured nobody would notice/care.
 
What could it mean if she's just supposed to wake up the next morning though? In what way will her being 400 years old help to 'revive' Jon in some way? If it's just her going to sleep, I'm pretty sure it's a much deeper and more complicated explanation which we'll only find out a couple of episodes in or even at the end of the series.

Either way, I guess we'll know soon enough.
 
RobinLFC said:
What could it mean if she's just supposed to wake up the next morning though? In what way will her being 400 years old help to 'revive' Jon in some way? If it's just her going to sleep, I'm pretty sure it's a much deeper and more complicated explanation which we'll only find out a couple of episodes in or even at the end of the series.

Either way, I guess we'll know soon enough.
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One way is that it's her conserving power to use entirely on Jon, but I think that's flimsy too.

Maybe the revival may happen in some dream-like trance status? Her going to sleep was maybe merging into the subconscious limbo Jon is in? A theory floated around on the forums for a while is that Mel is Bloodraven's and Sheira Seastar's daughter and that in the show she is going to dream to talk to Bloodraven. I think that's far too nuanced and streamlined a point for the show to try and take.
 
DWelbz19 said:
One way is that it's her conserving power to use entirely on Jon, but I think that's flimsy too.

Maybe the revival may happen in some dream-like trance status? Her going to sleep was maybe merging into the subconscious limbo Jon is in? A theory floated around on the forums for a while is that Mel is Bloodraven's and Sheira Seastar's daughter and that in the show she is going to dream to talk to Bloodraven. I think that's far too nuanced and streamlined a point for the show to try and take.
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Bloodraven is just 120 or so years old. If Mel is really a few centuries old (I've read something like 400 or so), that is not going to happen.
 
That's that theory debunked. I wonder how much screen time Bran and Bloodraven get this season in general though, omitting the Tower of Joy, and potentially the Mad King flashbacks.
 
A part of that theory involves the descriptions of Melisandre and Shiera being pretty similar. It's a pretty cool theory and worth a read even if it is bollocks.

The whole thing could just be something that's discussed in the books but D&D felt the need to bash everyone over the head with her oldness. In the books she implied The Wall was massively multiplying her power if I remember right. Has she mentioned that at all in the show?

I found Davos wanting to turn her loose on Thorne and his cronies interesting in that he's not really seen her do much outside of burn people at the stake and give birth to a shadow baby. What's he actually expecting from her?
 
DWelbz19 said:
That's that theory debunked. I wonder how much screen time Bran and Bloodraven get this season in general though, omitting the Tower of Joy, and potentially the Mad King flashbacks.
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Not if Mel is just 80-100 years old. Which is quite possible (we still don't know her age).

...

Anyway, cannot still understand what the heck they meant with the Snake Bitches. They were actually on joy killing their cousin with whom they grow up and really had no justification to do so. I mean, it would have been alright (well, not really) if they killed him cause they had to do so in order to get Dorne to rebel, but they were actually happy on doing it and were competing on who kills him. It just makes no sense at all even if they are supposed to be psychopaths.

I really hope that someone shits on Dumb and Dumber's handbag.
 
Sir Matt said:
Doran only has gout. It won't kill him, just makes him miserable.
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While reading the Dorne chapters he clearly sounded to me like he's planning for his demise that's coming sooner than later. He's worried about his legacy, which he basically says to Arianne after she tried her stunt crowning Myrcella.
 
Revan said:
Anyway, cannot still understand what the heck they meant with the Snake Bitches. They were actually on joy killing their cousin with whom they grow up and really had no justification to do so. I mean, it would have been alright (well, not really) if they killed him cause they had to do so in order to get Dorne to rebel, but they were actually happy on doing it and were competing on who kills him. It just makes no sense at all even if they are supposed to be psychopaths.

I really hope that someone shits on Dumb and Dumber's handbag.
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I hate the characters but i think people are just criticising that scene for the sake of doing so. I mean someone killing a relative and doing so in a cold manner is hardly ground breaking for the series.

He was seen as weak and an opponent, also just because they grew up with him doesn't mean they had any affection for him.
 
Revan said:
Not if Mel is just 80-100 years old. Which is quite possible (we still don't know her age).
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One of the guys who made that scene (can't find the article anymore) said she had to look like a 400 year old but it was impossible to know how such a person would actually look. Not sure he got that information from GRRM himself or he just said some random age... She definitely looked a lot older than 80 though.
 
RobinLFC said:
One of the guys who made that scene (can't find the article anymore) said she had to look like a 400 year old but it was impossible to know how such a person would actually look. Not sure he got that information from GRRM himself or he just said some random age... She definitely looked a lot older than 80 though.
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It was the director that said that I think. One of D&D basically said George told them that she is centuries old and they couldn't wait to show that on screen. So it's entirely possible the whole necklace thing is just their invention and it never happens in the books at all. Instead we just get her saying/hinting that she's that old without it ever really being used in any way.
 
I keep wondering how Arya is going to fit back into the story. Her training is coming along in the books, but when done will she simply be set free to go around taking whatever "hits" she wants to or even striking out at her own personal hit list. The training would suggest she that she will have to put aside her personal feelings about who she wants to kill. Maybe when her training is complete she will get hired by someone to take out some big wig in Westeros, if it is not one of her enemies, say it is someone like Sansa instead, could bring about a bit of a crisis for our Arya. Will she get to kill Cersei?

OR will she find her way east, getting involved with Khalesi and company?

Will she get her dire wolf back? It has been talked about in the books that here is a rather large wolf pack roaming the lands, being led by a female dire wolf.
 
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That's pretty cool.
 
JustAFan said:
I keep wondering how Arya is going to fit back into the story. Her training is coming along in the books, but when done will she simply be set free to go around taking whatever "hits" she wants to or even striking out at her own personal hit list. The training would suggest she that she will have to put aside her personal feelings about who she wants to kill. Maybe when her training is complete she will get hired by someone to take out some big wig in Westeros, if it is not one of her enemies, say it is someone like Sansa instead, could bring about a bit of a crisis for our Arya. Will she get to kill Cersei?

OR will she find her way east, getting involved with Khalesi and company?

Will she get her dire wolf back? It has been talked about in the books that here is a rather large wolf pack roaming the lands, being led by a female dire wolf.
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Not according to the prophecy. Jaime is the most likely candidate for me.

I don't think she'll get to do whatever she wants and go about her business (i.e. her list) after her training. It just doesn't strike me as something Martin would do - give the character a nice little closure like this.
 
Arya has shown repeatedly that she's ill-suited to being a Faceless Man, I'd be very surprised if she completes her training.
 
I have a weird feeling that they might Kill off Jaime as the "surprise" of the season.
 
Pretty convinced Jaime will kill Cersei so I don't think he's getting killed any time soon.
 
I thought that Tyrion will kill her (at least in the books). Basically, Cersei self-fulfilling the prophecy by being a bitch towards Tyrion all his life and making him hate her, despite that he actually loved her until quite recently.

Will Jaime survive Lady Stoneheart? That is the question.
 
fishfingers15 said:
I think every magic has a cost. What I think is that Melisandre spends significant talent/sorcery to hide her age for whatever reason. She maybe has decided to forego this and go to her rightful age, thereby saving all sorcery for whatever purpose in the next episode.
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Melisandre is the new tsunade or madonna
 
Revan said:
I thought that Tyrion will kill her (at least in the books). Basically, Cersei self-fulfilling the prophecy by being a bitch towards Tyrion all his life and making him hate her, despite that he actually loved her until quite recently.

Will Jaime survive Lady Stoneheart? That is the question.
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The problem with that is that it's a bit too obvious. The prophecy literally says "your little brother will kill you" (well, not literally, but... you know) and it just feels a bit naive to pick the most obvious candidate (the little brother). Especially since Cersei herself believes that and acts accordingly (tries to kill him). Would make for a better story to find out that she's been wrong the whole time and it's actually Jaime. That would complete his 180 transformation, as well. Plus, their relationship is not exactly rosy in the last books. It's certainly not "us against them" like in the show.
 
The prophecy may just be bullshit. Lots of prophecies in the book only come true because people have heard the prophecy. There are just as many prophecies that are proven to be crap.

I think GRRM makes a point about not blindly following a prophet.
 
Just seen it, thought it was plain awful. The Dorne storyline is a pitiful mess but even everywhere else the dialogue is just incredibly poor. This show was great when they were following the books almost to the letter early on. It's been gradually downhill for a few seasons but since last season they've sunk so far down the shit there's no way of climbing back out again. I think I'll just give up on the show and wait for the book, if we're ever getting it.
 
Revan said:
Will Jaime survive Lady Stoneheart? That is the question.
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Possibly if he is given trial by combat and Stoneheart names Brienne as her champion.

Otherwise I hope for the tragedy of Brienne losing as his champion. It would be a fitting way to end it- Jaime is redeemed by Brienne only to be mislead by her to both their deaths

Basically I don't hate book Brienne, but she's a bit dull and it's time to kill her off.
 
Revan said:
I thought that Tyrion will kill her (at least in the books). Basically, Cersei self-fulfilling the prophecy by being a bitch towards Tyrion all his life and making him hate her, despite that he actually loved her until quite recently.

Will Jaime survive Lady Stoneheart? That is the question.
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Nah, Tyrion killing her is too obvious given that's who she's always thought would kill her. Whereas Jaime (who just happens to be younger than her too) killing her would make a lot more sense in terms of story movement and character development.

Jamie is about as likely to be killed by Stoneheart as Jon is to be permanently dead imo, really don't see anything other than him fulfilling Cersei's prophesy.
 
sullydnl said:
Nah, Tyrion killing her is too obvious given that's who she's always thought would kill her. Whereas Jaime (who just happens to be younger than her too) killing her would make a lot more sense in terms of story movement and character development.

Jamie is about as likely to be killed by Stoneheart as Jon is to be permanently dead imo, really don't see anything other than him fulfilling Cersei's prophesy.
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I think Tyrion being a bluff and Jaime killing her is too much of an obvious bluff so it's a double bluff and Tyrion is killing her.
 
It has to be Tyrion.

The prophecy obviously was bullshit. But she believed it, so she made the life miserable for Tyrion, and so Tyrion would kill her.

If she didn't hear the prophecy, she wouldn't have acted that way towards Tyrion, and he wouldn't have killed her.

So a self fulfilling prophecy. The witch was just spouting random bullshit, but Cersei the bitch she is, did all those bad things to survive from something that wasn't going to happen, in process making it happen.

To be fair, that might sound more Abercrombie than Martin.
 
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