A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

[parkthebuslads]

Pochettino getting stick for not winning something with this Spurs side seems rather harsh; it's only a consideration due to the outstanding work he's done with their first team.

It's also easy to look at how strong their team is and forget about the limitations of their squad, something he has little control over.

 

[The Don]

Pochettino getting stick for not winning something with this Spurs side seems rather harsh; it's only a consideration due to the outstanding work he's done with their first team.

It's also easy to look at how strong their team is and forget about the limitations of their squad, something he has little control over.

They definitely should be doing better, when according to some on here, over half their team are the best in their positions, in the league.

 

[Fridge chutney]

We were not in for Kane because Kane wasn't available. Spurs neither needed nor wanted to sell, and Kane is demonstrably happy at Spurs.

Lukaku is great. But he's not Kane. And I think Mourinho would have tried to get Kane had he become available.

 

[Womp]

Surely Poch gets credit for improving the players? Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Rose, Walker, Dier, Dembele, Kane, Son, Eriksen, have all improved outrageously and are all playing the best football of their careers under Poch. Son was signed for 20 million and is now one of the best wide attacking forwards in the league, his improvement is such that he is in amongst the very best wide players in this league both assists and goals wise.

It doesn't really wash that you say the players are good anyway. Rose, Walker were not among the best full backs in the league before Poch came along, now they are. You say Spurs have the best defence and one of the best attacks, surely that is down to Poch's excellent organisation, management and tactical preperation. It doesn't happen by accident.

Gary Neville and Carragher have said time and again over the last few years Spurs are the best coached side in the league, well, before City went crazy this season under Pep.

It's there clear as day he improves players as good as any other manager in the league for sure, in fact he's easily one of the best. When was the last time Wenger improved a player for example? All the players regress under him.

He still has Spurs in touch with the top 4 despite playing 23 away games so far this season. I actually think people are being ridiculously harsh on him and its a classic case of people trying to bring him down because he was so highly regarded, he's doing a tremendous job.

Two things: 1. It's not down purely to Poch's management. Yes he's allowed them to flourish but the players had it in them, he can't turn shite into superstars, these are genuine top class players. It's why he's failed with some players. It's why players like Eriksen were so highly rated before Spurs, why players like Alli tore United a new one when we played against MK Dons. So yes, while he's probably allowed them to flourish, it's rubbish to simply say it's down to Poch. Therefore more should be expected, he's hardly turning a squad of turds into top four material. A squad as good as this Spurs team should be in and around the top 4.

Secondly, even if that is the case, there's more to management than improving players. Being able to galvanize squads, keep players focused, maintain egos etc. is all part of the job. It's no use being able to improve players if they bottle it when it matters most. So while he should be credited for improving the players, he should also be judged for allowing his squad to be nearly men for a few seasons now.

This is probably the most talented team Spurs have ever had and it coincided with a time when a lot of their direct rivals were going through major changes/being shite. The fact that they didn't win a title, let alone properly challenge for one is nothing short of a disappointment. You can paint it however you like. Leicester won the title in that time ffs.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

He's not as good as of the past 4 seasons, not as good on form currently. Over the course of his career id say Kane is better, Costa's best season was his 13/14 season for Atletico where he posted 27 goals in 35 appearances. Before that season he never posted more than 10 goals in a season despite appearance numbers like 34, 28, 16, 31

If you stick strictly to hitting the back of the net yes. But with Costa and Griezmann that was NEVER my argument. It was impact and importance. On both impact and importance 3 times Costa has achieved things for his sides that Kane never has
. Both for importance of goals and assisting. That is the reason I currently rate both above him as players. He is a more frequent scorer than both but he hasn't proven better than both yet, in my opinion.

You would have to include every players first season where they are finding their feet in their respective leagues if I included this season for Kane.

I really don't. Here is why: first, I was asked a specific question as to why Aubamayang is as good or better than Kane. In that particular argument both started to score goals for their current clubs the same season. There is no good reason why I should reach all the way to Aubameyang's earlier years, for the comparison is pretty balanced.

Second, 2013/14 can comfortably pass as a"finding feet in the league" year for him since it was his first as an out and out striker. For previously he was used down the right wing as a wide forward/winger.

For example Griezmann's first season with Sociedad in La Liga was the 10/11 season where he had 37 appearances for 7 goals.

I should warn you
that is unlikely to work in Kane's favour. Remember Griezmann started put as a pure winger, so would come off even worse in a direct comparison of finding feet years.

Likewise Auba's first season where he was finding his feet was St. Etienne in 10/11 after he had finished loan spells with Dijon, Lille, and Monaco. In that season he made 14 appearances for 2 goals.

Aubamayang was playing as a wide forward.

Costas first season in La Liga(09/10) for Valldolid seen him post 8 goals in 34 appearances.

He is probably the only one whose start is comparable to Kane's.

You are looking at a 20 yo player just integrating into the team and finding his feet in the EPL. His breakout season where he really came to attention was the 2014/15 season. I'd barely heard of him until that season, i knew he was a youth product that had a good scoring pedigree and did some loan spells but knew very little about him up until 14/15.

Fair enough. However of you are going to use break out seasons you should pick them across the board. Starting with Aubameyang and his first as a starting forward in his last year at St Etienne. Griezmann's final year at Soiceded and Costa's first proper year at Atletico in 2012/13. That would then be fair and balanced rather starting from the vantage point of when Kane started to really be noticed.

Because they are scattered for the players between Champions league/Europa league against varied opposition, scoring a brace vs Trabzonspor in the Europa league is not the same as netting against Barca or RM. There was too much variance in opposition, I felt the leagues were more stable opposition wise. I also left out assists, as I was looking mainly at goals as that is what strikers deal in. I also didnt bother to mention dominance of teams in respective leagues such as Cavani's stats as a money bags team in the French league or Barca's dominance and the effects that could have on say Suarez's stats.

This is my last post on the Kane subject as the thread is about Pochettino, not Kane or Spurs.

Ok

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Icardi/Costa better than Kane? You must be one of the only people in Europe who think that.

Yet another Kane fan boy7

First Icardi was on a list I put up that had players a) as good or b) better than Kane. You have assumed all on your own I counted Icardi > Kane. But Im certain he is seen in Europe as just as good. That is why Real is eying him just as much as Kane for their lead striker role.

Second, you are pretty delusional if you believe in the seasons in which Diego Costa produced his best, that bagged his teams league trophies, and continental honor Kane was even considered as good.

If Kane was playing for Chelsea last season they would have walked the league by an even greater margin. Get real.

Fanboish
Bullshit. If Costa hadnt spent the second half of the season sulking he would have kept pace with he likes of Kane in the race for league top scorer. After all in spite of a major mid season sulk he finished just 9 goals behind

The fact you judge a striker's level by how many trophies they win shows your deluded thinking. In your book, because Costa won a league, and Kane won nothing, Costa is better. It's pure nonsense.

Puerile thinking again. I judge strikers in the impact and weight of their goal scoring. Same way UEFA does in their golden shoe rankings. I'm sorry it doesnt work
your "Kane is best' frame work. But its
certainly not nonsense. Me putting Kane above a Costa just because he scores more, i s up there with claiming at world cup 94 Oleg Sakenko > Romario Faria just because he too scored. Yet Romario spread his goals through out the tournament, leading his
team to the final and to glory, whilst Salenko plundered most of his in a dead rubber vs a hapless Cameroon.

Aubameyang is playing in a weaker league than the PL, Kane is scoring more goals in a tougher league.

A very convenient excuse negated by the fact Aubameyang also outscores him in European competition.

Aubameyang is a terrific striker but Kane is better.

In YOUR opinion mate. Yours.

Harry Kane has overtaken Lionel Messi to finish as Europe’s top scorer in 2017 with 56 goals.

The Tottenham striker gave himself a solid chance to overtake the Barcelona forward by scoring a hat-trick against Burnley on Saturday.


Kane equalled Messi on 54 goals for club and country in 2017 with his opener against Southampton on Boxing Day, but then moved ahead of the Argentine by completing his hat-trick at Wembley.


Not only has Kane beaten Messi to the record, he’s also finished ahead of Cristiano Ronaldo, Robert Lewandowski and Edinson Cavani.

Err yeah, those are Messi like numbers.

er what? The European golden shoe winner of 2016/2017 was Messi and the top 3 were Messi, Aubameyang and Bas Dost.

This season the top 3 the 15th of this month were Immobile, Kane and Cavani with Messi down in 6th but just 3 goals behind and unlikely to stat there post winter break.


I find it uber convenient that Kane fans like to look at goal scoring from Jan to December
. As if any season runs like hat and as if Kane doesn't have the advantage of no winter break.

Now Im down floodimg this thread with Kane. Back to Pochetino....

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

One moment Pochettino is an amazing coach for making Kane, Alli, Eriksen, Wanyama etc. into great players, the next moment he can't challenge for the title because he needs money to buy great players. Whatever makes Pochettino look good is what will be the 'correct' answer.

Virtually everyone will ignore the obvious because it breaks their fantasy. Pochettino does not need £150m+ for a top striker and CAM because he has Kane and Eriksen, He does not need £50m for a DM because he has Dier, He does not need £50m for a CB or FB because he has Alder, Vertonghen, Rose, Trippier. Nevermind Son and Alli who would cost a fortune in this market to replace.

This Spurs team are VERY good and have every right to challenge for silverware. The fact that Spurs can't spend as much as their rivals is of little consequence because they have a team with an EXTREMELY high market value.

In my opinion; the above only leads to one conclusion. Pochettino is a very good developer of players (and he deserves credit getting Spurs to where they are) but is lacking in other key areas to make him a top manager. I would say with conviction that Mourinho would win silverware with this Spurs team if he tookover next season; because he did it with a clearly inferior team last season.

spot on

 

[roonster09]

Surely Poch gets credit for improving the players? Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Rose, Walker, Dier, Dembele, Kane, Son, Eriksen, have all improved outrageously and are all playing the best football of their careers under Poch. Son was signed for 20 million and is now one of the best wide attacking forwards in the league, his improvement is such that he is in amongst the very best wide players in this league both assists and goals wise.

It doesn't really wash that you say the players are good anyway. Rose, Walker were not among the best full backs in the league before Poch came along, now they are. You say Spurs have the best defence and one of the best attacks, surely that is down to Poch's excellent organisation, management and tactical preperation. It doesn't happen by accident.

Gary Neville and Carragher have said time and again over the last few years Spurs are the best coached side in the league, well, before City went crazy this season under Pep.

It's there clear as day he improves players as good as any other manager in the league for sure, in fact he's easily one of the best. When was the last time Wenger improved a player for example? All the players regress under him.

He still has Spurs in touch with the top 4 despite playing 23 away games so far this season. I actually think people are being ridiculously harsh on him and its a classic case of people trying to bring him down because he was so highly regarded, he's doing a tremendous job.

I don't think anyone will downplay the work Poch did at Spurs and how he has improved almost everyone. Now the hard part is done, he has players who are among the best in PL in almost every position.

So now isn't it normal to expect them to win things as players have improved and among the best in position or we have to keep on using net spend argument to excuse lack of trophies?

 

[Dominant]

God, some of stuffs posted here by our own fans are really embarrassing. Why the constant belittling of spurs? Due to this one specific spurs fan? He must really have would the whole lot of you up then. Some of the posts posted are so bitter than I thought we are on an arsenal forum!

I read someone posted "You are spurs, know your place." Wow! seriously? Cringe-worthy stuff. Just because you support a bigger club means you go around belittling smaller clubs on their achievements and optimism? The sense of entitlement and superiority in that short sentence itself is fecking through the roof. In any case, Spurs finished above us for the past 2 seasons, so i seriously dont get where this sense of superiority is coming from. it's fans like that which make people hate us.

Did I also read some joker saying that Kane is not as good as Icardi, Costa or Aubamayang? Again, seriously? Well you dont need statistics to prove who is the better striker. Just ask yourself this question: if we could get one of these 4 strikers for Man Utd, who would you go for? The choice is bloody obvious right? But sure, some clowns (sorry Conte) would choose Costa. Yeah Right.

 

[Slevs]

Good serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

Spoiler

 

[Primativ]

Yet another Kane fan boy7

First Icardi was on a list I put up that had players a) as good or b) better than Kane. You have assumed all on your own I counted Icardi > Kane. But Im certain he is seen in Europe as just as good. That is why Real is eying him just as much as Kane for their lead striker role.

Second, you are pretty delusional if you believe in the seasons in which Diego Costa produced his best, that bagged his teams league trophies, and continental honor Kane was even considered as good.


Fanboish
Bullshit. If Costa hadnt spent the second half of the season sulking he would have kept pace with he likes of Kane in the race for league top scorer. After all in spite of a major mid season sulk he finished just 9 goals behind
Puerile thinking again. I judge strikers in the impact and weight of their goal scoring. Same way UEFA does in their golden shoe rankings. I'm sorry it doesnt work
your "Kane is best' frame work. But its
certainly not nonsense. Me putting Kane above a Costa just because he scores more, i s up there with claiming at world cup 94 Oleg Sakenko > Romario Faria just because he too scored. Yet Romario spread his goals through out the tournament, leading his
team to the final and to glory, whilst Salenko plundered most of his in a dead rubber vs a hapless Cameroon.

A very convenient excuse negated by the fact Aubameyang also outscores him in European competition.


In YOUR opinion mate. Yours.

er what? The European golden shoe winner of 2016/2017 was Messi and the top 3 were Messi, Aubameyang and Bas Dost.

This season the top 3 the 15th of this month were Immobile, Kane and Cavani with Messi down in 6th but just 3 goals behind and unlikely to stat there post winter break.


I find it uber convenient that Kane fans like to look at goal scoring from Jan to December
. As if any season runs like hat and as if Kane doesn't have the advantage of no winter break.

Now Im down floodimg this thread with Kane. Back to Pochetino....

Completely impossible to debate with someone so deluded. IF Costa didn't have a breakdown he would have kept pace with Kane? LOL, nonsense like that is why what you write is so demented. In 9 seasons as a striker in La Liga and the PL he has had only 1 season where he hit 27 goals in 34 games. Kane has had 3 of those seasons in his first 3 full seasons in the PL. SO you understand what that means, Kane is head and shoulders above Costa as a striker and goalscorer.

Oh Costa only finished 9 goals behind WAH WAH WAH, well if Kane didn't miss 6 weeks of the season form injury he would have finished even further ahead.

In every season Costa played in the PL, Kane outscored him. This is despite Chelsea being league champions in two of those 3 seasons. This is despite Kane being a young striker making his way in the league and Costa being a seasoned experienced striker at his peak.

So your assertion that Costa would have kept up with Kane IF he didn't have a breakdown is just pure unadulterated nonsense with no basis in reality, and no evidence of history to back up. Put simply, you are writing any old rubbish and using any old excuse to try to validate your opinion that Costa is better than Kane.

With regards to Aubemeyang I can't even be bothered, no one on this site with sane rationale would prefer him over Kane in their side. Not to mention he is just a poacher/goalscorer, he is not a complete striker like Kane who can play no 10 and no 9 equally well. Not to mention he has huge attitude problems, and is disliked in the dressing room, this ALL adds up to why Kane is superior, not to mention Kane is still young and now outscoring him, while Auba is at his peak.

Ask yourself this, would Arsenal fans prefer to sign Aubemeyang over Kane? No. Arsenal fans would give their right arm to have Kane in their side. Same with every single top side in Europe. The fact that Arsenal even have a chance of signing Aubemeyang show he isn't even wanted by the absolute elite clubs in Europe. Imagine Kane wanted out at Spurs and a Europa League side who finished 5th in La Liga or Germany were the only side who had a clear run at him. No? You can't can you, it's impossible. If Kane was ever available the biggest clubs in the world would want him, and pay a world record fee for it most likely.

 

[roonster09]

I don't how anyone can argue that Kane isn't better than Icardi, Costa, Auba is beyond me. Kane is a complete package, scores goals, links up well and plays very good passes. He is very strong and deceptively quick enough.

Can't find a weakness in his game. He is easily better than the 3 mentioned. I'm struggling to name a pure striker who is better than Kane. Only players I can think of is Lewandowski.

 

[UnitedRoadRed]

For all those saying that Pochettino can't be judged on not winning the title because of resources, etc., then why aren't you wanking off Ranieri instead, who actually won the title with far fewer resources?

 

[Primativ]

I don't think anyone will downplay the work Poch did at Spurs and how he has improved almost everyone. Now the hard part is done, he has players who are among the best in PL in almost every position.

So now isn't it normal to expect them to win things as players have improved and among the best in position or we have to keep on using net spend argument to excuse lack of trophies?

I agree, he does have to take that step over the line to win stuff to prove himself as the real deal so to speak. We can make the argument that he is competing against other sides who have far bigger squads and spend more money. You can't just ignore net spend and the like. Chelsea won the league last season because they had no european competition. Spurs were fighting on four fronts. That same reason also affected City, United, Liverpool and Arsenal. This season City who already had the best squad in the league, spent hundreds of millions more, and now are walking the league and doing great in the CL. That is what having unlimited funds does to you. How can Spurs compete with that? It's very difficult.

However, why didn't Spurs beat Chelsea in the FA Cup last season? It wasn't due to netspend, we fielded our best 11 Chelsea rested Hazard and Costa first half yet we still didn't win. That is down to Poch. He does have to prove he has what it takes to win key games needed to win trophies. He hasn't as yet. As a Spurs fan it is a legitimate criticism and one I have made myself.

 

[SambaBoy]

I think some people overrate Poch as a manager and some underrate him massively as well. This season was always going to be tough for Spurs, a lack of investment compared to the other clubs around them and playing at a new stadium.

To get top four for the next 3-4 seasons and consolidate themselves within the CL should be the aim. The top four is very difficult to get into now, and it's changing every season. The likes of United, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal have all finished outside it in the last few seasons so it shows it is a tough ask.

Once Spurs can be recognised as one of the best English clubs and one of the top 10-15 in Europe then they can go for the bigger players and set bigger aims such as the PL title and CL. Progress isn't necessarily doing better than last year depending on the circumstances. Spurs just have to keep their best players and they will be ok. Kane, Alli, Eriksen, Alderweireld, Vertonghen and Lloris need to be at the club for the foreseeable future.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Do u think most fans are happy with the performances? That's. It the feeling I get at all. Spending so much but falling so far off City, that's not United at all.

Sorry I must have missed this notification. I can't really speak for anyone else but I am for the most part. City have had a great season up till January. We've spent money for decades.

 

[Oldyella]

People are really trying to play down Kane here. The guy is a goal scoring machine who also links up play to a decent level and works hard running channels while also being able to threaten the goal from distance. Every club side in the world would jump to sign him if they could afford him.

Spurs are a decent side but would they be anywhere near as good with a Morata etc up top for them? Very doubtful.

As for Poch, good manager but his playing weakend teams in the cups is baffling, they really need to win something.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Kane is world class. Lewandowski is better in my opinion but other than him I'd be clutching at straws to think of someone else.

 

[hellohello]

People are really trying to play down Kane here. The guy is a goal scoring machine who also links up play to a decent level and works hard running channels while also being able to threaten the goal from distance. Every club side in the world would jump to sign him if they could afford him.

Spurs are a decent side but would they be anywhere near as good with a Morata etc up top for them? Very doubtful.

As for Poch, good manager but his playing weakend teams in the cups is baffling, they really need to win something.

I think this is more of a myth more than anything (with the exception when he played a weakened team in the EL against Dortmund when we were chasing Leicester). He does field strong teams, sometimes resting one or two players like anyone else, but that's about it.

My view of Poch is that he has been an incredibly good manager to get Spurs to where we are now. He instilled a new mentality and managed to assemble an incredibly well drilled, talented young side on a very low budget. It remains to be seen if he can take us the last step, and to do that he will need to improve on his big game management.

 

[AP88]

Yup, il stick with him. This season has been tricky with the stadium situation. Over the past few seasons we have always finished stronger so we're still in top 4 contention. Next month is a massive one however.

Honestly I have no idea, if I'm honest I would say Jose probably would. We couldn't attract a manager of that pedigree anyway, we have to go with a manager who's willing to work without a war chest. I'm not a De Boar fan TBH, failed at Inter and Palace, yes he should have been given more time but I just don't warm to the guy.

You’re doing your club down here mate - Pocchettino might not have had infinite resources, but he inherited Lloris, Walker, Rose, Dembele, Kane, Eriksen, Vertonghen, and has been allowed to recruit top talent like Alderweireld and Wanyama; I know he has improved them to an extent, but that’s overstated as they were all naturally approaching their peak anyway.

I personally think you’ve reached a ceiling under him now, and that moronic book he released earlier in the season was weird. I’d like to see Spurs finish above the oil clubs every season, but I’m not sure it will happen without a new, more pragmatic approach. He has been awful against the top 6 - I was at the City game last month and his high press with 50 yards in between was moronic, as were his decisions to start Trippier as an orthodox right back against Sane and Dier in a central two; he’s a bit too one-dimensional for me. Great developer of talent and good principles, but lacks the tactical IQ of a Rafa, a Mourinho or even a Mancini/Ranieri (who had the required pragmatism to get the job done, despite not being great coaches)

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Completely impossible to debate with someone so deluded. IF Costa didn't have a breakdown he would have kept pace with Kane? LOL,

You clearly are a WUM. At what point did I say Costa had a break down? Not only do you have a weird fanboish obsession with Kane you have now added the stupid behaviour of inventing arguments for people.

Heaven knows how going on strike and sulking = having a break down

nonsense like that is why what you write is so demented.

The only clearly demented individual is you, pal. You are the one attacking arguments and logic you invented all on your own.

In 9 seasons as a striker in La Liga and the PL he has had only 1 season where he hit 27 goals in 34 games. Kane has had 3 of those seasons in his first 3 full seasons in the PL. SO you understand what that means, Kane is head and shoulders above Costa as a striker and goalscorer.

In YOUR opinion. 3 times Costa's goal scoring has led his team either to a league title, plus continental glory and a champions league final. Even more striking is the fact in a more financially weaker, more defensive team than Spurs, he was still able to hit at least 20 league goals in a season whilst at ATM. I don't give a flying fig what statistics yo try to argue with. Kane isn't a better player than an inform Diego Costa. Not yet.

Oh Costa only finished 9 goals behind WAH WAH WAH, well if Kane didn't miss 6 weeks of the season form injury he would have finished even further ahead.

Sure like he never ever has goal droughts. Oh wait, he never scores in the first months of the season....

In every season Costa played in the PL, Kane outscored him. This is despite Chelsea being league champions in two of those 3 seasons. This is despite Kane being a young striker making his way in the league and Costa being a seasoned experienced striker at his peak.

And in all those seasons Costa goals had a bigger impact on his teams fortunes. You can repeat that line of argument forever. It wont change shit.

So your assertion that Costa would have kept up with Kane IF he didn't have a breakdown is just pure unadulterated nonsense with no basis in reality, and no evidence of history to back up

Pretty much. Because the notion I ever claimed Costa had a break down is exactly unadulterated nonsense, that has no evidence in any version of history nor any basis in reality, pulled from the depth of your unhinged mind.

With regards to Aubameyang I can't even be bothered, no one on this site with sane rationale would prefer him over Kane in their side.

That is because Kane is : 1) Younger 2) English 3) Already a premier league super star and would need no settling in time whatsoever. That does not in any shape or form count as proof Kane > Aubameyang. Unless of course you are engaging the imbecilic knowledge of fanboism

Not to mention he is just a poacher/goalscorer,....

Aubameyang since 2013/2014 has out assisted Kane. No to mention he first rose to prominence as a right sided attacker before he was moved centrally by Dortmund. But supposedly "he is just a poacher" . Im done wasting time with your nonesense

 

[AP88]

They wouldn't have developed Spurs's squad into title contenders. Poch has coached and improved many players to levels most didn't forsee.

I agree and disagree.....and that’s why while I feel while he’s done the first stage of the project in a manner that they maybe couldn’t have, because he’s a committed developer of talent, they can now do what he can’t in terms of turning potential in success.

Let’s not pretend that the players he has inherited weren’t destined to be world class anyway. Eriksen was highly regarded from his teens, Walker is a former young player of the year, Lloris was already French number 1 who’d had success at Lyon, Vertonghen was linked with big money moves to city pre-Pocch, Alderweireld was only deemed surplus at Atlético because they were winning the league and reaching Champions League finals with Godin and Miranda as the established defensive pairing.

Dembele was quality for Fulham, while Harry Kane’s attitude and dedication is universally praised by all in the game, and had shown signs of his quality under Sherwood - I think he’d be a great forward, regardless of who’s coaching him.

Does he deserve credit? Of course. Is he beyond scrutiny and immune to criticism if he doesn’t utilise the very good squad of players he has to the point of winning trophies? He certainly shouldn’t be, because Tottenham is now a club set up to win.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

You’re doing your club down here mate - Pocchettino might not have had infinite resources, but he inherited Lloris, Walker, Rose, Dembele, Kane, Eriksen, Vertonghen, and has been allowed to recruit top talent like Alderweireld and Wanyama; I know he has improved them to an extent, but that’s overstated as they were all naturally approaching their peak anyway.

I personally think you’ve reached a ceiling under him now, and that moronic book he released earlier in the season was weird. I’d like to see Spurs finish above the oil clubs every season, but I’m not sure it will happen without a new, more pragmatic approach. He has been awful against the top 6 - I was at the City game last month and his high press with 50 yards in between was moronic, as were his decisions to start Trippier as an orthodox right back against Sane and Dier in a central two; he’s a bit too one-dimensional for me. Great developer of talent and good principles, but lacks the tactical IQ of a Rafa, a Mourinho or even a Mancini/Ranieri (who had the required pragmatism to get the job done, despite not being great coaches)

I guess time will tell, I just know finding a manager that fits the club is incredibly difficult. What was wrong with the book? I have read it and TBH there is nothing in it most people didn't know.

 

[Primativ]

You clearly are a WUM. At what point did I say Costa had a break down? Not only do you have a weird fanboish obsession with Kane you have now added the stupid behaviour of inventing arguments for people.

Heaven knows how going on strike and sulking = having a break down

The only clearly demented individual is you, pal. You are the one attacking arguments and logic you invented all on your own.

In YOUR opinion. 3 times Costa's goal scoring has led his team either to a league title and continental glory. Even more striking is the fact in a more financially weaker, more defensive team than Spurs, he was still able to hit at least 20 league goals in a season whilst at ATM. I don't give a flying fig what statistics yo try to argue with. Kane isn't a better player than an inform Diego Costa. Not yet.
Sure like he never ever has goal droughts. Oh wait, he never scores in the first months of the season....
And in all those seasons Costa goals had a bigger impact on his teams fortunes. You can repeat that line of argument forever. It wont change shit.

Pretty much. Because the notion I ever claimed Costa had a break down is exactly unadulterated nonsense, that has no evidence in any version of history nor any basis in reality, pulled from the depth of your unhinged mind.


That is because Kane is : 1) Younger 2) English 3) Already a premier league super star and would need no settling in time whatsoever. That does not in any shape or form count as proof Kane > Aubameyang. Unless of course you are engaging the imbecilic knowledge of fanboism



Aubameyang since 2013/2014 has out assisted Kane. No to mention he first rose to prominence as a right sided attacker before he was moved centrally by Dortmund. But supposedly "he is just a poacher" . Im done wasting time with your nonesense

I think you are taking my breakdown comment a little too literally. He had a falling out with Conte and a BREAKDOWN in relationship. I didn't mean he literally had a breakdown. FACEPALM.

I can't tell if you are being serious on purpose, but think about this, 99% of football fans across europe would prefer to have Kane, because he's the better striker. Just let that sink in for a while about why that is.

I don't care what excuses you come up with about why Costa doesn't score more, the fact is, he doesn't, and the fact is, Kane does. He outscores pretty much all of the strikers across Europe. Your defence of a striker who is quite clearly below the top tier of strikers, a la Costa, is actually the epitome of fanboism and delusion. Oh the irony.

Are you seriously trying to tell me Aubameyang has a better all round game than Kane? AHahahaha. You are clueless.

 

[Duafc]

You just know when you see half a dozen and someone going “aHahahahHahHahaha” all rational argument has long gone.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Kane scored more club goals in calendar year 2017 than any other top-league player on the planet, including Messi and Ronaldo. And yet this thread is filled with dumb posts from @Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber listing any number of strikers/forwards who are supposedly better than Kane

And all in vain attempts to explain why Mourinho went for Lukaku instead of Kane and avoid the real reason, namely that Kane simply wasn't for sale.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

I think you are taking my breakdown comment a little too literally. He had a falling out with Conte and a BREAKDOWN in relationship. I didn't mean he literally had a breakdown. FACEPALM.

I can't tell if you are being serious on purpose, but think about this, 99% of football fans across europe would prefer to have Kane, because he's the better striker. Just let that sink in for a while about why that is.

I don't care what excuses you come up with about why Costa doesn't score more, the fact is, he doesn't, and the fact is, Kane does. He outscores pretty much all of the strikers across Europe. Your defence of a striker who is quite clearly below the top tier of strikers, a la Costa, is actually the epitome of fanboism and delusion. Oh the irony.

Are you seriously trying to tell me Aubameyang has a better all round game than Kane? AHahahaha. You are clueless.

Except you just made that up. I couldn't care less about who is better but that is just terrible.

 

[Denis79]

Kane scored more club goals in calendar year 2017 than any other top-league player on the planet, including Messi and Ronaldo. And yet this thread is filled with dumb posts from @Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber listing any number of strikers/forwards who are supposedly better than Kane

And all in vain attempts to explain why Mourinho went for Lukaku instead of Kane and avoid the real reason, namely that Kane simply wasn't for sale.

He went for Lukaku because Kane wasn't available. We all know that. We needed several players and couldn't splash the whole transfer budget on a player not likely to join us anyways. I'm happy with Lukaku honestly, he's not as good as Kane but he'll be great for us, especially when we get a few more players in. Sanchez one of them.

 

[RooneyLegend]

I agree and disagree.....and that’s why while I feel while he’s done the first stage of the project in a manner that they maybe couldn’t have, because he’s a committed developer of talent, they can now do what he can’t in terms of turning potential in success.

Let’s not pretend that the players he has inherited weren’t destined to be world class anyway. Eriksen was highly regarded from his teens, Walker is a former young player of the year, Lloris was already French number 1 who’d had success at Lyon, Vertonghen was linked with big money moves to city pre-Pocch, Alderweireld was only deemed surplus at Atlético because they were winning the league and reaching Champions League finals with Godin and Miranda as the established defensive pairing.

Dembele was quality for Fulham, while Harry Kane’s attitude and dedication is universally praised by all in the game, and had shown signs of his quality under Sherwood - I think he’d be a great forward, regardless of who’s coaching him.

Does he deserve credit? Of course. Is he beyond scrutiny and immune to criticism if he doesn’t utilise the very good squad of players he has to the point of winning trophies? He certainly shouldn’t be, because Tottenham is now a club set up to win.

Youngsters can be highly rated but them having that potential and then fulfilling it are two different things. There's a reason some coaches are renowned for having the capabilities to help that process(see Sir Alex) and some don't(see jose)

 

[AR87]

Youngsters can be highly rated but them having that potential and then fulfilling it are two different things. There's a reason some coaches are renowned for having the capabilities to help that process(see Sir Alex) and some don't(see jose)

The reason Sir Alex is renowned for it is he won titles. Poch hasn't done that and that's okay when you look at the entirety of the circumstances, but until he does win something there will justifiably be concerns over how great he is no matter how good he is at nurturing young talent.

 

[adexkola]

Glaston has done a number on some of you mentally when it comes to speaking about anything Spurs related. To suggest Pochettino is doing anything less than a great job at Spurs is simply ignorant.

 

[adexkola]

but lacks the tactical IQ of a Rafa, a Mourinho or even a Mancini/Ranieri (who had the required pragmatism to get the job done, despite not being great coaches)

This in particular doesn't make any sense. Are you suggesting the difference between Pochettino and the managers mentioned lie in parking the bus?

 

[RooneyLegend]

I have to agree. Some of the replies in this thread are embarrassing. Poch is a very good manager and has Tottenham playing very good football. Considering what he did with Southhampton and the resources of Tottenham compared to the other Top 6 clubs, I think it's safe to say he's overachieved as a manager.

The "XYZ manager isn't good because he hasn't won anything yet" claims are nothing more than lazy arguments that show a lack of critical thinking.

My personal favorite:



Poch worse than a coach sacked less than a year after winning the league? Surely a wind-up.

It's ridiculous, especially at a time when the game is going through somewhat of a tactical revolution. Conte before Juve had won nothing, Pep before Barca had won nothing, Zidane before Madrid had won nothing, Allegri before Milan had won nothing, these are some of the highest rated coaches in world football who are now considered serial winners. It's the sort of thinking that ends up with clubs like us hiring the likes of Van Gaal. You can see with the league campaigns that some coaches put together that they are quality also with the style of the sides and ability to execute such tactics. Why some can't see how good a coach would need to be to turn Spurs into a consistent top 4 side instead of him winning a pointless cup like a league cup is quite shocking.

 

[AP88]

It's ridiculous, especially at a time when the game is going through somewhat of a tactical revolution. Conte before Juve had won nothing, Pep before Barca had won nothing, Zidane before Madrid had won nothing, Allegri before Milan had won nothing, these are some of the highest rated coaches in world football who are now considered serial winners. It's the sort of thinking that ends up with clubs like us hiring the likes of Van Gaal. You can see with the league campaigns that some coaches put together that they are quality also with the style of the sides and ability to execute such tactics. Why some can't see how good a coach would need to be to turn Spurs into a consistent top 4 side instead of him winning a pointless cup like a league cup is quite shocking.

Allegri didn’t have world class players at Cagliari, nor Conte at Atalanta/Bari. Zizou and Pep had their first senior jobs at Real and Barca respectively.....what do they all have in common? When they did have good players, they won trophies. Pocchettino has great players, and hasn’t.

What is it with this perpetual content with finishing in the top 4? Must be a North London thing.....

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Allegri didn’t have world class players at Cagliari, nor Conte at Atalanta/Bari. Zizou and Pep had their first senior jobs at Real and Barca respectively.....what do they all have in common? When they did have good players, they won trophies. Pocchettino has great players, and hasn’t.

What is it with this perpetual content with finishing in the top 4? Must be a North London thing.....

If you don't see the impact on not fishing in the top four, you don't quite understand the financial impact it has. As a United fan, its not really something you have to worry about and probably why you don't quite get the situation lower tier clubs are in.

 

[AP88]

This in particular doesn't make any sense. Are you suggesting the difference between Pochettino and the managers mentioned lie in parking the bus?

Absolutely. There’s no shame in neutralising the strengths of the opposition: the capacity to win ugly is what sets the winner apart from the loveable losers like Wenger and Keegan. Pocchettino needs to evolve if he’s going to avoid staying in that category.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Absolutely. There’s no shame in neutralising the strengths of the opposition: the capacity to win ugly is what sets the winner apart from the loveable losers like Wenger and Keegan. Pocchettino needs to evolve if he’s going to avoid staying in that category.

That's how we beat Madrid and Dortmund, I am afraid the main thing that sets winners apart in the long run is money, and lots of it.

 

[AP88]

If you don't see the impact on not fishing in the top four, you don't quite understand the financial impact it has. As a United fan, its not really something you have to worry about and probably why you don't quite get the situation lower tier clubs are in.

I certainly do, and the current league position suggests missing out is a real possibility next season; that’s why Pocchettino’s dodgy record in 6 pointers against rivals for the top 4 should be scrutinised accordingly.

Spurs have arguably the best first 11 in the league - but the trophy haul in the past few years with it is non-existent. I’d go as far as saying Conte and Mourinho would gladly swap their squads for Pocchettino’s.

 

[Noir]

Glaston has done a number on some of you mentally when it comes to speaking about anything Spurs related. To suggest Pochettino is doing anything less than a great job at Spurs is simply ignorant.

Glaston is like Poch, doing such a great job at everything that lets just let them continue living in their bubble. Born winners, who are yet to win anything or do anything of note, but born to win nontheless.

 

[adexkola]

Absolutely. There’s no shame in neutralising the strengths of the opposition: the capacity to win ugly is what sets the winner apart from the loveable losers like Wenger and Keegan. Pocchettino needs to evolve if he’s going to avoid staying in that category.

That is absolute nonsense.