I personally don't think we'll see Stannis at the Wall this season. It'll end with some kind of cliffhanger as Jon meets Mance, probably involving some kind of standoff with Rattleshirt. I doubt they'll not show Stannis at all, maybe that'll be some boat scene. The other things they need to include all have a higher significance at the moment than that does, they HAVE to be shown to conclude the respective characters plotline
Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?
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The anchor was almost certainly a nod to GRRM not being allowed to have his chain in the Blackwater episode, due to cost. Well, he got it now.
Also, you need to look at the attack in the context of what they know. The Watch know that the wildlings could simply stroll in and take the place right away if they wanted, but the wildlings aren't exactly sure how well it is defended. Jon said it, they were just testing the defenses.
Now, what I thought silly was that we must have seen scenes of Watch being killed at least fifty times, and there weren't exactly very many to begin with. If they keep this up the election will involve two dozen votes.
I fear this, I also fear that if it is included it will inevitably be over-shadowed by the other events in the episode. Which would be a real shame because for me it's one of the standout moments of the books, almost the perfect redemption for Stannis after his failure at the Blackwater. It's also a huge moment for the overall plot which they are currently failing to translate to the viewer with the show, evident in the show thread.
I am devastated at Pyp's death.
They will probably end Stannis' arc with him reaching Eastwatch and start next season with the battle.
Great episode. A bit Hollywood at times but they handled it pretty well. The cliffhanger for next episode will be Stoneheart, surely? I can't see the Stannis arriving at the Wall happening, I think Jon will meet Mance and his arc will end there for this season. Arya will somehow leave The Hound; that wound will probably be too much and he'll faint somewhere, and the penultimate scene should be Tyrion getting free killing Shae and Tywin. Will we see Bran meet Bloodraven? He hasn't been involved in the past few episodes at all, definitely possible.
I'm pumped.
I'm pumped.
Nice to see Mance in the preview to remind viewers of the threat posed by those north of the Wall. Can't help but feel from the vibe in the TV thread that the storylines have branched out too much for an episodic medium. People being disappointed and saying it was an episode of basically nothing happening - geez they're a demanding lot?
Just watched the preview for ep. 10. What I took from it:
-There are battle scenes between wildlings and some horsemen. That's got to be Stannis's army.
- Arya and the Hound meet someone. I can't remember that from the book.
- Brienne (I think) draws her sword, so that's probably her meeting Lady Stoneheart (not sure about that one)
- Brann reaches the tree.
- The rest is Danny and King's Landing.
-There are battle scenes between wildlings and some horsemen. That's got to be Stannis's army.
- Arya and the Hound meet someone. I can't remember that from the book.
- Brienne (I think) draws her sword, so that's probably her meeting Lady Stoneheart (not sure about that one)
- Brann reaches the tree.
- The rest is Danny and King's Landing.
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There's also a part where someone with a bow walks towards the door... Tyrion, surely.
Translation: this week Tyrion didn't make the funny. Wonder how they'll react if show Tyrion becomes half as annoying as book Tyrion once he escapes, though mercifully a show is likely to be spared an inner monologue of crossbow sounds and "wherever whores go" over and over.
Yep, clearly Tyrion and the crossbow before Tywin on the throne.
Also Tyrion seen through a keyhole - him being rescued by Jaime or him sighting Shae in Tywin's chamber?
The complaints are strange I think. We've got a huge army of wildlings whose main purpose is to get south of the wall away from the White Walkers, I don't think Mance fully cares about taking over Westeros, he just realises they have a better chance beating the Watch than the Walkers. People just want to see Tyrion, Jamie, Cersei etc. The show hasn't managed to convey the message that Westeros is pretty much fecked if they don't help the Watch. I guess they tried to with the interactions between Ygritte and Jon (and with Melisandre's talk about the great darkness) but it won't be until Jon takes over that the show watchers will start to realise what they are facing.
The problem remains that the Wall is an after thought in the show. The same way everyone seems to despise Bran even though he is pretty much one of the most important characters in the books. Hopefully next season will see these story lines take front seat especially with Jamie, Tyrion and others being seperated.
The problem remains that the Wall is an after thought in the show. The same way everyone seems to despise Bran even though he is pretty much one of the most important characters in the books. Hopefully next season will see these story lines take front seat especially with Jamie, Tyrion and others being seperated.
Half the time the show watchers complain that there is too little action and too much talking, now they complain that there is too much action and not enough talking.
I'm sure Wibble liked it, though, and I've started to use him as the TV-show barometer.
I'm sure Wibble liked it, though, and I've started to use him as the TV-show barometer.
The wall is something of an afterthought in the books as well as far as rest of Westeros is concerned so I am not too bothered about that. It fits in a way.
Either the show watchers in the other thread are just trying to be cool by saying they dislike every episode, or they are just a bunch of idiots who don't know what they want. Obviously at least one troll (RN7) and several who have read the books. Starting to wonder why any of them watch the show, all they do is complain about it.
They ought to establish a rule that you are limited to the number of "this episode was awful" complaints from each poster each season. Hit a certain number and obviously you just don't like the show and should stop watching it, let alone talking about it online.
They all deserve to have everything spoiled for them. Not that I plan on doing that.
They ought to establish a rule that you are limited to the number of "this episode was awful" complaints from each poster each season. Hit a certain number and obviously you just don't like the show and should stop watching it, let alone talking about it online.
They all deserve to have everything spoiled for them. Not that I plan on doing that.
Also, laughing at the guy who says he only pays attention to things in the show that are relevant. How do you do that, seeing that you won't know if something is relevant unless you pay attention to it? Certainly he is wumming?
They are going to be unbearable next season when Sam and Gilly travel on the ship with Aemon.
And when two of their favourite characters die next week and Tyrion's storyline descends into nothingness.
Am I the only one who thought that was largely really poor and didn't do any real justice to arguably the greatest battle in the books of all?
Also, just Jon go after Mance in the books? I don't think so?
Also, just Jon go after Mance in the books? I don't think so?
He does go after Mance not to kill him but to treat with him. And he's forced to go there by Slynt and Alliser.
Ah yeah, that's it.
God, just thinking on it now, it was so poor. I've largely up until this point thought that the show did justice to just about every great event in the books, but it got this so wrong on so many levels. Most importantly, it never felt like 100 v 100,000, it felt like a small little battle in the castle of even numbers and then loads of fire on the other side, with a few giants and idiots who thought climbing the wall was a good idea.
Seriously, if you threw that 50 minutes into a big budget hollywood blockbuster, 90% of people would laugh at how shit and cheesy it was. Ygrittes death, Sam and Gilly, Alastair's speech, Pyp's death, the big f*cking giant charging the gate, the hero boy going from scared to arrow shooting expert in a matter of minutes (seriously, what the f*ck?).
God, just thinking on it now, it was so poor. I've largely up until this point thought that the show did justice to just about every great event in the books, but it got this so wrong on so many levels. Most importantly, it never felt like 100 v 100,000, it felt like a small little battle in the castle of even numbers and then loads of fire on the other side, with a few giants and idiots who thought climbing the wall was a good idea.
Seriously, if you threw that 50 minutes into a big budget hollywood blockbuster, 90% of people would laugh at how shit and cheesy it was. Ygrittes death, Sam and Gilly, Alastair's speech, Pyp's death, the big f*cking giant charging the gate, the hero boy going from scared to arrow shooting expert in a matter of minutes (seriously, what the f*ck?).
WEll mostly because the largest part of the 100,000 is on the other side of the wall prevented by the wall from really doing much.. Until the smaller raiding party takes the castle, or the giants break open the gates or the climbers over-run the top of the wall, well there was no point in having 100,000 people storm the wall. In the book this initial battle was really just the Watch v. the Raiding party. Then after that Mance attacks and several attacks are fended off by the Watch before JOn is sent to treat with Mance and the final battle takes place where Stannis shows up to save the day.
So I am not really surprised they did not get to the Stannis showing up bit yet, it will either take place during Jon's meeting with Mance or right after.
I have to stop reading the other thread. There's absolutely no middle ground or perspective. It's either shit or great, which is absurd when you compare it to most of the other drivel that's on TV these days.
GoT has set the bar so high that unless it meets the dizzying heights of a Eddard/RW/BW moment every episode, it's not good enough. feck character progression. They don't deserve GoT. The producers should dedicate the next 2 series entirely to Dany to feck them off.
GoT has set the bar so high that unless it meets the dizzying heights of a Eddard/RW/BW moment every episode, it's not good enough. feck character progression. They don't deserve GoT. The producers should dedicate the next 2 series entirely to Dany to feck them off.
I was just thinking this, plenty of arguments in there. It's absolutely bizarre, how many other programmes offer up this kind of quality on a consistent basis. There can't be much better ways of spending an hour in front of your television. Much better than the BBC/ITV drama churn out over here, better than the TWD and many other U.S shows.
Did anyone think the 1v1 fights in this episode were better than last weeks duel? Like Jon vs the bald meathead and Tormund vs Alliser.
Wasn't perfect, but there was a lot of great stuff in there. The massive thingy destroying parts of the Wall, Sam releasing ghost, the special effects for the mammoths and the giants, Sam telling Pyp to "open the fecking gate" and getting a bit of character progression by opening the gate, along with Thorne getting some ambiguity instead of being a complete dick were all really good. Plus they added some great one-on-one fights between Thorne/Tormund and Jon/weird bald guy.
I think the main problem with it was that it wasn't built up too properly. Despite Jon often being more of an archetypal hero, they seem reluctant to put him in that main hero role and he doesn't get as much time as he should. We should've seen more of the wildlings other than simply slaughtering people to build it up from their part. It was good overall, but I don't think they built it up enough to give it a full episode really. Tying this up with a Bran/Arya scene or two might have worked a bit better I think.
Some of those in the other thread are tedious though. Complain at a lack of action, complain when there is action. I mean there's nothing wrong with criticism and this episode has parts that could be criticised, but some of them seem intent to just say "it was shite" while ignoring the good parts, of which there were quite a few. Don't know why some of em' watch it, if I don't like a show then I give up. They seem to be watching a show that's far from bad, just to complain about how bad they think it is.
I think the main problem with it was that it wasn't built up too properly. Despite Jon often being more of an archetypal hero, they seem reluctant to put him in that main hero role and he doesn't get as much time as he should. We should've seen more of the wildlings other than simply slaughtering people to build it up from their part. It was good overall, but I don't think they built it up enough to give it a full episode really. Tying this up with a Bran/Arya scene or two might have worked a bit better I think.
Some of those in the other thread are tedious though. Complain at a lack of action, complain when there is action. I mean there's nothing wrong with criticism and this episode has parts that could be criticised, but some of them seem intent to just say "it was shite" while ignoring the good parts, of which there were quite a few. Don't know why some of em' watch it, if I don't like a show then I give up. They seem to be watching a show that's far from bad, just to complain about how bad they think it is.
For people who proclaim to dislike the show on such a regular basis they manage to watch the episodes remarkably quickly after airing every single week.
Half of those are trolls, Zak, people like RN7.
Who is this shamans fellow? What a plank.
Who is this shamans fellow? What a plank.
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You disappoint me, Cina. First of all there's no telling how much time had passed there. Secondly it was always pretty obvious to book readers that the kid was going to end up killing Ygritte, particularly since he was specifically referred to as a "arrow shooting expert", in slightly different words.
Also, you didn't like Alliser's (not Alastair's) speech and the giant charging the gate?! I think you've been spending too much time with RN7 and Spoony. If you didn't think it felt like 100,000 versus 100, that must be because it wasn't. Do you not remember how this went in the books?
I mean, I'm not saying it was the best 50 minutes I've ever seen in my life. It wasn't quite as good as Blackwater, on the whole, but parts of it were great.
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I thought the Blackwater episode was underwhelming. This was done much better. Both from a storytelling POV and a cinematic POV. I really did not like the Ygritte death scene. Way to Hollywood cheesy. That's what the masses want though. Definitely prefer the book version.
It was a good episode. Not as good as the books. Few things have. But that's not a slight on the show.
What was poorly done besides Ygritte's death scene:
Having the wildlings on the South side so close to Castle Black and no one noticed that fire they had going. There's basically nothing to see around the castle. A fire is very obvious.
I think the show missed a trick by not having Donal Noye like they missed a trick with Blackfish (too many characters are confusing, I understand. Just thought they picked and chose a bit wrong there). I also thought it was odd in the aftermath how nonchalant Snow was about the ones that saved the inside of the gate. They made a big deal of it to begin with and then just glossed over it.
Ghost has become some sort of a mini deux-ex machina. I'm sure many viewers are thinking "Where's Ghost" and then we get to see her for some seconds. My guess is that CGI cost has something to do with it so it's understandable.
It also seemed to me that they killed Flynt off and by the hands of Gilly no less. That just seems odd.
Thorne, is he properly dead? Don't think that was made clear enough. I think I heard Sam say to Jon that he was dead but I'm not sure if he did and if he did, how could he be sure?
I know this seems like a big deal but I really wasn't that bothered. I quite enjoyed the episode and thought it was good.
It's the show's own fault in a way. They've put the shock value bar so high that people aren't getting their fix when watching a simple epic battle.
I'm worried for the show. The next season will have no real shocks, and there won't be one really until Jon Snow dies.
Yea I agree with this. This episode had a lot of the best stuff on this show so far from a TV making viewpoint. Build up was probably to little. Sometimes it hurts. Didn't hurt with the Mountain. I guess the casting build up his few minutes enough.
It will have some shocks. New Targaryen, Cersei being humiliated, Lady Stoneheart etc, Jorah being a slave etc.
I guess the main thing why a lot of people didn't like it is basically because most of the viewers only care for what's happening in King's Landing and after last episode they probably wanted to know what now happens to Tyrion.
You can bet Lady Stoneheart will feature a bit more in the series, hanging and mutilating various people.
I don't think it even needs "shocks" to be successful either, to be honest. There's plenty of interesting characters and events ready for the next season. Euron and Victarion should make for great TV characters. Aegon will be intriguing to many show watchers. They can do a lot of interesting stuff with Tyrion's (and then Jorah's) journey. Arya's whole ordeal. Dany's war, marriage and all that. Not to mention Cersei has a lot of stuff going on. If they can work some Darkstar and Areo Hotah into it, it will be perfect.
I've largely been very complimentary of the show and its adaptation, bar a few needless hiccups and sideplots, and Spoony and RN7 are just on a WUM, like they always have done in the past with popular shows, so don't mind them, but for me this episode was really lacking and I can understand the frustrations of a lot of viewers. We were given 50 minutes centered purely around the wall and the first 20 of that was mostly revolved around Sam and his cheesy questions about love/sex and dull conversations with Gilly, it really left me bored. I'm not saying there needs to be action, but f*ck, if you're going to spend 20 minutes progressing characters, do it better than that.
Also, that 20 minutes could've been put to better use. Why waste so much time on Sam when Jon was the one they should've focused on for most of the episode, seeing as he was basically he f*cking hero of the whole thing in the books and around 80% of it was from his perspective. It never really felt epic, I know a TV show has a smaller budget than a movie, but Blackwater still felt epic, this didn't. They just didn't grasp the scale of this battle at all, of the wildling army, of the insurmountable task at hand. I'm not saying they should have 100k wildlings blasting towards the wall at once, but I'm pretty sure we got more than 2 giants and a few wall climbing idiots in the books.
I guess I also expected a mammoth hour episode that covered all of the wall (at least, the battle), so the ending was a bit disappointing.
My main complaint, I think they really need to improve on the editing front and cut out/shorten some of these filler scenes.
It's getting to the point where you start to think they exist purely to meet contractual obligations with the actors/actresses and the amount of screen time they receive per season.
I am completely with you on the end. If they're going to spend an entire episode on it, I think it would be best if it ended with Stannis. Maybe not even with know it was Stannis, but at least having mystery knights swooping in. Maybe they didn't want to emulate the Blackwater too much with someone riding in to save the day at the very end.
A little bit of the problem with how it was written in the book, is that I'm pretty sure it had wildling archers shooting arrows up to the wall. Which is obviously physically impossible. I think the whole "man firing a bow and coming miserably short, giant firing a bow and nailing someone to the other side of the Kingdom" bit was a nod to that. Realistically, the entire Wall battle was a bit silly in the books as well, so I can understand why it's hard to make it seem reasonable in the show.
I agree on how it "felt", but this definitely had more and better fighting sequences than Blackwater. It's just that it's much easier to give the impression of a battle when you've got two sides that aren't completely mismatched, and fairly regular-sized city wall. This episode was much better in actual fighting scenes, though. And I absolutely loved the giants.
The two main fight scenes and the giants were great, yeah, other than that, it was very meh, for me anyway. I expected a lot more from it, maybe I expected too much.