Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?
- Thread starter Massive Spanner
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It that is true, would indicate to me that they've had a chat with GRRM first and he's confirmed that she isn't particularly important in the book.
Which, to be honest, wouldn't be that surprising. I can't remember too much about her after the initial dramatic reveal (though I'm struggling to remember a lot of details from 4th and especially 5th books).
As Zak said, the show is already starting to show a few spoilers for the books and will do so far more next season imo.
I don't know about that. The show has actually killed characters that Martin said would still play an important role in the books. If anything the books seem to go further away from the books than ever before in the coming seasons. The children of the forest throwing fire bolts out of their hands and skeletons instead of wights or others i'm pretty certain are completely invented by the show makers and will never happen in the books.
Just remembered. I read a theory ago for the first time that Tywin was dying anyway because Oberyn had somehow poisoned him before the duel with Gregor.
Well LS is definitely important for the immediate fate of Jaime and Brienne at the start of TWOW. Apart from that, I don't recall her having too great an impact other than running about, offing Freys.
Gonna comment before I read everything else.
Was not a fan of this episode. Thought it was way too much of a "weer gonna make the best episode evah!" kind of wibe. Mashing as much as they could into one episode. It hardly had any build up (if you don't count the GoT jizz that build up inside people because there was no Tyrion conclusion in ep. 9).
Stannis' entrance
-The view from the top. Made the Wildling camp look like a few tents. It did not feel like they were 10k and had giants and mammoths at all. Really anti-climatic.
Jojen's death
-Why? I know he said he foresaw his demise in the books but he's had lots of dreams of people getting killed and it hasn't come true. Only thing it did was too feck with us book readers.
No Coldhands
-Why not include him? He's an intriguing character. He doesn't have to be CGI'ed and he doesn't need a good actor. My only guess is that he would reveal who he is in the books. But that shouldn't matter. If they could afford to have him absent they might as well changed his appearance if that were so.
Jon Snow
-He's a moby bastard, ain't he? Do people like him at all? Or should I rather ask, do any people like him at all besides girls who think he's hawt?
Brienne vs. the Hound
-Did not like it. They clearly thought it was cool and mysterious to have them meet and fight and to add a bit of more girl power to the show but really to me it was just a plot hole. Their horses were missing. After the fight it seems like they don't spend any effort on looking for her. I mean we watched the fight in "real time". How far could she realistically have gone? Did they leave a horse for Arya?
Oh yea, they also kind of forgot to give the Hound and Arya a purpose before this meeting. I don't remember it at least, maybe it's just me. But what did they do after they heard that aunt Lysa was dead besides just laugh? They didn't form any plan did they? This whole scene felt like a cop out to me.
Tyrion's bits
-Should have been more focused on. He killed Tyrion and Shae and left King's landing with the help of Jamie and Varys and it was 1/10th of the episode. That's really were the build-up failed the most.
Conclusion: I did not enjoy this episode. The views of the non-book readers that watched it with me was 50/50. I'm a bit nervous for the next couple of seasons because this felt wasted and next up they're going to get a lot less to work out of. This season barely had any humor in it. Partly because they cut so many fun, smaller characters out (Blackfish, Strong Belwas, Noye). Lots of people are not fans of what happens at the wall at all. I think it's because it lacks humor along with Sam being unlikable and Snow seemingly having been listening too much to The Smiths. One of 2 or 3 episodes so far that I've leaned heavily towards the "dislike" side of the scale.
edit: Oh, forgot about Bloodraven. Did not like the way he looked. Reminded me of Dumbledore in the first Harry Potter movie. They didn't need CGI to make him look the part. Could easily have been done with make-up. This show has never been good at details with the make-up.
Also forgot about the Mountain. Could they make Robert Strong any less vague? We can all pretty much guess his identity in the books but it has never been confirmed. They would have been better off not showing that scene.
Was not a fan of this episode. Thought it was way too much of a "weer gonna make the best episode evah!" kind of wibe. Mashing as much as they could into one episode. It hardly had any build up (if you don't count the GoT jizz that build up inside people because there was no Tyrion conclusion in ep. 9).
Stannis' entrance
-The view from the top. Made the Wildling camp look like a few tents. It did not feel like they were 10k and had giants and mammoths at all. Really anti-climatic.
Jojen's death
-Why? I know he said he foresaw his demise in the books but he's had lots of dreams of people getting killed and it hasn't come true. Only thing it did was too feck with us book readers.
No Coldhands
-Why not include him? He's an intriguing character. He doesn't have to be CGI'ed and he doesn't need a good actor. My only guess is that he would reveal who he is in the books. But that shouldn't matter. If they could afford to have him absent they might as well changed his appearance if that were so.
Jon Snow
-He's a moby bastard, ain't he? Do people like him at all? Or should I rather ask, do any people like him at all besides girls who think he's hawt?
Brienne vs. the Hound
-Did not like it. They clearly thought it was cool and mysterious to have them meet and fight and to add a bit of more girl power to the show but really to me it was just a plot hole. Their horses were missing. After the fight it seems like they don't spend any effort on looking for her. I mean we watched the fight in "real time". How far could she realistically have gone? Did they leave a horse for Arya?
Oh yea, they also kind of forgot to give the Hound and Arya a purpose before this meeting. I don't remember it at least, maybe it's just me. But what did they do after they heard that aunt Lysa was dead besides just laugh? They didn't form any plan did they? This whole scene felt like a cop out to me.
Tyrion's bits
-Should have been more focused on. He killed Tyrion and Shae and left King's landing with the help of Jamie and Varys and it was 1/10th of the episode. That's really were the build-up failed the most.
Conclusion: I did not enjoy this episode. The views of the non-book readers that watched it with me was 50/50. I'm a bit nervous for the next couple of seasons because this felt wasted and next up they're going to get a lot less to work out of. This season barely had any humor in it. Partly because they cut so many fun, smaller characters out (Blackfish, Strong Belwas, Noye). Lots of people are not fans of what happens at the wall at all. I think it's because it lacks humor along with Sam being unlikable and Snow seemingly having been listening too much to The Smiths. One of 2 or 3 episodes so far that I've leaned heavily towards the "dislike" side of the scale.
edit: Oh, forgot about Bloodraven. Did not like the way he looked. Reminded me of Dumbledore in the first Harry Potter movie. They didn't need CGI to make him look the part. Could easily have been done with make-up. This show has never been good at details with the make-up.
Also forgot about the Mountain. Could they make Robert Strong any less vague? We can all pretty much guess his identity in the books but it has never been confirmed. They would have been better off not showing that scene.
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That hasn't mattered at all so far. They could just as easily replace him with John Lannister. No one watching would care and the end result would be the same.
I agree with a lot of your posts except about Jon Snow. I think he's quiet good in the book and in TV's, the changed bits helped his character as well. If R + L = J theory is right, they've done all the right moves so far.
I don't dislike him in the show. I just don't know anyone that doesn't read the books and likes him. He's not getting praises in the TV thread either. He probably was wrongly cast because that Harrington fellow has bit of a natural Droopy wibe going on so he can't really help it.
Probably saved by Littlefinger's accent.
I actually really like that they're moving away from the books. The books were great and all but knowing everything that happens or is supposed to happen is a bit shit and you get annoyed at things they leave out. Just moving away from them gives that sense of unpredictability back.
Such a disappointing episode, the TV Series and the books are going further apart, and they're forcing us to choose. I really hate it.
Firstly, the Wall. What happened to the Horn? Then there were no shouts of "STANNIS" and it looked like there were 50 wildlings camping in the woods, not 10,000 of them geared for war. Where are the other giants? The mammoths? How come a battle involving 18,000 people lasted a few seconds? Such a letdown.
Secondly, what was the point of Cersei's reveal to Tywin and that incest scene? It only drives Jaime down the 'dark side', and unites him with Cersei, unlike the books. Coupled with the Tyrion-Jaime happy ending, I think they've messed up both the characters now.
Thirdly, what was the point of them coming back to the wall after the Dany scene? You could build it up and nice and proper next season, leaving show watchers to wonder what Stannis does with the Wall now. The Ygritte funeral was just too cheesy.
Fourth, what was with all those fireballs? I'm afraid that was just to spice things up a bit - it would be really disappointing if they couldn't explain or extrapolate it next season. I also didn't understand why it was a need breed of zombie monsters attacking Bran and Co., instead of the Others. Will they be explained further, or will they just let it pass like that 'rape' scene?
Fifth, the Hollywood style fight between Brienne and the Hound came out of nowhere, and will have consequences. Now when Brienne and Pod meet LSH, they can tell her they've seen Arya alive. They can stop along the way, and send a raven to Kings Landing informing Jaime about the Hound and Arya. I don't know the show will use it later, or if they'll let that pass, too.
Sixth, the Tyrion scene. Now where do I begin? Why did he leave on good terms with Jaime? He has to tell him about Cersei, that is a MAJOR plot element. The "Moon-boy for all I know" line is just gone - now what motivation does Jaime have for drifting away from Cersei? Jaime doesn't tell Tyrion about Tysha, and Tyrion doesn't tell him he's killed his son. All major major changes which MUST have bearing on the plot later on. Next, why did he kill Shae in self-defense rather than out of spite? How come Tysha wasn't mentioned despite being brought up in previous scenes? Where did the haunting line "Wherever whores go" go?
It was so disappointing, I think I'm done watching the TV Series. I'll move on to Firefly or Breaking Bad or Hannibal or something now, and just read the next book when it comes along, if it comes along. Bloody show feckers.
Firstly, the Wall. What happened to the Horn? Then there were no shouts of "STANNIS" and it looked like there were 50 wildlings camping in the woods, not 10,000 of them geared for war. Where are the other giants? The mammoths? How come a battle involving 18,000 people lasted a few seconds? Such a letdown.
Secondly, what was the point of Cersei's reveal to Tywin and that incest scene? It only drives Jaime down the 'dark side', and unites him with Cersei, unlike the books. Coupled with the Tyrion-Jaime happy ending, I think they've messed up both the characters now.
Thirdly, what was the point of them coming back to the wall after the Dany scene? You could build it up and nice and proper next season, leaving show watchers to wonder what Stannis does with the Wall now. The Ygritte funeral was just too cheesy.
Fourth, what was with all those fireballs? I'm afraid that was just to spice things up a bit - it would be really disappointing if they couldn't explain or extrapolate it next season. I also didn't understand why it was a need breed of zombie monsters attacking Bran and Co., instead of the Others. Will they be explained further, or will they just let it pass like that 'rape' scene?
Fifth, the Hollywood style fight between Brienne and the Hound came out of nowhere, and will have consequences. Now when Brienne and Pod meet LSH, they can tell her they've seen Arya alive. They can stop along the way, and send a raven to Kings Landing informing Jaime about the Hound and Arya. I don't know the show will use it later, or if they'll let that pass, too.
Sixth, the Tyrion scene. Now where do I begin? Why did he leave on good terms with Jaime? He has to tell him about Cersei, that is a MAJOR plot element. The "Moon-boy for all I know" line is just gone - now what motivation does Jaime have for drifting away from Cersei? Jaime doesn't tell Tyrion about Tysha, and Tyrion doesn't tell him he's killed his son. All major major changes which MUST have bearing on the plot later on. Next, why did he kill Shae in self-defense rather than out of spite? How come Tysha wasn't mentioned despite being brought up in previous scenes? Where did the haunting line "Wherever whores go" go?
It was so disappointing, I think I'm done watching the TV Series. I'll move on to Firefly or Breaking Bad or Hannibal or something now, and just read the next book when it comes along, if it comes along. Bloody show feckers.
Didn't Bloodraven had only one eye? The other socket being stuffed with a ruby or something? The TV Show dude had both his eyes didn't he?
Yep, they even used the line "A thousand eyes and one", which isn't in the books (it's in the Dunk & Egg novellas), but which doesn't make sense if he's actually got two eyes. I still like the show a whole lot, but I'm more and more beginning to think that the writers don't really understand the books.
Fairly sure that line is the books as well.
The line is but Bloodraven has only one eye cause he lost one eye during the Blackfyre conflict IIRC. So he had 'a thousand and one eyes' because he had his single own eye and 'a thousand' eyes (i.e spies).
obvious room for improvement.....
most notably with the big battle at the wall amounting to a single skirmish and then Stannis arrives - Mammoths/Wargs etc... these would have been great to see
the Tyrion/Tysha/Jamie/Varys scenes weren't great either - why not make the last two episodes 90 mins and tell the story right
I don't mind too much for the other stuff from what I remember from the books.
The one concern I have is the TV show not overtaking the books, particularly in the Bran Story - will he be omitted from the next series as you wonder if we would see a new book in the next 10 months
most notably with the big battle at the wall amounting to a single skirmish and then Stannis arrives - Mammoths/Wargs etc... these would have been great to see
the Tyrion/Tysha/Jamie/Varys scenes weren't great either - why not make the last two episodes 90 mins and tell the story right
I don't mind too much for the other stuff from what I remember from the books.
The one concern I have is the TV show not overtaking the books, particularly in the Bran Story - will he be omitted from the next series as you wonder if we would see a new book in the next 10 months
Someone clocked onto the Grand Tyrell Conspiracy.
Epic trolling.
She's staying true to her role of being a fecking bitch like Cersie.
Don't know if this was posted here before, but it's cool
STANNIS! STANNIS! STANNIS!
I've never been more glad that they didn't include something tbh.
I really wasn't bothered either way. So far its only use in the books was the shock ending and there's already enough stuff that's briefly mentioned in the show and then disappears for ages.
Stoneheart or "STANNIS! x3" ?
Stannis^3. Stoneheart would have been fun, but more to see reactions than for what it adds to the story.
what the feck is Stannis x 3?
Coldhands
'Robert, Jon thought for one mad moment, remembering poor Owen, but when the trumpets blew again and knights charged, the name they cried was "Stannis! Stannis! Stannis!"
that's a lie.
d'oh. duh!
Stannis the Mannis
Agreed. As a episode was very good, the tv show still best thing on tv in my opinion, it's in a league of it's own. As an adaptation from the books not great. Apart from the death of Tywin the finale was more a set up for next season. The next few seasons will be the biggest challenges for the show runners. 2 books that will be very tough to adapt and the fact we still have no idea on future books. The show runners are in a pretty much impossible position to be in, I know most book readers hate the way it's going I think this is way they have to take it. That's why I'd agree it's got be considered different entities from now on.
As I said the final was good,
- Thought the battle at the Wall was decent for a tv show you don't have the budget for a 100,000 wildlings fight. My problem was this scene was about 10 mins, could they not have cut 10 mins out of ep 9 and put this in at the end.
- Thought the scene the the burnt child was powerful and well done. Also did like minimizing Daenary's screen time in Meereen. That does drag in the books.
- Didn't mind Hound vs Brienne fight. Kills of The Hound and helped show Arya's dark side in that she wont put her trust in anyone anymore.
- The Jamie,Trion and Tywin was rushed but did the job I guess. Got to point looking at the time of the ep with 8 mins left, was thinking this is going to be quick. Didn't think Charles Dance would die on the bog but did, was gutted they didn't use the "Lannister shits gold" line. I'd have thought they'd be all over that.
- Pretty sure they are saving Lady Stoneheart for next season does lack the some shock moments this will shock people. Didn't bother me too much she wasn't in it. I'll bet we see her S5 opener.
The only thing I'm afraid of is GRRM being overtaken by the tv show. Which isn't unlikely considering he types one-fingered on DOS computer.
At this stage, that has become now absolutely certain. The show will have another 3 or at most 4 seasons. There is no way that GRRM will publish both his book on 3-4 years.
If he wanted to, he could. Unfortunately he's a slow writer and he's on the road half the year.
It's not impossible, I'm quite new to the books but didn't he release the first 3 books within 4 years or something. But yeah the show will fall behind it has to.
Yes, that's true.
But after that it's been 5 then 6 respectively for the next two.
Wikipedia says 'In January 2014, Martin’s UK publisher, Jane Johnson, declared on Twitter that the book would "certainly" not be published before 2015.'
That would be 4 years after the last one, so 2016 might be more realistic. Martin won't give a timetable after pissing off people with inaccuracy in the past.
I wonder if Martin won't just finish the tv show as the writing is so much less in volume, giving him a kind of skeleton to use to finish the books. I'm sure he has a pretty damned good idea how he wants it all to end.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Winds_of_Winter
You have read the books? Correct me if I am wrong but didnt vargo hoat cut off Jamie's hand? Not Bolton's men. I didnt want to correct you as had no idea who did it in the tv series and figured you had read the books.
Didn't Hoat work for Bolton? Or did he just take the prisoners to him thinking he would pay the most?
Don't remember.