Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?

[Revan]

Jaime's entire character so far. Stannis as well. Someone should tell them Stannis is the main guy not Melisandre as nice as her tits are.

I doubt the reek chapters will be anywhere near as good or disturbing as they were in the books. Especially with no fake arya I assume?

And Dorne is going to be lol worthy this season.

Yep. They ruined Jaime's character on season 2 when he killed his cousin. It looked like they forgot that they have to redeem Jaime later. Somehow, they managed to achieve that, but then the did the incest-rape scene without a single need.

Stannis has been lol-writting from the beginning. A character with whom I sympathized at the books, but on the show is just so bad.

And now with cutting Arienne, Euron, Victarion and Aegon they have completely ruined this for me. If there weren't Revan-like people whom would spoil it anyway, I would stop watching it now, but there isn't a point considering that any forum, facebook, twitter, 9gag, reddit will ensure that everyone will get spoilered. So, I have to watch it and then if GRRM eventually bothers to write the remaining 2 books, I just have to retroactively rewrite the story on my head.

 

[caid]

I'm tempted to try skip the tv series too ...
but i just know it would be pointless and impossible.

Im still hopeful of reading the winds of winter and the last part of the kingkiller trilogy this century.

 

[Cheesy]

Yep. They ruined Jaime's character on season 2 when he killed his cousin. It looked like they forgot that they have to redeem Jaime later. Somehow, they managed to achieve that, but then the did the incest-rape scene without a single need.

Stannis has been lol-writting from the beginning. A character with whom I sympathized at the books, but on the show is just so bad.

And now with cutting Arienne, Euron, Victarion and Aegon they have completely ruined this for me. If there weren't Revan-like people whom would spoil it anyway, I would stop watching it now, but there isn't a point considering that any forum, facebook, twitter, 9gag, reddit will ensure that everyone will get spoilered. So, I have to watch it and then if GRRM eventually bothers to write the remaining 2 books, I just have to retroactively rewrite the story on my head.

Jaime was excellent in Season 3. Having not read the books at that point, I thought he was one of the most complex and interesting characters on the show, with an interesting redemption arc too.

His problem in Season 4 was that he didn't really have all that much to do. Since he's only got a couple of chapters after he arrives back from KL, he spent a lot of the season just casually sort of siding with Tyrion one moment, while siding with Cersei the next moment. Or that terrible scene where he raped Cersei. Plus, they cut out the bit with Tyrion where he tells him the truth about Tysha. The character just sort of lost his edge in season 4.

 

[caid]

I quite like jaime in the show tbh. I just thought season 4 was pretty poor.
They just seemed to up the tempo of the show, started cutting out more characters, not adding any new ones and doing very little with character development.
There was no real build up of tension or quite moments for characters to even react to whats going on around them.
I honestly cant remember Cersei or Jaimes reaction to that scene on the show, did they react at all?
I loved Oberyn in the book, he got about 15 mins of screen time before dieing which got about 5 mins on its own.
They spent a lot of time on big set pieces. The full episode at the wall for instance.

I dont really understand the rush, i kind of figured the show would catch up or overtake the books at some point, just thought the next book would be out by the time it did
The show has no interest in establishing characters like Loras Tyrell, Brienne or the Greyjoys.
I dont know how Jaime's character arc can remain vaguely close to the book without Lady Stoneheart. Or Briennes for that matter.
Are they're dropping the Band of Brothers and the red priest guy too?

 

[Revan]

I thought that the fourth season was great. Only the first season wss better.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I quite like jaime in the show tbh. I just thought season 4 was pretty poor.
They just seemed to up the tempo of the show, started cutting out more characters, not adding any new ones and doing very little with character development.
There was no real build up of tension or quite moments for characters to even react to whats going on around them.
I honestly cant remember Cersei or Jaimes reaction to that scene on the show, did they react at all?
I loved Oberyn in the book, he got about 15 mins of screen time before dieing which got about 5 mins on its own.
They spent a lot of time on big set pieces. The full episode at the wall for instance.

I dont really understand the rush, i kind of figured the show would catch up or overtake the books at some point, just thought the next book would be out by the time it did
The show has no interest in establishing characters like Loras Tyrell, Brienne or the Greyjoys.
I dont know how Jaime's character arc can remain vaguely close to the book without Lady Stoneheart. Or Briennes for that matter.
Are they're dropping the Band of Brothers and the red priest guy too?

it's definitely annoying to see characters dropped and plots rushed/shortened from a reader's perspective, but the fact is that this show is now a massive, massive money making machine for HBO, where the vast majority of viewers haven't read the books. And considering one of the main complaints about the show is that there are too many characters and it's difficult to remember who's who, it's far from surprising that they're dropping loads of characters and instead continuing to focus on established ones.

It's annoying but it was always going to be the case.

Oh and S4 was way better than S2 and S3, which to be fair, it fecking should have been, seeing as it's the best book.

 

[Nighteyes]

Jaime was fine until that bath scene monologue (which was great). After that it was almost like they had no idea what to do with him and made it up as they went along. Now he's going to go Dorne with Bronn to do.....something? They should just kill his character. It's beyond pointless.

What's annoying me is that they are going to focus on Dany and Tyrion, the 2 characters responsible for 90% of the crap in book 5 and while pretty much ignoring the entire 4th book.


Also, how are they going to explain Varys and his words in season 1 now that they don't have Aegon in the show? Good luck with that!

 

[Welsh Wonder]

Personally I'm looking forward to Jaime and Bronn going to Dorne together, could be great tv.

 

[Revan]

Jaime was fine until that bath scene monologue (which was great). After that it was almost like they had no idea what to do with him and made it up as they went along. Now he's going to go Dorne with Bronn to do.....something? They should just kill his character. It's beyond pointless.

What's annoying me is that they are going to focus on Dany and Tyrion, the 2 characters responsible for 90% of the crap in book 5 and while pretty much ignoring the entire 4th book.


Also, how are they going to explain Varys and his words in season 1 now that they don't have Aegon in the show? Good luck with that!

What was it?

 

[Nighteyes]

What was it?

They went with the book version of things, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense if Varys' plan all along was to support Dany (which seems to be the case if judging by the trailers). I suppose they can pretend that scene never happened (and I don't think anyone other than book readers will even know). That or make out like Varys' is just making up things as he goes along and has no real plan which seems the shittier of the 2 alternatives.

 

[Nucks]

Jaime's entire character so far. Stannis as well. Someone should tell them Stannis is the main guy not Melisandre as nice as her tits are.

I doubt the reek chapters will be anywhere near as good or disturbing as they were in the books. Especially with no fake arya I assume?

And Dorne is going to be lol worthy this season.

I think it might be foreshadowing. Stannis isn't the guy. Stannis is a tool that Melisandre has used to get to "the guy". That was my take from the books when I read the last one whenever it came out years ago.

The last book was dog shit too. Didn't enjoy it. Words are wind. That line was used what, about 892 times or so, literally how I felt about the book. Lot of wind not much else!

 

[Nighteyes]

I think it might be foreshadowing. Stannis isn't the guy. Stannis is a tool that Melisandre has used to get to "the guy". That was my take from the books when I read the last one whenever it came out years ago.

The last book was dog shit too. Didn't enjoy it. Words are wind. That line was used what, about 892 times or so, literally how I felt about the book. Lot of wind not much else!

You've got it the other way round. Melisandre genuinely thinks Stannis is the "guy". Stannis knows he isn't the "guy" but is content to use Melisandre for his own purposes as he sees fit.

 

[Solius]

A Sansa teaser got released I think.

 

[Welsh Wonder]

A Sansa teaser got released I think.

Not the kind of teaser I want from her

 

[Nucks]

You've got it the other way round. Melisandre genuinely thinks Stannis is the "guy". Stannis knows he isn't the "guy" but is content to use Melisandre for his own purposes as he sees fit.

nuh uh!

 

[Welsh Wonder]

Or:

Melisandre thinks Stannis thinks she thinks he's the guy (and vice versa) but they both know he's not and are using each other.

 

[Nucks]

Or:

Melisandre thinks Stannis thinks she thinks he's the guy (and vice versa) but they both know he's not and are using each other.

I see it as Melisandre has latched onto Stannis because she believes that at a fundamental level he is a good guy and that she can use him. Notice how Melisandre basically hijacked the entire Stannis plan and sent everyone north at a moments notice? Notice how once she got there she became extremely interested in a certain someone who has interesting lineage.

I don't think she knew who she was looking for, but she knew where to find him and I think she has finally found him and Stannis has been along for the ride as equal parts beneficiary / pawn.

(Edit)

We also have to consider the time remaining in the series. Not much posturing can be left, we have to consider that much of the setup for the final act has already been laid. The remainder of the pieces will be moved into place during the next book. I'm sure there will be some more twists, but they are becoming limited in how game changing they can really be IMO. From my POV we're rounding the final corner to the home stretch and we pretty much know who is in the the final sprint to the finish.

 

[Nighteyes]

I see it as Melisandre has latched onto Stannis because she believes that at a fundamental level he is a good guy and that she can use him. Notice how Melisandre basically hijacked the entire Stannis plan and sent everyone north at a moments notice? Notice how once she got there she became extremely interested in a certain someone who has interesting lineage.

I don't think she knew who she was looking for, but she knew where to find him and I think she has finally found him and Stannis has been along for the ride as equal parts beneficiary / pawn.

(Edit)

We also have to consider the time remaining in the series. Not much posturing can be left, we have to consider that much of the setup for the final act has already been laid. The remainder of the pieces will be moved into place during the next book. I'm sure there will be some more twists, but they are becoming limited in how game changing they can really be IMO. From my POV we're rounding the final corner to the home stretch and we pretty much know who is in the the final sprint to the finish.

Did you miss the two Melisandre chapters in DwD? Because those chapters leave no doubt as to the fact that she genuinely thinks Stannis is Azor Azai. Can't get any clearer than that. She's not after a good guy. She's after someone who's the Azor Azai and will champion the Red God.

Where as Stannis' sarcastic reaction to the magic sword pretty much tells it all.

 

[King_Eric]

Not sure how much truth is in this as it was first posted on April 1st, but come on...

George R.R. Martin Developing New HBO Series Captain Cosmos

The Hollywood Reporter brings word that “Game of Trones” creator George R.R. Martin is developing a new series at HBO. Tentatively titled “Captain Cosmos,” the series is said to focus on a young sci-fi writer living at the dawn of the TV age in 1949 where he spends time writing stories that no one else would dare pen.

Still in early stages at HBO, “Eerie, Indiana” executive producer Michael Cassutt is writing the pilot script, having previously worked with Martin on the 1995 revival of “The Outer Limits.” Despite helping develop the idea, Martin is not expected to commit a lot of time to the series as he recently announced he would be canceling a number of appearances in order to finish the sixth novel in the “A Song of Ice and Fire” series.

Martin has had a long history in television working on the 1985 revival of “The Twilight Zone” and the 1987 “Beauty and the Beast” series starring Ron Perlman. The fifth season of “Game of Thrones” is set to premiere on April 12 at 9 p.m. on HBO.

 

[Nucks]

Did you miss the two Melisandre chapters in DwD? Because those chapters leave no doubt as to the fact that she genuinely thinks Stannis is Azor Azai. Can't get any clearer than that. She's not after a good guy. She's after someone who's the Azor Azai and will champion the Red God.

Where as Stannis' sarcastic reaction to the magic sword pretty much tells it all.

I read all of it and I got the complete opposite impression. Well Stannis thought the sword was a joke, but she was just carrying on the idea that he was the champion to maintain appearances. She is playing Stannis off as AA because for the time being it suits her. He has power, he has an army, he has a claim (the best?) to the 7 kingdoms. The guy who I am pretty sure she thinks is AA has none of that. No power, no army and for the time being no claim

To add to this. Just because she told Stannis something doesn't mean it is true, that she saw it and interpreted i properly or even that she was being honest. Dragonstone was the start where she was sent to find AA, but that doesn't mean AA was there. It could also mean that Dragonstone would lead her to AA.

I think the issue is that she needed Stannis, may have even believed initially that he was AA, but he doesn't fufil the prophecy. Aemon doubts it. Now? All Melisandre sees is you know who when she looks for AA, and it isn't Stannis. That doesn't mean he is AA maybe he is the next step on her journey but right now I would say the evidence is that Stannis absolutely isn't AA.

 

[Revan]

I read all of it and I got the complete opposite impression. Well Stannis thought the sword was a joke, but she was just carrying on the idea that he was the champion to maintain appearances. She is playing Stannis off as AA because for the time being it suits her. He has power, he has an army, he has a claim (the best?) to the 7 kingdoms. The guy who I am pretty sure she thinks is AA has none of that. No power, no army and for the time being no claim

To add to this. Just because she told Stannis something doesn't mean it is true, that she saw it and interpreted i properly or even that she was being honest. Dragonstone was the start where she was sent to find AA, but that doesn't mean AA was there. It could also mean that Dragonstone would lead her to AA.

I think the issue is that she needed Stannis, may have even believed initially that he was AA, but he doesn't fufil the prophecy. Aemon doubts it. Now? All Melisandre sees is you know who when she looks for AA, and it isn't Stannis. That doesn't mean he is AA maybe he is the next step on her journey but right now I would say the evidence is that Stannis absolutely isn't AA.

I thought during the entire time that Mel thought that Stannis is AA, but then on Dance with Dragons she had spent some time with Jon and so she changed her opinion. Remember, the flames are ambiguos or some other shit.

What is the most important question is: is there really an AA on the story? The North who apparently fought the others, don't have a legend about him, while the feckers from the end of the world have that legend. So, AA a real hero who will again save the world, or some propaganda for some other reasons?

 

[Nighteyes]

I would say the evidence is that Stannis absolutely isn't AA.

That goes without saying and not what I'm arguing.

I read all of it and I got the complete opposite impression. Well Stannis thought the sword was a joke, but she was just carrying on the idea that he was the champion to maintain appearances. She is playing Stannis off as AA because for the time being it suits her. He has power, he has an army, he has a claim (the best?) to the 7 kingdoms. The guy who I am pretty sure she thinks is AA has none of that. No power, no army and for the time being no claim

To add to this. Just because she told Stannis something doesn't mean it is true, that she saw it and interpreted i properly or even that she was being honest. Dragonstone was the start where she was sent to find AA, but that doesn't mean AA was there. It could also mean that Dragonstone would lead her to AA.

@ the bold. Of course but that's why we have her PoV. We know what she thinks. You can lie to others but you cannot constantly lie in your own thoughts.

She thinks Stannis is AA throughout though I suspect that will change in WoW when the evidence mounts against that notion.

Also, I think you are misinterpreting AA and Melisandre's intention. AA is not just some heroic prophesized guy but someone who will champion the red god. She doesn't care about power or claim. When she came to Stannis he was well down the line of succession and had a shite dragonstone for land. If she wanted power or army she could have gone to a few others ahead of Stannis most notably Renly.

And, she could not possibly have thought Jon was AA because he failed the very first criteria of AA. It wasn't until the very end of DwD that Jon was (possibly) reborn amidst salt and smoke.

What is the most important question is: is there really an AA on the story? The North who apparently fought the others, don't have a legend about him, while the feckers from the end of the world have that legend. So, AA a real hero who will again save the world, or some propaganda for some other reasons?

I wondered about this as well. For Jon to be considered AA he'll have to give up the old gods and he's already refused that multiple times. Dany fits it best but perhaps too well for it to be true.

 

[harshad]

I read all of it and I got the complete opposite impression. Well Stannis thought the sword was a joke, but she was just carrying on the idea that he was the champion to maintain appearances. She is playing Stannis off as AA because for the time being it suits her. He has power, he has an army, he has a claim (the best?) to the 7 kingdoms. The guy who I am pretty sure she thinks is AA has none of that. No power, no army and for the time being no claim

To add to this. Just because she told Stannis something doesn't mean it is true, that she saw it and interpreted i properly or even that she was being honest. Dragonstone was the start where she was sent to find AA, but that doesn't mean AA was there. It could also mean that Dragonstone would lead her to AA.

I think the issue is that she needed Stannis, may have even believed initially that he was AA, but he doesn't fufil the prophecy. Aemon doubts it. Now? All Melisandre sees is you know who when she looks for AA, and it isn't Stannis. That doesn't mean he is AA maybe he is the next step on her journey but right now I would say the evidence is that Stannis absolutely isn't AA.

I thought during the entire time that Mel thought that Stannis is AA, but then on Dance with Dragons she had spent some time with Jon and so she changed her opinion. Remember, the flames are ambiguos or some other shit.

Read this bit from Melisandre's POV in Dance:

The red priestess closed her eyes and said a prayer, then opened them once more to face the hearthfire. One more time. She had to be certain. Many a priest and priestess before her had been brought down by false visions, by seeing what they wished to see instead of what the Lord of Light had sent. Stannis was marching south into peril, the king who carried the fate of the world upon his shoulders, Azor Ahai reborn. Surely R’hllor would vouchsafe her a glimpse of what awaited him. Show me Stannis, Lord, she prayed. Show me your king, your instrument

Skulls. A thousand skulls, and the bastard boy again. Jon Snow. Whenever she was asked what she saw within her fires, Melisandre would answer, “Much and more,” but seeing was never as simple as those words suggested. It was an art, and like all arts it demanded mastery, discipline, study. Pain. That too. R’hllor spoke to his chosen ones through blessed fire, in a language of ash and cinder and twisting flame that only a god could truly grasp. Melisandre had practiced her art for years beyond count, and she had paid the price. There was no one, even in her order, who had her skill at seeing the secrets half-revealed and half-concealed within the sacred flames. Yet now she could not even seem to find her king. I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R’hllor shows me only Snow

She quite clearly believes Stannis is the AA and can't seem to figure out why she is being shown Jon Snow. At least until DWD Melisandre believes that Stannis is AA.

What is the most important question is: is there really an AA on the story? The North who apparently fought the others, don't have a legend about him, while the feckers from the end of the world have that legend. So, AA a real hero who will again save the world, or some propaganda for some other reasons?

The North has the legend of 'The Last Hero', who defeated the Others the last time they came. Probably AA and the Last Hero were the same person.

 

[Nighteyes]

The North has the legend of 'The Last Hero', who defeated the Others the last time they came. Probably AA and the Last Hero were the same person.

And the Targaryens have the Prince that was promised prophecy. The AA is very specific one which makes me think they are all not same but who the feck knows.

 

[harshad]

And the Targaryens have the Prince that was promised prophecy. The AA is very specific one which makes me think they are all not same but who the feck knows.

Hopefully, we'll know next year.

 

[Revan]

I'll summarize a theory that Rhllor is the Great Other and AA is a lie as soon as I'll go home. There might be something on that.

I don't remember the prophecy of the last hero. Also, pretty sure that Danny is the prince who has been promised, but not AA.

 

[NoLogo]

She quite clearly believes Stannis is the AA and can't seem to figure out why she is being shown Jon Snow. At least until DWD Melisandre believes that Stannis is AA.

The strange part though is that the only one the prophecy really fits is Daenrys. “It is written in prophecy as well. When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone.”

Of course Melisandre isn't aware of her at all and neither seems R'hllor. So I'm starting to think that R'hllor is a bit of a charlatan or Melisandre just has no clue what the fluff she is doing.

 

[Revan]

The strange part though is that the only one the prophecy really fits is Daenrys. “It is written in prophecy as well. When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone.”

Of course Melisandre isn't aware of her at all and neither seems R'hllor. So I'm starting to think that R'hllor is a bit of a charlatan or Melisandre just has no clue what the fluff she is doing.

JS might be reborn next book. If he gets resurrected by Mel, it might be something with fire.

Also, the fecker is both ice (Stark) and fire (Targ).

Danny was never reborn. she just didn't die when she went on fire. Her dragons weren't stone dragons.

 

[Nighteyes]

JS might be reborn next book. If he gets resurrected by Mel, it might be something with fire.

Also, the fecker is both ice (Stark) and fire (Targ).

Danny was never reborn. she just didn't die when she went on fire. Her dragons weren't stone dragons.

Jon won't die either. I'm willing to bet on that.

He'll enter a Bran-like comatose state. Also, you need lightbringer as well.

 

[harshad]

I'll summarize a theory that Rhllor is the Great Other and AA is a lie as soon as I'll go home. There might be something on that.

I don't remember the prophecy of the last hero. Also, pretty sure that Danny is the prince who has been promised, but not AA.

I don't think there is one.

 

[NoLogo]

JS might be reborn next book. If he gets resurrected by Mel, it might be something with fire.

Also, the fecker is both ice (Stark) and fire (Targ).

Danny was never reborn. she just didn't die when she went on fire. Her dragons weren't stone dragons.

Of course her dragons were born from stone. They were stone eggs, remember. Jon isn't fitting the description at all especially considering the comet appeared after Danny's "rebirth". Jon is too much of a stretch to be even remotely considered AA.

But let's be honest in the end it's probably all just a myth an there won't even be a new AA. For all we know GRRM will let the others "win" in the end and every single charcter we know and love will die. I certainly wouldn't put it past the evil bastard.

 

[harshad]

Jon won't die either. I'm willing to bet on that.

He'll enter a Bran-like comatose state. Also, you need lightbringer as well.

Think it was heavily implied that he warged in Ghost immediately after being stabbed. Could be he is 'transferred' back to his body by Melisandre. Don't really expect Lady Stone Heart to have anything to do with.

 

[Revan]

Rhllor being the Great Other?

1) Valar morghulis, valar dohaeris. All men must die, all men must serve.

While it might be just an innocent moto, what if the meaning is 'all men must die, in order to serve'. The comma there create all possibilities for ambiguity. We know that the others can resurrect dead people who then are pretty much the perfect slaves. What is the ultimate plan is indeed to kill everyone and then make them serve Rhllor?

We know that the order of Faceless Men had a part on destroying the Valyrian Empire. With dragons gone, what is to stop the others? We also know that the Faceless Men worship Rhllor.

2) Carice von Tits spoiled that her character is several hundreds old (I read that before though cannot find the quotes). So, if Melisandre is several hundred years old, then for sure she is having an unnatural live. And there are some creatures on the story who don't die like humans. Yep, the others.

3) Priests of Rhllor are able to resurrect the dead people. Thoros of Myr did that with Beric Dondarrian and Catelyn Stark. We know that the others can resurrect dead people. So?

4) It's only Rhllor, and the great Other whose name cannot be spoken - from Melisandre. Why his name cannot be spoken? Because his name is Rhllor, and then the masterplan will vanish.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/82888-theory-the-great-other-is-rhllor/

It makes sense. Still though, it is more likely then there isn't a masterplan but Rhllor and the Great Other are 2 faces of the same God. While humans and the others have misinterpreted something.

 

[harshad]

Rhllor being the Great Other?

1) Valar morghulis, valar dohaeris. All men must die, all men must serve.

While it might be just an innocent moto, what if the meaning is 'all men must die, in order to serve'. The comma there create all possibilities for ambiguity. We know that the others can resurrect dead people who then are pretty much the perfect slaves. What is the ultimate plan is indeed to kill everyone and then make them serve Rhllor?

We know that the order of Faceless Men had a part on destroying the Valyrian Empire. With dragons gone, what is to stop the others? We also know that the Faceless Men worship Rhllor.

2) Carice von Tits spoiled that her character is several hundreds old (I read that before though cannot find the quotes). So, if Melisandre is several hundred years old, then for sure she is having an unnatural live. And there are some creatures on the story who don't die like humans. Yep, the others.

3) Priests of Rhllor are able to resurrect the dead people. Thoros of Myr did that with Beric Dondarrian and Catelyn Stark. We know that the others can resurrect dead people. So?

4) It's only Rhllor, and the great Other whose name cannot be spoken - from Melisandre. Why his name cannot be spoken? Because his name is Rhllor, and then the masterplan will vanish.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/82888-theory-the-great-other-is-rhllor/

It makes sense. Still though, it is more likely then there isn't a masterplan but Rhllor and the Great Other are 2 faces of the same God. While humans and the others have misinterpreted something.

The Faceless Men worship the Many Faced God. Other than that, the theory sounds reasonable. I'll say there is more a chance of Melisandre being played instead of the other Red Priests that we have met i.e. Thoros of Myr and Moqorro.

 

[Nighteyes]

Think it was heavily implied that he warged in Ghost immediately after being stabbed. Could be he is 'transferred' back to his body by Melisandre. Don't really expect Lady Stone Heart to have anything to do with.

Yeah, he definitely did warg into Ghost just like Robb did but I don't think he will die though. You look at how Beric and Stoneheart end up despite being resurrected and well....I just don't see Jon in that state. We don't even know if Melisandre can resurrect people. She seems to specialize in killing just like Thoros specializes in resurrecting them. Regardless, I don't see Jon dying, If he does die, then I reckon his resurrection of whatever will happen due to something done by Bran/Bloodraven. Which reminds, can't wait for the Bran chapters. Can't be imagine there will be too many of them but they should be great.

 

[Revan]

The Faceless Men worship the Many Faced God. Other than that, the theory sounds reasonable. I'll say there is more a chance of Melisandre being played instead of the other Red Priests that we have met i.e. Thoros of Myr and Moqorro.

There seems to be some confusion in the TV series between the God of Death and R'hllor, the Red God. It stems from a piece of dialogue spoken by Jaqen H'ghar, both in the books and in the television show, in which he refers to the god he worships (presumably the God of Death, as he is a Faceless Man) as the "Red God" —that is, R'hllor. Later, solely in the show, the words "Valar Morghulis" and "Valar Dohaeris", which in the books are used by Faceless Men, are used once between worshipers of R'hllor. While this confusion has yet to be cleared up, a likely explanation lies in the fact that the "Many-faced God of Death" is a syncretic religion, which holds that every god or set of gods is just another facet of the god of death.

It might be that they are the same.

 

[harshad]

Yeah, he definitely did warg into Ghost just like Robb did but I don't think he will die though. You look at how Beric and Stoneheart end up despite being resurrected and well....I just don't see Jon in that state. We don't even know if Melisandre can resurrect people. She seems to specialize in killing just like Thoros specializes in resurrecting them. Regardless, I don't see Jon dying, If he does die, then I reckon his resurrection of whatever will happen due to something done by Bran/Bloodraven. Which reminds, can't wait for the Bran chapters. Can't be imagine there will be too many of them but they should be great.

I didn't notice the Robb thing on my first read; but on the re-read, it struck me as something odd was happening there and had to check online for confirmation.

I think with Beric it was more to do with the number of times that he was resurrected and with each resurrection, he was losing his memories of his life. With Catelyn it probably seems to be different because of the time that may have elapsed between her death and her resurrection and she remembers or rather gets her motivation from what was the most recent event in her life. I think I am correct in my assumption that almost every time Beric was resurrected immediately post his death by Thoros. So, depending upon how soon Jon is resurrected, if he is dead, we will know how much of his old self he is.

Also, think the power of resurrection seems to be with both the other Red Priests that we have met so far. There is that passage in the Victarion Chapter, when Moqorro heals his hand, where there is a slight change in the POV, which resulted in the theory that Victarion died during that time and was brought back to life by Moqorro.

Agree on Bran though. His chapters would be a filled with information and should clarify many things, chief among them being whether Jojen is dead or alive?

 

[Revan]

Jojen has been eaten by Brand.

Didn't ever notice Robb warging.

 

[harshad]

It might be that they are the same.

Think the Faceless Men worship every god that deals with Death.

See this from Cat of the Canals chapter in FFC

Braavos was a city made for secrets, a city of fogs and masks and whispers. Its very existence had been a secret for a century, the girl had
learned; its location had been hidden thrice that long. “The Nine Free Cities are the daughters of Valyria that was,” the kindly man taught her,
“but Braavos is the bastard child who ran away from home. We are a mongrel folk, the sons of slaves and whores and thieves. Our forebears
came from half a hundred lands to this place of refuge, to escape the dragonlords who had enslaved them. Half a hundred gods came with
them, but there is one god all of them shared in common.”
“Him of Many Faces.”
“And many names,” the kindly man had said. “In Qohor he is the Black Goat, in Yi Ti the Lion of Night, in Westeros the Stranger. All men
must bow to him in the end, no matter if they worship the Seven or the Lord of Light, the Moon Mother or the Drowned God or the Great
Shepherd. All mankind belongs to him . . . else somewhere in the world would be a folk who lived forever. Do you know of any folk who live
forever?”

 

[harshad]

Jojen has been eaten by Brand.

Didn't ever notice Robb warging.

I know that theory. I just hope its some part of his body that was cut and mixed in the paste that Bran was given to eat.

Unless a Green Dreamer is required to be sacrificed to make the paste work.