Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?

Sir Matt said:
No Coldhands is bollocks. Jojen dying is interesting. I'm not quite sure why they had Brienne and the Hound fight. Seemed a bit pointless, but I guess it added more excitement? Could have had more focus on the North instead of all that. Still, the ending was fantastic. Valar morghullis.

I'm glad Stoneheart wasn't in it. I hate her.
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I don't remember the first couple of episodes that well, did they show the magic door under the wall? If not, they haven't really explained the magic spell on the wall very well. Although the skeletons getting crushed by the Children's magic upon entering the tree would be a subtle hint. Coldhands would've been an awesome character in the show.


Brienne v the Hound was basically to keep Arya in longer, I think. She would be off to Braavos earlier if not. Arya leaving the hound was pretty much the same, and by having Brienne fight the real hound, instead of the fake hound she did in the books, they got to leave out Lady Stoneheart. So, my guess is that it was some parts symbolical, and some parts practical. Not sure how Brienne is going to go out now, but I'm sure they'll find a way. The Hound didn't carry his helmet like the books either, so I guess Brienne fighting the wrong Hound would be difficult to implement without the helmet.



Also, I think the series and the books will part even further next season. I read a theory that they will have different endings, or the same ending with different ways of getting there. To keep the books interesting if the show finishes first.
 
It was a good episode from a show perspective, but I'm a little bit disappointed. No LSH is something I can't for the life of me understand. I have no idea what is up with Lena Headey's picture earlier in the season, then. It seemed like such a perfect way to end a season, one quick scene. Are they going to have it mid season now? They also completely butchered Jaime's prime motivation for the next few seasons, namely his falling out with Tyrion and his knowledge of Cersei's infidelity ("and Moon Boy for all I know").

Also not sure why Bloodraven had two eyes, doesn't seem like it would be that hard to do when they're already giving him enough of a makeover for an Emmy submission. That's a small issue, though.

No Coldhands is a bit sad, but surely we've known that for more than a season now? He's not an essential character, so they cut him.

End scene was great, except I couldn't really appreciate it because I was becoming more and more frustrated that there wasn't going to be time for LSH. They called this the best hour they had ever done, but it clearly wasn't.
 
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No Horn of Joramun or Wildling Prince either, two big plot points in the North. Having said that, it would've been very difficult to fit everything in.

The ending was well executed, but the change to Jaime and Tyrion's farewell was odd. It's completely changed the dynamic of their relationship in a way that can't be reversed now. Time could easily have been taken out from the Dany scene (eg the first supplicant seeking a contract) to accommodate for a more genuine farewell.

Varys aboard the ship is strange; he really is needed in the capital! Let's hope he jumps off quick smart. Disliked that he wasn't the one who prompted Tyrion to go up into the Tower of the Hand either. D&D missed a trick here to drive home that Varys is a major player in the game of thrones.

I have few qualms about the Brienne - Hound duel. It wrapped up how the earlier TV deviations quite well - the Hound is left dying, Brienne is still searching for an Arya who is still missing to the world, and Arya is free to go off on her merry way.
 
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From the point of view of someone who hasn't read the books that was a fantastic episode imo and the end was brilliant. Everything that featured in the finale was done superbly.

As an adaption, it was lacking. No Tysha, no Jaime confessing, Jojen dying, no Stoneheart, Varys travelling etc.. Ideally the end should have been Brienne seeing Stoneheart.

Still overall it was a pretty good finale imo.
 
Also, I thought Mellisandre seeing Jon through the fire was a foreshadowing of Jon being Azor Azai.

JezChan said:
Time could easily have been taken out from the Dany scene (eg the first supplicant seeking a contract) to accommodate for a more genuine farewell.
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IMO the Dany scenes this episode was very well done. They showed how Dany trying to free slaves in a rush was naive and how it had consequences. And of course the Drogon killing that girl was very important part of Dany's character. I think that was the best Dany bit in the entire season.
 
Decent finale, lack of Tysha and Jojen dying for no apparent reason (though IIRC in ADWD he had a greendream which could imply his death) is bollocks. Also, given my misgivings about the Tyrion-Tywin scene I thought they handled it ok, though the show watchers will never know the epicness of THAT line.

Also, not only do we get no STANNIS!, they start playing villain-like music when he appears. I really think D&D just don't "get" Stannis.
 
Red-Man-Walking said:
Decent finale, lack of Tysha and Jojen dying for no apparent reason (though IIRC in ADWD he had a greendream which could imply his death) is bollocks. Also, given my misgivings about the Tyrion-Tywin scene I thought they handled it ok, though the show watchers will never know the epicness of THAT line.

Also, not only do we get no STANNIS!, they start playing villain-like music when he appears. I really think D&D just don't "get" Stannis.
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Tysha not being there was weird especially as they brought her up in previous seasons. Jojen dying is fine by me, he was going to die quite soon anyway.

Of course they don't. Stannis portrayal has been mostly shite but I am still hoping they can the Jon/Stannis parts of next season right.
 
The burnt girl was vital, since it's needed to chain up Viserion and Rhaegal, not just to develop Dany. In the greater context of the entire episode, Dany's character development could have been delayed until next season. There was only one shot at depicting Tyrion's escape, and to do this properly, one scene out of Dany's development/Jaime and Cersei's scene/Tormund and Jon (Ygritte by extension)/Qyburn and the Mountain would have had to go. The reduction or removal of one of these scenes (Dany's is the weakest IMO) would have allowed for more impactful dialogue for Tyrion, which is also more faithful to the books.
 
The last three episodes have pretty much determined that if the shows overtake the books I'll have to stop watching, it remains great television but it's become a shadow of the books as this season has progressed. Almost all of the characters have been oversimplified or changed beyond recognition to the extent that the underlying motivations behind their actions can be called into question.

I wasn't bothered about the Hound dual, I thought it was mostly well executed. But having Tyrion-Jaime leave on good terms, and Varys leaving altogether is just shocking. That moment is critical for both characters, and having Varys remain in KL and ending Kevan's life is a major plot moment.

It's the second time one of the intelligent/scheming characters has been dealt a disservice as well, as if he would on a wim get on the boat rather than have a plan already in place [like he does in the books].

I also don't understand why they had Shae attacking Tyrion, it takes away from his darker transition if he kills her in self defence.

They've nailed Arya though, absolutely spot on.
 
akash02 said:
Tysha not being there was weird especially as they brought her up in previous seasons. Jojen dying is fine by me, he was going to die quite soon anyway.

Of course they don't. Stannis portrayal has been mostly shite but I am still hoping they can the Jon/Stannis parts of next season right.
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Yeah I thought that alright about the Tysha stuff, I'm fairly sure they did go into detail on it at one point. That said, I hated Tyrion's endless obsession over "wherever whores go" post-ASOS, so I'm not overly mad at that line/sequence of dialogue being cut.

I might have reacted a little more angrily than most at Jojen's death, granted he probably would have died off soon enough in the books but I've a strong interest in the Reeds, especially given that Howland is now the only living person to bear witness to Ned Stark's promise at the Tower of Joy, so I figured if that was going anywhere in the books the kids may have some role in that. Apparently, Jojen does not.

On reflection, the Stannis thing may be salvagable, I think my main problem is that due to how that storyline has evolved show watchers have no idea that it's a big fecking deal that Stannis is the only one of the "kings" in Westeros who responded to the threat at the Wall, for me at least he went way up in my estimation after I read that part in the books.
 
Red-Man-Walking said:
Yeah I thought that alright about the Tysha stuff, I'm fairly sure they did go into detail on it at one point. That said, I hated Tyrion's endless obsession over "wherever whores go" post-ASOS, so I'm not overly mad at that line/sequence of dialogue being cut.

I might have reacted a little more angrily than most at Jojen's death, granted he probably would have died off soon enough in the books but I've a strong interest in the Reeds, especially given that Howland is now the only living person to bear witness to Ned Stark's promise at the Tower of Joy, so I figured if that was going anywhere in the books the kids may have some role in that. Apparently, Jojen does not.

On reflection, the Stannis thing may be salvagable, I think my main problem is that due to how that storyline has evolved show watchers have no idea that it's a big fecking deal that Stannis is the only one of the "kings" in Westeros who responded to the threat at the Wall, for me at least he went way up in my estimation after I read that part in the books.
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I find the Reeds interesting as well for the same reasons especially Howland. Remember though, that it was Meera who told all the stories relating to Harrenhall and she's the heir to her father not Jojen. So I've always thought she was more important and Jojen was just a means of delivering Bran to bloodraven. That said, I'd much rather Jojen stay alive in the books. I like the two of them.

Yeah, fully agreed. The King who cared. Next season is almost mainly focused on Stannis/Jon which is why I am hopeful that they can still get him right.
 
The CGI was abysmal in parts as well, but especially with the skeletons and the portrayal of the Mance "100,000". Seems like all the money and effort has been spent on dragons that nobody gives two hoots about this season.
 
I'm more upset about leaving Tysha story out, than the zombie. It changes everything. That was Tyrion's prime motivation for killing Tywin. Now it just seemed forced and illogical. And why the feck did Varys have to get on that ship? He didn't in the books, did he?

It was an entertaining episode, all in all, I suppose, but I'm disappointed with the way they handled the book-to-screen story adaptation.
 
Scarecrow said:
I'm more upset about leaving Tysha story out, than the zombie. It changes everything. That was Tyrion's prime motivation for killing Tywin. Now it just seemed forced and illogical. And why the feck did Varys have to get on that ship? He didn't in the books, did he?

It was an entertaining episode, all in all, I suppose, but I'm disappointed with the way they handled the book-to-screen story adaptation.
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Nope. We don't see him again until he kills Kevan. I expect he'll come with Tyrion till Pentos and then go back to kill Kevan,
 
Scarecrow said:
I'm more upset about leaving Tysha story out, than the zombie. It changes everything. That was Tyrion's prime motivation for killing Tywin. Now it just seemed forced and illogical. And why the feck did Varys have to get on that ship? He didn't in the books, did he?

It was an entertaining episode, all in all, I suppose, but I'm disappointed with the way they handled the book-to-screen story adaptation.
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Varys disappears in the books until the end of ADWD.

But yeah agreed about Tyrion. His characterisation in the show is going to completely deviate from the books, as well as his relationship with Jaime.
 
Tyrion's character has always been whitewashed on the show for whatever reason.
 
Zak Smith said:
The CGI was abysmal in parts as well, but especially with the skeletons and the portrayal of the Mance "100,000". Seems like all the money and effort has been spent on dragons that nobody gives two hoots about this season.
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Yeah, the skeletons were embarrassing. Those grenades the "child" was throwing at them, as well.
 
Some show watchers expecting great action from the Tyrion - Varys "comedy duo" :lol:. Poor bastards.
 
Very good episode however I didn't like the changes that much.

Jojen dying was a bit pointless (not that it matters that much). I guess that he'll die in the next book too. Brynden Rivers looked pretty much like I thought he'll be although probbaly a bit younger than what he is supposed to be (around 140 years old IIRC). What were those creatures that killed Jojen? They weren't the Others, so some pointless additions.

Brianne beating Hound? Why? It was unbelievable and without a need. They could have decided that h just got an ear infection. Anyway, he isn't dead.

Tyrion killing Tywin was done perfectly, regardless that we didn't hear 'Lord Tywin Lannister did not, in the end, shit gold'. Killing Shae was much more spectacular than in the books. Cutting Asha from the show which in some way was supposed to be his motivation for the next season on the other hand... Also Varys travelling with him, another change, but probably it is for the good considering that I like Varys and in this way we will see him in next season. Will there be Kevan or not though in next season, and if yes, how they'll kill him considering thay Varys isn't on KingsLanding.

The Stannis battle was done very well. Fast and furios, however no 'Stannis, Stannis' made me angry.

No Lady Stoneheart? Feck off Lena Headley, biggest troll ever.

Great episode and IMO the best season overall. So many things they shown us in this season and so many important (and less important) characters died or 'died'.
 
Revan said:
Very good episode however I didn't like the changes that much.

Jojen dying was a bit pointless (not that it matters that much). I guess that he'll die in the next book too. Brynden Rivers looked pretty much like I thought he'll be although probbaly a bit younger than what he is supposed to be (around 140 years old IIRC). What were those creatures that killed Jojen? They weren't the Others, so some pointless additions.

Brianne beating Hound? Why? It was unbelievable and without a need. They could have decided that h just got an ear infection. Anyway, he isn't dead.

Tyrion killing Tywin was done perfectly, regardless that we didn't hear 'Lord Tywin Lannister did not, in the end, shit gold'. Killing Shae was much more spectacular than in the books. Cutting Asha from the show which in some way was supposed to be his motivation for the next season on the other hand... Also Varys travelling with him, another change, but probably it is for the good considering that I like Varys and in this way we will see him in next season. Will there be Kevan or not though in next season, and if yes, how they'll kill him considering thay Varys isn't on KingsLanding.

The Stannis battle was done very well. Fast and furios, however no 'Stannis, Stannis' made me angry.

No Lady Stoneheart? Feck off Lena Headley, biggest troll ever.

Great episode and IMO the best season overall. So many things they shown us in this season and so many important (and less important) characters died or 'died'.
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:lol: what?
 
Solius said:
:lol: what?
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He did hurt his ear on one of the previous fights right? I guess they could have done a 'Khal Drogo' with him (like it is on the books, although the injury is more serious) rather than him getting beat by fecking Brienne.

Anyway, that isn't a big problem. Tyrions' no Tysha was the biggest mistake of the episode. The relevation from Jaime that Tysha actually loved here made Tyrion go full mental and kill Shae/Tywin and fakely reveal that he killed Joffrey and tell Jaime that Lancel, Moon Boy and one of the Kingsguard fecked Cersei. Here they let him kill Shae on self defense, really stupid.
 
Revan said:
He did hurt his ear on one of the previous fights right? I guess they could have done a 'Khal Drogo' with him (like it is on the books, although the injury is more serious) rather than him getting beat by fecking Brienne.

Anyway, that isn't a big problem. Tyrions' no Tysha was the biggest mistake of the episode. The relevation from Jaime that Tysha actually loved here made Tyrion go full mental and kill Shae/Tywin and fakely reveal that he killed Joffrey and tell Jaime that Lancel, Moon Boy and one of the Kingsguard fecked Cersei. Here they let him kill Shae on self defense, really stupid.
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I think you're confusing an infected wound with an ear infection. Children get ear infections from the swimming pool.
 
Wasn't the whole reason Tyrion goes back to kill Tywin because of what happened with Tysha? Felt that whole Jaime/Tyrion/Tywin scene was rushed and not done well at all. There was no Stannis cry, boo. Where the feck were Coldhands and Lady Stoneheart? Not a very good ending for me.
 
niMic said:
Don't knock the idea Solius, I think he's on to something. Maybe Tywin could have died from constipation. Joffrey got diabetes from all that pie.
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Replace Jon Snow being stabbed with Jon Snow dying of whooping cough.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Wasn't the whole reason Tyrion goes back to kill Tywin because of what happened with Tysha? Felt that whole Jaime/Tyrion/Tywin scene was rushed and not done well at all. There was no Stannis cry, boo. Where the feck were Coldhands and Lady Stoneheart? Not a very good ending for me.
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Indeed it was, quite a shame that they didn't do it that way.

Feck Colhands! Never cared that much for him.
 
I don't know how you could expect Coldhands. If he was going to happen, he was going to happen last season. It became clear they had simply deemed him surplus to requirements and cut him. And honestly, they're probably not wrong. LSH, though... I'm not going to get over that instagram by Lena Headey.
 
I didn't expect Coldhands at that point and the Skeletons were in the books so that was fine.

The whole Tyrion thing was fecked though. Him and Jaime should've left on terrible terms and the whole Tysha thing should've been in there. I'm assuming they just want to give Varys something to do because he disappears in the books from that point until Kevan.
 
niMic said:
I don't know how you could expect Coldhands. If he was going to happen, he was going to happen last season. It became clear they had simply deemed him surplus to requirements and cut him. And honestly, they're probably not wrong. LSH, though... I'm not going to get over that instagram by Lena Headey.
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She either read the books and decided to troll or she understood that Zombie Cat is coming back next season
 
Solius said:
I didn't expect Coldhands at that point and the Skeletons were in the books so that was fine.

The whole Tyrion thing was fecked though. Him and Jaime should've left on terrible terms and the whole Tysha thing should've been in there. I'm assuming they just want to give Varys something to do because he disappears in the books from that point until Kevan.
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Really? I completely forgot about it. When did it happened?
 
Colhand was a nothing character who'll probably never appear again in the books.
 
JustAFan said:
Then again maybe it will be another way the show differs from the book and they will spend some onscreen time together.
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Yes, I thought about that. I suppose they'll be together at the beginning of next season, as there's surely got to be a reason they put Varys on that ship. However, I don't think it'll be for long, unless they plan a big change from the book plot. Their storylines simply go in different directions.
 
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